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phranctoast
Learned Scribe
USA
151 Posts |
 Posted - 22 Aug 2011 : 20:02:45
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My opinions of BED in no way have anything to do with creating a campaign in which I'd of course agree "more info is never bad", but rather how I enjoyed the the story as a novel. Too many instances appeared as plot devices to extend the story. Good guys chasing the good guys for one (which coincidently happens in El's daughter, as well as the Knights trilogy too). The story also appears convoluted with the amount of names of nobles, to the point of unimportance as they'd die soon after. Post Spellplague Cormyr is not too different than pre SP Cormyr. Nobles still plotting against the crown.
@Merrith
Check out the three Cormyr novels from Ed Greenwood/Troy Denning for pre Spellplague Cormyr info. Corymry: The Novel, Beyond the High Road and Death of the Dragon. Great novels that get into the history of Cormyr.
Cormyr to me seems like Ed's baby. I can't recall that many other authors even writing about it other than Ed or troy. |
Currently reading: Spider and Stone by Jaleigh Johnson: Sequel to Mistshore |
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 22 Aug 2011 : 21:24:40
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Well, of course Ed and JEFF GRUBB wrote "Cormyr: A Novel," the first Cormyr book, and Jeff and Kate Novak, his wife, wrote The Wyvern's Spur and several other books set partly or mainly in Cormyr. Not to mention James Lowder's "Crusade."
In the early days of Realms fiction writing, the editors tried to keep writers working with locations that were physically far apart (it was the easiest way to avoid inconsistencies with events, characters, and so on), so once Cormyr was "in use," other writers were largely kept away.
(One of the big behind-the-scenes fights Ed had with the editors was his insistence that Waterdeep be an "open city" that many writers could use/move through; thank goodness he won that fight, because it gave us a lot of books [such as "Elfshadow," which launched Elaine Cunningham's Realms fiction writing career] we'd otherwise never have had.)
love,
THO |
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Merrith
Learned Scribe
135 Posts |
Posted - 23 Aug 2011 : 06:33:40
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quote:
Originally posted by phranctoast@Merrith
Check out the three Cormyr novels from Ed Greenwood/Troy Denning for pre Spellplague Cormyr info. Corymry: The Novel, Beyond the High Road and Death of the Dragon. Great novels that get into the history of Cormyr.
Cormyr to me seems like Ed's baby. I can't recall that many other authors even writing about it other than Ed or troy.
Oh I read all those. Maybe I didn't express my thinking very well above...my thought was that I would love all the details of Cormyr that I can get from this set of Elminster books because I want to know about THIS version of Cormyr, the post Spellplague version.
I love the little details of naming and identifying so many of the nobles as well. Makes the "current" Cormyr feel more real, and gives these families/future Realms stories based in Cormyr history from this time period to build on. |
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Tasker Daze
Seeker
84 Posts |
Posted - 11 Sep 2011 : 05:19:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Curious of the part where Larloch was mentioned, I read the last chapter and skimmed through the epilogue. So the Great Lich was gone and the blueflame items were to bring him back... I don't think I like the sound of that, unless Larloch is being devious of his plans and is actually "alive" and doing his usual business. And oh! How I wish the Simbul fulfilled his threat to crush the cockroach.
We get that you don't like Manshoon. Do you have to call him 'cockroach' every single time you mention him? It's really annoying. |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 11 Sep 2011 : 05:49:12
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That's his real name. I would do him a great disservice if I call him something else. Even Larloch himself calls him that. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3287 Posts |
Posted - 11 Sep 2011 : 09:09:11
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We get it, you dislike Manshoon.
I guess I will go back to my "Chosen of Cyric kick" and be just as annoying.
"All Hail and Praise Cyric Slayer of Mystra..."
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"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 11 Sep 2011 : 09:35:59
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quote:
Originally posted by Brimstone
"All Hail and Praise Cyric Slayer of Mystra..."
Sshh! If he hears you, he might make you Malik 2.0! |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3287 Posts |
Posted - 11 Sep 2011 : 10:47:12
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| Cyric Rules! Mystra Drools! |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3287 Posts |
Posted - 11 Sep 2011 : 10:49:52
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| Malik is a punk anyways. Brimstone the Chosen of Lord Cyric the Great and Mighty is BETTER!! |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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Tasker Daze
Seeker
84 Posts |
Posted - 11 Sep 2011 : 15:49:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
That's his real name. I would do him a great disservice if I call him something else. Even Larloch himself calls him that.
Its not his real name. You do Ed a disservice by calling his creation that, you do everyone who likes Manshoon a disservice by calling him that, and you do everyone a disservice by repeating that every chance you get. |
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Malcolm
Learned Scribe
242 Posts |
Posted - 11 Sep 2011 : 18:05:26
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Loud and firm agreement with Tasker Daze.
Repetition of "cockroach" every time is annoying and childish and drags these boards down.
