| Author |
 Topic  |
|
|
Brix
Learned Scribe
147 Posts |
 Posted - 24 Jun 2011 : 18:47:46
|
Dear sages.
I had an idea for an adventure/campaign/setting. I'm seeking your input/ideas on this one:
In the moment of no magic a Netheres city escaped destruction because a powerful contigency spell/other circumstances and was pulled in another dimension/demiplane/Abeir(?). The result: a floating Netherese city above a hostile ground (maybe a jungle or a dense forest, with dangerous inhabitants). Think of the first episodes of Lost with regards to the Forest.
The citizens of this city obviously survived, and lived on their lives in the new place. Now, almost 2000 years later the PCs arrive in this city through some circumstances (maybe a malfunct portal).
How would you imagine that society?
Relations to Deities / Magic?
Who could live below?
What adventure ideas do you have?
Thanks for your help. Maybe find find the idea useful for your own campaign.
|
|
|
|
Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3740 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jun 2011 : 18:56:18
|
| -For comparison, look at the cities of Shade/Thultanthar and Selūnara/Opus. Shade, there's a lot more written about it, about in relation to how it survived in the Plane of Shadows, some of the stuff that happened on their new extraplanar home, etc. |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)
Elves of Faerūn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerūn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium |
 |
|
|
Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2449 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jun 2011 : 18:59:36
|
The question is impossible to answer until we determine exactly where the city got sucked to. Plus, is the city floating, or did it slam into the ground?
Shade is an example of a city doing exactly this: it moved to the Demiplane of Shadow and its people quickly got into a centuries-long war with the Malaugrym, not to mention other nasties. But they would have fared quite differently if they had moved into, say, the Quasiplane of Radiance.
Once we determine where they are (Prime? Demiplane? Inner or Outer Plane? And where exactly?) we can begin to speculate on what happened afterward. |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
|
|
|
Brix
Learned Scribe
147 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jun 2011 : 19:15:38
|
Maybe this would be most interessting, if the city was hurled (intact) to Abeir (I'm not a huge fan of 4E Realms, but this could be a nice opportunity to introduce an alternate Realms)
So maybe the inhabitants had there own tradition (with weave powered magic, a pantheon of that time) and were confronted with a new world archic world of primordial, dragon creatures, new continents, etc.. |
|
Edited by - Brix on 24 Jun 2011 19:36:18 |
|
|
|
Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jun 2011 : 21:20:34
|
Haha, I have no answer for the OP questions. In fact I've never watched a single episode of Lost.quote:
Lord Karsus
For comparison, look at the cities of Shade/Thultanthar and Selūnara/Opus. Shade, there's a lot more written about it, about in relation to how it survived in the Plane of Shadows, some of the stuff that happened on their new extraplanar home, etc.
I'm obviously quite behind on my reading. Where is Thultanthar's history written in some detail? What is Opus and where can I read about it? |
[/Ayrik] |
|
|
|
MrHedgehog
Senior Scribe
688 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jun 2011 : 05:16:53
|
I'm not sure if these are the only places, but I am aware of Opus being described in Netheril: Empire of Magic briefly, as it existed before the fall of Netheril. Then Selunara (Opus' new name? Or co-name. I'm not sure why Netherese cities seem to have multiple names) is described in Lost Empires, and a character from Selunara is described in Waterdeep (an Aasimar Paladin/Sorcerer) None of these contain that many details, though.
UNIQUE(ish) IDEAS:
I think it would depend on which Netherese city this was. One of the ones from the Netheril Box set or one you created yourself. If the world they came to was dangerous they would probably have become fairly insular and unworldly, very afraid of outsiders. Maybe the hostile inhabitants below have no way of attacking them in their flying city? But still they would not be thrilled about or used to people appearing in their city. Since they survived by magic (the contingency spell), I would assume they'd still have a positive view of magic. They might pray to and priests still receive spell from whichever Netherese deity they worshiped, or they might have had to adopt a deity present in whichever world they appeared in. I'd focus on NOT Selune or Shar since they already have cities that survived, or that no deity predominates and they still worship ALL the Netherese Gods. (Targos [Garagos], Jannath [Chauntea], Kozah [Talos], Jergal, Tyche, etc.) Maybe their worship helped keep Garagos and Jergal alive while being mostly forgotten on Toril itself.
Below could be anything, but it seems to me like it would be most interesting for it to be an alien world unlike Toril with alien or very different life forms - at least not human. An entirely or almost entirely ocean covered world? A firey volcano world? Or a jungle, like you said, with humanoids living in villages built in the canopies of colosal trees far above the ground. I've always liked the idea of a world completely covered in dense jungle with such tall trees its a journey to climb to the bottom...trees like the huge tree in Avatar.
