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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
 Posted - 18 Nov 2011 : 16:29:37
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I'm researching on the world's most difficult to translate words. I found out that Ilunga, from the Tshiluba language spoken in south-eastern Democratic Republic of the Congo, has been chosen by numerous translators as the world’s most untranslatable word. Ilunga indicates a person who is ready to forgive any abuse the first time it occurs, to tolerate it the second time, but to neither forgive nor tolerate a third offense.
What word [in any of the dead or present languages of Toril] is the most difficult to translate in Common [or English]?
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Every beginning has an end. |
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Quale
Master of Realmslore
1757 Posts |
Posted - 18 Nov 2011 : 17:03:00
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| Phaerimm wind-words I think |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36877 Posts |
Posted - 18 Nov 2011 : 17:25:32
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| Since none of us speak any Realmsian languages, and since no Realmsian language has a complete dictionary that we can peruse, I don't see that this question can be answered. |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 18 Nov 2011 : 17:51:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Quale
Phaerimm wind-words I think
I'm not sure if we can even call them words. They are like songs without lyrics. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 18 Nov 2011 : 23:27:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Since none of us speak any Realmsian languages, and since no Realmsian language has a complete dictionary that we can peruse, I don't see that this question can be answered.
I'd be inclined to agree.
Though, I'd imagine Ed may have *some* thoughts on the matter, given that he has touched on these subject of names, words, and languages in the Realms from time to time. |
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Matt James
Forgotten Realms Game Designer
USA
918 Posts |
Posted - 18 Nov 2011 : 23:31:50
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| I know of a word. I just can't translate it. |
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Seethyr
Master of Realmslore
USA
1239 Posts |
Posted - 19 Nov 2011 : 00:08:20
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| Pretty much anything Pikel Bouldershoulder says, particularly "Oo oi." He's a strange doodad... |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 21 Nov 2011 : 13:54:21
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How about the aboleths' language? |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 22 Nov 2011 : 04:42:49
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Let me share this interesting reply from Ed:
quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
Dennis, I’m not certain, but of all the Realmslore I’ve created, it would probably be the Draconic word “rlin’d’kraukh”
. . . which means, in Common: “small and somewhat intelligent mammal that is not a transformed dragon nor the favored of a dragon nor carrying a dragon egg or seed or other dragon relic, wittingly or unwittingly, that is, so far as I know, not openly and formally an ally, servant, slave, or worker-in-common-cause with a dragon, but that is a coerced or unwitting pawn I believe I can manipulate, whose behavior I can predict with fair confidence, because of its observed prior behavior under duress or manipulation of myself or other dragonkind.” (This is further colored by usage: a dragon would not use this word of someone they weren't eager to manipulate because they considered the creature to be manipulated relatively weak, unsuitable, or distasteful. They use it for ideal or useful pawns they anticipate using in successful ways.)
Note: by “small and somewhat intelligent,” what is meant is a creature habitually of smaller size than an older-than-newborn-hatchling dragon of my sort, that is intelligent enough to speak, remember messages and individual creatures met in the past, and master at least one articulate language. In other words, humans (and all of the demi-human and humanoid races).
There are certainly many more baffling words in the Realms, that have to do with faith-specific religious concepts or school-specific magical details . . . but they are specialized jargon, not difficult to translate at all for those who have the proper frames of reference (are of the right faith with the proper inner teachings, or have the right magical mastery and knowledge).
For instance, it’s hard to describe the color green to someone who’s been blind from birth - - and it’s hard to describe the feel of the Weave when working with it in certain manners under particular conditions, to someone who’s never “felt the Weave” because they have no aptitude for the Art at all.
But for someone who has shared experiences or guild initiations or technical training with the speaker, word meanings come more easily.
So saith Ed. Who has been slowly developing Realms linguistics for forty-five years now, and is still going strong...
love to all,
THO
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 22 Nov 2011 : 16:45:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
Here's one- "love" translated into drowish. It's a foreign concept to them....
Love spelled backwards is evil (well... evol... but close enough.) 
I would imagine a word that sounded both derogatory and guttural (like hacking up some phlegm), and it would mean something like "an unhealthy desire to spend more time round a creature you should be taking more advantage of, using in some horrific manner, or just out-right killing in some amusing fashion".
On a more serious note, in other threads I have related how I think the Elven word 'Myth' (which is also used by other races, including the Netherese) is actually an even more ancient Fey word that means something like "a haven; a place for many to go when there is trouble; an area of power and safety; a place to hide or regroup". |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 22 Nov 2011 16:56:09 |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 23 Nov 2011 : 12:42:49
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A common word for some group is a jargon to another. And establishing a linguistic standards upon which the translatability of a word can be based is quite...difficult, though most likely possible. Perhaps Ed should create those standards. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Lady Shadowflame
Learned Scribe
115 Posts |
Posted - 27 Nov 2011 : 17:52:21
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I don't know which would be the most that way, but both drowic and elven terms seem to depend upon intonation to an incredible degree. When you have something that can mean five different things depending upon inflection, and you actually mean for pretty much all of them to apply, not even context is going to help translate that easily.
Like this, for example:
Cormanthor - ‘The King's Vow Forest’ (Pronounced <kor-manth-OR>)
Cormanthor - ‘Place of Great Promise’ (Pronounced <kor-MANTH-or>)
Cormanthor - ‘Ruler of the Forest True’ (Pronounced <KOR-manth-or>)
And then you add in
Cormanthyr - ‘Culmination of Hope and Faith; The Fulfillment of Promise’
Which is almost entirely the same word in appearance, but has a whole bunch of new meanings, apparently via that single small change in the word.
And then there's:
Ty’athalae – ‘The Peace Attained Through the Absolute Beauty of Nature and Harmony with One's Surroundings’
Words like that one illustrate concepts found in a cultural mindset that might not be present elsewhere to the same degree.
Which in real world terms seems slightly akin to the way English has borrowed any number of words because they more efficiently expressed concepts we just didn't have words for. Schadenfreude, for instance. Using the translation would be unwieldy, comprised as it is of the long explanation needed to convey the full meaning. Simply borrowing the word skips that need. |
Save a lizard... Ride a drow.
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Edited by - Lady Shadowflame on 27 Nov 2011 18:04:41 |
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Thelonius
Senior Scribe
Spain
730 Posts |
Posted - 27 Nov 2011 : 18:34:11
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| Always found funny the reference about the word "Kalach-cha", and it's translation and origin. Does this word really exist in the Forgotten Realms, or is just created for the game? Sometimes it has been translated as "Shard-bearer" in-game, but one of the Githyanki you find gives you a much deeper translation of it. |
"If you are to truly understand, then you will need the contrast, not adherence to a single ideal." - Kreia
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"I am death, come for thee" - Nimbul, from Baldur's Gate I just before being badly spanked
Sapientia sola libertas est |
Edited by - Thelonius on 27 Nov 2011 18:35:23 |
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Varl
Learned Scribe
USA
284 Posts |
Posted - 28 Nov 2011 : 22:17:40
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quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
Here's one- "love" translated into drowish. It's a foreign concept to them....
Heh. It can't be too foreign if there are more than two drow in a campaign... |
I'm on a permanent vacation to the soul. -Tash Sultana |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 29 Nov 2011 : 03:31:09
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Chamber pot...would be very difficult to translate in the orcs' language. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 08 Dec 2011 : 02:20:27
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| Stlarn it....oh no wait that one is fairly easy. |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
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Most Untranslatable Word
