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The Masked Mage
Great Reader
USA
2420 Posts |
 Posted - 12 Mar 2013 : 08:06:50
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I have played in many "editions." Basic D&D, DragonQuest, 1st, Battlesystem, & 2nd. The best of these, in my book was second, though I always allowed for 1st Ed. classes like cavalier to be selected. I think the "simplification" done in 3rd edition made things much more complicated - I still don't get most of it. To be fair to 4th edition - I never looked at the rules because reading through the 4th Ed. books very quickly made me decide I wanted nothing to do with any of the changes they were making.
As far as FR goes, I'd say there are definite differences between editions. 4th we know already so no further comment there. 3rd edition was a grand effort by a group of writers to fill in all the mysteries created by the previous editions. This drove me crazy, but some people liked it so to each his own. 2nd more clearly defined rules in its publication than 1st but both were great at creating a broad, wide open world with infinite possibility. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36996 Posts |
Posted - 12 Mar 2013 : 10:08:07
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quote:
Originally posted by diogrigor
Now 4E is another matter. It's just the merchandise that WotC (aka HASBRO) wanted to sell. It has nothing to do with role-playing or d&d. It's the "how can we make the product appeal to 10-year olds" idea. I know there are experienced players/ DMs who are fans of 4E. I don't blame them. I just think they haven't seen the point behind all that yet. (Warforged? Really? In d&d? How about space marines and dark eldars? I like 40K too, but it's another story alltogether!)
Warforged had nothing to do with 4E. They were introduced in 3E.
As pointed out before, the idea of free-willed sentient constructs is an old one, and we've had individual examples of them in the Realms at least since 2E. Two of the three that I can immediately name come from Ed's pen. |
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diogrigor
Acolyte
21 Posts |
Posted - 12 Mar 2013 : 11:33:07
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It seems that I hit a soft spot here...
As I already said, I write as I feel, without an intention to insult anyone.
However, I insist on my opinion on 4E. It's all about selling the merchandise and nothing more. D&D shouldn't be for everyone. Just for those that actually want to have fun, in a heroic setting, through role-playing and the occasional heroic warfare. Not for every kid grabbing a +4 vorpal flaiming burst two-handed and hacking at the balor. As I said before, D&D is not Diablo in my humble opinion.
Anyway, I'm not going to argue anymore about the matter. Just keep playing whatever set/ edition makes you feel good guys. As long as we keep conversing on FR lore I'm happy |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36996 Posts |
Posted - 12 Mar 2013 : 16:27:45
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quote:
Originally posted by diogrigor
It seems that I hit a soft spot here...
As I already said, I write as I feel, without an intention to insult anyone.
However, I insist on my opinion on 4E. It's all about selling the merchandise and nothing more. D&D shouldn't be for everyone. Just for those that actually want to have fun, in a heroic setting, through role-playing and the occasional heroic warfare. Not for every kid grabbing a +4 vorpal flaiming burst two-handed and hacking at the balor. As I said before, D&D is not Diablo in my humble opinion.
Anyway, I'm not going to argue anymore about the matter. Just keep playing whatever set/ edition makes you feel good guys. As long as we keep conversing on FR lore I'm happy
Oh, I'm not arguing about the 4E ruleset; I am most against it.
I'm just saying that warforged were not a part of 4E, and that free-willed, sentient constructs were written into FR lore back in 2E, by Ed Greenwood himself.
I don't like 4E, but at the same time, I prefer to see credit given where credit is due. And when it comes to warforged, credit does not go to 4E. And free-willed, sentient constructs were not new when Eber-whatsit intro'ed the warforged, either. |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4495 Posts |
Posted - 12 Mar 2013 : 17:27:49
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quote:
Originally posted by diogrigor
It seems that I hit a soft spot here...
As I already said, I write as I feel, without an intention to insult anyone.
No insult was taken and I've heard worse about 4E from others, so not really a problem there either.
quote:
Originally posted by diogrigor
However, I insist on my opinion on 4E. It's all about selling the merchandise and nothing more.
