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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4459 Posts |
 Posted - 09 Jan 2012 : 04:49:23
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THIS thread speaks of something really big being announced by WotC tomorrow and there's all sorts of rumors floating around. One poster on Paizo says it was even talked about on CNN and the N.Y. Times. I asked for a link, but he was not forthcoming and further scrying attempts returned nada. Then I see Matt says to "keep an eye out for tomorrow" so I know something is being announced, but what?
Only time will tell and it might be something "meh" or something "Whoa!". Hopefully it'll be good because I'm seeing a resurgence of a LOT of negativity towards WotC (not here, mind you) and espically with Dancy's article hinting at how bad TRPGs are doing and the Past, Present, and Future articles that really paint Mike Mearls in a not so friendly light (IMO), I'm just kinda nervous.
Thoughs or wild speculations?
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Therise
Master of Realmslore
1272 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jan 2012 : 05:34:45
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Sage might know, he lives on that magical time-traveling continent that exists in the future.
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Female, 40-year DM of a homebrew-evolved 1E Realms, including a few added tidbits of 2E and 3E lore; played originally in AD&D, then in Rolemaster. Be a DM for your kids and grandkids, gaming is excellent for families! |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3290 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jan 2012 : 05:47:00
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I think that WotC will start selling PDF's again. Meaning all EDITION PDF's. Don't know why, just a hunch...
Depending on the price, I will finish up my 2E FR Collection.
Or 5E is on the way and their will be much wailing and gnashing of teeth yet again. Not that I have a problem with a 5E per say. |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jan 2012 : 05:49:24
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| I think one or a few days, or weeks, is not so long to wait. So I'll wait instead of speculating. |
[/Ayrik] |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jan 2012 : 07:12:41
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quote:
Originally posted by Therise
Sage might know, he lives on that magical time-traveling continent that exists in the future.
I haven't heard anything yet.
Though some of the more interesting theories I've seen popping up elsewhere range from customer-orientated initiatives like Wizards' offering a new subscription/payment-plan for their DDI framework, to the unveiling of core PDF products that run the D&D game into 4.5e.
For myself, I think Ayrik has the right of it. I'm content just to wait and see. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Matt James
Forgotten Realms Game Designer
USA
918 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jan 2012 : 11:32:14
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| For what it's worth, I have no idea what the big news is. If I had to give an educated guess, I would say it is related to either PDF releases of past editions up until present (OD&D through 4e), or a major overhaul of the GSL to make it easier to use for 3PP releases. |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4692 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jan 2012 : 12:02:03
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Oh WotC is very good at meeting deadlines, however if announcement to be made this day it likely would occur Pacific Time between 9:00 AM and 5:00 PM.
I do not see anything yet. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3290 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jan 2012 : 13:44:16
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| I heard that the announcement will be at 10am eastern time. |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3290 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jan 2012 : 13:49:08
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| 5E IS ON THE WAY. |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3290 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jan 2012 : 14:16:31
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It's official!
The student has become the teacher.
They are following Paizo's lead on 5E. |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
Edited by - Brimstone on 09 Jan 2012 14:21:38 |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4459 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jan 2012 : 15:00:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Brimstone
It's official!
The student has become the teacher.
They are following Paizo's lead on 5E.
Following Paizo's lead huh? Yea, if I want unbalanced classes, wizard instant-win buttons, Rogues that suck at life, and a plethora of skills that have absoutley no bearing on the actual game I'll just go play 3.5 or current Pathfinder.
Can't say I'm not suprised and I'll eat my words about Margaret's comments a few months back but I can't say I'm super-joyfully overjoyed with candy and sunshine. I just don't have the drive and crusader's zeal to support yet another sysetem.
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Skeptic
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1273 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jan 2012 : 15:23:10
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From here :
The Forgotten Realms will be supported from the start, and a video game art studio from China has been hired to fully detail the Realms. I asked if going forward support would be continued for the current time after the Spellplague and the Neverwinter Campaign. A WotC spokesperson answered, "The Forgotten Realms has a rich history and we will support all of it. It is for the gamers to decide which time they would enjoy playing in." That would allow Wizards to take advantage of a massive back catalog of products; however, there are no current plans that we know of for other settings - we assume these will follow in later years. |
Edited by - Skeptic on 09 Jan 2012 15:23:42 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36873 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jan 2012 : 15:33:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Brimstone
It's official!
