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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3567 Posts |
 Posted - 24 Oct 2011 : 23:11:54
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I was never among the group who thought the novels were holding back the"game"...but now with sometime to think about it. I think the game held back the novels!
What would be the drawbacks of allowing novels to be set in any time period and even possibly not be considered canon?
Why would I ask this question? Or more to the point why do I care?
I recently finished Shadowbane. A great new book set in what I guess is "the 4e realms".....enjoyable all the way around.....interesting new characters, even a thing or two I didn't love ( the plague with zombie- like symptoms)....and I thought how just like all of his prior realms work....Erik had crafted character I cared about. Characters whose stories I need to be told. Kalen and Myrin...I assume we will see their story unfold....but what happens if we jump another 100 years?
I was happy that Fox at Twilght somehow survived , but can't help but think what happened to her in that 100 years? I bet that is an hell of a story. How about Elminster, Storm, Alussair and Vangerdahast. I'm glad there still around, but how did they get here? So many stories left unfinished.
I'm greedy....I want them all, and more! If Elaine had an Epiphany and solved the Reclamation conundrum tomorrow....is there a place for something that "dated" compared to the rest of the novel line... Maybe but probably not. Or what if Paul S Kemp awoke with a great idea for a story about Cale from before his time with the Uskevren family, that explained much about his choices ?would there be room for it!? Or for a story that glimpses a distant , possible future? I'm not saying What Worcester would or would not do in such situations...just speculating based on the past.
I'd just like to see this constraint of time removed, thus unshackling our realms authors ( truly the most talented group we have ever bad writing about the realms)....I feel the realms has a rich, vibrant yet unknown history, just waiting to be shared.
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A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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althen artren
Senior Scribe
USA
780 Posts |
Posted - 24 Oct 2011 : 23:42:42
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You can't have a shared world with a bunch of
freelancer running around maybe contradicting
each other and writing stories. As a business, Im
am assuming that Wizbro sees stories from the past
as a limitation on the stories coming up, with their
nuking of most of the lore that came out in the
first three editions, they have given the current
stories that much more leeway in crafting new lore, with which
they can create more sourcebook and make more money.
I say good luck to them, they won't get my dollars anymore. |
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Arcanus
Senior Scribe
485 Posts |
Posted - 24 Oct 2011 : 23:56:28
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| I'm sure that after a while some of the 'bigger' back stories will be written about. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36965 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2011 : 00:28:03
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I've always felt that one of the strenths of the Realms was the way novels moved the timeline. To me, not having the novels moving the setting forward -- whether with big events or small -- makes the setting feel stagnant.
It's part of why I lost interest in Dragonlance. The Sage will disagree with me on this point, but after the first five trilogies of novels, I felt that only Weis and Hickman were moving the setting forward, and that everyone else went either sideways or backwards. And because of that, I drifted away from Krynn and into the Realms.
I've also ignored the Eber-whatsit novels, based purely on the fact that they weren't canon. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4702 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2011 : 00:46:51
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quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker
I was never among the group who thought the novels were holding back the"game"...but now with sometime to think about it. I think the game held back the novels!
What would be the drawbacks of allowing novels to be set in any time period and even possibly not be considered canon?
<snip>
The drawbacks? I suppose it depends on what you consider them to be.
Deleting something like 30 years of Canon, that rules were written about at times.
New players exposed first to novels and expecting the rules to be the same in the game as was in in off canon book.
In many ways I do not believe all novels should be canon, as they under even current publishing rules often rewrite canon. What you proposed however is any type of thing can occur, magic, fighter skills, endurance and so on that a new player might expect to be able to do. I see novels and some articles a problem right now, what you are asking for is more problems. Player says <foo> did this in <foo> novel, so why can my character do the same thing? A greater part to rules debates and player vs. player as opposed to game design of characters adventuring in a world (with the DM a designer and moderator or what happens).
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"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Firestorm
Senior Scribe
Canada
826 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2011 : 01:32:13
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quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker
I was never among the group who thought the novels were holding back the"game"...but now with sometime to think about it. I think the game held back the novels!
What would be the drawbacks of allowing novels to be set in any time period and even possibly not be considered canon?
Why would I ask this question? Or more to the point why do I care?
