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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
 Posted - 29 Apr 2011 : 12:04:57
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Those few remaining moments before a character dies are often so important to us. They either move us, making the novel one of our most unforgettable, or they make us regret we bother to pick up the book. Some deaths make sense, while some don’t . . . Which deaths do you think are handled well, and which are not? (Please exclude Mystra’s. I’m afraid it might once again spark a heated debate.)
My list will change as I try to recall others. These are what I remember at the moment:
Handled well:
1. Brennus’s mother in Continuum. It was short, but the intensity with which Paul wrote it is so palpable.
2. Telemachon’s in The Shadow Stone. I like the inevitability of it.
3. Yaphyll’s in The Haunted Lands. Quite understandable. Despite her powers, I don’t think she stood a chance against the Blue Fire’s effects.
4. Madryoch’s in The Shadow Stone. That is, if he really died in that explosion. At the third quarter of the book I began to like Aeron, but, despite how “advanced” he had become as a shadow mage, I woud have found it impossible that he’d “directly” killed a four thousand-year old Imaskari archmage. Thankfully, the Stone’s explosion did it for him.
5. Karsus’s in Dangerous Games. The greatest lesson for wizards.
Not handled well:
1 .Fineghal Caillaen’s in The Shadow Stone. I understand the effects of the Shadow Stone corrupted the Weave’s presence in Chessanta, and so spellcasters who were dependent on the Weave were at a disadvantage. But he’s an archmage and lived far too long. Surely, he deserved a noble death—not a few stabs from common thugs.
2. Dmitra’s in Undead. I still couldn’t understand how a monk—who didn’t know magic at that time—managed to break the most powerful spell of an accomplished illusionist.
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Every beginning has an end. |
Edited by - Dennis on 21 Apr 2013 12:15:21
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
8030 Posts |
Posted - 29 Apr 2011 : 13:54:03
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| Monks - at least originally in 1E - had all sorts of wonderful powers for spell saves and resistances; at high levels they were largely immune to a lot of serious magic and even had certain psionic powers. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Chosen of Asmodeus
Master of Realmslore
1221 Posts |
Posted - 29 Apr 2011 : 14:56:20
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While I'm in favor of Triel's death, I don't think it was handled well mainly because it happened off screen and received only passing mention.
I'd also list Catti-brie and Regis' deaths as handled poorly. Catti gets put on a bus for one novel, turned into a prop for the next, gets to have sex with Drizzt(pretty much all of her scenes after The Orc King involve her having sex with Drizzt, actually...), then gets carried off by a unicorn to an afterlife that stands in complete defiance of all rules of death and the afterlife in Faerun. It's a mess, and a disservice to the character(granted, I never liked the character much, but still this was bad). |
"Then I saw there was a way to Hell even from the gates of Heaven"
- John Bunyan, Pilgrim's Progress
Fatum Iustum Stultorum. Righteous is the destiny of fools.
The Roleplayer's Gazebo;
http://theroleplayersgazebo.yuku.com/directory#.Ub4hvvlJOAY |
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Kilvan
Senior Scribe
Canada
896 Posts |
Posted - 29 Apr 2011 : 15:03:11
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I'd have to say Ryld's in WotSQ (5th in the serie I think). I don't think it made sense that his uber-sword got broken in half by a woodman's axe, only to be himself torn in half by the demon's claws right after. I'm not too fond of Pharaun's death either, but at least it made some sense.
Best death ever: Blackstaff's (though I'll never accept it!) |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3763 Posts |
Posted - 29 Apr 2011 : 16:25:59
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-The best "death scenes" I can think of off the top of my head are:
Alashar in "Continuum", Paul Kemp's short storm in Realms of War.
King Azoun IV in Death of the Dragon.
Khelben Arunson, in Blackstaff.
Wu, in Dragonwall.
* Either poignant, or just impressive in how it happened. |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know) |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 29 Apr 2011 : 19:11:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Kilvan
I'd have to say Ryld's in WotSQ (5th in the serie I think). I don't think it made sense that his uber-sword got broken in half by a woodman's axe, only to be himself torn in half by the demon's claws right after.
If I remember it right, Ryld said he was "proud" [or he saw it fitting, or something of that nature] that it took a draegloth to end his life.
---
I think Dyrr's death was handled okay.
quote:
Originally posted by Kilvan
Best death ever: Blackstaff's (though I'll never accept it!)
I don't know. Maybe. But I didn't want him to die. Waterdeep becomes a little boring without him. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Marc
Senior Scribe
662 Posts |
Posted - 29 Apr 2011 : 22:22:09
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| Deaths of Sarya and Malkizid were just forgettable, pure lack of dramatic and epic atmosphere |
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sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
Posted - 30 Apr 2011 : 00:34:34
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Malkizid is ummmm how to say this... not dead.
he was trapped between planes and still is, but as powerful as he is, he might of found a way out .... |
why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power
My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234 |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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Elfinblade
Senior Scribe
Norway
377 Posts |
Posted - 30 Apr 2011 : 02:18:53
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In my opinion, the following are not to my taste:
-Halaster.
