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Aryalómë
Senior Scribe
USA
666 Posts |
 Posted - 12 Jul 2011 : 04:21:41
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So, I've read lately (and much prior) that there have been male priests in Lolth's clergy. This sparked my interest greatly. Have there been any male priests of Lolth in Menzoberranzan? I would find that quite interesting. ESPECIALLY if that male were from House Baenre. What would he be like? What equipment would he use (the same as priestesses)? How would the priestesses regard him?
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Aryalómë
Senior Scribe
USA
666 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jul 2011 : 04:22:23
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| *Male priests of Lolth |
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Joran Nobleheart
Senior Scribe
USA
495 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jul 2011 : 04:30:14
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| Just a quick word here, if I may. I saw the scroll I opened up about male drow has been sealed, and would ask that this be answered by everyone with great care and forethought. I'd hate seeing this take the same dark path through the woods my own scroll did. |
Paladinic Ethos
Saint Joran Nobleheart |
Edited by - Joran Nobleheart on 12 Jul 2011 04:35:33 |
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_Jarlaxle_
Senior Scribe
Germany
584 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jul 2011 : 08:37:44
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| I really doubt that there are male priests of Lolth, so I would be interested in were you read it? |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jul 2011 : 11:15:59
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I doubt if there's any. Otherwise, the females would cease to "dominate." |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Thieran
Learned Scribe
Germany
293 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jul 2011 : 11:21:50
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Kentinal mentioned it in the other thread:
quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
Side note to Alystra: In 2nd Edition FR Lolth did have male Priests, however no reports was it was believed they ever got high in level. In 3rd Edition it clearly appears Lolth either killed all the males or changed them into females. *wink*
I think he is right, but cannot remember the source at the moment. Will investigate.
Edit: Demihuman Deities (2E), p. 31:
"The clergy of Lolth includes dark elves (94%) and chitines (6%). Of the dark elves, 96% are female; there are male priests of Lolth (4%), but the Spider Queen very rarely allows them to rise above 7th level of experience."
Compare the 3E "Faiths and Pantheons", p. 40:
"Clerics of Lolth pray for spells after waking from trance or before retiring to trance. They are always female."
>> As Kentinal wrote, there was a change between 2E and 3E. |
Edited by - Thieran on 12 Jul 2011 12:02:35 |
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Aryalómë
Senior Scribe
USA
666 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jul 2011 : 14:43:37
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| Yeah, I read that there were male priests of Lolth. Thanks for reminding me where it was, Thieran. I would love to see what kind of taboo it would cause in Menzo. |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3290 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jul 2011 : 15:02:42
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They were all turned into Driders... |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3765 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jul 2011 : 17:36:50
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-I would not expect to see many nale Lolthite Clerics in Menzoberranzan, or other highly orthodox Lolthite cities. In less orthodox cities, however, I don't see why they wouldn't exist. And, given that Selvetarm is now dead, I wouldn't be surprised if the number of male Lolthite Clerics is on the rise. Lolth no longer has Selvetarm to turn them to, and as such, is more likely to take them under her wing directly. In the past, the Church of Lolth, like the churches of Eilistraee and Kiaransalee, has viewed males as something of second-class citizens. Lolth ingeniously directed man who felt that theological calling to the Church of Selvatarm, which she and her church controlled by proxy. So, she received the benefits without losing face. Now that Selvetarm is no longer among the living, I would guess that Lolth would instruct her church to be more tolerant of males within their midst- though, normal Drow norms apply, in terms of female dominance and male submission. She's capricious and cruel, yes, but she's also cunning. A power source such as Selvetarmite Drow males, I don't envision her arbitrarily letting go of.
