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Caolin
Senior Scribe
769 Posts |
 Posted - 24 Jan 2012 : 20:13:40
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I've been browsing through some of the 4E source books recently. One big thing that has bothered me with 4E that doesn't seem to get talked about too much is the art style. I prefer the 2E art style which seemed to favor more realism. 3E was good too, but near the end it seemed be getting more stylized. But 4E is very stylized with blocky shapes and simple but bright color pallets. I hate to use the WoW comparison again but that's how I see it.
So I felt that I should start a thread for people to talk about the direction they would like to see the art go for 5E. I would prefer to see more art in the vein of Keith Parkinson, Daniel R. Horne and Larry Elmore.
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ZeshinX
Learned Scribe
Canada
210 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jan 2012 : 20:18:06
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| I'd like to see it closer to the 2E/3E styles myself, with perhaps some hints of Pathfinder's art style (minus the giant, Final Fantasy VII-inspired weapons). |
"...because despite the best advice of those who know what they are talking about, other people insist on doing the most massively stupid things."
-Galen, technomage |
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Caolin
Senior Scribe
769 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jan 2012 : 20:20:43
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quote:
Originally posted by ZeshinX
I'd like to see it closer to the 2E/3E styles myself, with perhaps some hints of Pathfinder's art style (minus the giant, Final Fantasy VII-inspired weapons).
Yeah, that has to be my biggest pet peeve. Let's make the weapons at least close to realistic. |
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Seravin
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1281 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jan 2012 : 20:22:41
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| Although there was some bad art in 2E too (even if the earlier stuff was Parkinson, Elmore, Caldwell, etc.)--I'm not a fan of the stylized art in the books tho. The Forgotten Realms Adventure book feels best for me. Stylized isn't my style. |
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Artemas Entreri
Great Reader
USA
3131 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jan 2012 : 20:28:17
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| LOVE the 2E art style. We need some more Easley, Parkinson, Caldwell, Brom, Ruppel (spelling?), Elmore, etc |
Some people have a way with words, and other people...oh, uh, not have way. -Steve Martin
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4436 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jan 2012 : 20:42:31
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| While my taste ranges pretty far, I'm about 50/50 split on 4E art and swing a little more to 60/40 to 75/25 in 3E art being in favor of. From 4E, I like Howard Lyon and William O'Connor. I'm also a fan of Todd Lockwood and Raymond Swanland. As long as it looks cool and not too corney (sorry, but I think a lot of 2E art falls into this category), then I'm more likely to buy it. |
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Seravin
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1281 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jan 2012 : 21:08:44
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Howard Lyon's stuff is nice Diffan! Thanks for that. I don't care for William O'Connor tho, that's not my taste.
Caldwell is probably #1 for me in Realms art, with Elmore the #1 Dragonlancer.
Parkinson is generic D&D at his finest. God I'm old school. I don't care for Jeff Easley OR Todd Lockwood's work on the Drizzt series, they should bring back Caldwell and Elmore who did such amazing covers for The Crystal Shard and Streams of Silver.
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Caolin
Senior Scribe
769 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jan 2012 : 21:10:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
While my taste ranges pretty far, I'm about 50/50 split on 4E art and swing a little more to 60/40 to 75/25 in 3E art being in favor of. From 4E, I like Howard Lyon and William O'Connor. I'm also a fan of Todd Lockwood and Raymond Swanland. As long as it looks cool and not too corney (sorry, but I think a lot of 2E art falls into this category), then I'm more likely to buy it.
I definitely enjoy Lyon, Lockwood and Swanland. O'Connor's stuff is a bit too stylized for me. I kind of feel that the DnD art went away from it's role as a tool to put you in the setting and environment. I could always count on the box art of this supplement or that to put me in the right mood for the setting. But now a days it feels like the art is used mainly as a flashing light that draws the attention of the user.
But then again, maybe it's my age and I just don't get these kids with their fancy music and complicated shoes.  |
Edited by - Caolin on 24 Jan 2012 21:11:31 |
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Kilvan
Senior Scribe
Canada
894 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jan 2012 : 21:27:21
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I prefer new novel covers over the old ones. Actually, I find most of the pre-Elminster in Hell novel covers hideous. Not sure that's the actual turning point, but around it I guess.
