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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
 Posted - 24 Jan 2012 : 16:28:50
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As for the problem with the timejump, and the paradoxical problem of how we are supposedly receiving our Realms info - through Ed and Elminster - I brought that up soon after 4eFR was released.
On the WotC boards, I basically said "Hasbro killed Ed!!!" 
Needless to say, my posts were erased and I got reprimanded (but not banned.... that time).
But they did, unless Ed (the D&D version of him) somehow finds a way to still be around a century from now. Maybe he can find a magic sword and suck some soul-stuff out of a Shade (it worked for Entreri). 
Otherwise, one must ask the question, "Where is 4e lore coming from? How are we, here on Earth, getting it still?"
Or maybe the question should be, how are we, in 2012AD, getting information from the future? Guess they didn't think of that one when they were 'brainstorming' 4eFR. They took the most basic premise of all - The Forgotten Realms - and threw it right out the window.
EDIT: Heh... I should have posted that in Erik's thread - I may have stumped him. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 24 Jan 2012 18:16:13 |
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Varl
Learned Scribe
USA
284 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jan 2012 : 17:45:48
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| I think this scroll is derogatory. So what. It means people care passionately about the subject, and have their individual games tied to it in some fashion, one way or the other. What would really be bad is if people stopped talking/posting about the Realms or some feature therein because they were afraid of being censored or exiled by their forum peers. That's more derogatory than any commentary on a game feature. |
I'm on a permanent vacation to the soul. -Tash Sultana |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4438 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jan 2012 : 18:18:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Kiaransalyn
I can only hope to aspire to your own high standards.
You'll get there one day, I'm sure of it. 
quote:
Originally posted by Varl
I think this scroll is derogatory. So what. It means people care passionately about the subject, and have their individual games tied to it in some fashion, one way or the other. What would really be bad is if people stopped talking/posting about the Realms or some feature therein because they were afraid of being censored or exiled by their forum peers. That's more derogatory than any commentary on a game feature.
Why can't people get their point across without resorting to that sort of terminology? |
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Aes Tryl
Learned Scribe
181 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jan 2012 : 12:32:02
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@Diffan
I feel that it is the intent of the phrase. Smellplague and Justice league can both be used in ostentatiously offensive ways, yet phrases such as the "shattered realms" imho actually sounds really cool (gives the sort of vibe that the 4e realms brings across with the Points of Lights system and all) (credit to MT and of course Wooly!).
People getting all hissy over it,honestly, amuses me. And also people who are hyper-sensitive to such comments may also have the character deficiencies you are subscribing to those "immature" ones who are making the comments.
Unless the poster/scribe is being overtly offensive, aggressive and an all round D-bag or tool, does usage of these terms, for better or for worse, instantly relegate all the people who use it as inferior to you? Going by this phrase you used "But I take heart in knowing that I'm better (in pretty much every faucet of character) than people who fall to such immature tactic". |
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Old Man Harpell
Senior Scribe
USA
495 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jan 2012 : 14:22:45
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quote:
Originally posted by Aes Tryl
@Diffan
I feel that it is the intent of the phrase. Smellplague and Justice league can both be used in ostentatiously offensive ways, yet phrases such as the "shattered realms" imho actually sounds really cool (gives the sort of vibe that the 4e realms brings across with the Points of Lights system and all) (credit to MT and of course Wooly!).
People getting all hissy over it,honestly, amuses me. And also people who are hyper-sensitive to such comments may also have the character deficiencies you are subscribing to those "immature" ones who are making the comments.
Unless the poster/scribe is being overtly offensive, aggressive and an all round D-bag or tool, does usage of these terms, for better or for worse, instantly relegate all the people who use it as inferior to you? Going by this phrase you used "But I take heart in knowing that I'm better (in pretty much every faucet of character) than people who fall to such immature tactic".
I could not have been the one to post these things (as I am likely the catalyst for this scroll), but this essentially says what I would have said.
I do not view 'Shattered Realms' as derogatory - the Realms were picked up and sent hurting back to smash into pieces by the geniuses at Wizbro. This suggests shattering to me. It is a descriptor, nothing more, and it clearly states what I am talking about. It also differentiates what is to what was. I make no apologies, and I will continue to use it.