-Gwydion the quick.
-Cattie Brie and Regis.
Handled well:
-Jak Fleet.
-Erevis Cale.
-Azoun Obarskyr.
-Khelben Arunsun
-SPOILER for Gauntlgrym, for those of you who havent read it yet. Highlight: Bruenor & Pwent. A Fitting end, finally. |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 30 Apr 2011 : 04:38:03
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I think Sammaster's death was handled well. The bastard deserved the rest after centuries of mad scheming.
Pavel Shemov's was...to put it simply, noble. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3763 Posts |
Posted - 30 Apr 2011 : 04:55:57
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| -Forgot about Jak Fleet. Yeah, his death scene and afterward was very nicely done. |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know) |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 30 Apr 2011 : 05:00:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Dagnirion
-Forgot about Jak Fleet. Yeah, his death scene and afterward was very nicely done.
Haven't yet finished Midnight's Mask, and will try to get back to it tomorrow. I wouldn't doubt his death was done well. Paul rarely disappoints.
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Barreris's and Mirror's deaths are touching. Dying for the sake of others may seem a cliche in fantasy. But when it's done well, that's where it matters. |
Every beginning has an end. |
Edited by - Dennis on 30 Apr 2011 05:01:06 |
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idilippy
Senior Scribe
USA
417 Posts |
Posted - 30 Apr 2011 : 16:45:46
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For deaths handled well:
Erevis Cale
Abelar the Paladin of Lathander
Mask, I dislike having this god die but the scene as it was written was excellent to me.
Death's I'm uncertain of:
Pharaun, his final battle against the yugoloth Inthracis was an excellent moment for the character, but then to be left paralyzed by Quenthel to die was annoying to me.
Vhaeraun, while itmakes sense that he should die trying to kill his sister in her own realm, I never really felt it made much sense for him to even try to assassinate her while Lloth was still around.
Kiaransalee, I like the idea of her name being wiped from the minds of everyone instantly, though I am a bit iffy about mortal magic, even high magic, having that much power to influence even the gods' minds.
Death's I think were handled very poorly:
Helm's death. To die offscreen, due to a misunderstanding with Tyr over Tymora, is utterly terrible in my opinion.
Elistraee, redemption does not work that way, and neither do avatars in my opinion. Having the actual deity die while possessing a mortal is bad enough, but then to have that death instantly change the appearance of half of the drow in the world, based solely on what bloodline they came from, is a ridiculous notion in my opinion, especially since by previous lore nothing prevented drow who worshiped the Seldarine from entering Arvandor anyways.
Mystra, just going to leave it at being badly handled in my opinion. |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 30 Apr 2011 : 17:26:17
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Cale is not dead.
I agree that Abelar's and Mask's deaths were handled excellently. I didn't like Abelar. All that brooding was really annoying. But he was a good man and deserved an honorable death. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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Zireael
Master of Realmslore
Poland
1190 Posts |
Posted - 30 Apr 2011 : 19:53:32
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Handled well:
Azoun Obarskyr
Khelben Arunsun
Tanalasta Obarskyr
Karsus
(I won't give arguments for them as I'd repeat what previous scribes have said)
Jeggred (the scene is just awesome)
K'yorl Odran (the destruction of her house)
Dyrr (the awesome spellduel)
Wulfgar's apparent death in the battle with the yochlol (awesome scene)
Vierna Do'Urden (makes perfect sense)
Malice Do'Urden (as above)
Handled poorly:
Ryld
Pharaun
Triel (off-screen)
Matron Baenre (Yvonnel) at Mithral Hall (what, an axe just killed her?)
Catti-brie & Regis (off-screen)
Helm
Mystra
Eilistraee/Qilue Veladorn
Maura Silverhand (did I mention I hate off-screen deaths? no?) |
SiNafay Vrinn, the daughter of Lloth, from Ched Nasad!
http://zireael07.wordpress.com/ |
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idilippy
Senior Scribe
USA
417 Posts |
Posted - 30 Apr 2011 : 20:31:43
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quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
idilippy, I'll agree with most of those, though I might point out that it wasn't Eilistraee's DEATH that caused them to change, it was quarlynd's ritual, which was already started when she died.
Ah, I thought I read that her death helped the ritual along by making Corelleon take notice or something, but it's possible I'm misremembering that part. I only read the ending to that series once so might have the exact details of the redemption ritual screwed up now. Point still stands on the redemption based on bloodlines thing though.
quote:
Cale is not dead
Heh, yeah possibly not irreversibly dead(Can't wait for Kemp's next series!), but his "death" scene facing Mephistopheles is close enough to death for the Forgotten Realms. |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3763 Posts |
Posted - 30 Apr 2011 : 21:48:29
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quote:
Originally posted by idilippy
Abelar the Paladin of Lathander
-He died? I don't even remember. Another book/series I should re-read...One of my favorite characters, too.
quote:
Originally posted by idilippy
Kiaransalee, I like the idea of her name being wiped from the minds of everyone instantly, though I am a bit iffy about mortal magic, even high magic, having that much power to influence even the gods' minds.
