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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3567 Posts |
 Posted - 20 Mar 2011 : 22:41:28
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Poll Question:
Would you like to see a new novel centered around a bard as the main character?
I think it's long overdue myself. Their have been a few, but it seems like it's been awhile. I'm a huge fan of music and bard craft , I loved what Elaine did with bards in the past and think Some of the new authors could do them justice as well. Erik Scott de Bie with his musical influence to his characters(ie many have real world"soundtracks" and Rosemary Jones wiher the way she communicates humor come to mind among others.
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A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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Edited by - The Red Walker on 20 Mar 2011 22:42:56
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4689 Posts |
Posted - 20 Mar 2011 : 23:35:45
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| In some ways it would depend on how bard was displayed. Thus I selected depends on who writes it. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 21 Mar 2011 : 00:53:25
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You know, I was the one who suggested/plotted out a new "class" series of novels -- featuring bards -- back when various series for "The Wizards," "The Priests," and so on, were being published.
Undoubtedly, they are among my favourite classes in D&D [no surprises there, I suppose]. And I've also cherished each and every opportunity for bardic characters that have popped up in fantasy fiction. [I've a solemn hope that we'll one day see a primary bardic character develop in DRAGONLANCE-fiction].
But the various examples of such characters in the Realms, is basically part of what contributed to my fascination with Realms music. That, and Danilo's character reminding me so much of myself. 
So, yes, I'd love to see a new novel featuring a bardic main character. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3567 Posts |
Posted - 21 Mar 2011 : 01:11:43
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
You know, I was the one who suggested/plotted out a new "class" series of novels -- featuring bards -- back when various series for "The Wizards," "The Priests," and so on, were being published.
Undoubtedly, they are among my favourite classes in D&D [no surprises there, I suppose]. And I've also cherished each and every opportunity for bardic characters that have popped up in fantasy fiction. [I've a solemn hope that we'll one day see a primary bardic character develop in DRAGONLANCE-fiction].
But the various examples of such characters in the Realms, is basically part of what contributed to my fascination with Realms music. That, and Danilo's character reminding me so much of myself.
So, yes, I'd love to see a new novel featuring a bardic main character.
How much plotting did you do? |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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Richard Lee Byers
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
1814 Posts |
Posted - 21 Mar 2011 : 02:14:05
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| You guys know about Bareris in The Haunted Lands trilogy, right? Just checking. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 21 Mar 2011 : 02:33:10
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quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker
How much plotting did you do?
I worked out some vague plot-lines, a few characters, and how the overall stories work against [then] current events in the Realms.
I also offered some tentative titles for each of the novels, based on the plots and characters I worked up.
quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lee Byers
You guys know about Bareris in The Haunted Lands trilogy, right? Just checking.
I do now. 
I'm bumping up the "Haunted Lands" trilogy in my "To-Read" stacks. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3567 Posts |
Posted - 21 Mar 2011 : 02:46:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lee Byers
You guys know about Bareris in The Haunted Lands trilogy, right? Just checking.
Yeah...I liked Jim but, Aoth kinda stole the show and I forgot how central he was, especially early in that series.
And Sage , I don't want to ruin it.....but Bareris's "grown" as a bard leads to something quite unique. |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 21 Mar 2011 : 05:05:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
Sage, if you like bards, might I suggest the tales linked in my siggy? He's a drow, but.... 
Interesting. This requires further reading.  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 21 Mar 2011 : 07:16:35
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Bardic powers in 4E (in particular their "new" healing abilities) have been points of recurring confusion and contention ... I think the first author who really explores a bard protagonist in depth will have a pioneering opportunity (and responsibility) to shape and create much fundamental "in setting" lore which (apparently) hasn't yet been acceptably defined. A bard antagonist (no mere henchman nor underling, but a properly evil/misguided bastard) would be an even more entertaining challenge. More bard, less Shar.
Bareris (as written in The Haunted Lands) isn't central enough to really command much attention; he is an interesting enough character (if perhaps slightly more emo soft, then more grimly obsessed, than I would prefer in a Bard), particularly when comparing his before/after transition, but there's just too many other characters and story arcs and profound RSE awfulness happening in these novels for Bareris to be really memorable ... I honestly found him and his vampire tramp annoying and impatiently wanted them out of the way so I could get back to reading about the good stuff: nonchalant-yet-meticulously-deadly Szass Tam, of course! I even liked dispicables like corpulent Samas Kul and monstrous Tsagoth more than bland Bareris. I probably glossed over Bareris as much as he seemed to gloss over using his "4E" abilities, so my final assessment of him is certainly biased and possibly unfair. [Sorry RLB, I did (mostly) like your trilogy, but not your bard.]
