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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
 Posted - 05 Sep 2011 : 21:22:21
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Poll Question:
How much 'tech' is too much? 
In the current campaign/world/setting I am designing (inspired by the Realms, but very different), I was going for something of a Warcraft feel: Humans are basically at the RW medieval level, but Dwarves (and perhaps a few other 'Ancient Races') would have a near-Renaissance tech-level. That is the impression I got of the Realms in the late 2e era - it was moving from the 'Dark Ages' (post-Netheril) into a new Renaissance-like period.
So Dwarves would have and make Gunnes, and have the exclusive(?) knowledge of their construction, including the formula for the chemical-propulsion (Gunpowder, although I have not even decided if it will be a powder or some liquid/gas).
Second question: Do you prefer 'pure' technology, or magi-tech for some things? I am toying with the idea of having one of the ingredients of my gunpoweder be somewhat magical, or at least, something which doesn't exist RW that has magical potential (like mithral is to metals). I think by doing this I can give the world a more scientific/logical balance and still have that supernatural element as well. The campaign would have its on physics, so magic becomes a scientific discipline (along the lines of Alchemy).
Is steam tech too much, if limited? I read a good book entitled Kingdom of the Dwarves years ago, wherein said folk had steam-powered earth-movers and mining cars. Or should that tech also be quasi-magical in nature? (I could use the same mineral for both, replacing carbon/coal with my arcane ingredient). That means steam-tech still works, but the fuel would make it more fantasy-ish.
Third, what about electricity? At first glance that seems a bit too advanced, but the Iron Kingdoms setting uses it without detracting from the fantasy feel. Although I haven't played the 2 newer ones, the original Dungeonsiege CG also used it (I think the goblins had some limited use of it, similar to how it is handled in Iron kingdoms/Warmachine). I also recently read the first book of the His Dark Materials series, and all they did was rename it 'Ambaric' and it kept the fantastical feel.
Is it really THAT easy? In order to make a world more believable/memorable, all you need do is give RW concepts/creatures new names? I am noting that in some of the things I am currently reading (non-FR), and it does help maintain the 'immersion factor'.
So, how does everyone feel about mixing tech with their fantasy? That last category would include settings like Girl Genius and 'Alternate earths' like Gothic Earth or the one in League of Extraordinary Gentleman or a dozen other movies I can think of (including even Indiana Jones).
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"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 05 Sep 2011 21:31:47
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4460 Posts |
Posted - 05 Sep 2011 : 21:33:28
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Gotta go with Magi-tech. To me, you could incorporate a lot of elements such as firearms but infused a bit more with magic. I remember reading a "....of the Realms" book which mentioned a wizard looking for Gunns. Khelban specifically said not to but he was curious. The story develops that the wizard finds a Gunn-smuggling ring and ties to stop it. The main villian has a Blunderbus with a Silence spell cast on it, so no one can hear the big "BOOOM!" that comes along with the shot. I remember feeling giddy with exceitement in trying this out in my campaigns.
Also, I feel steam and later innovations detract too much from the fantasy world and put more emphasis on technology. Tech can be great and all (hells Thundercats is doing an amazing job of keeping tech, magic, and the medieval feel interesting) but it should be used as a backdrop, not a focal point in a setting.
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 05 Sep 2011 : 21:44:07
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PRECISELY.
Those was my thoughts as well. 
I think if you use a light-touch, anything can be fantasy (like SW).
