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jordanz
Senior Scribe
556 Posts |
 Posted - 25 Mar 2011 : 02:12:05
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Is he now permanently dead or just his material form? If the latter, is he now able to comeback since 100 years has elapsed since his defeat t the hands of Drizzt and friends.
P.S. Drizzt banished him twice? How was Ertuu able to come back the 2nd time before the 100 year limit?
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 25 Mar 2011 : 02:44:09
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I don't know particulars for Ertuu ... and I haven't read more recent Drizzt novels so for all I know it might just be that the second banishing occurred after the timejump.
There are other canon examples of banished fiends continuing to wreak havoc after banishment. Orcus is perhaps the foremost example. Fiends might reenter the Realms (or another world) after banishment by being once again summoned and bound (as did Mephistopheles, for instance, when he appeared in the place of another summoned devil who was now "in his service" after some hellish power struggle). Fiends are known to be linked to powerful artifacts (such as the Crenshinibon in Ertuu's case). Basically, they may be "forbidden" to reenter the world through their own volition but may still become manifest at the behest of somebody else's will; powerful fiends often employ the strategy of allowing their true names, binding spells, artifacts, and magics exist simply to provide a foothold on any world whereupon dwells any race of fools arrogant enough to summon them ... they understand that their service is always temporary and will ultimately feed their evil. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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Fellfire
Master of Realmslore
1965 Posts |
Posted - 25 Mar 2011 : 03:39:43
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Time circuits on...flux capacitor is fluxing, check. yep, Errtu is... EVIL |
Misanthorpe
Love is a lie. Only hate endures. Light is blinding. Only in darkness do we see clearly.
"Oh, you think darkness is your ally? You merely adopted the dark. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn't see the light until I was already a man, by then it was nothing to me but.. blinding. The shadows betray you because they belong to me." - Bane The Dark Knight Rises
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Chosen of Asmodeus
Master of Realmslore
1221 Posts |
Posted - 25 Mar 2011 : 07:56:40
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Your sensors are off. He's chaotic evil.
And yea, there certainly is the possibility of him returning post timeskip. Really haven't been any hints of it what-so-ever but it's possible. |
"Then I saw there was a way to Hell even from the gates of Heaven"
- John Bunyan, Pilgrim's Progress
Fatum Iustum Stultorum. Righteous is the destiny of fools.
The Roleplayer's Gazebo;
http://theroleplayersgazebo.yuku.com/directory#.Ub4hvvlJOAY |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 25 Mar 2011 : 11:16:23
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| My flux capacitor is broken. I intend to order a replacement in 2073 so I haven't got a clue why it hasn't yet arrived. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Fellfire
Master of Realmslore
1965 Posts |
Posted - 25 Mar 2011 : 12:11:40
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| Banks! Investments! Ptah! I keep all of my money in the future, where it's safe. |
Misanthorpe
Love is a lie. Only hate endures. Light is blinding. Only in darkness do we see clearly.
"Oh, you think darkness is your ally? You merely adopted the dark. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn't see the light until I was already a man, by then it was nothing to me but.. blinding. The shadows betray you because they belong to me." - Bane The Dark Knight Rises
Green Dragonscale Dice Bag by Crystalsidyll - check it out
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3290 Posts |
Posted - 25 Mar 2011 : 12:14:03
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BEAST will know...
I do know that Ertuu tricked Drizzt into bringing him back to the material plane. He made Drizzt think he had Zak in his possession. It was Wulfgar...
I 3.5E game terms I would make him an advanced hit die Balor... |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 25 Mar 2011 : 12:35:39
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Ertuu is described as a Balor at various sites (such as this one).
Why would ye assign advanced hit dice, Brimstone? From Crenshinibon? Balors are quite bad enough already. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Eldacar
Senior Scribe
438 Posts |
Posted - 25 Mar 2011 : 13:19:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Arik
Ertuu is described as a Balor at various sites (such as this one).
Why would ye assign advanced hit dice, Brimstone? From Crenshinibon? Balors are quite bad enough already.
