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Bladewind
Master of Realmslore
Netherlands
1280 Posts |
 Posted - 14 Sep 2011 : 16:16:23
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I am of mind that the 15th century the 4th edition Realms is set in definitely is the Forgotten Realms. If Ed, Cunningham, De Bie, Salvatore and Kemp (and many others) are willing to write and work in it there are surely some great things headed our way.
I am rather fond of the idea of being able to choose what time period I play in; a bit like choosing your prefered era when starting a Star Wars campaign. Do you play during the the Old Republic era, the Clone Wars period, the Rise of the Empire or after the Return of the Jedi? Unfortunately, I prefer 3.5 rules and some 4ed rules prove to be a problem when applying to the 15th century realms.
I'd like to see a middle ground emerge, where all new crunch of the new edition realms has a side section with tips for a conversion to older systems. For example a way to streamline the AED spells into a vancian casting system and vice versa would be very handy. If only the 4e system wasn't as big a leap from previous ones this would be quite intuitive (look at the Star Wars SAGA system).
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My campaign sketches
Druidic Groves
Creature Feature: Giant Spiders |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2011 : 16:22:47
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quote:
Originally posted by Bladewind
I am of mind that the 15th century the 4th edition Realms is set in definitely is the Forgotten Realms. If Ed, Cunningham, De Bie, Salvatore and Kemp (and many others) are willing to write and work in it there are surely some great things headed our way.
I am honored to be so included! Your faith means a great deal to me. 
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Bladewind
Master of Realmslore
Netherlands
1280 Posts |
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Bakra
Senior Scribe
628 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2011 : 19:03:02
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quote:
Originally posted by Therise
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Originally posted by Bakra
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Originally posted by Matt James
Razz, that wouldn't work well at all in a business model. Though, I could see some very small treatments being drafted up that might cover it as teasers. The last sentence you put, however, is definitely possible. Keep your eyes peeled ;)
*coughs* October *coughs*
What's coming in October? Something shiny?
Yup
We get some Serenity in the form of Kara Tur. Then towards the end of the year is Moonshaes.
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I hope Candlekeep continues to be the friendly forum of fellow Realms-lovers that it has always been, as we all go through this together. If you don’t want to move to the “new” Realms, that doesn’t mean there’s anything wrong with either you or the “old” Realms. Goodness knows Candlekeep, and the hearts of its scribes, are both big enough to accommodate both. If we want them to be.
(Strikes dramatic pose, raises sword to gleam in the sunset, and hopes breeches won’t fall down.)
Enough for now. The Realms lives! I have spoken! Ale and light wines half price, served by a smiling Storm Silverhand fetchingly clad in thigh-high boots and naught else! Ahem . .
So saith Ed. <snip>
love to all,
THO
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Therise
Master of Realmslore
1272 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2011 : 19:11:10
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quote:
Originally posted by Bakra
Yup
We get some Serenity in the form of Kara Tur. Then towards the end of the year is Moonshaes.
Oh very nice. Kara Tur is one of my favorite settings.
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Female, 40-year DM of a homebrew-evolved 1E Realms, including a few added tidbits of 2E and 3E lore; played originally in AD&D, then in Rolemaster. Be a DM for your kids and grandkids, gaming is excellent for families! |
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see
Learned Scribe
235 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2011 : 20:06:38
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Originally posted by Old Man Harpell
But it's what we're stuck with,
Why no, I'm not stuck with any of it. My Realms are simply out-of-print.
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Originally posted by Old Man Harpell
and now we have to fix it,
No, I don't need to fix anything. Hasbro does, but my Realms continue to exist just fine without them.
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Originally posted by Old Man Harpelland pester Wizbro to make the repairs they need to.
I'm not going to pester them to make the necessary repairs (resetting the setting changes the way GURPS Traveller reset the changes of MegaTraveller and TNE). They have the perfect right to do whatever they want with their IP. I'm just not going to give Hasbro any of my money. |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4471 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2011 : 21:05:15
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Originally posted by see
quote:
Originally posted by Old Man Harpelland pester Wizbro to make the repairs they need to.
I'm not going to pester them to make the necessary repairs (resetting the setting changes the way GURPS Traveller reset the changes of MegaTraveller and TNE). They have the perfect right to do whatever they want with their IP. I'm just not going to give Hasbro any of my money.