As Tasker Daze said, we GET that you don't like Manshoon, Dennis. This endless repetition doesn't make other scribes agree with you or appreciate your points; it makes us start to mentally label you a jerk and tune you out. Do us all - including yourself, because we'll start to drift back to giving your views serious consideration - a favor. Just call him Manshoon.
Ed (and other Realms writers and designers, too, but Manshoon was Ed's creation) created a wonderful cast of characters for us all to mull over, speculate about, and enjoy. Don't ruin this for us.
To me, what you've been doing is mentally like the gags involving characters who blow loud fanfares whenever the king is announced, deafening and angering the king and everyone else. I feel deafened and angered, when I should be thinking about whatever is being said about Manshoon. PLEASE put the word "cockroach" away, in this context.
Please? |
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Therise
Master of Realmslore
1272 Posts |
Posted - 11 Sep 2011 : 18:29:45
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Plus, I'll stop calling him Shoonykins. 
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Female, 40-year DM of a homebrew-evolved 1E Realms, including a few added tidbits of 2E and 3E lore; played originally in AD&D, then in Rolemaster. Be a DM for your kids and grandkids, gaming is excellent for families! |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
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Blueblade
Senior Scribe
USA
804 Posts |
Posted - 12 Sep 2011 : 04:02:11
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You actually went back and EDITED your post to ADD IN the term you've been politely asked to stop using?
Incredible. Just . . . incredible. 
BB |
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Baleful Avatar
Learned Scribe
Canada
161 Posts |
Posted - 12 Sep 2011 : 04:07:06
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"That's his real name. I would do him a great disservice if I call him something else. Even Larloch himself calls him that."
Citation please, Dennis.
You're not a Forgotten Realms author, and Larloch is Ed's creation. You shouldn't put words in Larloch's mouth. If Ed had him call Manshoon a "cockroach," fair game. Otherwise, it hardly helps civil discussion. And if the above is your idea of humor, it's probably a good thing you're not an author.
BA |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 12 Sep 2011 : 04:08:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Blueblade
You actually went back and EDITED your post to ADD IN the term you've been politely asked to stop using?
Incredible. Just . . . incredible.
BB
I'm inclined to agree.
Dennis, I can appreciate you've certain feelings regarding Manshoon. But, for the interests of other scribes who may not be aware of your opinions, please utilise his proper name in future.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 12 Sep 2011 : 07:00:34
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Okay. Sure. I was supposed to just edit it. 
Anyway, I just hope that when Larloch finally gets a considerable amount of screen time, he wouldn't be depicted as a drooling bony dog. I understand that most powerful beings were severely affected by the Spellplague. But even Szass Tam retained a shred of dignity after the SP. I think we've got enough of demented characters after the SP (El, The Simbul, etc). No need to add more. Here's to positive thinking... |
Every beginning has an end. |
Edited by - Dennis on 12 Sep 2011 08:10:25 |
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Merrith
Learned Scribe
135 Posts |
Posted - 13 Sep 2011 : 06:46:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Okay. Sure. I was supposed to just edit it.
Anyway, I just hope that when Larloch finally gets a considerable amount of screen time, he wouldn't be depicted as a drooling bony dog. I understand that most powerful beings were severely affected by the Spellplague. But even Szass Tam retained a shred of dignity after the SP. I think we've got enough of demented characters after the SP (El, The Simbul, etc). No need to add more. Here's to positive thinking...
Nothing wrong with showing the very powerful characters a little vulnerable after the Spellplague. Would be a little ridiculous if they all came through unscathed. Makes their stories much more interesting to read as well. |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 13 Sep 2011 : 07:20:30
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Not totally unscathed, but not demented either. Seren from Plague of Spells lost of all the spells she mastered when the SP struck; and she just had to relearn them. She didn't become some wheezing lunatic. Aoth simply became a spellscarred, not a crass mortal. Szass Tam...well, I guess you know what became of him. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Merrith
Learned Scribe
135 Posts |
Posted - 13 Sep 2011 : 07:23:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Not totally unscathed, but not demented either. Seren from Plague of Spells lost of all the spells she mastered when the SP struck; and she just had to relearn them. She didn't become some wheezing lunatic. Aoth simply became a spellscarred, not a crass mortal. Szass Tam...well, I guess you know what became of him.
Indeed...but to those tied a little more closely to the Weave and magic in general you'd expect bigger effects. Obviously Mystra's Chosen fall into this category...and it's always seemed as if Larloch has some deeper connection and mysteries surrounding him (which is where I'm just like you and really hope we get to see/learn some of them in the next book). |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 13 Sep 2011 : 07:39:21
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While Larloch has some special relationship with the goddess of magic, he's not her Chosen. The effects of the SP to the non-Chosen individuals were mostly not as destructive as those to the Chosen themselves. Larloch indeed has a close tie to the Weave, but so does Szass Tam, Aumvor, Ioulaum, and many others. Telamont is closely tied to the Shadow Weave, and that's basically the same, since both the W and the SW were destroyed during the SP. Yet the Most High remained as powerful as ever. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Therise
Master of Realmslore
1272 Posts |
Posted - 13 Sep 2011 : 11:12:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
While Larloch has some special relationship with the goddess of magic, he's not her Chosen. The effects of the SP to the non-Chosen individuals were mostly not as destructive as those to the Chosen themselves. Larloch indeed has a close tie to the Weave, but so does Szass Tam, Aumvor, Ioulaum, and many others. Telamont is closely tied to the Shadow Weave, and that's basically the same, since both the W and the SW were destroyed during the SP. Yet the Most High remained as powerful as ever.