I'd probably advance his HD as well. Errtu is, I believe, a lord of an Abyssal layer, so he should either have the Demon Lord template (Dragon #359) tacked on to his Balor-ness, or his HD advanced to make him bigger, stronger and tougher than the other demons on his layer. Possibly both. Kicking him up to 25 HD or so (Malcanthet, for reference, is 25 HD, and she's one of the weakest of the demon lords) should be enough. |
"The Wild Mages I have met exhibit a startling disregard for common sense, and are often meddling with powers far beyond their own control." ~Volo
"Not unlike a certain travelogue author with whom I am unfortunately acquainted." ~Elminster |
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jordanz
Senior Scribe
556 Posts |
Posted - 25 Mar 2011 : 17:24:02
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| Still dying to know...It would make sense that Drizzt would be preparing for Ertuu's return. |
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Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
Posted - 25 Mar 2011 : 17:39:35
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quote:
Originally posted by jordanz
Still dying to know...It would make sense that Drizzt would be preparing for Ertuu's return.
I would say yes, but it really depends on what the editors at WotC have in store for Drizzt (or it depends upon R.A. Salvatore's desire and ability to bring Ertuu back depending on what WotC has in store for Drizzt). |
Errant d20 Designer - My Blog (last updated January 06, 2016)
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3290 Posts |
Posted - 25 Mar 2011 : 20:02:33
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I know N'Dulu from Champions of Ruin is a 32HD Balor. Thats the max.
I would at least make Ertuu his equal. Maybe just a little weaker. |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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Chosen of Asmodeus
Master of Realmslore
1221 Posts |
Posted - 25 Mar 2011 : 20:35:34
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| I've always considered Errtu to be something of a joke, really. You know that guy in Kung-Pow: Enter the Fist that the martial arts masters trained badly as a joke? That's Errtu for the demon lords. |
"Then I saw there was a way to Hell even from the gates of Heaven"
- John Bunyan, Pilgrim's Progress
Fatum Iustum Stultorum. Righteous is the destiny of fools.
The Roleplayer's Gazebo;
http://theroleplayersgazebo.yuku.com/directory#.Ub4hvvlJOAY |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 25 Mar 2011 : 22:26:45
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An Abyssal Demon Lord template? I mislike criticizing an article I haven't even read, but the concept seems a little ridiculous.
I don't recall Ertuu being mentioned as a demon lord, though of course he would probably make such a grandoise claim while intimidating people, and of course my memory (especially of things Drizzt) is not perfect. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Eldacar
Senior Scribe
438 Posts |
Posted - 26 Mar 2011 : 01:40:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Arik
An Abyssal Demon Lord template? I mislike criticizing an article I haven't even read, but the concept seems a little ridiculous.
It's meant to allow you to design creatures of the Abyss that are lords of a particular Abyssal layer (though some demon lords in fact aren't rulers of a layer, such as Ardat or Lascer), and to give each one a particular theme (so they aren't all carbon copies - the template has variance within itself to ensure that they can all differ).
Using the scale given, no demon lord should be lower than CR 22, only Demogorgon (as Prince of Demons) should be CR 33, very few should be above CR 30, and most should sit between CR 26-29. The template itself starts out at a +2 CR (give or take), which increases as necessary depending on what sort of variance you use. |
"The Wild Mages I have met exhibit a startling disregard for common sense, and are often meddling with powers far beyond their own control." ~Volo
"Not unlike a certain travelogue author with whom I am unfortunately acquainted." ~Elminster |
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3567 Posts |
Posted - 26 Mar 2011 : 02:29:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Chosen of Asmodeus
I've always considered Errtu to be something of a joke, really. You know that guy in Kung-Pow: Enter the Fist that the martial arts masters trained badly as a joke? That's Errtu for the demon lords.
That's a shame that the way he was written leaves many to see him that way. I think at the time it was first written.....he was one one of only 6(?) or so demons of the highest order......he sure didn't come off as near powerful or competent enough to be ruler of his own level of the hells.
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A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 26 Mar 2011 : 02:35:25
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| The Crenshinibon artifact may have impeded Ertuu's powers and intellect. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3567 Posts |
Posted - 26 Mar 2011 : 02:49:59
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quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
You mean the Abyss, right? The Hells are in Battor.
Yeah, ruler of a layer of the Abyss.
This tidbit (from Errtu's wiki page ...lol) is interesting in trying to determine "what he should have been":
Errtu was the name of one of the original six Type VI demons in Gary Gygax's Advanced Dungeons and Dragons, its name being listed among the others in the appendices of the Dungeon Master Guide. As originally envisioned, there were only six Type VI Demons in existence, with each having its own individual name, unlike lesser demon |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 26 Mar 2011 : 02:56:43
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| Ah, my players can assure ye that there are far more than just six of these demons. |
[/Ayrik] |
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3567 Posts |
Posted - 26 Mar 2011 : 03:05:09
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quote:
Originally posted by Arik
Ah, my players can assure ye that there are far more than just six of these demons.