I will grant that the use of the other term I use, 'Sellplague', is not exactly complimentary. When I first saw it being used here, I agreed with (and still agree with) the way it (the term) was employed - to describe casting aside the folks who had loyally stuck with the Realms through thick and thin, even with events like the ToT, for the deep and uncharted seas of 'new fans' in search of the Fountain Of Profits.
Sony Online Entertainment tried this strategy in their Star Wars Galaxies MMO with their 'NGE', or 'New Game Enhancement' (expressed by the Betrayed - those cast aside - as 'Noobs Get Everything'). The 4th Edition Realms pales next to this colossal outrage, which made the New York Times, it was such a huge screw-up and ethical sink. The game hemorrhaged subscribers continually, until LucasArts told SOE to pull the plug (this last December, 'coincidentally' the same time that Star Wars: The Old Republic made its debut).
The comparison is remarkable, and it is where 'Sellplague', to me, fits. Granted, at this point, it is almost automatic for having used it so much, but the idea, I am sure, was to belittle the search for 'new fans', and not to belittle the Realms themselves (the latter idea is patently absurd). I maintain that the critique is fair, though I will try and limit my use of the term.
As annoyed as I am with Wizbro, I do not want to see them go under (and thus remove any chance of starting to again make awesome new Realmslore). I just want them to listen to us. All of us. And I am despairing of the very real possibility that they won't.
-OMH |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4438 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jan 2012 : 14:39:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Aes Tryl
@Diffan
I feel that it is the intent of the phrase. Smellplague and Justice league can both be used in ostentatiously offensive ways, yet phrases such as the "shattered realms" imho actually sounds really cool (gives the sort of vibe that the 4e realms brings across with the Points of Lights system and all) (credit to MT and of course Wooly!).
Yet the phrase really isn't intended to make the post-Spellplague Realms cool or used as a positive. It was used by disgruntled fans upset over the changes to distinguish the difference of two Eras of play in the Realms, one that's 'true' while the other that's 'different/fractured/distanced' from the 'true' Realms. It was (still is?) used to show the how the fan-base shattered along with it. And I don't recall pro-4E FR people ever referring to the term, possibly because we (they) don't feel it's Shattered at all. When I refer to post-Spellplague Realms, I often just put in 1479 DR or Spellplague, or 4E FR. I was thinking of putting in some Real World analogies here, but I think ventures into the "do-not-cross" lines.
quote:
Originally posted by Aes Tryl
People getting all hissy over it,honestly, amuses me. And also people who are hyper-sensitive to such comments may also have the character deficiencies you are subscribing to those "immature" ones who are making the comments.
Unless the poster/scribe is being overtly offensive, aggressive and an all round D-bag or tool, does usage of these terms, for better or for worse, instantly relegate all the people who use it as inferior to you? Going by this phrase you used "But I take heart in knowing that I'm better (in pretty much every faucet of character) than people who fall to such immature tactic".
It's funny you mention people being hissy, because that was my reaction to people being mad about the Spellplague. What might not cause one person to blink twice, might make another person rant for 3 years over the issue. And had you asked me this question in 2008, I'd have said "Yes" for sure. Now, I'm pretty much over it. I have a lot of respect for say....Old Man Harpell, yet he uses the term in such a way that it's how he referenes that time peroid. I don't think he's inferior to me in any way. I just roll my eyes at the use of "Shattered Realms" and move on. And when I see other such slurs I rarely (if ever) go out of my way to make it a point to comment about or report it. It's just not worth my time or effort that, in the end, won't change their opinion or mine. |
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Kiaransalyn
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
762 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jan 2012 : 14:54:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
quote:
Originally posted by Kiaransalyn
I can only hope to aspire to your own high standards.
You'll get there one day, I'm sure of it.
Thanks for the encouragement. I'm currently saving up for a combined wit and humour bypass operation. I'll also make sure I'll regularly ingest a potion of political correctness. Then I'm sure I'll be able to type phrases like 'Spellplague' and 4th Edition' without feeling remotely emotional or caring about them.
