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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
 Posted - 02 Oct 2011 : 15:28:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
The Stormwind Fallacy (as explained in Tempest Stormwind's own words) asserts that generalizations cannot be assumed to be valid in every circumstance, yet is self-contradictory in that it asserts that the generalizations behind the Fallacy itself are exempt from this argument as it applies to all players.
Yes, and in practice it gets invoked as if roleplaying and min/maxing not being mutually exclusive (fact) means they never correlate negatively so the latter is always perfectly fine, thank you (obviously false). |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4441 Posts |
Posted - 02 Oct 2011 : 20:39:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Marc
As the DM at the moment I allow a ''min-maxing'' during the character creation as a part of the PC's history. but our rules are different, everything afterwards has to be learned through living and roleplaying. It's chaotic like life, you can set you goal to learn a particular spell or feat but who knows what will happen.
To me though, this style puts too much immersion into game mechanics where I've never felt there needed any. Unless you have resonable tips or specific feats this style is designed for (such as Craft Contingent Spell) then I can't see how roleplaying a certain way will give me access to something like the Power Attack feat. Sure it's fun to describe how you attack "with a great, heavy swing" but as a means to fullfill a requiremtn for a feat (in addition to mechanical requirements)? |
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Imp
Learned Scribe
231 Posts |
Posted - 05 Oct 2011 : 01:13:39
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| I like optimizing. It lets me contribute to the game and have fun instead of waiting until the rest of players deal with the encounter. |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
Posted - 05 Oct 2011 : 01:42:14
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| I'm sort of a balanced/story RP kind of girl. I love to come up with the concepts of my PC's and NPC's FIRST- mostly because my HB campaign world is not JUST for gaming- I write in it, too! So most of my PC's and NPC's start first as characters in a story before they ever see a charasheet. Take my bard Lothir. A drow bard/dervish/Spelldancer. Or gestalt bard/swashbuckler/dervish depending on the version I'm running. (Actually, I've created a "battledancer" full class just for him.) He started as a plot-hook to introduce my evil-nasty-be-otch NPC Morganna (his half-sister) into a game. I used him as a character in a story involving my half-gold dragon/Moon elf twins Vala and Palax, and he later grew into a Pc in his own right. Even Palax was a rule-breaker when I first created him- a half dragon Paladin/bard back in 2nd ed when palis were a human-only class, and half-dragons were gold, silver, or bronze ONLY! (He's gold, obviously, but back then, you could not have a non-human pali, and bards were not on the list of half-dragon classes...) |
The Goddess is alive, and magic is afoot.
"Where Science ends, Magic begins" -Spiral, Uncanny X-Men #491
"You idiots! You've captured their STUNT doubles!" -Spaceballs
Lothir's character background/stats: http://forum.candlekeep.com/pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=5469
My stories:
http://z3.invisionfree.com/Mickeys_Comic_Tavern/index.php?showforum=188
Lothir, courtesy of Sylinde (Deviant Art)/Luaxena (Chosen of Eilistraee)
http://sylinde.deviantart.com/#/d2z6e4u |
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Eldacar
Senior Scribe
438 Posts |
Posted - 05 Oct 2011 : 10:49:37
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I have a tendency to optimise somewhat. It's just a habit I have of searching out ways to improve my character. However, I see a difference between optimising and min-maxing. In other words, a difference between practical optimisation and theoretical optimisation.
The former is just about taking the best class(es) to fit a certain character concept and ensure you don't unnecessarily gimp yourself (e.g. Rule One: Thou Shalt Not Give Up Caster Levels).
The latter is Pun-Pun and everything leading up to it. |
"The Wild Mages I have met exhibit a startling disregard for common sense, and are often meddling with powers far beyond their own control." ~Volo
"Not unlike a certain travelogue author with whom I am unfortunately acquainted." ~Elminster |
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Gouf
Seeker
USA
75 Posts |
Posted - 05 Oct 2011 : 15:23:12
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I generally come up with a character concept, then hope use the dice rolls to match the concept.