However, I am also thinking of eventual publication of certain things, which is why I like to use the folks here as sounding-board for ideas. You can create the greatest setting that ever was, but if you are the only one who likes it then it isn't worth a damn. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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GRYPHON
Senior Scribe
USA
527 Posts |
Posted - 05 Sep 2011 : 23:28:29
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| Medieval/High Fantasy... |
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Old Man Harpell
Senior Scribe
USA
497 Posts |
Posted - 06 Sep 2011 : 02:17:11
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| You might take a gander at Iron Kingdoms. It has pretty much everything you are considering. And any setting that has a 'pistol wraith' is bound to be cool. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36877 Posts |
Posted - 06 Sep 2011 : 04:41:16
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I prefer medieval/high fantasy, but for some settings, going in other directions can be nifty. The Iron Kingdoms, as mentioned, has gunpowder, guns, steam power, and regular fantasy elements... But on the flip side, magical healing is more difficult, bringing the dead back to life is downright dangerous for all involved, and it's so difficult to make a regular magical item that they have to do it in segments and then assemble those.
In my Realms, I don't want firearms at all. They don't belong in the setting, I think. In the Iron Kingdoms, they fit... In fact, if I was to play an IK campaign, forget being a warcaster -- I want to play a gun mage.
So I prefer lots of magic and no guns, but some settings can make the opposite work. |
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Dark Wizard
Senior Scribe
USA
830 Posts |
Posted - 06 Sep 2011 : 05:28:57
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For one of the settings Im working on with a friend, we discussed, debated, argued, and generally pissed off the other for weeks over this very topic. The issue of firearms and early modern levels of technology for this setting have been in contention since its inception, going on a couple of years now, ever since we began tossing this idea around.
Originally as discussed I wanted something between Renaissance and Age of Sail level tech, with guns a secondary to swordplay and swashbuckling. My co-author wanted something firmly steampunk. Lately Ive warmed to the idea of guns over swords. This decision came after we reviewed where we wanted to go with the characters. I agreed that going darker with a more technological bend would fit with where the characters developed. The technology of this world is magic based, with the fuel resources all magical/alchemical in nature.
Which ever you decide, tech level, whether magical or scientific, does (or at least should) change the setting. If done from the start it will feel consistent. |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 06 Sep 2011 : 05:53:22
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There's no reason for technology to be globally uniform, Markus. In fact you've already stated that your dwarven cultures possess higher technology than your human ones, there's probably a wide disparity between technologies across different regions.
Earth-styled technology will naturally lead to Earth-styled mass production and deployment, the underlying principle behind all of our science is that it is reproducible; and while that's fine it probably isn't where you want your fantasy world to go. Your players might argue (correctly) that since they have electrical power, external combustion engines, chemistry, metallurgy, and machining, they should be able to build themselves a Panzer and rumble across the land - and it would only be a short time before some group of dwarves copied, improved, and mass-produced the idea ... your fantasy world might quickly turn into place filled with factories, industrialization, strip-mining, coal smoke, and modern warfare.
Hybridized magic-technology offers the advantage that it still requires skilled/learned craftsmen, engineers, scientists, and mages to construct and operate. Perhaps electricity doesn't work unless an alchemist converts sunlight into batteries, perhaps engines and lathes are powered by genies or demons, perhaps one of the ingredients in dwarfpowder is elemental fire they extract by force at the anvil. By forcing some dependance on the mystical you can impose limits on how easily technology is replicated and improved, just can't fix captured machines without also capturing mage-mechanics, you can even install secretive dwarven guilds who use monopolies (and other methods) to protect their trade secrets. The key idea is that you need to explain how a civilization maintains technological supremacy over another civilization, why places beyond the borders of civilization have no access to technology. How and why do your dwarves keep ahead of your humans? I doubt they allied since you can tell a lot about people who maintain advantages and dominance over their friends; I doubt they're at war with each other since the technologically inferior society hasn't been exterminated nor assimilated. You might explain the imbalance between your nations as the result of long term isolation, although then you'd need to explain how/why they suddenly came into contact and haven't yet reached technological parity; perhaps they're at war with some third (and apparently superior) entity, say elves armed with iPhones.