Below could be whatever denizens you find most interesting and hostile. Tasloi, Yuan-Ti, Lizard Men, drow (that were never pushed under ground like in Toril), and the like. Or unusually savage and hostile familiar races ( cannibalistic halflings, or gnomes??)
Then perhaps they believed Toril had been destroyed, perhaps that was what their contingency spell was prepared for, so have never attempted to return there. And the campaign could be helping them prepare a spell to return using rare spell components harvested from the terrain, whatever it is, below. Or pieces of an artifact they disassembled and threw down, or that was stolen somehow by people below long long ago... with only vague omens to help them locate them now that they want to or know that they can attempt to return to TOril)
|
Edited by - MrHedgehog on 25 Jun 2011 05:19:20 |
|
|
|
Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3740 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jun 2011 : 05:23:46
|
quote:
Originally posted by Arik
I'm obviously quite behind on my reading. Where is Thultanthar's history written in some detail? What is Opus and where can I read about it?
-Across the Return of the Archwizards trilogy, and various 3e sourcebooks involving the city. There is no one source, but a bunch of different ones, mentioning different things. As Hoondatha said, they got into a war Malaugrym that lasted for centuries. They discovered the process of infusing oneself with the essence of shadow and becoming Shades.
-The city of Opus/Selūnarra is mentioned in Lost Empires of Faerūn. There isn't much besides for that. I always found it a concept that didn't sit well with me- more or less, as described, it's seemingly a "good" version of Shade that Selūne saved when High Netheril was falling, that is in her realm, doing who knows what. |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)
Elves of Faerūn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerūn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium |
|
|
|
The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31748 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jun 2011 : 06:39:59
|
| Opus's save from apparent demise during Karsus's Folly was briefly referenced in the entry for Opus in the Netheril: Empire of Magic boxed set. Whereupon it becomes Selūnarra in Lost Empires of Faerūn and [as of 3e] now resides in Selūne's realm. Along with LEoF, you'll find more about Opus/Selūnarra within the N:EoM boxed set. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
|
|
|
Brix
Learned Scribe
147 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jun 2011 : 11:44:31
|
Nice Ideas
MrHedgehog
"Then perhaps they believed Toril had been destroyed"
Yes. Lorekeepers are very important to them. There is a place where they keep records.
In their new world they were not able to wield such potent magic or use everyday magic for easy tasks.
Maybe they even feel abandoned by Mystryl, and prohibit Magic at all. Then there could be a secret cabal of magic users, and hidden vaults of arcane knowledge.
As for clerics. One scenario could be that the gods were silent as well. Only a few people remember the old gods they revered 2000 years ago. Or the Netheres lost interesst in some gods, because they play no more important roles in their everyday life. Maybe only Amaunathor is remaining as the major deity (since the sun is somehow important on that sky isle).
|
|
|
|
|
Brix
Learned Scribe
147 Posts |
|
|
Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36800 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jun 2011 : 15:07:00
|
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus
-The city of Opus/Selūnarra is mentioned in Lost Empires of Faerūn. There isn't much besides for that. I always found it a concept that didn't sit well with me- more or less, as described, it's seemingly a "good" version of Shade that Selūne saved when High Netheril was falling, that is in her realm, doing who knows what.
It is my opinion that they should have gone ahead and brought back Selūnarra -- not so much as the good version of Shade, but as another political entity that would, among other things, oppose Shade. For example, I think the Selūnarrans would have an interest in seeing Netheril reborn, as well, and that their vision of what Netheril 2.0 should be wouldn't be the same as Shade's vision -- leading to plenty of possibilities for adventure and intrigue. I also think that Selūnarra would agree with most of the goals of the Lords' Alliance and with the Harpers/Moonstars, and would ally with those groups, but would studiously make sure they didn't join those groups. I think there was much potential there, and like so much else in the 3.x era, it was wasted. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
|
|
|
The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31748 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jun 2011 : 15:46:11
|
| Another possibility, I think, is the likelihood that, perhaps, the current generation of inhabitants of Opus, the aasimar [descended from the natives of the enclave], have simply come to adopt a mindset similar to that of other celestial types. And are now, thus, less interested in Torilian matters -- instead focusing on events across the Gates of the Moon. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
|
|
|
Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3740 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jun 2011 : 16:16:54
|
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
It is my opinion that they should have gone ahead and brought back Selūnarra -- not so much as the good version of Shade, but as another political entity that would, among other things, oppose Shade. For example, I think the Selūnarrans would have an interest in seeing Netheril reborn, as well, and that their vision of what Netheril 2.0 should be wouldn't be the same as Shade's vision -- leading to plenty of possibilities for adventure and intrigue. I also think that Selūnarra would agree with most of the goals of the Lords' Alliance and with the Harpers/Moonstars, and would ally with those groups, but would studiously make sure they didn't join those groups. I think there was much potential there, and like so much else in the 3.x era, it was wasted.