For sourcebooks, I don't own any from 4e, so I don't know. 3e had much more colors than 2nd, so I prefer 3e. |
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Artemas Entreri
Great Reader
USA
3131 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jan 2012 : 21:30:03
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quote:
Originally posted by Seravin
Howard Lyon's stuff is nice Diffan! Thanks for that. I don't care for William O'Connor tho, that's not my taste.
Caldwell is probably #1 for me in Realms art, with Elmore the #1 Dragonlancer.
Parkinson is generic D&D at his finest. God I'm old school. I don't care for Jeff Easley OR Todd Lockwood's work on the Drizzt series, they should bring back Caldwell and Elmore who did such amazing covers for The Crystal Shard and Streams of Silver.
Jeff Easley definitely dropped the ball when doing his Drizzt interpretation by making him look so old. |
Some people have a way with words, and other people...oh, uh, not have way. -Steve Martin
Amazon "KindleUnlimited" Free Trial: http://amzn.to/2AJ4yD2
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Artemas Entreri
Great Reader
USA
3131 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jan 2012 : 21:30:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Seravin
Howard Lyon's stuff is nice Diffan! Thanks for that. I don't care for William O'Connor tho, that's not my taste.
Caldwell is probably #1 for me in Realms art, with Elmore the #1 Dragonlancer.
Parkinson is generic D&D at his finest. God I'm old school. I don't care for Jeff Easley OR Todd Lockwood's work on the Drizzt series, they should bring back Caldwell and Elmore who did such amazing covers for The Crystal Shard and Streams of Silver.
*Streams of Silver was a Caldwell  |
Some people have a way with words, and other people...oh, uh, not have way. -Steve Martin
Amazon "KindleUnlimited" Free Trial: http://amzn.to/2AJ4yD2
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jan 2012 : 21:43:45
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Newer art looks computer-generated to me - its a bit too 'comic bookish' for my taste.
I like most of 3e's art, except for Eberron's.
Not an Eberron knock - I like the setting - I just think the art was on the cheesy side.
I think OD&D/1e art blew chunks, except for very specific examples (I am still in love with Xiombarg thanks to the 1e DD). I look at those retro-clones of the OD&D modules and all I can think is that are spot-on... which isn't a good thing, in my case. I like nostalgia, but I know when its time to draw the line (which is why I'd love to see the old material reprinted with new art - not entirely, just the really bad stuff, and the covers).
Oh, and I'll probably get stoned (on this site) for this one - but can we please have a better pic of Candlekeep? I love this place, but that 1e drawing was too minimalist. Don't replace all the art - just very specific examples (which will also show at least some thought went into the reprints). Base it on the 1e pic though - it looks like a sprawling maze of buildings (like Gormenghast), and I think thats the perfect way to picture it. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 24 Jan 2012 21:45:12 |
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Chosen of Asmodeus
Master of Realmslore
1221 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jan 2012 : 21:46:45
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| I'd stay the course. I love 4e artwork, both the more realistic pictures as well as the hyper-stylized take. |
"Then I saw there was a way to Hell even from the gates of Heaven"
- John Bunyan, Pilgrim's Progress
Fatum Iustum Stultorum. Righteous is the destiny of fools.
The Roleplayer's Gazebo;
http://theroleplayersgazebo.yuku.com/directory#.Ub4hvvlJOAY |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jan 2012 : 21:48:59
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I'm extremely fond of the 4E style for Gith races; their appearance in earlier editions was gaunt and mummified, in 4E they're exotic and menacing. I also very much like the exaggerated 4E genasi; their burning hair, icy glare, and pulsing skin patterns of elemental energy are great stuff. I don't care much for the 4E appearance of dragonborn, tieflings, and warforged; they're just too plainly archetyped in my view, I think they'd be more at home on cartoons than in the Realms. The elves and eladrin look interchangeable to my eyes. Don't even get me started on those 4E dwarven females who unfortunately lack even slightest hint of proper beards.