The classic D&D approach of claiming that the physics of their setting have quirks which differ from ours is workable enough. (Although I confess that undisguised arbitrary divine fiat, a central and recurring theme expressed in the Realms, has always seemed cheap and cowardly to me; besides it's already been done, you'd need to invent some other explanation.) |
[/Ayrik] |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 06 Sep 2011 : 06:02:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
There's no reason for technology to be globally uniform, Markus. In fact you've already stated that your dwarven cultures possess higher technology than your human ones, there's probably a wide disparity between technologies across different regions.
This would, essentially, be my viewpoint.
I often allow for a myriad of technological levels in my writings. Basically, the demands of each story I'm trying to tell through a game/story/campaign will almost always dictate what levels of technology -- and, also, how pervasive that technology can and will be throughout a particular society -- feature in the setting.
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 06 Sep 2011 : 06:42:58
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| Technology disseminates through all modes transport and communication - and technology keeps inventing better ways to disseminate itself: printing presses, railways, telegraphs, aircraft, radio, computers, internet. Technological saturation and growth is exponential ... unless it cannot replicate itself, ie: it involves some mystical element, something which cannot exist or function without direct living intervention. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Marc
Senior Scribe
662 Posts |
Posted - 06 Sep 2011 : 16:34:11
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| The highest tolerable level for me is 17-18th century age of enlightenment and discovery, before the steam engine. Except for weapons, they're renaissance level in areas like Chondath, Sembia, Waterdeep, Amn. |
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Farrel
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
239 Posts |
Posted - 06 Sep 2011 : 16:51:29
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I voted for Medieval/High Fantasy.
I don't mind smokepowder weapons in the realms but they are as rare as hens teeth as far as i'm concerned.
I quite like the idea of Clockwork Automatons, Scaladar, or the Gondsmen but that's about my limit though. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 06 Sep 2011 : 18:21:43
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Good call bringing up the Gondsmen - them, and other ancient civilizations/races could be responsible for quite a bit of 'un-reproducible' tech (liked Helmed Horrors, etc).
I also like your post about setting atmosphere, DW - I am going for Dark (with a twist), so some techno-grittiness might be in order. My Dwarven region will be similar to the Salt Lake City of the Deadlands setting (industrialized with lots of smoke and soot covering everything... very depressing feel to it).
I may also implement other control-factors, such as limited release of certain tech by the Dwarves; "unlicensed usage" of Dwarven items could land you in jail, or worse. And of course, even if a PC got their hands on a firearm, they'd then be hard-pressed to find Darkpowder* for it.
*Place-holder name for my Gunpowedr replacement.
quote:
Originally posted by Old Man Harpell
You might take a gander at Iron Kingdoms. It has pretty much everything you are considering. And any setting that has a 'pistol wraith' is bound to be cool.
You mean like this?
Yeah, that's one of mine, but the gloss-coat doesn't do it justice.
Its slag now.  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 06 Sep 2011 18:28:03 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 07 Sep 2011 : 04:04:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
And of course, even if a PC got their hands on a firearm, they'd then be hard-pressed to find Darkpowder* for it.
*Place-holder name for my Gunpowedr replacement.
Have you elaborated on your darkpowder variant here at Candlekeep previously, Markus? I'd like to learn more.
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Varl
Learned Scribe
USA
284 Posts |
Posted - 07 Sep 2011 : 18:17:50
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Medieval/High Fantasy for me. I'll admit certain tech elements appeal to me, though definitely in very small sips. Cannons aboard ships are fine (though I tend to stick to using magic or alchemy as the propellent), railroads of a sort primarily manufactured and maintained by dwarves and non-powered, certain techie feel golem types to use as unusual foes, things like this.
Guns are right out. I just cannot get into the idea. I never have. Even species typically known to use and possess guns, such as the Giff, don't. Spelljamming, as a definitive high tech vehicle, isn't something I've chosen to pursue, yet airships I kinda like.