I do think that the terms you describe as derogatory aren't really that bad. The boards are here for discussion, and discussion means inviting opinion. Some choose to express their opinion by using said terms. If we regulate how people express their opinions then we begin to regulate their actual opinions too.
Now, some of us may simply be cast in the consumer mould of 'Tell us what to buy WotC and we'll buy everything you tell us too'. But I doubt that actually describes many of us.
I freely admit to using '$E' when the rumours of the god-awful f***-up...ahem, I'm sorry, let me try again...when the wonderfully received and warmly welcomed quaternary edition changes were announced. I felt the edition change was a blatant cash-in. The success of Pathfinder says that many were happy with 3rd Edn and its variants.
What is interesting is that it's been about two years since I last enjoyed reading the Candlekeep forums and, I have to say, nothing has actually changed. $E is still creating a lot of debate. It really has caused a split.
I recall a few years ago that some discussion was on how the change to 3rd from 2nd was received. And, of course, there were some who didn't like the new changes - there always are. But I think it's fair to say that the debate due to an edition change didn't fester as long as this one, or cause as much division. |
Death is Life
Love is Hate
Revenge is Forgiveness
Ken: You from the States?
Jimmy: Yeah. But don't hold it against me.
Ken: I'll try not to... Just try not to say anything too loud or crass. |
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Aes Tryl
Learned Scribe
181 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jan 2012 : 14:57:02
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@ Diffan
Thank you for the civilised response. To be very very honest, I am absolutely not a fan of 4e Realmslore, though the certain 4e novels by Ed, Erik and Richard Lee have been fascinating exercises in utter enjoyment ( I personally eagerly await for a certain Mr Kemp to enter the fray once more). I was not fond of how, in my own opinion, WotC picked up Toril and then proceeded to smash it against the wall several times.
To clarify why I feel that the Shattered moniker fits, it is not because of any of the things you mentioned. It is more because the Faerun that exists is 1479 is similar to a world which has survived a nuclear holocaust. Cities are blinkered out of existence (I'm looking at you Halruaa!) with nary an explanation, whole parts of the continent are either replaced or subsumed. Abeir literally came crashing into Toril like a God-Meteor. Prominent characters and the unique politics which encompassed many realms are wiped out (especially inter-city/country politics) in an instant. In a word, it's a Cataclysm, of Realms shattering proportion. It has become, as the FRCS or some other sourcebook said, a savage, wild world. And all of these changes happen at once, literally redrawing the map of Faerun. How are the realms not shattered? and trying to pick up the pieces of a many cataclysms occuring almost all at once?
P.S if WotC were to put out a box of free money, I'd grab as many boxes as I could and I would tell the complainers to STFU and give me their box if they didn't want it ;P. |
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Therise
Master of Realmslore
1272 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jan 2012 : 14:59:15
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4E Realms is just a virgin who can't drive.
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Female, 40-year DM of a homebrew-evolved 1E Realms, including a few added tidbits of 2E and 3E lore; played originally in AD&D, then in Rolemaster. Be a DM for your kids and grandkids, gaming is excellent for families! |
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Kiaransalyn
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
762 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jan 2012 : 15:01:43
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quote:
Originally posted by Aes Tryl
P.S if WotC were to put out a box of free money, I'd grab as many boxes as I could and I would tell the complainers to STFU and give me their box if they didn't want it ;P.
I'm confident the government and Hasbro would complain. |
Death is Life
Love is Hate
Revenge is Forgiveness
Ken: You from the States?
Jimmy: Yeah. But don't hold it against me.
Ken: I'll try not to... Just try not to say anything too loud or crass. |
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Old Man Harpell
Senior Scribe
USA
495 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jan 2012 : 15:15:54
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quote:
Originally posted by Kiaransalyn
Thanks for the encouragement. I'm currently saving up for a combined wit and humour bypass operation. I'll also make sure I'll regularly ingest a potion of political correctness. Then I'm sure I'll be able to type phrases like 'Spellplague' and 4th Edition' without feeling remotely emotional or caring about them.