-If that happened, I would have banged my head against a proverbial wall. I much prefer that, as Sage speculates, they're "above" such matters, having lived in the Gates of the Moon for so long, and have their own agendas. I don't like that Shade came back with the goal of creating a reborn Netheril; if Selūnarra was doing the same, even if diametrically opposed to what Shade was doing, that'd be double the 'ugh factor'. |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)
Elves of Faerūn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerūn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium |
|
|
|
MrHedgehog
Senior Scribe
688 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jun 2011 : 08:57:09
|
Why do people not like Shade? I've heard people say they don't like it, but never why. Is it too high fantasy? Or does it not seem logical?
I don't know anything about Abeir. Is it mentioned only in 4th edition? |
|
|
|
Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36800 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jun 2011 : 15:25:48
|
quote:
Originally posted by MrHedgehog
Why do people not like Shade? I've heard people say they don't like it, but never why. Is it too high fantasy? Or does it not seem logical?
My objection to Shade is that we have one single city, with a large number of spellslingers, which has become the villain du jour of the Realms. Despite starting off as just the one city, they've made very large gains in the Realms since, have come across as practically unstoppable, and the focus of just about every major plot. For example, in 4E, the original Harpers dissolved, but were later reformed with the express intent of opposing Shade.
quote:
Originally posted by MrHedgehog
I don't know anything about Abeir. Is it mentioned only in 4th edition?
Prior to 4E, the name of the world where the Realms are was Abeir-Toril, often just called Toril. In 4E, Abeir suddenly became (as in, was ret-conned into) a parallel world, and bits of it wound up on Toril during the Sellplague. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
|
|
|
MrHedgehog
Senior Scribe
688 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jun 2011 : 03:59:34
|
| I have no big problem with the idea of the City of Shade, as it is presented in 3rd edition. Although i've looked at the 4th edition books I didn't look too closely, and there were so few details that I could see so I can't comment on the changes. I agree that it was presented as being bizzarely overpowered, even compared to other cities that are supposed to be far more powerful than their size would suggest. In Menzoberranzan there are many high level beings, but none so powerful as the Princes of Shade... |
|
|
|
Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3740 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jun 2011 : 17:30:03
|
quote:
Originally posted by MrHedgehog
Why do people not like Shade? I've heard people say they don't like it, but never why. Is it too high fantasy? Or does it not seem logical?
-I simply prefer my ancient empires to be defunct. As far as the things Shade has done since returning to Faerūn, I have no problem (and like many of them). I take umbrage (pun intended) to them calling themselves 'Reborn Netheril'. Same thing goes with the 4e resurrection of Immaskar. Ancient, defunct empires should stay ancient, defunct empires. Having them return takes away a great deal of their allure. |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)
Elves of Faerūn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerūn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium |
|
|
|
MrHedgehog
Senior Scribe
688 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jul 2011 : 08:06:33
|
I am now going to actually use this idea for a campaign. I am curious what you all think of my ideas. (The people I am going to play with are unfamiliar with the Forgotten Realms)
I decided that my players will stumble through a portal to Opus while exploring Netherese ruins.
Opus will have been transported to the hostile world by accident during the Spellplague, and it will take place in the 4th edition world (where there is an empire of Netheril...) The people of Opus believed Selune died because she cannot answer their prayers in this other world, and that Toril was successfully destroyed by Shar. An organization called "The Seekers" will have been exploring the the ruins seeking items to help them combat Netheril's expansionism.
Their main contact in the city will be Lady Arilain, who has extended her life by magic, will want the PCs help to prepare a ritual to transport them to Toril to combat the Shadovar. However, other leaders in the city (A Council of Five) will have other goals such as returning to the Gates of the Moon rather than Toril (Quella a Chaotic Good half-celestial Priestess), returning to join the Empire of Netheril as co-conquerors (Antolinez the Awful - a Lawful Evil human Archmage) , or continuing to remain in the new world (Fiona, a Chaotic Neutral Sorceress)
I will have Chever have been returned to life by a miracle and True Resurrection (or ignore that Canon said he died). But have his mind not function well because of his extreme age, and he is holed up in a tower in near eternal meditation. An epic spell he'll have cast on Opus will trap most of the population in Opus (to protect them) as another reason the PCs are needed to help them. Perhaps Lady Arilain has amulets that circumvent the spell so some Opusari can go down into the world to collect supplies, etc. and then aid in her own plans to return to Toril. (Or whoever of the leaders they choose to cooperate with, the players haven't made characters yet and I wanted them to choose a direction)
I won't have had the entire population become Aasimar, maybe 5-10%.