So I guess I like some subtle tech elements in my game, as long as they remain subtle, and keep magic and the fantasy in the limelight. |
I'm on a permanent vacation to the soul. -Tash Sultana |
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Thelonius
Senior Scribe
Spain
730 Posts |
Posted - 07 Sep 2011 : 18:19:38
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| I use to use a mix medieval-Phantasy, but always mixed with the differences in each race (dwarves and gnomes have always been ahead in such things). I'd like also to put some steampunk as I find it appealing, yet my knowledge of it is quite short. |
"If you are to truly understand, then you will need the contrast, not adherence to a single ideal." - Kreia
"I THINK I JUST HAD ANOTHER NEAR-RINCEWIND EXPERIENCE"- Discworld's Death frustrated after Rincewind scapes his grasp... again.
"I am death, come for thee" - Nimbul, from Baldur's Gate I just before being badly spanked
Sapientia sola libertas est |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 07 Sep 2011 : 19:04:49
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It seems most of the consensus is either 'old school' RPG (High Fantasy), or 'Steampunk light' (what I refer to as magi-tech, which FR actually has a lot of, mostly in the form of automatons/Golems). I think the latter is new direction of fantasy, being pushed in this direction by CG-RPGs. While I always considered myself 'old school', having four sons gives me a bit of a window into what the current crop of gamers is looking for.
A Golemic train engine might be interesting - I am having certain problems balancing certain things (because of the nature of the mineral/power-source I am using), and what I might do is have at least two different methods of locomotion (like in Star Trek, where they have Warp-Engines and impulse=power).
In fact... come to think of it... it works very much like the two different power-sources in ST (the result, not the actual details, which are more fantasy-ish).
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
And of course, even if a PC got their hands on a firearm, they'd then be hard-pressed to find Darkpowder* for it.
*Place-holder name for my Gunpowedr replacement.
Have you elaborated on your darkpowder variant here at Candlekeep previously, Markus? I'd like to learn more.
No, nothing in-particular. In some of the threads here I had ideas for variant forms of magic, etc, which have lead me to design my own setting. I can't say much more then that (this IS still an FR site, after all). 
To answer your question and elaborate further on my last statement above the quote - their are certain elements that can be combined to create energy, which can be used for various things. All of this is based on my cosmology I was working out in Quale's wonderful Faerie thread.
Energy comes from either 'above', or 'below', and you can can get the most spectacular results by combining the two, but its VERY dangerous. Nature/Elemental magic is a third alternative, and derives from the material plane (which in my cosmology includes The Prime AND the four elemental planes).*
My desire for a consistent magic system and world history has lead me rebuilding D&D based on my cosmology, to the point where it is barely reminiscent of D&D anymore. 
Picture a dark & gritty world, where medieval-style Catholic church entity exists, trying to get rid of all the magic and other creatures. Its sort of Warcraft/Warmachine meets His Dark materials, with SoF&I intrigues and little bits of everything else thrown in the mix, while still trying (desperately) to maintain a high-fantasy feel. That's it in a nutshell - unfortunately I am practically starting from scratch again, which may not be such a bad thing (it allows me to re-think quite a few 'iffy' elements).
I want it to feel the way The Realms felt - OLD, with ruins so ancient that even the long-lived races don't remember them, and no-one knowing the whole story. Maybe that's where FR started getting off-track... when we began to know 'too much'. Rumors and whispered half-truths are SO much better fodder then precise sourcebooks detailing every little thing. Ed often hints FR's best secrets are still buried - I lOVE that about it (and him).
*And this post just made me realize there are certain similarities between my setting and Eberron, which is bit disconcerting. I guess its nearly impossible to create anything that doesn't remind one of something else.  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 07 Sep 2011 19:19:17 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36877 Posts |
Posted - 07 Sep 2011 : 19:08:53
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quote:
Originally posted by Thelonius
I use to use a mix medieval-Phantasy, but always mixed with the differences in each race (dwarves and gnomes have always been ahead in such things). I'd like also to put some steampunk as I find it appealing, yet my knowledge of it is quite short.