Argh...evil woman. You owe me a new keyboard, or at the very least some paper towels and a new tin of coffee. Owie... |
Edited by - Old Man Harpell on 25 Jan 2012 15:17:07 |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4438 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jan 2012 : 15:44:39
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quote:
Originally posted by Kiaransalyn
quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
quote:
Originally posted by Kiaransalyn
I can only hope to aspire to your own high standards.
You'll get there one day, I'm sure of it.
Thanks for the encouragement. I'm currently saving up for a combined wit and humour bypass operation. I'll also make sure I'll regularly ingest a potion of political correctness. Then I'm sure I'll be able to type phrases like 'Spellplague' and 4th Edition' without feeling remotely emotional or caring about them.
See, there ya go! And here I thought they were years away from those sorts of procedures.
quote:
Originally posted by Kiaransalyn
I do think that the terms you describe as derogatory aren't really that bad. The boards are here for discussion, and discussion means inviting opinion. Some choose to express their opinion by using said terms. If we regulate how people express their opinions then we begin to regulate their actual opinions too.
Again, I'm going to refrain from using Real World examples of pejoratives, espically ones that might be offensive to certain people, but I feel that the case is similiar (in the negative usage of them, not in the damage caused by them). And there's a big difference between expressing your opinion with the hopes of changing others by using non-offensive language AND just ranting off prejoratives that showcase that opinion.
I find it no different than when a person shows a dislike of someone and comes up with a witty way to change their name into something hurtful. Either way, it doesn't do anything positive. And this isn't to say they should be banned or those terms banned, but I just don't see the reason for it other than to put someone/something down.
quote:
Originally posted by Kiaransalyn
Now, some of us may simply be cast in the consumer mould of 'Tell us what to buy WotC and we'll buy everything you tell us too'. But I doubt that actually describes many of us.
huh? I honestly have no idea what this means with the discussion at hand?
quote:
Originally posted by Kiaransalyn
I freely admit to using '$E' when the rumours of the god-awful f***-up...ahem, I'm sorry, let me try again...when the wonderfully received and warmly welcomed quaternary edition changes were announced. I felt the edition change was a blatant cash-in. The success of Pathfinder says that many were happy with 3rd Edn and its variants.
What is interesting is that it's been about two years since I last enjoyed reading the Candlekeep forums and, I have to say, nothing has actually changed. $E is still creating a lot of debate. It really has caused a split.
I recall a few years ago that some discussion was on how the change to 3rd from 2nd was received. And, of course, there were some who didn't like the new changes - there always are. But I think it's fair to say that the debate due to an edition change didn't fester as long as this one, or cause as much division.
I think it was more the changes to FR than the edition itself that caused things to still remain as bad as they are (which is to say that it's relatively peaceful when looking back at those times). I also think it's the fact that D&D has never had this level of competition before during an edition change. Back then, you either went with D&D or went to a completly new system. Now, there are more choices. And where you consider the changes a F*** up, I consider them "fresh starts".
quote:
Originally posted by Aes Tryl
@ Diffan
Thank you for the civilised response. To be very very honest, I am absolutely not a fan of 4e Realmslore, though the certain 4e novels by Ed, Erik and Richard Lee have been fascinating exercises in utter enjoyment ( I personally eagerly await for a certain Mr Kemp to enter the fray once more). I was not fond of how, in my own opinion, WotC picked up Toril and then proceeded to smash it against the wall several times.