The student has become the teacher.
They are following Paizo's lead on 5E.
Yeah, I was thinking that when I read the part about open playtesting. I thought Paizo was brilliant for doing that...
And it's a far cry from the 4E playtesting, which was done in secret. And according to rumor at the time, playtesters were forbidden from making negative commentary (my only info on this comes from someone who claims he was one of the playtesters; I do not have solid proof).
I'm not surprised that they're announcing 5E. 4E has been out for a while, though I've not enough info to say whether or not it was time for a change. Them hiring back Monte Cook was a pretty strong indicator, too, and then Margaret Weis confirmed it. I said then that that was proof enough for me to be convinced, though my opinion on that -- as on so many other things we discuss here -- was not universal.
My overall reaction to this is "meh." Partially because I expected it, and partially because my rule-preference is now Pathfinder. I am neutral on this news release. I'll remain neutral on the ruleset, as well, until I have some hard data to use to form an opinion.
I hope some things will be different with this release of the rules, but time will tell.
I was actually hoping for something pertaining to pdfs of prior editions, though. When WotC yanked the sales of all legal pdfs (including re-downloading ones you'd already paid for, with the provision that you could download it multiple times  ), they said they were going to find an alternative to the prior business model. So far as I know, they've not said anything else since then, and the only alternatives are not legal ones.
I would encourage everyone to wait until we have some concrete information before forming an opinion on the ruleset. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36873 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jan 2012 : 15:45:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
quote:
Originally posted by Brimstone
It's official!
The student has become the teacher.
They are following Paizo's lead on 5E.
Following Paizo's lead huh? Yea, if I want unbalanced classes, wizard instant-win buttons, Rogues that suck at life, and a plethora of skills that have absoutley no bearing on the actual game I'll just go play 3.5 or current Pathfinder.
Can't say I'm not suprised and I'll eat my words about Margaret's comments a few months back but I can't say I'm super-joyfully overjoyed with candy and sunshine. I just don't have the drive and crusader's zeal to support yet another sysetem.
Comments like that can be made for any edition. Let's not use the announcement of a new edition to re-open the edition wars, please. That'll happen soon enough.  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36873 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jan 2012 : 15:50:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Brimstone
It's official!
The student has become the teacher.
They are following Paizo's lead on 5E.
I just read the New York Times article, and I'm disappointed that they mention WotC's "exceedingly rare effort for the gaming industry over the next few months: asking hundreds of thousands of fans to tell them how exactly they should reboot the franchise" but fail to mention that Paizo did it before WotC, to great success. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 09 Jan 2012 15:50:36 |
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Richard Lee Byers
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
1814 Posts |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jan 2012 : 15:57:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
Following Paizo's lead huh? Yea, if I want unbalanced classes, wizard instant-win buttons, Rogues that suck at life, and a plethora of skills that have absoutley no bearing on the actual game I'll just go play 3.5 or current Pathfinder.
I interpret that to mean that they are aping Paizo's technique in the sense that they are holding an Open Playtest, not that 5e will resemble PRPG mechanically. After all, that would basically be WotC going back in time to 3.5, and they've been there, done that.
I'm excited to see what new mechanical innovation takes place for 5e, and I hope that we'll see more emphasis placed on flavor integration from the very beginning of the process.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4459 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jan 2012 : 16:15:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
Following Paizo's lead huh? Yea, if I want unbalanced classes, wizard instant-win buttons, Rogues that suck at life, and a plethora of skills that have absoutley no bearing on the actual game I'll just go play 3.5 or current Pathfinder.
I interpret that to mean that they are aping Paizo's technique in the sense that they are holding an Open Playtest, not that 5e will resemble PRPG mechanically. After all, that would basically be WotC going back in time to 3.5, and they've been there, done that.
I'm excited to see what new mechanical innovation takes place for 5e, and I hope that we'll see more emphasis placed on flavor integration from the very beginning of the process.
