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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
8032 Posts |
 Posted - 14 Dec 2011 : 07:10:02
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| Magics do exist, in Spelljammer and in other sources like Netheril, which can temporarily affect crystal spheres. Would it really be impossible to create miniature crystal sphere containers to use as phlog storage vessels? |
[/Ayrik] |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 14 Dec 2011 : 07:25:06
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I believe the “limit” would (ultimately) depend on two things. First, the level of the mages who will cast the ritual. Experience and power have to go hand in hand. And second, their exact goal. If the latter happens to be too ambitious and too reality-altering, it's likely that the gods of all pantheons would take interest and stop the meddling elves at all costs, especially if the said goal is anathema to the gods' existence. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Nicolai Withander
Master of Realmslore
Denmark
1093 Posts |
Posted - 14 Dec 2011 : 09:26:02
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By the way... I dont think Elven High Magic runs without the weave:
.Where Art is life, Lore is thought, and Song is beauty;
Arselu.Tel.Quess is all three in their immaculate forms yet
combined into a new, purer whole. No N.Tel.Quess can conceive
of achieving such a union with life, thought, and
beauty to weave such wonders, for only the People can touch
the Weave in this way. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36966 Posts |
Posted - 14 Dec 2011 : 10:04:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
Magics do exist, in Spelljammer and in other sources like Netheril, which can temporarily affect crystal spheres. Would it really be impossible to create miniature crystal sphere containers to use as phlog storage vessels?
Most of the sphere-affecting magic was centered around openings in the sphere.
It was given as an absolute in the source material: the phlogiston could not exist within a crystal sphere. No matter what was tried, it would disappear as soon as someone entered a sphere. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 14 Dec 2011 : 15:34:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
Magics do exist, in Spelljammer and in other sources like Netheril, which can temporarily affect crystal spheres. Would it really be impossible to create miniature crystal sphere containers to use as phlog storage vessels?
In terms of homebrew lore -- such as that which I indicated above from spelljammer.org -- specially crafted "arcane bottles" are said to contain captured pieces of the Phlogiston for use inside a Crystal Sphere. Essentially, the arcane containers act as null-spaces within a Crystal Sphere -- thus allowing the Phlogiston to "rush into" the void and fill the space.
Otherwise, according to official lore, it's what Wooly already noted above. |
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Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
8032 Posts |
Posted - 15 Dec 2011 : 00:59:06
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Are there any known instances of Elven High Mages practicing their magic outside the Realms or Realmspace? Any High Mage spelljammers? Any in Greyhawk, Krynn, Sigil, elsewhere? If it exists nowhere else, then I'm inclined to believe High Magic must be dependant on Mystra or the Weave ... especially since elves originated on other worlds.
Do the drow have High Mages? |
[/Ayrik] |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36966 Posts |
Posted - 15 Dec 2011 : 02:11:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
Do the drow have High Mages?
They didn't before the Lady Penitent trilogy. Prior to that, they were excluded from being High Mages. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 15 Dec 2011 : 02:43:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
Are there any known instances of Elven High Mages practicing their magic outside the Realms or Realmspace? Any High Mage spelljammers? Any in Greyhawk, Krynn, Sigil, elsewhere?
Not officially, as I can recall. Or, rather, I don't remember any instances in either DRAGONLANCE, SPELLJAMMER, or PLANESCAPE -- and I've read practically everything for these settings.
I don't know about GREYHAWK, though I'm inclined to doubt it.
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 15 Dec 2011 04:33:28 |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
8032 Posts |
Posted - 15 Dec 2011 : 04:01:42
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| Another line of questioning might be about (pre-returned) Abeir. Without Mystra's Ban (indeed without even Mystra and the Weave) it should be possible to cast completely uncapped unrestricted "1E style" magic in Abeir, ie: spells up to at least 12th level and without any arbitrary limiters imposed on their "per level" effects/damage. Admittedly, this might not still be the case in post-Spellplague Abeir. Have those dragons developed any equivalent to High Magic in Abeir? |
[/Ayrik] |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4702 Posts |
Posted - 15 Dec 2011 : 04:39:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
Do the drow have High Mages?
They didn't before the Lady Penitent trilogy. Prior to that, they were excluded from being High Mages.
It was left unsaid but it appeared likely the dark elves (before the Descent becoming Drow) did have High Mages, they were part of the fair elves then. I though do not recall any being recorded is lore. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
8032 Posts |
Posted - 15 Dec 2011 : 05:57:24
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quote:
Kentinal
It was left unsaid but it appeared likely the dark elves (before the Descent becoming Drow) did have High Mages, they were part of the fair elves then. I though do not recall any being recorded is lore.
If that's true then I'd have to question why the drow had no access to High Magic (prior to Lady Penitent) ... particularly since they possessed sentient (and apparently cooperative) selu'kiira stones who understood and could teach High Magic.
Perhaps the ancient High Magic rituals which bound the drow to the faerzress of the Underdark somehow inhibited their high magical abilities?
Perhaps Corellon and his Seldarine controls some sort of Elf-Weave, and (through the actions of surface elves, at least) denies access to the abominable Dhaerow?
Perhaps Lolth forbids or undermines the use of High Magic among her followers? |
[/Ayrik] |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 15 Dec 2011 : 06:15:45
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quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
Perhaps Lolth forbids or undermines the use of High Magic among her followers?
Only if the goal of the ritual itself is leaning towards order. Or if she sees that it somehow presents a possibility---however remote---of usurping her godhood. She revels in chaos, but experience has taught her to be extra-careful. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4702 Posts |
Posted - 15 Dec 2011 : 07:00:37
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The Dark Elves decided not to aid in the Sundering, it appeared they could have.
Drow clearly were denied access to the surface in any meaningful way so clearly that status of access to High Magic, a combination of Sun and Moon might have been a factor.
Of course all the details of effects of what the total effect on Drow was never detailed, nothing has been fully detailed and never can be.
Version changes and retcons only make things harder to puzzle out with clues provided. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
8032 Posts |
Posted - 15 Dec 2011 : 08:20:33
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It's been said that the secret process for making elven chain involves mithril and moonlight, imbuing it with qualities which enhance lightness, flexibility, and silvery beauty. Paralleled by the secret process for making drow chain from adamantine and faerzress, imbuing it with qualities which make it dark, stealthy, impervious, and magically potent.
This might confirm the moon as a source of elven identity (and magic). A source the drow cannot draw from. I suppose I should be glad the drow never invented what would obviously be called Dark Magic, too corny for me. |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 15 Dec 2011 08:23:24 |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 15 Dec 2011 : 14:54:22
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No need for Dark Magic. Whatever it accomplishes, shadow magic accomplishes as well. And we know that a few drow have been dabbling in the latter. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Elven High Magic limits.