You should look into the Iron Kingdoms, then. It's steampunk and fantasy mixed together. There are elves, humans, undead, dwarves, and steam-powered robots with magical brains. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 07 Sep 2011 : 19:43:26
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The Darkstone in my own world is sort of a blend of Necrotite from Warmachine/Iron Kingdoms and the 'Ghost Rock' of the Deadlands/Weird West settings.
The Soul-Cages are way cool too - If I wasn't so concerned with eventual publication I would just lift things wholesale, they are so good. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 07 Sep 2011 19:45:07 |
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Thelonius
Senior Scribe
Spain
730 Posts |
Posted - 07 Sep 2011 : 20:13:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Thelonius
I use to use a mix medieval-Phantasy, but always mixed with the differences in each race (dwarves and gnomes have always been ahead in such things). I'd like also to put some steampunk as I find it appealing, yet my knowledge of it is quite short.
You should look into the Iron Kingdoms, then. It's steampunk and fantasy mixed together. There are elves, humans, undead, dwarves, and steam-powered robots with magical brains.
As I was afraid they have not arrived to Spain  Will have to try to get them by other means... |
"If you are to truly understand, then you will need the contrast, not adherence to a single ideal." - Kreia
"I THINK I JUST HAD ANOTHER NEAR-RINCEWIND EXPERIENCE"- Discworld's Death frustrated after Rincewind scapes his grasp... again.
"I am death, come for thee" - Nimbul, from Baldur's Gate I just before being badly spanked
Sapientia sola libertas est |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 07 Sep 2011 : 20:58:46
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I've actually had a lot of fun playing in a high-technology low-magic campaign somewhat similar to Faerūn-meets-Victorian-era-Europe; factories, zeppelins, mild steel, railways, external combustion engines (steam power), electricity, telegraphs, pocket watches, firearms are standard (revolvers, shotguns, bolt-action rifles, even wagon-mounted gatling guns) yet sabres and daggers/bayonets and armored cuirasses and blacksmithing forges and horses still see a lot of use ...
In this pseudo-Realms campaign we are witnessing a golden age of industrial revolution in Cormyr and Sembia. While Zhentia (once a broken nation; now aggressively nationalistic, united in purpose, and driven to great furor by their leader, an insane and charismatic avatar of Bane) is pushing the frontiers of technology to new limits; they're experimenting with winged aircraft, internal combustion engines (petroleum power), radio, rocketry, and modular furniture. They've recently imported, equipped, and trained an army of tens of thousands of orcs and goblinoids, their Thayan allies may have also imported legions of baatezu, they have some sort of territorial pact with the drow involving the Moonsea. Kings and dragons from all neighbouring countries have been hiring mercenaries and adventurers to protect their borders. It's an uneasy armistice, we're all expecting some thus-far insignificant unlucky minor nobleman to get assassinated so all Nine Hells can finally break loose.
Just sayin' that "high technology" can still be very charming and fantastic. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36877 Posts |
Posted - 07 Sep 2011 : 21:27:59
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quote:
Originally posted by Thelonius
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Thelonius
I use to use a mix medieval-Phantasy, but always mixed with the differences in each race (dwarves and gnomes have always been ahead in such things). I'd like also to put some steampunk as I find it appealing, yet my knowledge of it is quite short.
You should look into the Iron Kingdoms, then. It's steampunk and fantasy mixed together. There are elves, humans, undead, dwarves, and steam-powered robots with magical brains.
As I was afraid they have not arrived to Spain Will have to try to get them by other means...
The books have been out for a few years and are in fact out of print now. It's been my experience that if you are patient, you can get them on eBay for reasonable prices. Other sites, like Nobleknight.com, would also be worth checking out.