Danilo has moments where he rocks incomparably ... Finder is much inferior, plus his apotheosis transformed him into a nearly untouchable character ... Elminster's daughter is a little bardy and has some potential in this role ... Marco Volo is actually contemptible, the less of him the better ... no other famous bards really strike my recollection. I would welcome an entirely new character, I'd perhaps even accept an aasimar or other exotic, though a drow bard is too cheap and easy for my taste.
I would think the ultimate bard character would be a son/daughter/nephew/niece of fat old Mirt, created and written by Ed. Ah, the tales to be told, the songs to be sung, the glory to be glorified ... |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 21 Mar 2011 09:19:35 |
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 21 Mar 2011 : 11:10:05
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| More novels is always good, and Bards are fun to read about. |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 21 Mar 2011 : 11:11:09
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| More novels is always good, and Bards are fun to read about. |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3567 Posts |
Posted - 21 Mar 2011 : 19:20:46
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I heard you the first time!
But I appreciate your enthusiasm for my scroll! |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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Edited by - The Red Walker on 21 Mar 2011 19:21:13 |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3567 Posts |
Posted - 21 Mar 2011 : 20:18:47
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quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
 So I'm cheap and easy, huh? *snickers* Never been called THAT before....  kidding. Arik, You might enjoy him, though you'd probably like the lady of the tale a bit more. She's a half-dragon (mainly sorceress, but also a bit bard-y) and quite talented.
is your hubby's first name Lucky? |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 21 Mar 2011 : 20:29:49
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quote:
Alystra Illianniis
So I'm cheap and easy, huh? *snickers* Never been called THAT before....
Sorry, Alystra, I just mislike drow, a preference that really has nothing to do with bards.
I notice a lack of any definitive female bards in the Realms. Why is that? Especially considering how much appeal female performers have in our society (especially in the minds of young males). |
[/Ayrik] |
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Elfinblade
Senior Scribe
Norway
377 Posts |
Posted - 21 Mar 2011 : 22:12:58
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quote:
Originally posted by Arik
quote:
Alystra Illianniis
So I'm cheap and easy, huh? *snickers* Never been called THAT before....
Sorry, Alystra, I just mislike drow, a preference that really has nothing to do with bards.
I notice a lack of any definitive female bards in the Realms. Why is that? Especially considering how much appeal female performers have in our society (especially in the minds of young males).
Elaine's Elfsong has a couple of female bards featuring. Garnet and that dwarven scetch artist bard, which i always thought was a really interesting spin on the bard class. What was her name again, Morganna? |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 21 Mar 2011 : 22:14:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Elfinblade
quote:
Originally posted by Arik
quote:
Alystra Illianniis
So I'm cheap and easy, huh? *snickers* Never been called THAT before....
Sorry, Alystra, I just mislike drow, a preference that really has nothing to do with bards.
I notice a lack of any definitive female bards in the Realms. Why is that? Especially considering how much appeal female performers have in our society (especially in the minds of young males).
Elaine's Elfsong has a couple of female bards featuring. Garnet and that dwarven scetch artist bard, which i always thought was a really interesting spin on the bard class. What was her name again, Morganna?
Morgalla the Mirthful. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Fellfire
Master of Realmslore
1965 Posts |
Posted - 21 Mar 2011 : 22:39:53
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| Let's not forget the Taleweaver from Mel Odem's Threat from the Sea trilogy. Very well written, I thought. |
Misanthorpe
Love is a lie. Only hate endures. Light is blinding. Only in darkness do we see clearly.
"Oh, you think darkness is your ally? You merely adopted the dark. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn't see the light until I was already a man, by then it was nothing to me but.. blinding. The shadows betray you because they belong to me." - Bane The Dark Knight Rises
Green Dragonscale Dice Bag by Crystalsidyll - check it out
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Edited by - Fellfire on 21 Mar 2011 22:40:39 |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 21 Mar 2011 : 22:42:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Arik
A bard antagonist (no mere henchman nor underling, but a properly evil/misguided bastard) would be an even more entertaining challenge. More bard, less Shar.
Ahem . . . [koff koff] Did that once, doing it again. [koff!] Ahem.
Exploring the 4e bard skill set is--I mean *would be* interesting, indeed.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Kilvan
Senior Scribe
Canada
894 Posts |
Posted - 21 Mar 2011 : 23:23:41
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quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
quote:
Originally posted by Arik
A bard antagonist (no mere henchman nor underling, but a properly evil/misguided bastard) would be an even more entertaining challenge. More bard, less Shar.
Ahem . . . [koff koff] Did that once, doing it again. [koff!] Ahem.
Exploring the 4e bard skill set is--I mean *would be* interesting, indeed.
