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LadyAraushnee
Acolyte
3 Posts |
 Posted - 10 Sep 2011 : 04:57:40
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I have been looking all of the the web for where this spelling of Lolth comes from: "Loethe"?
I have seen it listed as an alternate spelling of Lolth and Lloth.
I have seen those spellings in novels, but I cannot find any information as to the origin to Loethe.
As far as I can tell, it is just listed on sites as an alternate spelling, which could mean some random person made it up. I really would like to know if this is a correct spelling from any d&d realm or is it was randomly made up.
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Daviot
Senior Scribe
USA
372 Posts |
Posted - 10 Sep 2011 : 05:04:53
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First off, a warm welcome to the 'Keep, Lady Araushnee. 
I've not seen "Loethe" before, and if it's not a random invention, it might be from a foreign translation where "Löthe" would be easier for a native speaker to pronounce/seem less odd than "Lolth", but that's pure speculation on my part.
Any info, fellow scribes? |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 10 Sep 2011 : 05:31:16
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AFAIK, there are only two "official" spellings for name of the Spider Queen: Lolth and Lloth. So that "Loethe" must either be fan-made or a foreign translation, [or a simple misspelling by a fan who was in a hurry, bad at spelling, or both]. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
Posted - 10 Sep 2011 : 05:44:25
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| I always wondered if it was a variation of "Lilith". I do not think that I have ever seen any official etymology of fro the name though. |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 10 Sep 2011 : 09:24:31
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Lloth and drow appeared in several 1E modules, but her name was changed to Lolth when finally published a few years later in the Fiend Folio (under the Drow entry) and in Deities & Demigods; subsequent materials consistently preferred the Lolth spelling, and Lloth seems to have entirely disappeared somewhere within 2E. Some people treat Lloth as her name in the drow language, as stated in the earliest introductory modules.
I've never seen other spellings of her name; Loethe and Löthe might be pseudo-Lolths designed to circumvent WotC legal territory. Combining her tale with Lilith would interesting but I think not easily done; serpents and spiders carry different symbolism, plus of course Lloth's Seldarine origins are clearly inviolate. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Thelonius
Senior Scribe
Spain
730 Posts |
Posted - 10 Sep 2011 : 15:19:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
Lloth and drow appeared in several 1E modules, but her name was changed to Lolth when finally published a few years later in the Fiend Folio (under the Drow entry) and in Deities & Demigods; subsequent materials consistently preferred the Lolth spelling, and Lloth seems to have entirely disappeared somewhere within 2E. Some people treat Lloth as her name in the drow language, as stated in the earliest introductory modules.
I've never seen other spellings of her name; Loethe and Löthe might be pseudo-Lolths designed to circumvent WotC legal territory. Combining her tale with Lilith would interesting but I think not easily done; serpents and spiders carry different symbolism, plus of course Lloth's Seldarine origins are clearly inviolate.
Don''t know what edition they are suppoused to be but I think the WotSQ saga refer to her as Lloth. Anyways I think it has better musicallity the Lolth spelling IMO... |
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Therise
Master of Realmslore
1272 Posts |
Posted - 10 Sep 2011 : 18:28:16
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For those unfamiliar with Zakhara, there is Lotha, a human-headed spider venerated by evil elves who were "burned alive for their sins" (perhaps burned = marked by Corellon with black skin?). Lotha is not openly worshipped, but rather considered one of the Savage Forgotten Gods of the ruined river kingdoms. Really ancient temples or shrines to this Lotha just might be hidden underground in those regions.