-Not having any mortal worshipers in Realmspace wouldn't technically kill a deity, either. Without worshipers, deities still have the inherent power of their portfolios to sustain them. |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know) |
Edited by - Lord Karsus on 30 Apr 2011 21:48:50 |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 01 May 2011 : 05:09:59
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quote:
Originally posted by idilippy
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Cale is not dead
Heh, yeah possibly not irreversibly dead(Can't wait for Kemp's next series!), but his "death" scene facing Mephistopheles is close enough to death for the Forgotten Realms.
He's swimming in the vast cavern of Mephistopheles's tummy, waiting for Mask or his son (or both) to take him back.
--------
Zireal,
In which novel was Yvonnel's death featured? |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3763 Posts |
Posted - 01 May 2011 : 06:10:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
He's swimming in the vast cavern of Mephistopheles's tummy, waiting for Mask or his son (or both) to take him back.
-Hope not.
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
In which novel was Yvonnel's death featured?
-Siege of Darkness. |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know) |
Edited by - Lord Karsus on 01 May 2011 06:12:36 |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3290 Posts |
Posted - 01 May 2011 : 06:16:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Zireael
Matron Baenre (Yvonnel) at Mithral Hall (what, an axe just killed her?)
It was a Dwarven Axe thank you very much...Nuff Said! |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 01 May 2011 : 06:20:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Dagnirion
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
In which novel was Yvonnel's death featured?
-Siege of Darkness.
Thanks, Dagnirion. {Now craning my neck to check if it's in my tall piles of To-Read.} |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3290 Posts |
Posted - 01 May 2011 : 08:30:39
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
quote:
Originally posted by Dagnirion
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
In which novel was Yvonnel's death featured?
-Siege of Darkness.
Thanks, Dagnirion. {Now craning my neck to check if it's in my tall piles of To-Read.}
Well is it? |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 01 May 2011 : 09:04:55
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Nope. But that's fine. I'll scour our bookstores later.  Or my assistant will. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Chosen of Asmodeus
Master of Realmslore
1221 Posts |
Posted - 01 May 2011 : 09:08:02
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I'm not sure whether I want to list Obould's death as handled well or handled poorly. On one hand, I think it's fitting he died of old age. Kelemvor had to take him in his sleep; if he'd been awake, there would have been a fight.
On the other hand, I just wish they could have gotten a little more milage out of him before he died off screen. Oh well, probably for the best. Nothing kills badassery more than over-exposure. |
"Then I saw there was a way to Hell even from the gates of Heaven"
- John Bunyan, Pilgrim's Progress
Fatum Iustum Stultorum. Righteous is the destiny of fools.
The Roleplayer's Gazebo;
http://theroleplayersgazebo.yuku.com/directory#.Ub4hvvlJOAY |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 01 May 2011 : 09:18:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Chosen of Asmodeus
Nothing kills badassery more than over-exposure.
There's no over-exposure. Only bad exposure. A character may continue to live a very long time and make a lot of "appearances" and still retain his "value," as long he's "handled" well. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Chosen of Asmodeus
Master of Realmslore
1221 Posts |
Posted - 01 May 2011 : 09:21:25
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| A debatable point with a lot of semantics in it but fair enough. |
"Then I saw there was a way to Hell even from the gates of Heaven"
- John Bunyan, Pilgrim's Progress
Fatum Iustum Stultorum. Righteous is the destiny of fools.
The Roleplayer's Gazebo;
http://theroleplayersgazebo.yuku.com/directory#.Ub4hvvlJOAY |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 02 May 2011 : 03:32:41
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Triel's. I don't think she deserved the throne. Being the Matron entails not only intelligence - which I know she did possess - but also strong will, enough dose of cruelty, and assertiveness.
Upon further consideration, I deleted this from my list of deaths that are handled well. While I understand the appropriateness of her death, I agree with my fellow scribes that its being off screen hardly makes it well done. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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jordanz
Senior Scribe
556 Posts |
Posted - 02 May 2011 : 22:56:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Kilvan
I'd have to say Ryld's in WotSQ (5th in the serie I think). I don't think it made sense that his uber-sword got broken in half by a woodman's axe, only to be himself torn in half by the demon's claws right after. I'm not too fond of Pharaun's death either, but at least it made some sense.
Best death ever: Blackstaff's (though I'll never accept it!)
+1 Both of those characters were removed before they ever had a chance to be fully developed. Both very popular with readers, and both possibly could have carried a series of novels on their own...
Pharuan reminded me somewhat of Jarlaxle only perhaps a bit more sinister while almost as wily. Ryld was just too bad ass to go out like that.
Wulfgar's death was handled poorly simply because it hasn't been handled at all...
Wulfgar could have united the Barbarian tribes!
He could have been awarded a boon (similar to Obould) by the mighty Tempus himself!
Instead we get little mention of whatever became of him.
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Deaths That Are Handled Well (Spoilers)
