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Originally posted by Therise

That's a strange and seriously warped conclusion, given what I said. But, given that you're having difficulty interacting with other scribes as well, I'm not sure there's much point in continuing this.

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Originally posted by Diffan

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Originally posted by sleyvas


Like the earlier person noted, I see a lot of scrolls actually being created by mages, but not with combat spells. Essentially to me, a scroll is a prepped version of a ritual in 4E. Both cost some cash to use (scroll in cost of scroll creation, ritual in ritual components and ritual research). There can be some arguments that the scroll costs needed to be lessened some for the upper level effects.... and there can be some arguments that maybe the ritual idea should be introduced into 3E and some of the spells themselves removed (for instance, possibly a lot of the scrying type effects or door locking effects or laying down wards, etc....).

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Personally, I enjoy the ritual-aspect of 4E and I hope they do that with the new edition. I think it makes sense that some wizards spells are more complex, time consuming, and need more costly spell components to use each time. Where Rituals failed in 4E is in pricing vs. level. Rituals were too costly at low level to be used more than say....two dozen times during the whole Heroic Tier but by Epic tier, they were a dime a dozen and most classes had powers or abilities that just simply made them obsolete. Or a low level Ritual is spammed for some it's ability which wasn't the intent.

They also didn't have the rules for "Scrolls" for the rituals to be used during exploration or with much ease. Had they ironed out the pricing vs. level, scroll-able rituals with possibly the pricing being paid prior to writing the scroll and maybe a cut-down on the time it takes to use one, it would've had more success.

I think the biggest gripe I heard about them was that they were intened to be use outside of combat. I actually thought that was clever and a great balance point to wizards not hving to memorize these rituals. No wizard wants to go dungeon delving with Clairvoyance/Clairaudience, Knock, Darkway as a prepared spells when it's a good possibility that they'll be met with resistance or monsters.

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Originally posted by sleyvas


However, the piece of 4E that just made me leave was that wizards basically are pre-defined as to what they can do. The whole idea of a spell duel just comes down to "and what spells does he know"... and he's not going to know many.

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In all my games and years, I've not once saw a spell duel between mages. For one, I think its because the rules were really bad and for another, it was far easier to just pave the way for the figher or melee guy to beat up on him. Of course YMMV and I'm sure there are people who get into that sort of thing. I just don't think it's a big aspect of the game as a whole.

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