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Chosen of Asmodeus
Master of Realmslore
1221 Posts |
Posted - 11 Sep 2011 : 00:12:22
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| The way it had been explained to me, Lolth/Lloth is meant to be pronounced similarly to loathe; Loethe may just be trying to reflect that better. I know I pronounced Lloth as rhyming with sloth foe the longest time. |
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Edited by - Chosen of Asmodeus on 11 Sep 2011 01:00:53 |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 11 Sep 2011 : 00:59:22
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| It's been explained in my campaigning as translation-induced uncertainty. The actual name and pronunciation, at least as spoken by her Drow worshippers, is said to be impossible to properly write in Common. There's basically just no way to use the alphabet to properly write the strange soundforms used in a foreign language. Consider the many different English (Roman alphabet) transcriptions for names from Slavic languages; all the Slavs pronounce them in a consistent fashion, yet they just can't really be written intelligibly to an English speaker who isn't accustomed to shaping the accents and syllables. So much worse when the "foreign language" is from another continent or period in history or (in this instance) another species. The Drow probably all know Lolth's name, and she answers to it ... that's all that matters. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 11 Sep 2011 : 02:22:29
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If "Loethe" is pronounced as two syllables...that would be like the Korean or Japanese pronunciation of "Lolth," the middle "l" silent. Koreans and Japanese tend to add a syllable at the end of a word [e.g. beach becomes beache]. |
Every beginning has an end. |
Edited by - Dennis on 11 Sep 2011 03:25:48 |
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Fellfire
Master of Realmslore
1965 Posts |
Posted - 11 Sep 2011 : 11:58:37
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| I swear that I have seen that spelling in my library somewhere. Shadow Rift, maybe? I'll have to rack my brain or do some digging when I get home |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 11 Sep 2011 : 12:26:21
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Friend google gave the following results. The sites where such spelling of Lolth were used:
MINDSPRING
PVV |
Every beginning has an end. |
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LadyAraushnee
Acolyte
3 Posts |
Posted - 12 Sep 2011 : 00:04:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Friend google gave the following results. The sites where such spelling of Lolth were used:
MINDSPRING
PVV
Google is how I stumbled on the spelling, however there is not a single site that I can find that tells me where Loethe comes from.
I am trying to develop a list of d&d characters and I have been working on drow characters and deities from forgotten realms for some time now. I wish to have any alt spellings and aliases. However, I need to know where different spellings come from. If it isn't in any d&d campaign, then I will exclude that spelling. For example, Kiaransalee is in forgotten realms, she is also in greyhawk and her name is spelled Kiaransali. There will be some exceptions to this rule. I have desperately been looking for fairy names in d&d novels as well, and the only one I have is Escalla from greyhawk.
PS: Thanks for the welcome. =) |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4690 Posts |
Posted - 12 Sep 2011 : 05:07:36
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Hmm, doing a little work, it appears the name Loethe is a true name that exists in Wales, Scotland and England.
As to games I found it, War of Warcraft (though might be user name) |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 12 Sep 2011 : 05:44:08
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Loethe, Lothe, and Loth (with or without umlaut ö diacritics) are apparently all uncommon surnames from the Germanic countries; essentially just linguistic variations from which our English words loath and loathe are derived (actually, I'm unsure whether these are two different words or just two differing dictionaries). A few mildly famous individuals have these surnames. Lilith seems to be entirely unrelated.
I would guess that any occurrences of Loethe, Lothe, or Loth instead of Lolth / Lloth in any official TSR/WotC publications would be some sort of oversight or typo. Perhaps even a context taken from text passages deliberately written to introduce errors or simulate "old drow" dialects or whatever.
I personally much prefer Goethe over Loethe, but then again I've always been partial to Faust. |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 12 Sep 2011 05:52:49 |
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 13 Sep 2011 : 23:01:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
Lloth and drow appeared in several 1E modules, but her name was changed to Lolth when finally published a few years later in the Fiend Folio (under the Drow entry) and in Deities & Demigods; subsequent materials consistently preferred the Lolth spelling, and Lloth seems to have entirely disappeared somewhere within 2E. Some people treat Lloth as her name in the drow language, as stated in the earliest introductory modules.
quote:
Originally posted by Chosen of Asmodeus
The way it had been explained to me, Lolth/Lloth is meant to be pronounced similarly to loathe; Loethe may just be trying to reflect that better. I know I pronounced Lloth as rhyming with sloth foe the longest time.
I don't know where these ideas come from, but the 'Lloth' spelling first appeared as a Bob Salvatore typo, which was later rationalized as a Menzoberranzan/Uluitur regionalism. 'Lolth' is pronounced just as it's spelled, though I don't know if Gary used a short or long o. |
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Where does this spelling of Lolth come from?