Cheers
Yet 75% of the criticism was from a mechanical viewpoint, which makes me wonder how much of it is going to revert to previous mechanics. The resurgence of Vancian magic, Base Attack Bonus, and spells that require the defender to roll against. Ability score penalties for certain races and a pigeonholing of those races to classes, or Skill ranks....lots and lots of ranks. Just how much of these aspcts are going to filter back into the game because it's what Paizo does or what 3.5 did?
These are elements that scare me, elements that I feel take away from the game or bog it down. Open Playtesting is great and I think Paizo did right by it and the fact that it was a free PDF download was awesome. So if WotC follows suit, I think there is a chance for success. But to be honest, the future scares me because people are lookiing so far into the past for good ideas and i'm of the opinion that the past really has nothing mechanically great to offer. |
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3247 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jan 2012 : 16:20:12
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| I wouldn't worry overmuch, Diffan. Those that are using the Pathfinder rules (or the plethora of OSR games) won't likely come back to playtest the new edition, since they have what they want already. So, most of those doing the playtesting will be 4E fans and new players. |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3290 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jan 2012 : 16:36:23
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| Here is the link to the playtest group. |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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Therise
Master of Realmslore
1272 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jan 2012 : 17:29:44
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I really hope that Vancian magic doesn't get put back in. At the same time, I wasn't fond of dailies.
Maybe they'll move to something like a mana system, or power points. Wouldn't it be interesting to see "Weave points" on a character sheet? Heh!
George: "Chauncey, how strong are you in the Weave?"
Chauncey: "Forty-two"
George: "But thats..."
Chauncey: "Hush!"
And I smell another Realms-Shattering Event coming down the pike. 
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Female, 40-year DM of a homebrew-evolved 1E Realms, including a few added tidbits of 2E and 3E lore; played originally in AD&D, then in Rolemaster. Be a DM for your kids and grandkids, gaming is excellent for families! |
Edited by - Therise on 09 Jan 2012 17:33:24 |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4692 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jan 2012 : 17:38:49
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| Well maybe they will go for Mana points *shrugs* |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jan 2012 : 17:48:59
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quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
I wouldn't worry overmuch, Diffan. Those that are using the Pathfinder rules (or the plethora of OSR games) won't likely come back to playtest the new edition, since they have what they want already. So, most of those doing the playtesting will be 4E fans and new players.
Oh, I don't know. Having the chance to build a new edition that's even better? I think that's a carrot that has at least a chance of success.
This is not in any way to say that Pathfinder is lacking--I certainly don't think it is. The remarkable PFRPG system is built upon and improved over an already proven system (3.5). That in itself is the best argument for how this strategy to build 5e can succeed: the game can and should always be evolving, or else it stagnates.
If people had stopped at 2e and said "the game cannot ever be more pleasing to me!", then not only would we not have some of the awesome stuff we have (in which I include 3.x, all the OGL stuff, PFRPG, and 4e), then the tabletop RPG industry would be long gone. (Not to mention us grognards would still be scratching our heads over Thac0.)
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jan 2012 : 17:50:10
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quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
Well maybe they will go for Mana points *shrugs*
Everything at-will all the time? 
*Not entirely a joke! (See 3.5 warlock for reference.)
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Bakra
Senior Scribe
628 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jan 2012 : 17:55:01
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quote:
Originally posted by Therise
And I smell another Realms-Shattering Event coming down the pike.
You mean like this:
Spinner of Lies is a sequel to Sword of the Gods, and is also tied to the Rise of the Underdark, an event that will have bold, sweeping ramifications across (and under) the Forgotten Realms. |
I hope Candlekeep continues to be the friendly forum of fellow Realms-lovers that it has always been, as we all go through this together. If you don’t want to move to the “new” Realms, that doesn’t mean there’s anything wrong with either you or the “old” Realms. Goodness knows Candlekeep, and the hearts of its scribes, are both big enough to accommodate both. If we want them to be.
(Strikes dramatic pose, raises sword to gleam in the sunset, and hopes breeches won’t fall down.)
Enough for now. The Realms lives! I have spoken! Ale and light wines half price, served by a smiling Storm Silverhand fetchingly clad in thigh-high boots and naught else! Ahem . .