Just trying to say that the artwork is really a matter of personal preference, and it's not required to accept/reject it as a "whole package" when one can select preferences from multiple editions. The 4E artwork does maintain a consistently high technical standard which was sorely lacking in the illustrations from earlier products. |
[/Ayrik] |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11808 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jan 2012 : 21:50:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Caolin
I've been browsing through some of the 4E source books recently. One big thing that has bothered me with 4E that doesn't seem to get talked about too much is the art style. I prefer the 2E art style which seemed to favor more realism. 3E was good too, but near the end it seemed be getting more stylized. But 4E is very stylized with blocky shapes and simple but bright color pallets. I hate to use the WoW comparison again but that's how I see it.
So I felt that I should start a thread for people to talk about the direction they would like to see the art go for 5E. I would prefer to see more art in the vein of Keith Parkinson, Daniel R. Horne and Larry Elmore.
Yes, I so loved Elmore's and Parkinson's art |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Seravin
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1281 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jan 2012 : 22:16:40
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quote:
Originally posted by entreri3478
quote:
Originally posted by Seravin
Howard Lyon's stuff is nice Diffan! Thanks for that. I don't care for William O'Connor tho, that's not my taste.
Caldwell is probably #1 for me in Realms art, with Elmore the #1 Dragonlancer.
Parkinson is generic D&D at his finest. God I'm old school. I don't care for Jeff Easley OR Todd Lockwood's work on the Drizzt series, they should bring back Caldwell and Elmore who did such amazing covers for The Crystal Shard and Streams of Silver.
*Streams of Silver was a Caldwell
And The Crystal Shard was an Elmore. That's what I said. Although, not very well.
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Artemas Entreri
Great Reader
USA
3131 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jan 2012 : 22:18:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Seravin
quote:
Originally posted by entreri3478
quote:
Originally posted by Seravin
Howard Lyon's stuff is nice Diffan! Thanks for that. I don't care for William O'Connor tho, that's not my taste.
Caldwell is probably #1 for me in Realms art, with Elmore the #1 Dragonlancer.
Parkinson is generic D&D at his finest. God I'm old school. I don't care for Jeff Easley OR Todd Lockwood's work on the Drizzt series, they should bring back Caldwell and Elmore who did such amazing covers for The Crystal Shard and Streams of Silver.
*Streams of Silver was a Caldwell
And The Crystal Shard was an Elmore. That's what I said. Although, not very well.
Lol, my bad.  That reminds me though, i never cared for the way Elmore had a brown Drizzt on the cover of the Crystal Shard. |
Some people have a way with words, and other people...oh, uh, not have way. -Steve Martin
Amazon "KindleUnlimited" Free Trial: http://amzn.to/2AJ4yD2
Try Audible and Get 2 Free Audio Books! https://amzn.to/2IgBede |
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Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jan 2012 : 23:47:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
<snip>
I think OD&D/1e art blew chunks, except for very specific examples (I am still in love with Xiombarg thanks to the 1e DD). I look at those retro-clones of the OD&D modules and all I can think is that are spot-on... which isn't a good thing, in my case. I like nostalgia, but I know when its time to draw the line (which is why I'd love to see the old material reprinted with new art - not entirely, just the really bad stuff, and the covers).<snip>
I happen to agree with you here... for the most part, the good OD&D/1e art is on the book covers, and I'm talking specifically Elmore (later red Basic box and its successors) and Easley (orange-spine AD&D 1e book covers, particularly the redone MMI and the Manual of the Planes) here... although a lot of the monster images in the MMII, particularly the Tarrasque, have remained stuck in my head as standouts. The best 1e/2e b&w art by far has been the work that was done for the 2e Monstrous Compendium. The good 2e colour art is dominated by Elmore and Easley again (Elmore on Dragon magazine covers, Easley on core book covers), and Caldwell is excellent, particularly his work for the Realms, but I liked just about everything in 3.x art-wise.