-As for what a nale Lolthite Cleric would be like, Rai-Guy from Servant of the Shard (and perhaps another related story or short story) is our only example, as far as I can recall. |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know) |
Edited by - Lord Karsus on 12 Jul 2011 17:43:47 |
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Sill Alias
Senior Scribe
Kazakhstan
588 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jul 2011 : 07:42:16
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Actually theoretically you can have male drow priest. Some guides say that there are rare exemplars, but they do not get any powers at all. Therefore few drow (with their craving for power) would try that. Though there is a trick. He cannot directly get spells from Lolth (for obvious reasons), but he can get trust of his mistress and she can be some kind of divine conduct to channel power for spells. Though I would expect his life to be very pathetic, since I do not see much except for life on short leash with spikes.
Now, to find a guide where I read that stuff..........
And yes, I think novel heroes break some rules. |
You can hear many tales from many mouths. The most difficult is to know which of them are not lies. - Sill Alias
"May your harp be unstrung, your dreams die and all your songs be unsung." - curse of the harper, The Code of the Harpers 2 ed.
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Thieran
Learned Scribe
Germany
293 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jul 2011 : 13:51:36
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While I generally agree with your statement that "novel heroes break some rules", I think this does not apply in the specific case Lord Karsus mentioned. Rai-guy first appears in the novel "The Silent Blade" (correct me if that's wrong), which was published in 1998, i.e. at a time when a 2E rulebook (Demihuman Deities, published in December 1998), explicitly stated that male priests of Lolth existed (see my post above).
We can thus conclude that at the time where that particular novel was written, no rule was broken by having a male drow be a priest of Lolth.
But if said novel had been written after the publication of 3E Faiths and Pantheons (in 2002), then a statement from that rulebook would have been at odds with the status of the novel character.
Luckily for Rai-guy, he was killed (in the novel "Servant of the Shard", published in 2000) before people found out that he was not allowed to be a priest of Lolth any longer  |
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Eilserus
Master of Realmslore
USA
1446 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jul 2011 : 17:48:48
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I think Yvonnel, Triel, or Quenthal Baenre(depending on which era you're playing in) would sacrifice any male who attempted such direct service to Lolth. The Baenre clan are hardcore followers of The Way of Lolth. The old demihumans sourcebook states there's an order of crusaders made up of male drow, called the Militant Myrlochar or Order of the Soul Spiders. I imagine they'd be Spiderknights or "paladins" of Lolth, i could see something of that form serving in the Baenre clan. I could totally see Lolth allowing a male serve as a priest in a male controlled society like Sshamath in a form something similar to a traitor priestess.
A male priest of Lolth in Menzo might fly if you have a good backstory, but out of the ruling house it'd be a tough sell. Tho Jarlaxle was supposedly some agent of chaos blessed by Lolth at one point, granted he wasn't a priest, but he is a male. Canon makes it difficult, but I'd do whatever is going to be fun for your campaign. |
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Eltheron
Senior Scribe
740 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jul 2011 : 18:32:52
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The biggest difficulty in 4E with male priests of Lolth (particularly in Menzo) would be the "investiture" problem. In the past, you could secretly worship anyone you wanted and gain priest levels, if the god accepted you; at the time of 2E, Lolth herself didn't usually allow any male priest to advance beyond 7th lvl, which is one reason why they were so rare. But in 4E, all priests must undergo the rite of investiture with a group of clergy to essentially start them on the path of priesthood.
Once that happens, at least in 4E, a male priest could advance in level just as any female, assuming he survives long enough. Once formally invested as a priest in 4E, the gods do not have the ability to block priestly powers any longer. Even if you become a total heretic to the order that gave you investiture. Big change in the rules, really.
I couldn't really see investiture happening in Menzo for a male. Maybe in another city where the culture doesn't focus on female dominance, but not Menzo.
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"The very best possible post-fourteenth-century Realms lets down those who love the specific, detailed social, political and magical situation, with its thousands of characters, developed over forty years, and want to learn more about it; and those who'd be open to a new one with equal depth, which there just isn't time to re-produce; and those repelled, some past the point of no return, by the bad-taste-and-plausibility gap of things done to the world when its guardianship was less careful."
--Faraer |
Edited by - Eltheron on 14 Jul 2011 18:36:16 |
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Males Priests of Lolth