Often, I think "Chosen" is a little overrated. Larloch did indeed have a unique, deep relationship with Lady Mystra. She even made him (out of whole cloth, not retrieving lost ones) a few pages from the Nether Scrolls so he could complete at least one chapter. Larloch was special indeed, Chosen or not.
Additionally, he was involved in projects for Mystra that even the Chosen didn't know about in full detail.
I'd strongly doubt that we've seen the last of old Larloch. He's probably brewing up some tea for when Elminster and Amarune come to visit.
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Female, 40-year DM of a homebrew-evolved 1E Realms, including a few added tidbits of 2E and 3E lore; played originally in AD&D, then in Rolemaster. Be a DM for your kids and grandkids, gaming is excellent for families! |
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Merrith
Learned Scribe
135 Posts |
Posted - 13 Sep 2011 : 17:53:57
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
While Larloch has some special relationship with the goddess of magic, he's not her Chosen. The effects of the SP to the non-Chosen individuals were mostly not as destructive as those to the Chosen themselves. Larloch indeed has a close tie to the Weave, but so does Szass Tam, Aumvor, Ioulaum, and many others. Telamont is closely tied to the Shadow Weave, and that's basically the same, since both the W and the SW were destroyed during the SP. Yet the Most High remained as powerful as ever.
Has there been any canon dealing with what happened to Aumvor or Ioulaum during the SP or if they are still "alive" in the current time of the Realms? |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2011 : 03:03:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Merrith
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
While Larloch has some special relationship with the goddess of magic, he's not her Chosen. The effects of the SP to the non-Chosen individuals were mostly not as destructive as those to the Chosen themselves. Larloch indeed has a close tie to the Weave, but so does Szass Tam, Aumvor, Ioulaum, and many others. Telamont is closely tied to the Shadow Weave, and that's basically the same, since both the W and the SW were destroyed during the SP. Yet the Most High remained as powerful as ever.
Has there been any canon dealing with what happened to Aumvor or Ioulaum during the SP or if they are still "alive" in the current time of the Realms?
Good point. But there's Szass Tam and Telamont, who may not be as powerful as Larloch, but are close enough. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Merrith
Learned Scribe
135 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2011 : 17:10:09
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| I was asking just asking whether or not there had been because I was curious. I assume you haven't seen/heard anything then either. All will be revealed in time I guess. |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 20 Sep 2011 : 12:13:23
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Hopefully Ed is allowed to shed some light. I'm nearly certain it's NDA, but I guess he could try to dance around it and give us something... [The question is now off to his scroll.] |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Therise
Master of Realmslore
1272 Posts |
Posted - 20 Sep 2011 : 16:14:17
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Iolaum is probably still having his giant brain massaged by slaves. It's hard work coordinating all those Illithid.
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Female, 40-year DM of a homebrew-evolved 1E Realms, including a few added tidbits of 2E and 3E lore; played originally in AD&D, then in Rolemaster. Be a DM for your kids and grandkids, gaming is excellent for families! |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 20 Sep 2011 : 16:48:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Merrith
I was asking just asking whether or not there had been because I was curious. I assume you haven't seen/heard anything then either. All will be revealed in time I guess.
Here's what Ed said:
quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
Hi again, all. Dennis, Ed tells me:
"Is The Terraseer really the oldest being in Toril?"
Reply: No. Who is? NDA.
"Did Aumvor and Ioualaum survive the Spellplague?"
Reply: Yes.
"Were they severely weakened? Have they recovered their strength? Or did they emerge from such cataclysm nearly unscathed?"
Replies: NDA, NDA, NDA.
Ed adds: Sorry, but you're just going to have to be patient on these matters. Authors at work, and so on.
love,
THO
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Every beginning has an end. |
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Merrith
Learned Scribe
135 Posts |
Posted - 20 Sep 2011 : 17:26:43
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| Not surprising, but some revelations. Knowing we have at least 4 more Elminster books to delve into some lore I will be patient. The Larloch revelation in BED has me expecting more. |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 21 Sep 2011 : 12:07:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Merrith
Not surprising, but some revelations. Knowing we have at least 4 more Elminster books to delve into some lore I will be patient. The Larloch revelation in BED has me expecting more.
Unfortunately, Larloch wouldn't be making any appearances in Elminster Enraged. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Bury Elminster Deep discussion - SPOILERS