I recently finished Shadowbane. A great new book set in what I guess is "the 4e realms".....enjoyable all the way around.....interesting new characters, even a thing or two I didn't love ( the plague with zombie- like symptoms)....and I thought how just like all of his prior realms work....Erik had crafted character I cared about. Characters whose stories I need to be told. Kalen and Myrin...I assume we will see their story unfold....but what happens if we jump another 100 years?
I was happy that Fox at Twilght somehow survived , but can't help but think what happened to her in that 100 years? I bet that is an hell of a story. How about Elminster, Storm, Alussair and Vangerdahast. I'm glad there still around, but how did they get here? So many stories left unfinished.
I'm greedy....I want them all, and more! If Elaine had an Epiphany and solved the Reclamation conundrum tomorrow....is there a place for something that "dated" compared to the rest of the novel line... Maybe but probably not. Or what if Paul S Kemp awoke with a great idea for a story about Cale from before his time with the Uskevren family, that explained much about his choices ?would there be room for it!? Or for a story that glimpses a distant , possible future? I'm not saying What Worcester would or would not do in such situations...just speculating based on the past.
I'd just like to see this constraint of time removed, thus unshackling our realms authors ( truly the most talented group we have ever bad writing about the realms)....I feel the realms has a rich, vibrant yet unknown history, just waiting to be shared.
I am very with you on this. Particularly since I really want reclamation. I am hoping for some closure in "The serpents daughter", but I nearly cried when i heard the last book was canceled. |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2011 : 04:36:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I've always felt that one of the strenths of the Realms was the way novels moved the timeline.
Full agreement. Nothing is more boring than a stagnant setting. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2011 : 05:37:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
It's part of why I lost interest in Dragonlance. The Sage will disagree with me on this point, but after the first five trilogies of novels, I felt that only Weis and Hickman were moving the setting forward, and that everyone else went either sideways or backwards. And because of that, I drifted away from Krynn and into the Realms.
I agree, in part, that the earliest trilogies certainly conveyed this focus on the core storyline of the Heroes of the Lance. But it was only with the coming of the Fifth Age material, that other new and exciting characters, began to carry on the fiction with explorations into new chapters of Krynnish history. That's when the setting started moving forward. And, it's largely where it "finished" when the last DL novels were released in 2009/2010.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
8031 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2011 : 06:14:49
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The Realms are supposed to be a dynamic, vibrant setting. Although I admit it tends to focus on epic-godly NPCs (and gods themselves) rather than the little people and plays out something like an endless soap opera constantly churning up newer and ever more outlandish variations of the same tired old storylines. Still, better than a stagnant setting like Star Trek, where each installment is essentially interchangeable with any other because they all begin and end in the same vague place.
I would actually like to see more short stories, fewer trilogy-sagas. And not with an endless focus on whatever the current Realms edition might be, but on exotic lands and times. Realms canon has already established millennia of history, lost empires, ancient peoples and nations come and gone. I'd much rather read stories set in Chancelgaunt in the Year of the Tusk, or the emergence of Tyranthraxus in the Moonsea region, or ancient pyramid-building Mulhorandi, or the arrival of the first elven armada on Toril, or the founding of Baldur's Gate, or some tales about Netheril, or whatever ... than read more sordid details about the adventures (and inevitable meeting with Elminster) of yet another semi-spoiled "special" minor nobleman from Cormyr. The world is vast and spans both time and space, it seems a shame that such a narrow window has been painted on the landscape for all of us to look through. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Artemas Entreri
Great Reader
USA
3131 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2011 : 13:58:17
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| I would love it if Realms books from other time periods were released in conjunction with the current timeline. Lets spice things up a bit ;) |
Some people have a way with words, and other people...oh, uh, not have way. -Steve Martin
Amazon "KindleUnlimited" Free Trial: http://amzn.to/2AJ4yD2
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Seravin
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1303 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2011 : 14:18:54
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I love reading books set before the Spell Plague....well...and I hate the 4th edition vividly.
More series like the Knights of Myth Drannor Swords of series, set back prior to the current time lore would make me happy! Well, the series actually wasn't as good as I hoped but I loved the setting, pre-Avatar crisis Cormyr was fun to read about.
Also what Ayrik said is very good, I agree with that. There are so many places in the realms to read about and times and lore that would be fascinating.
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ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author
2396 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2011 : 14:58:30
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I'm a former history teacher. I still read a lot of history and I enjoy a well-written historical novel.