For 5e I'd like to see a return to 2e/early 3e styles; I'm entirely in agreement with Caolin on the work of Parkinson and Elmore in particular. If I could buy a portfolio of poster-size prints of every Elmore Dragon magazine cover for a price I could afford, I'd do it... especially if the price included computer desktop images of all of them. |
Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
Edited by - Jakk on 25 Jan 2012 01:28:37 |
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Therise
Master of Realmslore
1272 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jan 2012 : 00:05:11
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I prefer the realism of the 1E-2E Realms art. Markus is right, some of it wasn't great. But for the most part, I hugely prefer the realism of the old gray box cover horseman, the 2E "Adventures" cover of the woman on horseback, those kinds of things. Even though the 1E-2E Dragon magazine art was sometimes hit or miss, IMO that era had some of the best realistic-looking covers of Dragon's entire run.
I don't like the later 3E and 4E artwork at all. It's too comic bookish, too influenced by manga and similar.
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Female, 40-year DM of a homebrew-evolved 1E Realms, including a few added tidbits of 2E and 3E lore; played originally in AD&D, then in Rolemaster. Be a DM for your kids and grandkids, gaming is excellent for families! |
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jan 2012 : 00:14:55
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There's a pooling of influences in a lot of the younger artists, which can be productive but also results in a certain uniformity rather than the dynamism they're going for. I see a lot of unremarked Games Workshop influence, for instance, sometimes via Wayne Reynolds's work for Wizards, or World of Warcraft; there's a particular kind of now very common sharp-overlapping-plates armour that comes directly from John Blanche and Citadel Miniatures chaos warriors.
I'm not that familiar with the latest art, but to my eye the Realms has never been that well served: aside from Valusek's and Dameron's figures there are surprisingly few illustrations I can point to and say yes, that's Faerūn. I'd love to see more from the Howard Pyle/N.C. Wyeth tradition. |
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Therise
Master of Realmslore
1272 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jan 2012 : 00:27:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Faraer
There's a pooling of influences in a lot of the younger artists, which can be productive but also results in a certain uniformity rather than the dynamism they're going for. I see a lot of unremarked Games Workshop influence, for instance, sometimes via Wayne Reynolds's work for Wizards, or World of Warcraft; there's a particular kind of now very common sharp-overlapping-plates armour that comes directly from John Blanche and Citadel Miniatures chaos warriors.
I'm not that familiar with the latest art, but to my eye the Realms has never been that well served: aside from Valusek's and Dameron's figures there are surprisingly few illustrations I can point to and say yes, that's Faerūn. I'd love to see more from the Howard Pyle/N.C. Wyeth tradition.
I know what you mean with Pyle and Wyeth. To me, there's a certain flavor, a living world-time, that go with their illustrations. I used to actually really like some of the older World of Warcraft art, before everything turned into huge-gantic weapons and oversized shoulder-plates and the like; Wayne Reynolds similarly isn't to my taste at all. It has "pop" but it lacks elegance and a romantic Renaissance feel, which I feel is really essential. Something about the early art of the Realms really felt Renaissance, and I miss it.
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Female, 40-year DM of a homebrew-evolved 1E Realms, including a few added tidbits of 2E and 3E lore; played originally in AD&D, then in Rolemaster. Be a DM for your kids and grandkids, gaming is excellent for families! |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36797 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jan 2012 : 00:57:50
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| I've many times posted of my love of the artwork from the 1E and 2E era, particularly that of Easley, Elmore, and Caldwell. I've even got some Elmore prints. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31726 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jan 2012 : 01:16:39
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I know it will likely never happen, but I would so love a return to the funky styled-imagery of Erol Otus. I loved his early D&D art -- with the cover of DRAGON #55 being a particular favourite.
Into the late 80's/early 90's, Elmore and Easley were the D&D/Realms/DRAGONLANCE artists who brought the visual component to my gaming experience.
The only real 3e/4e art I've liked is that by Wayne Reynolds. His sharp imagery really brings a dynamical presence to the visualisation of the game. I'm hopeful that he will likely contract work for 5e D&D as well. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Edited by - The Sage on 25 Jan 2012 01:18:41 |
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Therise
Master of Realmslore
1272 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jan 2012 : 01:20:43
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You know, I loved Erol Otus also. It was funky-cool and definitely odd at times. He even had some nice pieces that were Cthulhu-esque, and they were great.