Cheers
Of course! Greyt is my favorite character in Ghostwalker, followed closely by his son Meris (though I realised that only in last 5-6 chapters, for reasons I won't spoil ).
Though that druid ghost was cool too... and that roguish knight with the dagger-chain thingy... hmmmm, makes me want to read that one again, which is not good news, considering my own to-read list! |
Edited by - Kilvan on 21 Mar 2011 23:24:48 |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 22 Mar 2011 : 00:13:51
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| Ye need a koffdrop, herr Erik? |
[/Ayrik] |
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3567 Posts |
Posted - 22 Mar 2011 : 00:32:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Kilvan
quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
quote:
Originally posted by Arik
A bard antagonist (no mere henchman nor underling, but a properly evil/misguided bastard) would be an even more entertaining challenge. More bard, less Shar.
Ahem . . . [koff koff] Did that once, doing it again. [koff!] Ahem.
Exploring the 4e bard skill set is--I mean *would be* interesting, indeed.
Cheers
Of course! Greyt is my favorite character in Ghostwalker, followed closely by his son Meris (though I realised that only in last 5-6 chapters, for reasons I won't spoil ).
Though that druid ghost was cool too... and that roguish knight with the dagger-chain thingy... hmmmm, makes me want to read that one again, which is not good news, considering my own to-read list!
I hated Meris and Greyt was a SOB of a bard. |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 22 Mar 2011 : 00:39:29
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| I find bardic magic too 'limited.' Though I like Bareris ---and that's not because or only because he's a bard--- I don't think a novel featuring a bard as main protagonist would grab me. I prefer to hear "music is magic" used figuratively, not literally. The latter sounds odd to me; so bards and all other spellsingers [in or outside FR] don't interest me. Incidentally, I edited a novel that featured a spellsinger hero. However, [unlike bards] other than music, he had other far more interesting means to channel magic. |
Every beginning has an end. |
Edited by - Dennis on 22 Mar 2011 00:42:13 |
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 22 Mar 2011 : 01:28:28
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I should mention that in the early days of the published Realms Ed and Karen Boomgaarden (yes, that's the way her surname is properly spelled) put their heads together briefly on doing a novel with bards, involving sung spells (with sheet music, lyrics, and all), but it was promptly vetoed by the Books people as being too costly and finicky in the manufacturing to be worth it). That was back in pre-CD days, remember, when "floppy" soft plastic 45rpm record inserts like National Geographic sometimes did were considered. Ed raised the idea again when CDs did come along and TSR briefly flirted with a line of slim-boxed adventures containing CDs, but again there was zero interest from the (different, by then) Books people.
When Anne McCaffrey's CRYSTAL SINGER sf novel appeared, there was a brief kindling of interest, but it got hijacked by a higher-up who fell in love with the "singing to tune your laser cutter" idea in that novel and its sequels, twisting it into "singing to AIM your sonic sword," and taking it into the realm of sf. Where it promptly died, along with the game that never saw more than a few back pages of DRAGON: "Proton Fire."
I'm not saying the idea might not fly if suggested now. I'm just pointing out it has a history of being raised and quashed. (Hopefully we have moved on from the days of a [now-dead] TSR upper management suit growling, "A book about some pansies in ridiculous costumes warbling away and making birds fall stunned out of the sky? I don't THINK so!" . . . as one did loudly in my hearing when someone suggested TSR do a D&D novel featuring a bard adventuring band, back at an early Milwaukee-era GenCon.)
love,
THO |
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3567 Posts |
Posted - 22 Mar 2011 : 01:44:32
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quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
I should mention that in the early days of the published Realms Ed and Karen Boomgaarden (yes, that's the way her surname is properly spelled) put their heads together briefly on doing a novel with bards, involving sung spells (with sheet music, lyrics, and all), but it was promptly vetoed by the Books people as being too costly and finicky in the manufacturing to be worth it). That was back in pre-CD days, remember, when "floppy" soft plastic 45rpm record inserts like National Geographic sometimes did were considered. Ed raised the idea again when CDs did come along and TSR briefly flirted with a line of slim-boxed adventures containing CDs, but again there was zero interest from the (different, by then) Books people.
When Anne McCaffrey's CRYSTAL SINGER sf novel appeared, there was a brief kindling of interest, but it got hijacked by a higher-up who fell in love with the "singing to tune your laser cutter" idea in that novel and its sequels, twisting it into "singing to AIM your sonic sword," and taking it into the realm of sf. Where it promptly died, along with the game that never saw more than a few back pages of DRAGON: "Proton Fire."