Of course, Privateer Press has also confirmed they're going to redo the books, so you could also wait for that. The flipside of that is that the existing books are 3.5, and they're apparently going to come up with their own ruleset for the next release of the books. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Thelonius
Senior Scribe
Spain
730 Posts |
Posted - 07 Sep 2011 : 22:13:46
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| Dang, will try to go to the specialized library to see if they can get them from somewhere, else I guess I'll have to wait or come out with another system... |
"If you are to truly understand, then you will need the contrast, not adherence to a single ideal." - Kreia
"I THINK I JUST HAD ANOTHER NEAR-RINCEWIND EXPERIENCE"- Discworld's Death frustrated after Rincewind scapes his grasp... again.
"I am death, come for thee" - Nimbul, from Baldur's Gate I just before being badly spanked
Sapientia sola libertas est |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2011 : 01:52:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Thelonius
Dang, will try to go to the specialized library to see if they can get them from somewhere, else I guess I'll have to wait or come out with another system...
In the meantime, I suggest you peruse the two Privateer Press links I'll refer to shortly, for detailed sections on the dynamics, factions, and gameplay of both the IRON KINGDOMS setting, and as it is featured in the WARMACHINE game. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2011 : 03:54:33
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It would be interesting to see anti-technology Luddites in the Realms - or even anti-magic Luddites. The usual argument is that labour-saving devices reduce demand for labour, while all the pleasant wonders these things provide are invariably outweighed by the horrible problems they create.
Do anti-Gonders sabotage forges and workshops, vandalizing printing presses and windmills and any other high technology they find unguarded? Do they unjustly stereotype and persecute gnomes in retribution for the maddening technical monstrousities the race has unleashed upon the world? Do they worship Glitch, the divine gremlin-tanar'ri entity, Lord of Layer 42 of the Endless Abyss, in return for special granted powers of ungineering and malfunction?
I suppose the closest analogue I can think of in D&D terms is an adaptation from the PHBR4: Complete Wizard's Handbook - a wizard organization/society known as The Foes of the Wand. The position of the Foes is that magical items allow anyone to use magic and thus diminish the special power (and privilege) properly wielded only by wizards; the Foes are strictly forbidden from using any magical items of any kind for any purpose (even wizard-class-only items, they're very serious); they receive XP and bonus spells for destroying magical items. |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 08 Sep 2011 04:23:00 |
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Thelonius
Senior Scribe
Spain
730 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2011 : 12:31:58
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Thelonius
Dang, will try to go to the specialized library to see if they can get them from somewhere, else I guess I'll have to wait or come out with another system...
In the meantime, I suggest you peruse the two Privateer Press links I'll refer to shortly, for detailed sections on the dynamics, factions, and gameplay of both the IRON KINGDOMS setting, and as it is featured in the WARMACHINE game.
Thank you very much for this info going to delv into these right now. really looking forward to new addings |
"If you are to truly understand, then you will need the contrast, not adherence to a single ideal." - Kreia
"I THINK I JUST HAD ANOTHER NEAR-RINCEWIND EXPERIENCE"- Discworld's Death frustrated after Rincewind scapes his grasp... again.
"I am death, come for thee" - Nimbul, from Baldur's Gate I just before being badly spanked
Sapientia sola libertas est |
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Daviot
Senior Scribe
USA
372 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2011 : 14:16:45
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quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
It would be interesting to see anti-technology Luddites in the Realms - or even anti-magic Luddites.
I suppose the closest analogue I can think of in D&D terms is an adaptation from the PHBR4: Complete Wizard's Handbook - a wizard organization/society known as The Foes of the Wand. The position of the Foes is that magical items allow anyone to use magic and thus diminish the special power (and privilege) properly wielded only by wizards; the Foes are strictly forbidden from using any magical items of any kind for any purpose (even wizard-class-only items, they're very serious); they receive XP and bonus spells for destroying magical items.
The closest organization in the Realms that comes to mind are the Cultists of the Shattered Peak detailed in Lost Empires of Faerūn, who are modern-day Netherese luddites, opposing adventurers and others who delve into Netherese secrets. The associated 5 level 3.5 prestige class features a "smite mage" ability, which is more or less exactly what it says on the tin. |
One usually has far more to fear from the soft-spoken wizard with a blade and well-worn boots than from the boisterous one in the ivory tower.