Take, for example, C.S. Harris's St. Cyr mystery series, set in Regency England. Now, I know that the characters in these novels would, if they were real people, be long dead. I know the outcome of the war with Napolean, the fate of the apparently precarious Hanover dynasty. This knowledge in no way impedes my enjoyment of a well-told tale. I enjoy spending time with the characters. I want to know what happens to THEM. And sometimes I enjoy reading stories set in a time and place that interests me, be that medieval Russia or 16th century Scotland or circa-1375 Realms. Historical fiction seldom changes the course of history, but history is complex enough to contain a story that is new and surprising despite the constraints of "known fact."
It is my opinion that a Realms novel does not NEED to move the setting forward in order to be an interesting, satisying reading experience. If the characters are compelling, the desire to know their fate is reason enough to turn the pages. Even if the course of events is known--say, the outcome of the Crown Wars--I believe there are readers who would enjoy reading how these events unfolded. An epic trilogy set during the Crown Wars with a sprawling cast of new characters? As a writer, I'd take that on in a heartbeat. As a reader, I'd buy that book (assuming someone else wrote it) in hardcover, on the day it was released.
The Star Wars extended universe is proof that readers enjoy experiencing the setting in many different eras; in fact, some people prefer the Old Republic. It doesn't seem to confuse readers who jump from an adult Jaina Solo to a youthful Anakin Skywalker, or for that matter to Jedi and Sith who lived thousands of years before. I submit that Realms readers are at least as capable of holding a timeline in mind as Star Wars fans. |
Edited by - ElaineCunningham on 25 Oct 2011 15:20:44 |
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Farrel
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
239 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2011 : 15:23:53
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quote:
Originally posted by ElaineCunningham
It is my opinion that a Realms novel does not NEED to move the setting forward in order to be an interesting, satisying reading experience. If the characters are compelling, the desire to know their fate is reason enough to turn the pages. Even if the course of events is known--say, the outcome of the Crown Wars--I believe there are readers who would enjoy reading how these events unfolded. An epic trilogy set during the Crown Wars with a sprawling cast of new characters?
As a reader, I'd buy that book (assuming Elaine wrote it) in hardcover, on the day it was released.
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Richard Lee Byers
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
1814 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2011 : 15:30:23
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Ayrik: You want exotic lands and times. As to the former, some of us novelists do try to explore parts of the Realms that the fiction hasn't visited much before. But if readers stick with Ed and Bob's stuff and don't give the rest of us a try, they come away with the impression that the fiction line only focuses on the parts of the Realms that Ed and Bob write about.
As far as the exotic times are concerned, I agree. I would like to see that, too. Part of the reason we don't may be that the publisher is only going to put out so many FR novels per year. Thus, someone has decided that the relatively few books that do come out ought to provide a high level of support for the current game products. That, after all, is, from a marketing standpoint, the point of multiple products derived from the same intellectual property. There's supposed to be a marketing synergy among them.
I completely agree with Elaine that novels don't need to move the setting forward to be good. I like to think that my own FR books that fall into this category are worth reading. But they sure as heck don't sell as well as the epic trilogies where the fate of kingdoms or maybe even the whole world hangs in the balance. If my own experience can be generalized (and I suspect it can at least to some degree), that's what the general FR readership gets excited about even if it's not what most of those who visit Candlekeep would prefer.
And I agree with Ayrik that there need to be at least occasional stories where something big happens and there's something significant changes. Otherwise, the imaginary universe starts to feel stale and dull. |
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ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author
2396 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2011 : 15:35:36
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quote:
[I like to think that my own FR books that fall into this category are worth reading. But they sure as heck don't sell as well as the epic trilogies where the fate of kingdoms or maybe even the whole world hangs in the balance. If my own experience can be generalized (and I suspect it can at least to some degree), that's what the general FR readership gets excited about even if it's not what most of those who visit Candlekeep would prefer.
True. I've long noticed that what the general readership wants and what the hard-core fans say they'd like to see are not always one and the same. For everyone who bemoans Realms-Shaking Events, there are many who only see "fate of the world" issues as meaningful stakes. |
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ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author
2396 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2011 : 15:41:20
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quote:
[i]As far as the exotic times are concerned, I agree. I would like to see that, too. Part of the reason we don't may be that the publisher is only going to put out so many FR novels per year. Thus, someone has decided that the relatively few books that do come out ought to provide a high level of support for the current game products. That, after all, is, from a marketing standpoint, the point of multiple products derived from the same intellectual property. There's supposed to be a marketing synergy among them.