We still play 2nd ed. So the closest I've come to min/maxing was putting a higher dice roll in Int for a non-mage just to get the additional non-weapon prof slot. |
"Why is the torch burning blue?" |
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Marc
Senior Scribe
658 Posts |
Posted - 05 Oct 2011 : 18:36:43
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quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
quote:
Originally posted by Marc
As the DM at the moment I allow a ''min-maxing'' during the character creation as a part of the PC's history. but our rules are different, everything afterwards has to be learned through living and roleplaying. It's chaotic like life, you can set you goal to learn a particular spell or feat but who knows what will happen.
To me though, this style puts too much immersion into game mechanics where I've never felt there needed any. Unless you have resonable tips or specific feats this style is designed for (such as Craft Contingent Spell) then I can't see how roleplaying a certain way will give me access to something like the Power Attack feat. Sure it's fun to describe how you attack "with a great, heavy swing" but as a means to fullfill a requiremtn for a feat (in addition to mechanical requirements)?
With feats and class features I plan with the player in advance, outside of the game. That doesn't mean they'll get power attack every time, there are always obstacles. Feat requirements that don't make sense and are a waste of space are usually ignored. Xp progression is very slow, but I give a lot more feats per ''level''. Skills don't have a cap per level, it's all about training and education. Commoners are a higher level. The system would not work in simple dungeon crawl campaigns, but in the ones like Kingmaker that last for decades it is ideal. |
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althen artren
Senior Scribe
USA
780 Posts |
Posted - 05 Oct 2011 : 21:34:16
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I do some, but in the face of a DM who would
squish you if you made one mistake, you kind
of half to.
I played for the first time in several years this weekend
under my high school DM, and I all ready have a higher level
character wanting to kill me, and my
character (Mystic Theurge by the way Therise  ) holds what appears to be a greater artifact which seems
to be crucial to one of more story lines that seems to
revolve all around dragons.  I appear to be behind the  |
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Imp
Learned Scribe
231 Posts |
Posted - 06 Oct 2011 : 14:09:22
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quote:
The latter is Pun-Pun and everything leading up to it.
Nope. That's munchkining. Min/maxing, or Powergaming is about making a strong PLAYABLE character, not TO. |
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Therise
Master of Realmslore
1272 Posts |
Posted - 06 Oct 2011 : 16:20:02
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quote:
Originally posted by althen artren
I do some, but in the face of a DM who would
squish you if you made one mistake, you kind
of half to.
I played for the first time in several years this weekend
under my high school DM, and I all ready have a higher level
character wanting to kill me, and my
character (Mystic Theurge by the way Therise ) holds what appears to be a greater artifact which seems
to be crucial to one of more story lines that seems to
revolve all around dragons. I appear to be behind the
Thematically, I think Mystic Theurges are amazingly cool ideas. 
But I'd quickly hide behind the nearest meat-shield. I mean fighter.
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Female, 40-year DM of a homebrew-evolved 1E Realms, including a few added tidbits of 2E and 3E lore; played originally in AD&D, then in Rolemaster. Be a DM for your kids and grandkids, gaming is excellent for families! |
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althen artren
Senior Scribe
USA
780 Posts |
Posted - 07 Oct 2011 : 00:27:00
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I would except he's not strong enough to last more
than 3 or more rounds. |
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WizardsHerb
Acolyte
United Kingdom
23 Posts |
Posted - 07 Oct 2011 : 00:46:18
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I've found room for both min-maxing and more focused roleplaying in TTRPGs, as long as everyone in the group is thinking along the same lines.
Unfortunately, the games I've played are few, but in those I've had I've had more fun (and the group's seemed to have more fun) when everyone has the same idea in mind. Rollplaying or roleplaying.
The worst games I've played have involved one or two players with massive egos who want everything to go their way, and the best, whether min-maxing and jumping from one fight to the next or focused on the story and roleplay, have involved everyone working together to let the whole group have fun and shine. |
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Optimizing, min-maxing, do we FR fans do it?