My Tabletop Writing CV. |
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Fingal
Seeker
56 Posts |
Posted - 12 Sep 2011 : 21:35:01
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quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
I've actually had a lot of fun playing in a high-technology low-magic campaign somewhat similar to Faerūn-meets-Victorian-era-Europe; factories, zeppelins, mild steel, railways, external combustion engines (steam power), electricity, telegraphs, pocket watches, firearms are standard (revolvers, shotguns, bolt-action rifles, even wagon-mounted gatling guns) yet sabres and daggers/bayonets and armored cuirasses and blacksmithing forges and horses still see a lot of use ...
In this pseudo-Realms campaign we are witnessing a golden age of industrial revolution in Cormyr and Sembia. While Zhentia (once a broken nation; now aggressively nationalistic, united in purpose, and driven to great furor by their leader, an insane and charismatic avatar of Bane) is pushing the frontiers of technology to new limits; they're experimenting with winged aircraft, internal combustion engines (petroleum power), radio, rocketry, and modular furniture. They've recently imported, equipped, and trained an army of tens of thousands of orcs and goblinoids, their Thayan allies may have also imported legions of baatezu, they have some sort of territorial pact with the drow involving the Moonsea. Kings and dragons from all neighbouring countries have been hiring mercenaries and adventurers to protect their borders. It's an uneasy armistice, we're all expecting some thus-far insignificant unlucky minor nobleman to get assassinated so all Nine Hells can finally break loose.
Just sayin' that "high technology" can still be very charming and fantastic.
Now that sounds like a lot of fun! |
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Thelonius
Senior Scribe
Spain
730 Posts |
Posted - 12 Sep 2011 : 21:47:09
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quote:
Just sayin' that "high technology" can still be very charming and fantastic.
*cough* Mass Effect *cough* |
"If you are to truly understand, then you will need the contrast, not adherence to a single ideal." - Kreia
"I THINK I JUST HAD ANOTHER NEAR-RINCEWIND EXPERIENCE"- Discworld's Death frustrated after Rincewind scapes his grasp... again.
"I am death, come for thee" - Nimbul, from Baldur's Gate I just before being badly spanked
Sapientia sola libertas est |
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combatmedic
Senior Scribe
USA
428 Posts |
Posted - 20 Aug 2012 : 10:22:40
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This is one of those areas where I pretty much follow canon, although not out of any special sense of fidelity to published materials.
I generally assume that the lands around the Sea of Fallen Stars possess a technology level not dissimilar to late medieval Christendom or the Islamic world, with allowances for anachronisms
Gunpowder, of course, fits in just fine with a mediaeval setting.
Its a medieval invention, after all. I treat it as a special item. In order to keep gunpowder exotic (not necessarily because I think more widespread use of primitive firearms and cannon would actually have a huge impact in FR) I am thinking of ruling that the stuff becomes unreliable without the blessing of a cleric of Gond.
The matchlock arquebus represents the height of weapons innovation. Outside Lantan, guns in general are pretty rare.
Printing presses with moveable metallic type have not been invented. Woodblock printing is used in some places.
Why has the tech level progressed so slowly, or even regressed at times? I go with three pretty bog-standard explanations:
A lot of the time, talent, and energy that would go into technical improvements and innovation in a non-magical setting have instead been put into magical pursuits in Faerun.
- The gods wish it so. Oghma restrains Gond from letting his priests get away with too much. That Last March of the Giants myth is probably based on reality, IMC.
- A series of disasters, plagues, and RSEs over the millennia have knocked down civilization in many parts of the Realms. Realms history is cyclic, with empires rising and falling in alternating phases of civilization and barbarism.
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YMMV= Your Mileage May Vary. I'm putting it here so I don't have to type it in every other post. :) |
Edited by - combatmedic on 20 Aug 2012 10:27:34 |
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Campaign Workshop: Tech