Fair enough. I've been happy with both pre- and post-Spellplague Realms for alternating reasons. For one, I don't subscribe to Canon-Must-Be-Mantained mantra. I take what I like from various areas in the Realms and make it my own. And I'm not a fan of ALL the changes they made either. Mystra really didn't need to die, though I thought her power over the Weave was a bit excessive and needed to be reigned in a little. Elistraee is alive and well in my post-Spellplague Realms. Lantan is a submersed city akin to Atlantis. Aglarond is a country with thousands of Warforged. Nimbral is an Island that's constantly in shift, locked in (what seesms like eternal) battle with the denizens of the Far Realm. Evermeet is still there, albiet with areas that phase with the Feywild. I also don't approve of the Time-jump, or would've been happier with a 10-25 year jump, at most.
quote:
Originally posted by Aes Tryl
To clarify why I feel that the Shattered moniker fits, it is not because of any of the things you mentioned. It is more because the Faerun that exists is 1479 is similar to a world which has survived a nuclear holocaust. Cities are blinkered out of existence (I'm looking at you Halruaa!) with nary an explanation, whole parts of the continent are either replaced or subsumed. Abeir literally came crashing into Toril like a God-Meteor. Prominent characters and the unique politics which encompassed many realms are wiped out (especially inter-city/country politics) in an instant. In a word, it's a Cataclysm, of Realms shattering proportion. It has become, as the FRCS or some other sourcebook said, a savage, wild world. And all of these changes happen at once, literally redrawing the map of Faerun. How are the realms not shattered? and trying to pick up the pieces of a many cataclysms occuring almost all at once?
And that's fine, I've come to just ignore the phrase and move on. A few years earlier, it was a different story. And I feel if WotC had "owned the title" as was suggested, it wouldn't feel like a sting every time it's mentioned. And really, it's all in the use of said term.
quote:
Originally posted by Aes Tryl
P.S if WotC were to put out a box of free money, I'd grab as many boxes as I could and I would tell the complainers to STFU and give me their box if they didn't want it ;P.
Heh, yea I can't say I wouldn't do the same thing. I forget where I heard the comment but it was pretty funny at the time. Something along the lines of people hating WotC in situations where they were damned if they do, damned if they don't situations. Anyways, I thought it was funny and a bit true too. |
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Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jan 2012 : 20:24:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Aes Tryl
@ Diffan
Thank you for the civilised response. To be very very honest, I am absolutely not a fan of 4e Realmslore, though the certain 4e novels by Ed, Erik and Richard Lee have been fascinating exercises in utter enjoyment ( I personally eagerly await for a certain Mr Kemp to enter the fray once more). I was not fond of how, in my own opinion, WotC picked up Toril and then proceeded to smash it against the wall several times.
To clarify why I feel that the Shattered moniker fits, it is not because of any of the things you mentioned. It is more because the Faerun that exists is 1479 is similar to a world which has survived a nuclear holocaust. Cities are blinkered out of existence (I'm looking at you Halruaa!) with nary an explanation, whole parts of the continent are either replaced or subsumed. Abeir literally came crashing into Toril like a God-Meteor. Prominent characters and the unique politics which encompassed many realms are wiped out (especially inter-city/country politics) in an instant. In a word, it's a Cataclysm, of Realms shattering proportion. It has become, as the FRCS or some other sourcebook said, a savage, wild world. And all of these changes happen at once, literally redrawing the map of Faerun. How are the realms not shattered? and trying to pick up the pieces of a many cataclysms occuring almost all at once?
P.S if WotC were to put out a box of free money, I'd grab as many boxes as I could and I would tell the complainers to STFU and give me their box if they didn't want it ;P.
I have to agree on all counts. Particularly the free money... just give me enough to buy the Realms, and we're all good. 
If I wanted a post-cataclysmic world, I'd play Dragonlance / Krynn. If I wanted a world with prominent NPCs being killed off left and right, I'd play 2E Greyhawk (actually, Greyhawk never did anything like this to the extent that it was done in the Realms, but I still use the 1E Circle of Eight on the rare occasion that I refer to Greyhawk). If I wanted any of the other things that the 4E Realms gave me, I'd play Eberron. All I want is for the Realms to be their own world again, because as it stands with the Spellplague, we have a mash-up of the Realms (Cormyr, Tethyr, Waterdeep), Eberron, and Fourth Age Krynn, with a whole lot of dead iconic characters strewn about... I had continued that thought, but it got a bit strong. Anyway, I'm just saying that the Realms, outside of Cormyr and what we've seen of Waterdeep, feels like "everywhere else" now... and I thought WotC dropped DL and GH for lack of fan support, so why on *this* world would they want the Realms to resemble those worlds? Maybe that's exactly why we're looking at 5th edition already; maybe the Spellplague didn't turn out so well in terms of game product sales. It would be nice to know, one way or the other...  |
Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
Edited by - Jakk on 25 Jan 2012 20:26:11 |
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Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jan 2012 : 20:43:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
<chop>
It's funny you mention people being hissy, because that was my reaction to people being mad about the Spellplague. What might not cause one person to blink twice, might make another person rant for 3 years over the issue.