And after 1e passed there became thousands and thousands. |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 26 Mar 2011 : 05:05:41
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quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker
quote:
Originally posted by Arik
Ah, my players can assure ye that there are far more than just six of these demons.
And after 1e passed there became thousands and thousands.
I still have that there are only six of these demons known...in a particular world. It doesn't prevent more from being in the multi-verse; just that the secret names of only six are known in my world of Greyhawk (where they were originally contrived I guess?). Remember, it only said "Six are known to exist"...
I simply remember that "Balor" was my favorite demon that my character "Dalor" had bound to his service after Yeenoghu.
Ertuu I figure is just one of the Type VI known in the Forgotten Realms? |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Chosen of Asmodeus
Master of Realmslore
1221 Posts |
Posted - 26 Mar 2011 : 05:34:34
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| In his first appearance we are informed that Errtu is, in fact, the ruler of a layer of the abyss. However, the demonomicon notes that there are many layers of the abyss that lack a demon lord proper. Becoming a demon lord is about more than simply being the biggest, meanest demon on a given layer. One has to learn one's own true name, bond with the layer on a metaphysical level, and gain a certain level of mastery over the very nature of the layer. Errtu has done none of this. He simply happens to be the biggest, meanest demon on a layer no one else wanted(it is discribed as a place of fungus and refuse, so that's not completely surprising). If a bigger, meaner demon got sight of said layer, they could probably take it from him if they set their mind to it. |
"Then I saw there was a way to Hell even from the gates of Heaven"
- John Bunyan, Pilgrim's Progress
Fatum Iustum Stultorum. Righteous is the destiny of fools.
The Roleplayer's Gazebo;
http://theroleplayersgazebo.yuku.com/directory#.Ub4hvvlJOAY |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 26 Mar 2011 : 06:32:19
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More complex still, the "infinite" (or 666, if you prefer) layers of the Abyss do not all have rulers. Some are indeed unclaimed or ruled by "unqualified" claimants. Many are shared (or more likely contested) by a number of rulers. Some demons are powerful enough to rule multiple layers. Some demons, such as Pazuzu, have aspected domains: they do not rule any single layer but instead have peculiar dominion of fragments spanning many layers. Many layers have quirky links to other places and powers beyond those of the Abyss itself, and in many cases so too do their demonic rulers.
I like the idea of only six Type VI demons being known to Oerth. They are in an odd position: they must strike a balance between keeping their true names secret yet also disperse these names throughout any worlds where they hope to gain entry and dominion. Some might hold greater power by knowing the true names of their competitors, they might even direct effort into propagating or extinguishing said names on select worlds.
The original printing of MC8: Outer Planes Appendix* (2E) briefly quotes some passages from the Codex of Mordenkainen which describes (among other things) a nearly infinite "writhing mass" of tanar'ri being led by the *countless legions of immortal generals* of the Abyss; 1E's "Demon, Type VI" monsters were mostly lumped into 2E's "Tanar'ri, true" category; demon lords and princes were unique (sometimes even divine) entities which hardly followed any real template ... though, yes, they were invariably much more potent than others of their ilk. I suppose this Dragon article was just part of the 3E craze to dump templates and stat blocks onto everything a PC might theoretically try chopping into.
* Subsequent MC8 printings altered Mordenkainen's passages somewhat, probably to keep them more in line with other planescape sourcebooks. |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 26 Mar 2011 06:41:34 |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 26 Mar 2011 : 06:46:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Arik
More complex still, the "infinite" (or 666, if you prefer) layers of the Abyss do not all have rulers. Some are indeed unclaimed or ruled by "unqualified" claimants. Many are shared (or more likely contested) by a number of rulers. Some demons are powerful enough to rule multiple layers. Some demons, such as Pazuzu, have aspected domains: they do not rule any single layer but instead have peculiar dominion of fragments spanning many layers. Many layers have quirky links to other places and powers beyond those of the Abyss itself, and in many cases so too do their demonic rulers.