Elmore and Easley were also terrific, and it was a real treat when Dragon would have an Elmore cover. 
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Female, 40-year DM of a homebrew-evolved 1E Realms, including a few added tidbits of 2E and 3E lore; played originally in AD&D, then in Rolemaster. Be a DM for your kids and grandkids, gaming is excellent for families! |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31726 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jan 2012 : 01:24:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Therise
... Wayne Reynolds similarly isn't to my taste at all. It has "pop" but it lacks elegance and a romantic Renaissance feel, which I feel is really essential.
That's understandable.
I tend to think the art of Reynolds also lacks the romanticism of the more traditional D&D imagery. But, at the same time, I'm okay with that in most instances of his work.
There's a few pieces he's done for DRAGON in the early 00's, that brings the noir-stylish concept of romantic daring-do to his work... particularly his rendition of the classic rogue [from one of the covers of DRAGON {the issue number escapes me at the moment}]. And the stuff that he's done for MAGIC: THE GATHERING, too, has an understated sense of the Renaissance feel. It's not well-defined, because I tend to find his art a little too sharp for that classic style, but it is conveyed in the action of the piece. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Caolin
Senior Scribe
769 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jan 2012 : 02:47:53
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Therise
... Wayne Reynolds similarly isn't to my taste at all. It has "pop" but it lacks elegance and a romantic Renaissance feel, which I feel is really essential.
That's understandable.
I tend to think the art of Reynolds also lacks the romanticism of the more traditional D&D imagery. But, at the same time, I'm okay with that in most instances of his work.
There's a few pieces he's done for DRAGON in the early 00's, that brings the noir-stylish concept of romantic daring-do to his work... particularly his rendition of the classic rogue [from one of the covers of DRAGON {the issue number escapes me at the moment}]. And the stuff that he's done for MAGIC: THE GATHERING, too, has an understated sense of the Renaissance feel. It's not well-defined, because I tend to find his art a little too sharp for that classic style, but it is conveyed in the action of the piece.
I think it's missing that romanticism because it's focus is more testosterone driven and aggressive. When I see some of the newer art I always have the feeling they are targeting 15yo boys. They most likely are in fact doing this on purpose. It's sad because what attracted me to the art from 1e and 2e is that it had an adult nature to it. More than anything as a teenager I couldn't wait to become an adult. DnD allowed me to live the fantasy of being a sword swinging adult who killed orcs and saved hot princesses. I didn't want to imagine my characters as teenagers.
So maybe it's time for WoTC to start focusing on the adult nature of the game and give us back our Elmore, Easley, and Caldwell. |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3286 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jan 2012 : 03:09:10
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Just let Mike Schley keep making those killer maps. |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jan 2012 : 03:39:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Brimstone
Just let Mike Schley keep making those killer maps.
Absolutely! And I wouldn't object at all to seeing him turned loose on parts of Toril we haven't seen yet. |
Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
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Kiaransalyn
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
762 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jan 2012 : 14:58:37
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quote:
Originally posted by entreri3478
LOVE the 2E art style. We need some more Easley, Parkinson, Caldwell, Brom, Ruppel (spelling?), Elmore, etc
Seconded. |
Death is Life
Love is Hate
Revenge is Forgiveness
Ken: You from the States?
Jimmy: Yeah. But don't hold it against me.
Ken: I'll try not to... Just try not to say anything too loud or crass. |
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Old Man Harpell
Senior Scribe
USA
495 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jan 2012 : 15:23:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Kiaransalyn
quote:
Originally posted by entreri3478
LOVE the 2E art style. We need some more Easley, Parkinson, Caldwell, Brom, Ruppel (spelling?), Elmore, etc
Seconded.
Thirded.
But alas, no new Parkinson art. He passed on about seven years ago - it's what spurred me to buy much of the Parkinson art I have before it became unavailable altogether. |
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Seravin
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1281 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jan 2012 : 16:04:56
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OMH- have you bought originals? I'm looking at acquiring some pieces this year. Would love to hear from someone who is collecting.
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Topic |
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The art style of 5E