<snip>
 Guilty as charged. I'm trying very hard to be over that and looking ahead, now that we've had the new edition announced, but that will be much easier to do once we have some idea of what WotC will be doing for the 5e Realms apart from (as it seems they will do) opening up the past timeline for new material. Anyway, I've spent much of the past year feeling like Spidey dealing with Venom, trying to keep the evil "plaguetroll" symbiote away from me; I hope I've had some success in that department. I'm trying to refrain from speculation until we see that new book at the end of this year, but others keep pulling me back into the discussion with more interesting ideas... and I suppose that's all a good thing for the Realms, right? |
Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
Edited by - Jakk on 25 Jan 2012 20:45:57 |
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Varl
Learned Scribe
USA
284 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jan 2012 : 20:51:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
Why can't people get their point across without resorting to that sort of terminology?
I don't know. Perhaps they feel like being flippant at the time or had a bad day and use edition bashing as some form of weird catharsis. Heh. Who knows. I think everyone online has been drawn into at least one flamewar over something, and usually it's something you'd never get into an argument over in person with someone, because it's a lot easier to articulate your meanings to someone in front of you and get your point across than it is with text. |
I'm on a permanent vacation to the soul. -Tash Sultana |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4438 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jan 2012 : 21:00:01
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quote:
Originally posted by Jakk
Guilty as charged. I'm trying very hard to be over that and looking ahead, now that we've had the new edition announced, but that will be much easier to do once we have some idea of what WotC will be doing for the 5e Realms apart from (as it seems they will do) opening up the past timeline for new material. Anyway, I've spent much of the past year feeling like Spidey dealing with Venom, trying to keep the evil "plaguetroll" symbiote away from me; I hope I've had some success in that department. I'm trying to refrain from speculation until we see that new book at the end of this year, but others keep pulling me back into the discussion with more interesting ideas... and I suppose that's all a good thing for the Realms, right?
I'm all for speculations, as it makes the time and imaginations fly until we see what the end result is. And it has been pretty civil (for the most part) up until about two weeks ago. But even with the news of D&Dnext, it's not a hot-bed of negativity and angst. So that's something. And Jakk, you've been a pretty strong voice for compromise and light-hearted attitudes around here, so thanks for that.
quote:
Originally posted by Varl
I don't know. Perhaps they feel like being flippant at the time or had a bad day and use edition bashing as some form of weird catharsis. Heh. Who knows. I think everyone online has been drawn into at least one flamewar over something, and usually it's something you'd never get into an argument over in person with someone, because it's a lot easier to articulate your meanings to someone in front of you and get your point across than it is with text.
I know I've been drawn into such arguments and tempers flare. Perhaps I'm talking about the more casual way in which such terminology is tossed around. At least with an argument, it's context is a little more appropriate. But I doubt anything will be done about it nor will there be any Bans against such terminology. As they say on other Forums "Just flag it, and move along." |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jan 2012 : 21:39:52
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ANYTHING can be used in derogatory fashion - its all about intent. When I was 13, one boy on my bus told another "get away from me, boy". The kid went ballistic, and I couldn't understand why (and neither could the bus driver... supposedly). I couldn't believe such a simple word elicited such a violent reaction. I went home and asked my father, and he had to explain to me exactly what was going on there (the second child was black). I had no idea - to me it was just a word.
Its not what you say, but how you say it. 'Shattered Realms' to me is a description, and a pretty kewl one at that (if anything, it makes me want to learn more). Sellplague is definitely derogatory, unless used by the people who thought of it. Isn't it funny how certain groups can use certain words, and yet those same people are the first to scream the loudest when someone else uses them? Thats why I say 'intent' is everything.