I'm not saying the idea might not fly if suggested now. I'm just pointing out it has a history of being raised and quashed. (Hopefully we have moved on from the days of a [now-dead] TSR upper management suit growling, "A book about some pansies in ridiculous costumes warbling away and making birds fall stunned out of the sky? I don't THINK so!" . . . as one did loudly in my hearing when someone suggested TSR do a D&D novel featuring a bard adventuring band, back at an early Milwaukee-era GenCon.)
love,
THO
Fascinating!
Thanks Lovely One! |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 22 Mar 2011 : 02:00:00
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| That is fascinating, THO. There aren't really any acceptable technical excuses left for the publishers these days: discs cost less than paper, material can be distributed by internet (and even require a unique decryption key from each printed book, if the publisher so desires) ... hell, for a few pennies the book itself can plug into a USB port. There are plenty of other excuses available to publishers, most are probably very conservative and depend on (antiquated) traditional formulas to squeezing their slim profit margins. Bookmakers ironically seem to be the least innovative enterpreneurs in the world. |
[/Ayrik] |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 22 Mar 2011 : 02:09:57
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quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
I should mention that in the early days of the published Realms Ed and Karen Boomgaarden (yes, that's the way her surname is properly spelled) put their heads together briefly on doing a novel with bards, involving sung spells (with sheet music, lyrics, and all), but it was promptly vetoed by the Books people as being too costly and finicky in the manufacturing to be worth it). That was back in pre-CD days, remember, when "floppy" soft plastic 45rpm record inserts like National Geographic sometimes did were considered. Ed raised the idea again when CDs did come along and TSR briefly flirted with a line of slim-boxed adventures containing CDs, but again there was zero interest from the (different, by then) Books people.
When Anne McCaffrey's CRYSTAL SINGER sf novel appeared, there was a brief kindling of interest, but it got hijacked by a higher-up who fell in love with the "singing to tune your laser cutter" idea in that novel and its sequels, twisting it into "singing to AIM your sonic sword," and taking it into the realm of sf. Where it promptly died, along with the game that never saw more than a few back pages of DRAGON: "Proton Fire."
I'm not saying the idea might not fly if suggested now. I'm just pointing out it has a history of being raised and quashed. (Hopefully we have moved on from the days of a [now-dead] TSR upper management suit growling, "A book about some pansies in ridiculous costumes warbling away and making birds fall stunned out of the sky? I don't THINK so!" . . . as one did loudly in my hearing when someone suggested TSR do a D&D novel featuring a bard adventuring band, back at an early Milwaukee-era GenCon.)
love,
THO
Let me just say, that the Realms Music-Geek inside of me would have gladly parted with many gold pieces for such a rare treasure.
I'm curious though, milady, on what your thoughts would be re: some of us tackling a similar project?
As I've noted before here at Candlekeep, I've tried something like this, by writing sheet music for notable Realms ditties published in official sources. And while Ed and Karen's conception is definitely something I can try on my lonesome, I suspect that a few scribes might also be interested in attempting this.
Plus, it expands on my ideas about composing original Realms music for archival purposes at Candlekeep. [Which I'll get to eventually.  ]
What do you think?
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
Posted - 22 Mar 2011 : 05:25:34
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Sage, if you need any help with that project, I'd be happy to oblige. I occasionally dabble in song-writing along with my other writing work, poems, and the like. I have lots of free time after work to compile ditties, hunt down lyrics if need be (and I have the appropriate resources at hand) etc. And since I'm as fond of music and bards as you are, it would be right up my alley, as it were. Assuming you are interested in collaborating, of course.
@ Dennis: I posted some stuff a while back on the subject of music as magic (cosmic symphonies, planetary "music", and related concepts) so to me, the two go hand-in-hand. How often have you watched a movie where a spell was chanted in some almost sing-song cadence? Have you ever read the Wizard in Rhyme series? It used poetry and song lyrics (Greensleeves!) heavily for the magic spells in those books. And to interesting effect, I might add.... (A poem about augerers finding no entrails within a sacrifice causing a wizard to become "gutless"- that was PRICELESS!!!)
Now that I think on it, those Crystal Singer novels have given me a great idea- combining stone magic with spellsinging! I'm picturing a bardic Stone Mage, using the stones to focus his song-spells, or perhaps storing the songs in the stones.... Need to think on this more. |
The Goddess is alive, and magic is afoot.
"Where Science ends, Magic begins" -Spiral, Uncanny X-Men #491
"You idiots! You've captured their STUNT doubles!" -Spaceballs
Lothir's character background/stats: http://forum.candlekeep.com/pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=5469
My stories:
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Lothir, courtesy of Sylinde (Deviant Art)/Luaxena (Chosen of Eilistraee)
http://sylinde.deviantart.com/#/d2z6e4u |
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A bard as the main character in a Novel?