That's a very clear, concise description fo what has long been stated policy. I wonder, though, if this will change somewhat, now that WotC is bringing more and more of the old product out in digital format. Having new content set in a favorite era, or featuring favorite characters, could provide a marker pointing back to new-to-ebook releases, both games and novels. Yes, this does dilute the market considerably, but it also acknowledges the reality of long-tail publishing and niche audiences. |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2011 : 16:00:26
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quote:
Originally posted by ElaineCunningham
quote:
[I like to think that my own FR books that fall into this category are worth reading. But they sure as heck don't sell as well as the epic trilogies where the fate of kingdoms or maybe even the whole world hangs in the balance. If my own experience can be generalized (and I suspect it can at least to some degree), that's what the general FR readership gets excited about even if it's not what most of those who visit Candlekeep would prefer.
True. I've long noticed that what the general readership wants and what the hard-core fans say they'd like to see are not always one and the same. For everyone who bemoans Realms-Shaking Events, there are many who only see "fate of the world" issues as meaningful stakes.
Agreed. Though not strictly true in all situations, at times it is more exciting to read a piece of literature where what's at stake is bigger than an individual's life. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Seravin
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1303 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2011 : 16:06:51
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Thanks for chiming in your thoughts, Richard and Elaine. Candlekeep is such an amazing forum and we are all grateful to have you guys giving your input.
I like a novel to have a threat of a "Realms-Shaking Event" then thwarted by a group of adventurers (from a low level group all the way up to a Chosen), but I don't want actual Realms Shaking very often (once every 10 years?). Something thusly "shaken" may be very dear to another hardcore fan of the Realms--like Thay or Sembia or Halruaa, and I wouldn't want that person to be upset or turn away from the setting when an area dramtically changes or vanishes or worst of all is retconned.
I never really understand the threat of the Realms growing "stale and dull" that Richard alluded to, that's never ever entered my mind. A particular novel might seem boring and there are areas of the Realms I don't care to learn more (eg Maztica bored me), but as a whole there's so much rich history and detail and places to learn about it could never be dull for me.
Well--unless an area I learned about and enjoyed was destroyed or majorly retconned, then I'd just stop buying the new products and pretend the change never happened. |
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Artemas Entreri
Great Reader
USA
3131 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2011 : 16:10:11
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quote:
Originally posted by Seravin
Thanks for chiming in your thoughts, Richard and Elaine. Candlekeep is such an amazing forum and we are all grateful to have you guys giving your input.
Well--unless an area I learned about and enjoyed was destroyed or majorly retconned, then I'd just stop buying the new products and pretend the change never happened.
Yep, this is exactly what i do. |
Some people have a way with words, and other people...oh, uh, not have way. -Steve Martin
Amazon "KindleUnlimited" Free Trial: http://amzn.to/2AJ4yD2
Try Audible and Get 2 Free Audio Books! https://amzn.to/2IgBede |
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3567 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2011 : 16:38:12
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quote:
Originally posted by ElaineCunningham
I'm a former history teacher. I still read a lot of history and I enjoy a well-written historical novel.
Take, for example, C.S. Harris's St. Cyr mystery series, set in Regency England. Now, I know that the characters in these novels would, if they were real people, be long dead. I know the outcome of the war with Napolean, the fate of the apparently precarious Hanover dynasty. This knowledge in no way impedes my enjoyment of a well-told tale. I enjoy spending time with the characters. I want to know what happens to THEM. And sometimes I enjoy reading stories set in a time and place that interests me, be that medieval Russia or 16th century Scotland or circa-1375 Realms. Historical fiction seldom changes the course of history, but history is complex enough to contain a story that is new and surprising despite the constraints of "known fact."
It is my opinion that a Realms novel does not NEED to move the setting forward in order to be an interesting, satisying reading experience. If the characters are compelling, the desire to know their fate is reason enough to turn the pages. Even if the course of events is known--say, the outcome of the Crown Wars--I believe there are readers who would enjoy reading how these events unfolded. An epic trilogy set during the Crown Wars with a sprawling cast of new characters? As a writer, I'd take that on in a heartbeat. As a reader, I'd buy that book (assuming someone else wrote it) in hardcover, on the day it was released.
The Star Wars extended universe is proof that readers enjoy experiencing the setting in many different eras; in fact, some people prefer the Old Republic. It doesn't seem to confuse readers who jump from an adult Jaina Solo to a youthful Anakin Skywalker, or for that matter to Jedi and Sith who lived thousands of years before. I submit that Realms readers are at least as capable of holding a timeline in mind as Star Wars fans.