Well it's hard to say otherwise since it's a company selling a product. I think any company wants their stuff to sell and WotC had a good model going, creating a game and making products that support that game (miniatures, dungeon tiles, independant board games that tie into the main product, power cards, etc.). Perhaps they're products that don't cater to everyone and perhaps some of those products don't turn into a huge profit, but I'll give them credit for trying.
As for only selling a product and nothing more.....what more is there for a company? I'm trying to understand where your coming from but I'm failing to grasp it. Mayhap it's the product content and it's strong bent towards the mechanics and game side of D&D and not as much of the setting, story, or flavor. That's debatable and I can see that perspective to a point. I've always been more of a "make stuff up" sorta guy so the flavor and fluff aspects of D&D only intrigued me minimally. To each there own though .
quote:
Originally posted by diogrigor
D&D shouldn't be for everyone.
How is the game supposed to flourish with an idea like this?
quote:
Originally posted by diogrigor
Just for those that actually want to have fun, in a heroic setting, through role-playing and the occasional heroic warfare. Not for every kid grabbing a +4 vorpal flaiming burst two-handed and hacking at the balor. As I said before, D&D is not Diablo in my humble opinion.
D&D, IMO, should be a game for all types of people to engage in. Whether it be super story-oriented, riddled with intrigue and non-combative elements being center piece, combat taking a backseat and only coming up every once in a while TO people who just like to go out and kill stuff, take their items, and sell it. The rules of the game, if they're good, can incorporate both play styles. One style isn't better or worse than the other.
I'll agree that 4E took the combat side of the game to new heights while leaving much in the way of non-combative or intrigue or whatever almost non-existant but I think their belief was "You dont need rules to roleplay" and I very much agree with that. Should the books have talked about it more? Sure, I agree there. But for me, I want rules in my gaming supplements and ways of interacting with the game via mechanics. The roleplay part is the easiest to include beause it's the least intrusive element of the game. I can roleplay without mechanics perfectly fine (and have done a few games of such) but mechanics needs designers and math and parts I'm not entirely good with.
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Caladan Brood
Senior Scribe
Norway
410 Posts |
Posted - 12 Mar 2013 : 19:50:30
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quote:
touchy feely one world Bob Marley Kumbayah bed wetting political correctness
I lol'd :D |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4266 Posts |
Posted - 12 Mar 2013 : 20:18:05
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quote:
Originally posted by Entreri3478
quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
I am totally a AD&D "guy"...2e AD&D is good; but they removed some elements of the game that I really liked (Assassins being one, and old school Bards too!).
2e got magic "better" in that it unified Arcane Magic...but I still prefer the 1e method of open ended progression of spells (yes, fireball should not stop at 10d6 in my games!).
Having said that, I like how 3.x looks at skills also...
Over all, I'm a hybrid of 1e/2e/3.x
2E definitely had assassin kits for rogues and fighters too IIRC. Assassins were always my favorite characters to play.
Kits came some time after the game was published...so going from having rules for my assassin to it not even being a class was a bump for me that I never let go of. 
The kits helped make things very adaptable though, very true. They did not come as part of the Player's Handbook though, and core is what is going to decide a game for most folks. I won't go into my friends anger over the changes to Rangers! 
EDIT: OH! And my friend with the Fighter/Thief/Bard was pissed when suddenly Bards were "mini-wizards" with little or no ties to druids! |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
Edited by - Dalor Darden on 12 Mar 2013 20:24:26 |
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diogrigor
Acolyte
21 Posts |
Posted - 12 Mar 2013 : 20:48:16
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As I said above, I'm not going to argue anymore.
Diffan
just two remarks: I would prefer that you didn't isolate a sentence from my argument and draw conclusions.
And as from where I'm coming, I come from a land where profit is not ABOVE everything else.
thanks for talking
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36996 Posts |
Posted - 12 Mar 2013 : 21:39:58
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quote:
Originally posted by diogrigor
As I said above, I'm not going to argue anymore.
Diffan
just two remarks: I would prefer that you didn't isolate a sentence from my argument and draw conclusions.
And as from where I'm coming, I come from a land where profit is not ABOVE everything else.
thanks for talking
I think we can do without slams on people's nations.  |
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2nd edition forever