Just be respectful.
quote:
Originally posted by Kiaransalyn
quote:
Originally posted by Aes Tryl
P.S if WotC were to put out a box of free money, I'd grab as many boxes as I could and I would tell the complainers to STFU and give me their box if they didn't want it ;P.
I'm confident the government and Hasbro would complain.
Not if the Gov't got their taxes... they ALWAYS get their taxes.
@Therise - I don't get your sense of humor sometimes. 
That virgin thing was just weird (and saddened me, because I really liked Brittany Murphy, and forgot she was in that). She would have made a great Alusair, or Alias. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Therise
Master of Realmslore
1272 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jan 2012 : 21:45:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
@Therise - I don't get your sense of humor sometimes.
That virgin thing was just weird (and saddened me, because I really liked Brittany Murphy, and forgot she was in that). She would have made a great Alusair, or Alias.
I suspect that very few people get my humor. It's dry and often acerbic, with a dash of irreverence and teasing. 
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Female, 40-year DM of a homebrew-evolved 1E Realms, including a few added tidbits of 2E and 3E lore; played originally in AD&D, then in Rolemaster. Be a DM for your kids and grandkids, gaming is excellent for families! |
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Old Man Harpell
Senior Scribe
USA
495 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jan 2012 : 22:28:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Jakk
quote:
Originally posted by Aes Tryl
@ Diffan
Thank you for the civilised response. To be very very honest, I am absolutely not a fan of 4e Realmslore, though the certain 4e novels by Ed, Erik and Richard Lee have been fascinating exercises in utter enjoyment ( I personally eagerly await for a certain Mr Kemp to enter the fray once more). I was not fond of how, in my own opinion, WotC picked up Toril and then proceeded to smash it against the wall several times.
To clarify why I feel that the Shattered moniker fits, it is not because of any of the things you mentioned. It is more because the Faerun that exists is 1479 is similar to a world which has survived a nuclear holocaust. Cities are blinkered out of existence (I'm looking at you Halruaa!) with nary an explanation, whole parts of the continent are either replaced or subsumed. Abeir literally came crashing into Toril like a God-Meteor. Prominent characters and the unique politics which encompassed many realms are wiped out (especially inter-city/country politics) in an instant. In a word, it's a Cataclysm, of Realms shattering proportion. It has become, as the FRCS or some other sourcebook said, a savage, wild world. And all of these changes happen at once, literally redrawing the map of Faerun. How are the realms not shattered? and trying to pick up the pieces of a many cataclysms occuring almost all at once?
P.S if WotC were to put out a box of free money, I'd grab as many boxes as I could and I would tell the complainers to STFU and give me their box if they didn't want it ;P.
I have to agree on all counts. Particularly the free money... just give me enough to buy the Realms, and we're all good.
If I wanted a post-cataclysmic world, I'd play Dragonlance / Krynn. If I wanted a world with prominent NPCs being killed off left and right, I'd play 2E Greyhawk (actually, Greyhawk never did anything like this to the extent that it was done in the Realms, but I still use the 1E Circle of Eight on the rare occasion that I refer to Greyhawk). If I wanted any of the other things that the 4E Realms gave me, I'd play Eberron. All I want is for the Realms to be their own world again, because as it stands with the Spellplague, we have a mash-up of the Realms (Cormyr, Tethyr, Waterdeep), Eberron, and Fourth Age Krynn, with a whole lot of dead iconic characters strewn about... I had continued that thought, but it got a bit strong. Anyway, I'm just saying that the Realms, outside of Cormyr and what we've seen of Waterdeep, feels like "everywhere else" now... and I thought WotC dropped DL and GH for lack of fan support, so why on *this* world would they want the Realms to resemble those worlds? Maybe that's exactly why we're looking at 5th edition already; maybe the Spellplague didn't turn out so well in terms of game product sales. It would be nice to know, one way or the other...