That's very much what I was trying to say.
I'm more than ok, if the game mechanics don't match 100% with the book. After , novels should be extraordinary tales, and not everything has to be calculated to fit a system does it? I would guess the number of times a realms play session , as played by Ed and his group , is bogged down by checking and re-checking against a system vs. Letting a story unfold would be a low ratio indeed. I think some can lose the narrative of a great tale, if one looks to pour it into a pre-formed system to find where it lacks. |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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Edited by - The Red Walker on 25 Oct 2011 18:25:44 |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2011 : 18:44:41
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On the RSE point, I have now written five FR novels (my fourth, SHADOWBANE, came out this month, my fifth next year), and NONE OF THEM have featured RSEs. They haven't driven the setting's date as a matter of content--I could have set them at any time, being in the "current year" was mostly a question of marketing.
My Shadowbane series will, I think, start moving some events, but I anticipate keeping things on the same personal scale I've used so far.
I wonder if I was writing RSEs, would my novels sell better? I'm hardly as established as Elaine or RLB, so obviously I won't turn over their numbers, but it's an interesting question. (And in the interest of full disclosure, I do sell fairly well at my level, and for that I thank you!)
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2011 : 19:13:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
I wonder if I was writing RSEs, would my novels sell better? I'm hardly as established as Elaine or RLB, so obviously I won't turn over their numbers, but it's an interesting question. (And in the interest of full disclosure, I do sell fairly well at my level, and for that I thank you!)
Cheers
Perhaps. RSE-themed novels do tend to sell than others. Fans sometimes hate what's in them, specially if their favorite realm or characters are butchered, but they would still BUY them. It reminds me of The Return of the Archwizards. I know a number of people who disliked it, including one Mod. But some [including yours truly] did love it, despite the many not so favorable changes it brought to the setting. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
8031 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2011 : 19:26:07
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Wow, thanx for your input RLB, EC, ESdB, some interesting insights ... booksales all boil down to product marketing. It's obvious that the Realms are the flagship setting for D&D, so FR novel content and D&D gaming mechanics will always be deeply entwined, two different markets with a lot of natural affinity and overlap.
Since you apparently don't disagree with my desire to see collections of short stories distanced from the usual setting frame ... perhaps you could put in a good word to your evil corporate brand manager bosses, pitch the idea of some kind of Lost Realms storybook, eh? Explore some forgotten corners of the Forgotten Realms? Just hoping and nudging, with shameless transparency. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36965 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2011 : 19:28:57
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quote:
Originally posted by ElaineCunningham
quote:
[I like to think that my own FR books that fall into this category are worth reading. But they sure as heck don't sell as well as the epic trilogies where the fate of kingdoms or maybe even the whole world hangs in the balance. If my own experience can be generalized (and I suspect it can at least to some degree), that's what the general FR readership gets excited about even if it's not what most of those who visit Candlekeep would prefer.
True. I've long noticed that what the general readership wants and what the hard-core fans say they'd like to see are not always one and the same. For everyone who bemoans Realms-Shaking Events, there are many who only see "fate of the world" issues as meaningful stakes.
I'm one who wants fiction to move the setting forward and who bemoans RSEs... When I say I want the setting to move forward, it doesn't have to be something major. I've long commented that some of my favorite Realms stories are the ones that are smaller in scope, such as Azure Bonds or your own Elfshadow.
Azure Bonds does involve some changes to the Realms, but in my mind, they're all small-scale: a partial road is carved in a forest, a forgotten deity blows up, and part of a single city gets squashed by the corpse of a dragon. Those things are not, to me, RSEs.
And in Elfshadow, the impact on the greater Realms was that we lost some good guys and some bad guys, and a portal was moved. Again, nothing overly large in scope.
But those stories are still ideal to me, because they show things happening in (what was then) the here and now of the setting. No major changes, no threats to all of existence, no toppling the Dark Lord before he took over everything, but there were still things happening. That, in my mind, is moving the setting forward: giving us current stories, rather large or small, showing us that things change in the Realms. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2011 : 19:39:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
But those stories are still ideal to me, because they show things happening in (what was then) the here and now of the setting. No major changes, no threats to all of existence, no toppling the Dark Lord before he took over everything, but there were still things happening. That, in my mind, is moving the setting forward: giving us current stories, rather large or small, showing us that things change in the Realms.