I like the idea of only six Type VI demons being known to Oerth. They are in an odd position: they must strike a balance between keeping their true names secret yet also disperse these names throughout any worlds where they hope to gain entry and dominion. Some might hold greater power by knowing the true names of their competitors, they might even direct effort into propagating or extinguishing said names on select worlds.
The original printing of MC8: Outer Planes Appendix* (2E) briefly quotes some passages from the Codex of Mordenkainen which describes (among other things) a nearly infinite "writhing mass" of tanar'ri being led by the *countless legions of immortal generals* of the Abyss; 1E's "Demon, Type VI" monsters were mostly lumped into 2E's "Tanar'ri, true" category; demon lords and princes were unique (sometimes even divine) entities which hardly followed any real template ... though, yes, they were invariably much more potent than others of their ilk. I suppose this Dragon article was just part of the 3E craze to dump templates and stat blocks onto everything a PC might theoretically try chopping into.
* Subsequent MC8 printings altered Mordenkainen's passages somewhat, probably to keep them more in line with other planescape sourcebooks.
I never decided on how many Type VI were in the "known" demonomicon of the Forgotten Realms; but if I remember, there have been many aside from Ertuu to be found. The one I remember most vividly was in "service" to the Lich Lord of Vaasa.
I lost that module though, does anyone know the name of that Type VI?
Is there anyone that could disclose the various type VI in the Forgotten Realms that have been documented? |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Firestorm
Senior Scribe
Canada
826 Posts |
Posted - 26 Mar 2011 : 08:34:10
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quote:
Originally posted by Chosen of Asmodeus
In his first appearance we are informed that Errtu is, in fact, the ruler of a layer of the abyss. However, the demonomicon notes that there are many layers of the abyss that lack a demon lord proper. Becoming a demon lord is about more than simply being the biggest, meanest demon on a given layer. One has to learn one's own true name, bond with the layer on a metaphysical level, and gain a certain level of mastery over the very nature of the layer. Errtu has done none of this. He simply happens to be the biggest, meanest demon on a layer no one else wanted(it is discribed as a place of fungus and refuse, so that's not completely surprising). If a bigger, meaner demon got sight of said layer, they could probably take it from him if they set their mind to it.
Correct. Errtu is listed as a balor, which is a level below the actual demon lords. |
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Firestorm
Senior Scribe
Canada
826 Posts |
Posted - 26 Mar 2011 : 08:37:18
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I am kind of wondering how the blood war being over affects the abyss.
Since Asmodeus ascended to godhood and used his newfound power to push the abyss below the elemental chaos |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 26 Mar 2011 : 08:40:21
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The Wikipedia page for Balors names these Type VI Balors: Alzoll, Balor (thought to perhaps be the prototype), Ertuu, Ndulu/Demonbane, Ter-Soth, Wendonai; also Belial and Karlat Jhareg. Another wiki page names these and 19 more and cites sources (mostly official canon, some not).
Dalor — Chances are that if your module specifically refers to a "Class VI Demon" (the Gygaxian term) it would have to be a 1E Balor. I suspect it would be Ter-Soth, appearing in H4: The Throne of Bloodstone. |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 26 Mar 2011 08:44:09 |
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Chosen of Asmodeus
Master of Realmslore
1221 Posts |
Posted - 26 Mar 2011 : 08:43:47
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Indeed.
Another point is that the process of ascending to demon lord status is a very dangerous gambit; its entirely likely that in bonding with the given layer, the demon in question will be destroyed and consumed by the abyss itself. One thing heavily implied and suggested in 4e at least is that the abyss is alive and willful; there are layers it doesn't want to have a demon lord. There are specific demons it doesn't want to ascend. Errtu is likely partly aware of this, or at least of the dangers involved in ascending, and is probably scared [explitive deleted]less of attempting it, satisfied that a klurichir hasn't caught wind of him yet. |
"Then I saw there was a way to Hell even from the gates of Heaven"
- John Bunyan, Pilgrim's Progress
Fatum Iustum Stultorum. Righteous is the destiny of fools.
The Roleplayer's Gazebo;
http://theroleplayersgazebo.yuku.com/directory#.Ub4hvvlJOAY |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3290 Posts |
Posted - 26 Mar 2011 : 11:06:29
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| You have Balor, Ter-Soth, and Glyphinhor Type VI (Advanced)Demon in H4... |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
Edited by - Brimstone on 26 Mar 2011 11:13:35 |
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Ertuu's Status
