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Imp
Learned Scribe
231 Posts |
 Posted - 14 Nov 2011 : 20:49:08
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How does a Monk go about following Lolths dogma (evil & chaos)?
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4706 Posts |
Posted - 14 Nov 2011 : 21:10:53
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Not sure a monk can, however there certainly can be variant rules.
Monks tend to be lawful, and while Drow, Lolthian society has laws, in the grand scheme of things they are not considered lawful.
Oh it is possible, I suppose for a lawful character to survive for a time, being Chaotic would likely help. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Imp
Learned Scribe
231 Posts |
Posted - 15 Nov 2011 : 04:08:34
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| There is a canon Monk order in the city Undrek'Thoz called the Blackened Fist. You can find a bit of info about them in the Underdark splatbook. But not enough for me. Besides I'm not exactly seeking lore about this specific order, but more general ideas or suggestions about drow Monks who worship Lolth. |
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MrHedgehog
Senior Scribe
688 Posts |
Posted - 15 Nov 2011 : 19:46:20
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Be a disciplined fighter like a spider. Meditate on the nature of evil, and darkness. Learn how to fight with your fists... pop a monk!
There are many examples of lawful worshipers of chaotic deities and vice versa. You can be an orderly follower of a chaotic deity
Or ignore that monks have to be lawful, that never made sense to me. I ascribe to the 4th edition idea that you can be of any alignment for any class.
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Imp
Learned Scribe
231 Posts |
Posted - 16 Nov 2011 : 03:32:39
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Hm. I didn't think about it this way. I was convinced that Lolth is most of all concerned about Chaos and that the Monks were somehow following her dogma and received a little of her favor while still being Lawful. But now that you say it, they could actually concern themselves with all the other aspects of Lolths portfolio.
One thing that I'm quite curious about is: What does Lolth herself think about Monks (or Lawful followers in general) that worship her?
Oh. And BTW, there's another thing that came to my mind, but I'll post it in another thread. |
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MrHedgehog
Senior Scribe
688 Posts |
Posted - 18 Nov 2011 : 08:25:50
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In the seventh War of the Spider Queen book Ressurection she tells Quenthel that she is to ordered and lawful to be her [drow word I forget that meant chosen] but she should return to Menzo to lead her faith. Although she is chaotic, chaotic beings might like having organized legions of followers rather than completely chaotic ineffective followers. Compare the "ordered" followers of Lolth to those of Kiaransali, Cyric, or Talos - who exist in large numbers but certainly would never be able to rule a city or nation effectively. (Alignment being a bit vague there seems to be more orderly, loyal, disciplined, etc. "chaotic" beings. With every being being different there are different degrees and types of "chaos")
Quenthel is "Chaotic Evil" (I think? Or is she Neutral Evil?) but Danifae was MORE chaotic, or something along those lines. In novels its also described as being ironic that the Priestesses must enforce laws and rules of a being of chaos. Monks might just help enforce the rules of less chaotic (than Lolth) Priestesses, or serve their own functions. Although they worship Lolth the ones in Undrek'Thoz were originally trained because weapons could not be transported through the portals connecting the disparate divisions of the "city".
I'd also like to re-iterate that you could just have chaotic or neutral evil monks : / I don't see how a chaotic alignment as precluding the ability to be disciplined, we can see many examples of disciplined and focused realms characters who are stated as being "chaotic". |
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Imp
Learned Scribe
231 Posts |
Posted - 18 Nov 2011 : 14:12:16
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| The alignment isn't an issue. I houseruled Monk in my games. I'm just curious about the fluff. |
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Zireael
Master of Realmslore
Poland
1190 Posts |
Posted - 25 Nov 2011 : 15:46:27
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| I think I agree with Hedgehog's idea... |
SiNafay Vrinn, the daughter of Lloth, from Ched Nasad!
http://zireael07.wordpress.com/ |
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Wolfhound75
Learned Scribe
USA
217 Posts |
Posted - 14 Dec 2011 : 17:24:56
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Being a long-time practitioner of martial arts, I'd weigh in on opinion as follows:
While the two-axis, nine-peg (2A9P) alignment system has always been a core part of what I feel D&D is, it certainly leaves room for some interpretation by both PCs and DMs.
Perhaps redefining how, especially for this particular case, we think about LAW vs. CHAOS may be helpful. For me, as a DM, I would view the Monk's requirement to be LAWFUL not from the precept that they have to enforce order over chaos in the world but rather that they must have a disciplined and ordered mind capable of extreme focus to accomplish their class powers/feats/abilities. Conversely, if their mind is undisciplined or unfocused, they would not have the mental discipline required to accomplish those same powers/feats/abilities. Changing your thoughts to this POV still allows the monk to meet the canon requirement of being LAWFUL in the 2A9P system but, doesn't necessarily restrict the class to being a follower of a law-aligned deity.
Take my RL example. I'm clearly accomplished in the discipline required to be a martial artist but, do I play on the side of The Lawful League and use my abilities to support the established status quo or, do I use my powers to support The Chaos Clowns and attempt to overthrow the establishment. Regardless of which side I choose, I need to maintain the mental discipline and order to continue to advance in my martial prowess.
As always, further thoughts or further discussion welcome!
Good Hunting! |
Edited by - Wolfhound75 on 14 Dec 2011 17:27:04 |
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Monks of Lolth?