Yep. That's what I try to write.
I call that "development," as opposed to "revolution." There is of course room for both in the Realms, as well there should be.
(And I'm not saying I'll never write a "revolution" novel. You never know.)
Cheers
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Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Artemas Entreri
Great Reader
USA
3131 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2011 : 19:39:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by ElaineCunningham
quote:
[I like to think that my own FR books that fall into this category are worth reading. But they sure as heck don't sell as well as the epic trilogies where the fate of kingdoms or maybe even the whole world hangs in the balance. If my own experience can be generalized (and I suspect it can at least to some degree), that's what the general FR readership gets excited about even if it's not what most of those who visit Candlekeep would prefer.
True. I've long noticed that what the general readership wants and what the hard-core fans say they'd like to see are not always one and the same. For everyone who bemoans Realms-Shaking Events, there are many who only see "fate of the world" issues as meaningful stakes.
I'm one who wants fiction to move the setting forward and who bemoans RSEs... When I say I want the setting to move forward, it doesn't have to be something major. I've long commented that some of my favorite Realms stories are the ones that are smaller in scope, such as Azure Bonds or your own Elfshadow.
Azure Bonds does involve some changes to the Realms, but in my mind, they're all small-scale: a partial road is carved in a forest, a forgotten deity blows up, and part of a single city gets squashed by the corpse of a dragon. Those things are not, to me, RSEs.
And in Elfshadow, the impact on the greater Realms was that we lost some good guys and some bad guys, and a portal was moved. Again, nothing overly large in scope.
But those stories are still ideal to me, because they show things happening in (what was then) the here and now of the setting. No major changes, no threats to all of existence, no toppling the Dark Lord before he took over everything, but there were still things happening. That, in my mind, is moving the setting forward: giving us current stories, rather large or small, showing us that things change in the Realms.
I am with you in that some of my favorite Realms stories/trilogies are on the smaller scale. The last 2 Realms trilogies I read had "end of the world" scenarios. Cool ideas and great books, but i would prefer them to be few and far between. |
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althen artren
Senior Scribe
USA
780 Posts |
Posted - 26 Oct 2011 : 23:55:30
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I agree with Elaine, but I also must throw in the point
that whats happens in the novels must mostly square with
current and prepublised lore.
Take Blackstaff, lots of High Magic rituals have the
capstone of the casters death. Now SES could have
come up with an alternative to seal the ritual, but
he squared with what he previously wrote.
I like that, it makes having advanced knowledge of
the setting more rewarding. |
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Marc
Senior Scribe
662 Posts |
Posted - 27 Oct 2011 : 08:58:05
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| I've no problem with the timelines of novels or if they are canon. Simply they are canon in my FR games if they are good. Set in whatever year I want to use the story. |
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Caolin
Senior Scribe
769 Posts |
Posted - 28 Oct 2011 : 00:49:53
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quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker
I was never among the group who thought the novels were holding back the"game"...but now with sometime to think about it. I think the game held back the novels!
First off, I totally agree. I've long been frustrated with the meddling that both the novels and game material do with each other. But as mainly a novel reader, I see the affect that constantly shifting game rules have on how novels are written. It always feels like the new shiny parts of each new addition are shoe horned into every story. I mean, I understand why warlocks are more prevalent in the 4E Realms and that there is possibly a meta theme going on with them. But seriously, there has been one in just about every 4E novel I have read so far. So far it seems like there are still mages a plenty and it also seems that magic isn't that hard a thing to practice in post-Spellplague Realms. So that kind of kills the whole idea of why there are so many warlocks. I'd like at least one novel to address this issue rather then just shoehorning the class into every story.
Ugh, sorry to focus on warlocks like that. It's just an example of the things that frustrate me in novels. I also don't like the cookie jar of evil approach being taken with the whole Neverwinter area. To me it makes no sense for Thay and the Abolethic Sovereignty to be operating thousands of mile from their own region. I need to stop, I can feel another rant coming on.
Back to the main topic. Elaine is correct that Star Wars gets along just fine by having multiple novel timelines. I actually think that it thrives due to this. If you don't like what is going on with Luke Skywalker and crew, well go read about Anakin and Obi-Wan. Or go find out what happened 5000 years before them. I think if WoTC opens up the Realms timeline it could expand its reader base. With the coming of digital novels, the cost of doing this shouldn't be what it once was. |
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Why can't novels be independent of game timeline?