Along the same lines, there are quite a lot of people who like what happened to the Realms and prefer it the way it is now and make changes according to their own home-campaigns. For better or worse, what WotC published is Canon but no one needs to pay attention to that (just like before). I'm all for re-structuring the Realms and helping people flesh out their own versions of it, but "official" publications need to support what's being done currently and I think asking Wizbro to undo the changes they made is just a bit unecessary IMO. |
Diffan's NPG Generator: FR NPC Generator |
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Old Man Harpell
Senior Scribe
USA
497 Posts |
Posted - 20 Sep 2011 : 12:31:05
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Originally posted by Diffan
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Originally posted by see
quote:
Originally posted by Old Man Harpelland pester Wizbro to make the repairs they need to.
I'm not going to pester them to make the necessary repairs (resetting the setting changes the way GURPS Traveller reset the changes of MegaTraveller and TNE). They have the perfect right to do whatever they want with their IP. I'm just not going to give Hasbro any of my money.
Along the same lines, there are quite a lot of people who like what happened to the Realms and prefer it the way it is now and make changes according to their own home-campaigns. For better or worse, what WotC published is Canon but no one needs to pay attention to that (just like before). I'm all for re-structuring the Realms and helping people flesh out their own versions of it, but "official" publications need to support what's being done currently and I think asking Wizbro to undo the changes they made is just a bit unecessary IMO.
Pretty much. More to the point, Wizbro is not going to undo what they've done. Could the freelancers, if given free reign, repair the damage? I'm betting they could. But I know it isn't going to happen. The in-house folks likely have stubborn pride driving some their decisions, even if some of them now realize that trying to shoehorn the Realms into the whole 'Points of Light' thing (when Eberron and Dark Sun would have served that function admirably) was a colossal mistake.
See's example of the Traveller system is well-taken. If they'd stopped at MegaTraveller, and then somehow managed to 'fix' the Rebellion damage that 'shattered the Imperium' in a way that was a little more low-key and less time-spanning, there would have been no need for a Traveller: The New Era. The game system wasn't half bad...but the TNE time jump and the storyline sucked.
This is pretty much why Wizbro is the one that will have to decide whether to leave the majority of this awesome world to rot with the unnecessary changes that were made, or if they will produce more worthy material along the lines of the NCS and make it into something resembling the Realms we all know and love.
I am hoping for the latter - the NCS is precisely the sort of product that says someone is listening, and are willing to hire the talent that understands the Realms. And who knows? Maybe one day, just as we saw Marc Miller's Traveller, we'll get to see, as I know I've said, Ed Greenwood's Forgotten Realms.
Hey - a guy can dream, right?
- OMH |
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Therise
Master of Realmslore
1272 Posts |
Posted - 20 Sep 2011 : 18:09:08
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quote:
Originally posted by Old Man Harpell
Pretty much. More to the point, Wizbro is not going to undo what they've done. Could the freelancers, if given free reign, repair the damage? I'm betting they could. But I know it isn't going to happen. The in-house folks likely have stubborn pride driving some their decisions, even if some of them now realize that trying to shoehorn the Realms into the whole 'Points of Light' thing (when Eberron and Dark Sun would have served that function admirably) was a colossal mistake.
See's example of the Traveller system is well-taken. If they'd stopped at MegaTraveller, and then somehow managed to 'fix' the Rebellion damage that 'shattered the Imperium' in a way that was a little more low-key and less time-spanning, there would have been no need for a Traveller: The New Era. The game system wasn't half bad...but the TNE time jump and the storyline sucked.
This is pretty much why Wizbro is the one that will have to decide whether to leave the majority of this awesome world to rot with the unnecessary changes that were made, or if they will produce more worthy material along the lines of the NCS and make it into something resembling the Realms we all know and love.
I am hoping for the latter - the NCS is precisely the sort of product that says someone is listening, and are willing to hire the talent that understands the Realms. And who knows? Maybe one day, just as we saw Marc Miller's Traveller, we'll get to see, as I know I've said, Ed Greenwood's Forgotten Realms.
Hey - a guy can dream, right?
- OMH
It might be more accurate to say that this group of designers, not Wizbro specifically, won't change/fix/redact the 4E redesign. Parent companies generally are solely interested in what generates income, not the smaller details of content within a given product. Sure, they'll have limits on how much you'd go beyond PG-13, or something like that, but otherwise it's primarily about cash flow and keeping product lines up that generate more revenue than other product lines.
At the risk of being controversial, what is it specifically about the new Neverwinter Campaign Guide that makes things "better" for the 4E Realms? I've read it through twice and I'd agree that it was superior to the 4E FRCG for sure, but it contains spellplague areas, plaguechanged monsters, pretty much all of the elements seen in the 4E FRCG. Granted, it does have a lot of rules-related crunchy stuff as well, but I can't say that anything crunchy has ever been a selling point for me in any edition. What is it about this supplement that "makes things better"?