So saith Ed. <snip>
love to all,
THO
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Therise
Master of Realmslore
1272 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jan 2012 : 18:15:03
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quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
Well maybe they will go for Mana points *shrugs*
Everything at-will all the time?
*Not entirely a joke! (See 3.5 warlock for reference.)
Cheers
Seriously, at-will all the time spells would be excellent!
Plus, they have to redo rituals. Just make those regular spells with a high mana or material component cost. If it's a complex and involved spell, just require time, expensive components, or maybe reading from the spellbook so you don't miss a key element.
In fact, I wouldn't mind if they kept the V,S,M aspects of spells, I'd like that. Such things tie in very well with novels, and make sense in a sympathetic magic kind of way.
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Female, 40-year DM of a homebrew-evolved 1E Realms, including a few added tidbits of 2E and 3E lore; played originally in AD&D, then in Rolemaster. Be a DM for your kids and grandkids, gaming is excellent for families! |
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Therise
Master of Realmslore
1272 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jan 2012 : 18:15:58
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quote:
Originally posted by Bakra
quote:
Originally posted by Therise
And I smell another Realms-Shattering Event coming down the pike.
You mean like this:
Spinner of Lies is a sequel to Sword of the Gods, and is also tied to the Rise of the Underdark, an event that will have bold, sweeping ramifications across (and under) the Forgotten Realms.
Oh my... really?
...and I see it's a Cordell book. Speculating early, it'll involve not only a massive RSE but some superpowered Marvel-style "anti-hero" will be fighting demigods and pulling on the strings of Lolth's web. Probably some far realms aberrations will do some inexplicable things like dance around mushrooms for a whole chapter, and then something "ancient and eeeeevill" will screw up the Underdark in some horrible way (because changing the cosmology and laying waste to Faerun's surface wasn't quite enough).
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Female, 40-year DM of a homebrew-evolved 1E Realms, including a few added tidbits of 2E and 3E lore; played originally in AD&D, then in Rolemaster. Be a DM for your kids and grandkids, gaming is excellent for families! |
Edited by - Therise on 09 Jan 2012 18:51:26 |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4459 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jan 2012 : 18:33:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
Well maybe they will go for Mana points *shrugs*
Everything at-will all the time?
*Not entirely a joke! (See 3.5 warlock for reference.)
Cheers
heh, yea and it was considered "soo over-powered" |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11993 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jan 2012 : 16:32:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
I wouldn't worry overmuch, Diffan. Those that are using the Pathfinder rules (or the plethora of OSR games) won't likely come back to playtest the new edition, since they have what they want already. So, most of those doing the playtesting will be 4E fans and new players.
I wouldn't state that. I've only recently turned my eyes towards the pathfinder stuff. I think they've done some things right, but I will only say that they're getting things better than what was done with 4E. At the same time, I can see where some of the 4E rules could bear some fruit when mixed with some 3E rules (the ritual rules for instance, intrigue me. I believe there's a point where ritual magic can remove a lot of the extraneous spells that were getting created and never memorized.)... but overall, they went and dumbed it down way too much. If the original brand can come out with something that fixes the dumbing down, I'll just chalk the $300 I spent on Paizo books to an interesting investment to troll through for ideas. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11993 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jan 2012 : 16:37:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Therise
I really hope that Vancian magic doesn't get put back in. At the same time, I wasn't fond of dailies.
Maybe they'll move to something like a mana system, or power points. Wouldn't it be interesting to see "Weave points" on a character sheet? Heh!
George: "Chauncey, how strong are you in the Weave?"
Chauncey: "Forty-two"
George: "But thats..."
Chauncey: "Hush!"
And I smell another Realms-Shattering Event coming down the pike.
I actually like the idea of the Vancian magic when combined with something LIKE the reserve feat idea. Some rules just need to be played with the numbers used. Maybe even a mix of the two where mages get to pick certain at will effects as they level up, but they still use memorization for the majority of their special spells. The strength of the Vancian magic was that you could "know" a lot more spells than you necessarily have memorized and therefore be versatile. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Big news tomorrow (01/09/12) for WotC?