Will agree with both of you gents. I think that was one of the biggest walls that Wizbro ran into...Krynn, Athas, Eberron, and even Greyhawk (the boxed set From The Ashes, I believe it was called), all had post-apocalypse themes given to them in one degree or another. When they did the same to Faerun, they effectively tossed all their eggs into one basket. Up to that point, the Realms was free of that sort of thing (unless you lived in Tilverton).
In any event, Wizbro is keeping their cards close to their vest - unlike the system ('modular'), we have no idea how it's going to turn out for our Realms, beyond crossing our fingers and hoping Wizbro figures it out. |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jan 2012 : 01:24:23
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quote:
Old Man Harpell
Up to that point, the Realms was free of [apocalypse themes] (unless you lived in Tilverton).
Ah yes, the poor suffering bumpkins who live in Tilverton. Ye'd think they'd all have moved away by now, but since they haven't I can only speculate there must be something keeping them there. Maybe a buried Netherese artifact or something. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jan 2012 : 04:01:03
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They started to rebuild, but then I think someone took away their drugs.
Or after the Spellplague hit (and wiped them out yet again), they probably just said Frak it. Civil War, ToT, Shades, Spellplague... after awhile, you just gotta figure 'the gods' hate you. That place is starting to make Phlan and Yulash look like a party.
I have to add Zhentil Keep to that list now. You know what? Just don't build a city around the Moonsea - its got some really bad karma.
Not sure what this has to do with the OP... |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 26 Jan 2012 15:50:40 |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jan 2012 : 05:14:46
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| Perhaps the surviving inhabitants of Tilverton are understandably inclined to "use derogatory terms for the Realms"? |
[/Ayrik] |
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Imp
Learned Scribe
231 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jan 2012 : 05:42:00
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Really, some people can't take a joke. If you're offended by someone saying "Sellplague", I pity you.
quote:
But I take heart in knowing that I'm better (in pretty much every faucet of character) than people who fall to such immature tactics. To me, people who use those phrases consistantly are often close-minded to dialogue about such topics and complaints from those people hold less water.
That's not nice. I'm not close-minded... just dense.  |
Edited by - Imp on 26 Jan 2012 05:46:55 |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4438 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jan 2012 : 06:21:09
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quote:
Originally posted by Imp
Really, some people can't take a joke. If you're offended by someone saying "Sellplague", I pity you.
quote:
But I take heart in knowing that I'm better (in pretty much every faucet of character) than people who fall to such immature tactics. To me, people who use those phrases consistantly are often close-minded to dialogue about such topics and complaints from those people hold less water.
That's not nice. I'm not close-minded... just dense.
It's not intened to be nice. But it is good to know your limitations |
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Imp
Learned Scribe
231 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jan 2012 : 07:15:57
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| Why are you being so mean? |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31772 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jan 2012 : 07:34:08
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| Perhaps we should end this near-endless cycle of general disgruntled affairs, and get back to the subject of the scroll, eh? |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 26 Jan 2012 07:36:04 |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3287 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jan 2012 : 07:57:57
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You can seal it if you want Sage.
Done with the Edition Waring. Just tired of seeing scribes belittling the 4E Realms is all. We did call Dennis on his calling Manshoon a certain name awhile back, yet when someone says that it's time to stop calling the 4E Realms names, they get turned into a villain.
Sure I was rude about it. My bad. |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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Imp
Learned Scribe
231 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jan 2012 : 08:27:45
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| I will call whatever I want however I want, thank you very much. |
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Thauranil
Master of Realmslore
India
1591 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jan 2012 : 08:42:40
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| Freedom of speech versus Libel. The battle goes on. |
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Thauramarth
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
729 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jan 2012 : 09:54:06
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Not a big fan of 4E and the 4E Realms (well, honsestly, more a case of Ignorance and Apathy - I don't know, and I don't care).
However, even less of a fan of trying to stop attitudes and ideas by stopping the use of certain words or expressions. Does not work. Never has, never will. The underlying attitudes do not change, and if one derogatory expression is stamped on, two others will step up.
This said, by the standards of internet communications, even the most derogatory terms used for the Realms / changed Realms, are kids' stuff.
Just my take on things. |
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Using derogatory terms for the Realms