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Female, 40-year DM of a homebrew-evolved 1E Realms, including a few added tidbits of 2E and 3E lore; played originally in AD&D, then in Rolemaster. Be a DM for your kids and grandkids, gaming is excellent for families! |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 20 Sep 2011 : 19:35:57
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Lets just say the 'New Realms' are NOT the ones I grew to love.
Technically, still The Realms, but emotionally, not so much. 
Back when 4eFR first came out, I think someone here at the 'Keep said it best: Its like the difference between a real Palace, and some Disney version. It looks all shiny and cool from the outside, but there isn't much 'behind the curtain'. In the great ocean of RPG settings, alas, FR has been sucked into the shallow end.
IMHO, of course. Your mileage may vary.
And BTW, I have to - in all honesty - admit that much of the 4eFR setting is more useful to me as a DM then the original was. However, I fell in love with the story that was the Forgotten Realms, much more then the backdrop. As far as RPG campaigns go, the new setting is just as good as most others (in other words, it gets the job done, with few bells and whistles). |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 20 Sep 2011 19:37:14 |
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Old Man Harpell
Senior Scribe
USA
497 Posts |
Posted - 21 Sep 2011 : 01:29:23
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quote:
Originally posted by Therise
It might be more accurate to say that this group of designers, not Wizbro specifically, won't change/fix/redact the 4E redesign. Parent companies generally are solely interested in what generates income, not the smaller details of content within a given product. Sure, they'll have limits on how much you'd go beyond PG-13, or something like that, but otherwise it's primarily about cash flow and keeping product lines up that generate more revenue than other product lines.
At the risk of being controversial, what is it specifically about the new Neverwinter Campaign Guide that makes things "better" for the 4E Realms? I've read it through twice and I'd agree that it was superior to the 4E FRCG for sure, but it contains spellplague areas, plaguechanged monsters, pretty much all of the elements seen in the 4E FRCG. Granted, it does have a lot of rules-related crunchy stuff as well, but I can't say that anything crunchy has ever been a selling point for me in any edition. What is it about this supplement that "makes things better"?
No controversy in asking a fair question.
For starters, we aren't going to get away from the Sellplague elements - it's irritating, yes, but in most cases, they're tolerable, if not exactly welcome. The NCS brings the campaign down to the perfect level where the GM is the one to make decisions about such things - I would be disinclined to allow a spellscarred harbinger, for example (and if there are spellscar conversions for Pathfinder, I have yet to see them - though admittedly, I have yet to develop a reason to go searching).
Two points on how it makes it 'better'. One, the setting deliberately (in my opinion) avoids micro-focusing on elements that have anything to do with the Sellplague. Sure, there's Helm's Hold and so forth, but it neatly sidelines the whole Sellplague issue, with absolutely nothing revolving on employing any elements of it. By making it the residence of the Aboleth's servants, the entire thing can be chalked up to weird Lovecraftian influences, and the DM can edit out the Sellplague stuff as they see fit. All this can be done without sacrificing continuity.
Secondly, the timeline and history of the Neverwinter region are little different than that of the rest of the Sword Coast. The city itself actually weathered the Sellplague about as well as the rest of the region - it was an exploding volcano that was the reason the city was ruined, with the trapped primordial easily substituted for any Sellplague excuses. The main focus is (again, in my opinion) presenting a region of devastation that doesn't leave a bitter Halruaa-flavored taste in one's mouth, while at the same time allowing players an opportunity to not only avoid much of the worst elements of the 4th-edition revamp, but to allow them to make a difference in one of the most easily popular locations in the Sword Coast, if not the Realms, while subtly de-emphasizing the 'Points of Light' nonsense (once again, in my opinion).
It has been said by others here, and I agree, that the issue is not the 'crunch', or even the Sellplague, really (very sloppy though the implementation was). It's the 100-year time jump that's got most people's knickers in a knot, with no visible way to (mechanically) 'fix' what was done. The Neverwinter Campaign Setting has, at least, presented us with a toolbox to start repairs, and get that part of the Sword Coast 'functional'. The damage to other places (such as Halruaa) are going to require way, way more than a few Neverwinter-style tools, however - if it's even possible.
The impression I got is that the writers took pains to present it in just this fashion. Sure, they have to give a nod to the Sellplague as a part of it, but in this instance, it's like the sprig of parsley next to the steak and baked potato - easily ignored after the rest is consumed.
- OMH |
Edited by - Old Man Harpell on 21 Sep 2011 01:30:13 |
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Are 4th Ed Realms still THE Realms?