What other things do you think I should take into consideration? |
|
|
|
Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36800 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jul 2011 : 10:53:19
|
| Why do they think Toril was destroyed, and why by Shar? And if they think it was destroyed, why are they wanting to be transported there? |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
|
|
|
MrHedgehog
Senior Scribe
688 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jul 2011 : 18:02:48
|
Oops, maybe I shouldn't write things at 4 a.m.
I hadn't completely thought it through. I was thinking because their contingency spell went off transporting them to this new world and it would have been designed to transport them only if they would have been destroyed in realms pace. Prior to the Spellplague they would have been in the Gates of the Moon (in my mind, planning to return to Toril eventually) Or perhaps the contingency spell was intended to transport them to Toril, with the other Prime World as a destination being unintended.
Selune is unable to communicate with them there. (No Gods present in world, like in Dark Sun) So they may think she is dead, especially after having been so close to her residing in her divine realm. My impression of people who worship Selune is that they would know of Shar's ultimate goal to return the world to nothingness (or that is how I envision Shar)
The PCs would be from a non-destroyed Toril and that is how they would discover it still exists, Selune is alive, and the Shadovar have created an oppressive new Netherese Empire sullying the Opusari's heritage. |
|
|
|
Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36800 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jul 2011 : 23:05:05
|
quote:
Originally posted by MrHedgehog
Oops, maybe I shouldn't write things at 4 a.m.
I hadn't completely thought it through. I was thinking because their contingency spell went off transporting them to this new world and it would have been designed to transport them only if they would have been destroyed in realms pace. Prior to the Spellplague they would have been in the Gates of the Moon (in my mind, planning to return to Toril eventually) Or perhaps the contingency spell was intended to transport them to Toril, with the other Prime World as a destination being unintended.
Problems: 1) How is the contingency spell going to work, without magic to make it go? 2) Why would potential destruction of the enclave equate to destruction of the world?
quote:
Originally posted by MrHedgehog
Selune is unable to communicate with them there. (No Gods present in world, like in Dark Sun) So they may think she is dead, especially after having been so close to her residing in her divine realm. My impression of people who worship Selune is that they would know of Shar's ultimate goal to return the world to nothingness (or that is how I envision Shar)
Actually, a lot of Shar's own followers don't know that. Selūnites would know that Shar and Selūne don't get along, but not Shar's ultimate goal.
quote:
Originally posted by MrHedgehog
The PCs would be from a non-destroyed Toril and that is how they would discover it still exists, Selune is alive, and the Shadovar have created an oppressive new Netherese Empire sullying the Opusari's heritage.
As someone else mentioned in the other thread, I think you're better off creating your own enclave, and taking it on a planar journey sometime before the Fall. Perhaps the belief that Toril was destroyed could come from the dying ramblings of a Fall survivor, who wound up in this enclave after the Fall. Here's how I'd do it: maybe a year before the Fall, this enclave goes off exploring the planes. After they've been gone a while, one of the most prominent mages pops back to Netheril, to see how things are going. He arrives just in time for the Fall. He survives the Fall itself, but is mortally injured. Magic comes back online just in time to activate his contingency magics, which take him home. Back on the enclave, his battered form pops back into existence in front of everyone, he screams "It's gone, it's all gone!" and then dies. People jump to conclusions, especially when they can't contact anyone they left behind in Netheril...
For the Shar angle, you could do a religious schism that leads to her followers being exiled, and/or have some powerful servant/follower(s) of hers cause a lot of damage to the enclave/its people. Something like that would give good cause for enmity towards Shar and her followers. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
|
|
|
MrHedgehog
Senior Scribe
688 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jul 2011 : 19:19:02
|
Perhaps it functions as magic is failing. Also during the Spellplague didn't magic just malfunction, rather than cease functioning? Szass Tam didn't suddenly turn into a corpse even though he is just an animated corpse, right? I was thinking that Opus was in The Gates of the Moon when it was sent to the other world, rather than having been in the other world for thousands of years already.
I hadn't thought that. Wouldn't Selune know and then communicate this to her followers through communion or something?
Your idea is a good idea, and definetely more logical and consistent. We wouldn't be playing for several more weeks (I work every evening from 5-9 right now for Canada's Census) so i'll think on it.
I just wanted to use Opus because I like the idea of it the most (and what a beautiful name for a city! = D ). Opus seemed like the sort of setting i'd like to use, but maybe another city could have been similar? My players are completely unfamiliar with the Forgotten Realms even at a basic level so I don't think they'd worry about anything not matching up with realms lore |
|
|
|
Brix
Learned Scribe
147 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jul 2011 : 22:17:31
|
| I solved the problem by putting the shift before Karsus Folly |
|
|
|
|
MrHedgehog
Senior Scribe
688 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jul 2011 : 01:13:04
|
| But then they would have adapted to the new world by now and not be aasimar/devas :o |
|
|
| |
Topic |
|
|
|
Floating Netherese City in another dimension
