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GMWestermeyer
Learned Scribe
USA
215 Posts |
 Posted - 16 Mar 2011 : 03:26:16
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It seems an interesting absence to me, that almost no fantasy novels feature a tradtional D&D adventuring party, especially a traditional AD&D style, old-school dungeon crawling party.
Are there any newer Realms novels that I might have missed which do this? Excluding Ed's Knights of Myth Drannor novels, I love Ed but I was really disappointed in those novels - the characters never stop to think or breath. :( And they never seemed to really do the traditional meet in a tavern and then go plunder a dungeon type deal anyway. :(
I've always wondered why no one has written a novel about such a band, given its built in RPG crowd appeal. It seems like this would be a natural for a Realms novel, delving into Undermountain, for example, but insteadmost Realms novels really focus on a single protagonist. Or two, in the case of many of Elaine's novels.
Hmmm... come to think of it the recently reprinted old-style FR comic series both revovled around an 'adventuring party.' Maybe the comic format seemed more friendly to that, since we hadthe old Avengers and Justice League models?
Any thoughts?
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"Facts are meaningless. You can use facts to prove anything that is even remotely true."
Homer Simpson, _The Simspons_ |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 16 Mar 2011 : 15:16:32
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You might check out RLB's Brotherhood of the Griffon novels. They feature a group dynamic.
Are you more interested in a pre-existing group (i.e. together before the novel started) or a join-forces sort of group (i.e. individuals who band together at some point in the novel)? Or does it not matter?
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
Posted - 16 Mar 2011 : 16:25:59
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| The newest Pathfinder Tales novel, Plague of Shadows also has a pretty good party dynamic. |
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 16 Mar 2011 : 17:26:05
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Hi. GMWestermeyer, re.: "the traditional meet in a tavern and then go plunder a dungeon type deal anyway."
I recall having a long, leisurely chat with the TSR Books folks at a Chicago Book Expo America more than a decade ago, while Ed was happily signing and giving away hundreds of copies of his then-latest book, and from what said then, the very thing you are looking for was ACTIVELY DISCOURAGED by the editorial staff at the time...because if they didn't do so, those were almost exclusively the sort of stories submitted to them, both by freelancers and in-house staffers. Or so they said, anyway.
As for Ed's Knights books, as the player of a Knight in Ed's home campaign, I must say those books are tremendously "telescoped" down from what we did in the first few years (real time) of play. To cover the adventures of the Knights (which included a lot of the basic "starter" dungeon-delving you're looking for, not to mention foolish mistakes, misunderstandings, some torrid romance, infiltration of the Knights by Cormyrean undercover agents, et al) during that time would require about 16 novels the length of the three published ones. The "real" Realms is all about subplots upon intrigues upon character development, not the simple straight-ahead action adventure narrative Ed was asked to write in the published trilogy.
love,
THO |
Edited by - The Hooded One on 16 Mar 2011 17:50:18 |
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Christopher_Rowe
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
879 Posts |
Posted - 16 Mar 2011 : 17:53:14
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quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
The "real" Realms is all about subplots upon intrigues upon character development...
I think I'll write that down and refer to it both as a novelist and a DM.
And GMWestermeyer it's been more than a decade since I've read them but it seems like Mark Anthony's Harper novels might have something close to what you're looking for.
My own Sandstorm has a recognizable "party," but they don't do any dungeon delving, and they're actually members of a circus.
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Caolin
Senior Scribe
769 Posts |
Posted - 18 Mar 2011 : 01:35:03
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| I have actually wondered this myself at times. I would love to read a novel that covers the genesis of low level adventuring party and their early adventures. A nice simple story that is not affecting nations, disrupting the world or involves gods throwing down lightning bolts here and there. |
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GMWestermeyer
Learned Scribe
USA
215 Posts |
Posted - 18 Mar 2011 : 02:54:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
You might check out RLB's Brotherhood of the Griffon novels. They feature a group dynamic.
Are you more interested in a pre-existing group (i.e. together before the novel started) or a join-forces sort of group (i.e. individuals who band together at some point in the novel)? Or does it not matter?
Pre-existing or forming, either works. One thing that one me over to the Realms as a setting in the old Grey set was the idea of adventuring band charters and the named adventuring bands. That wasn't seen in previous works, beyond the Fellowship of the Ring itself, and that was a very loose, very quest specific sort of thing.
This lack isn't limited to FR novels by any means, it's a truism throughout the fantasy genre. I find it puzzling.
Can anyone think ofa single modern fantasy novel written about an FRPG-style adventuring band? Whether dungeon-delving or not?
It seems like a missed marketing opportunity to me. |
"Facts are meaningless. You can use facts to prove anything that is even remotely true."
Homer Simpson, _The Simspons_ |
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3567 Posts |
Posted - 18 Mar 2011 : 03:06:01
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quote:
Originally posted by GMWestermeyer
quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
You might check out RLB's Brotherhood of the Griffon novels. They feature a group dynamic.
Are you more interested in a pre-existing group (i.e. together before the novel started) or a join-forces sort of group (i.e. individuals who band together at some point in the novel)? Or does it not matter?
Pre-existing or forming, either works. One thing that one me over to the Realms as a setting in the old Grey set was the idea of adventuring band charters and the named adventuring bands. That wasn't seen in previous works, beyond the Fellowship of the Ring itself, and that was a very loose, very quest specific sort of thing.
This lack isn't limited to FR novels by any means, it's a truism throughout the fantasy genre. I find it puzzling.
Can anyone think ofa single modern fantasy novel written about an FRPG-style adventuring band? Whether dungeon-delving or not?
It seems like a missed marketing opportunity to me.
Dragonlance Chronicles.
Large party. Action gets started in an Inn.
Of course it was written to match the already completed game module......( at least vol 1 and very start of Vol 2 until the authors outpaced the modules progress) |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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Edited by - The Red Walker on 18 Mar 2011 03:14:20 |
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Knight of the Gate
Senior Scribe
USA
624 Posts |
Posted - 18 Mar 2011 : 03:45:07
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| The Knights of Myth Drannor books, of course, spring to mind... Chartered adventurers (check), low-level (check), 'standard party roles' filled (check)... it seems to fit the bill. |
How can life be so bountiful, providing such sublime rewards for mediocrity? -Umberto Ecco |
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3567 Posts |
Posted - 18 Mar 2011 : 03:49:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Knight of the Gate
The Knights of Myth Drannor books, of course, spring to mind... Chartered adventurers (check), low-level (check), 'standard party roles' filled (check)... it seems to fit the bill.
Yeah, GW mentioned them earlier as an exception |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 18 Mar 2011 : 06:13:37
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I know what you mean. I personally LOVE adventuring band stories.
Not to tout my own work, but Depths of Madness is definitely an adventuring party/dungeon delve sort of story (with the survivalist "die off one by one" element). I really enjoyed writing the pseudo-Baldur's Gate style infighting between some of the characters.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3567 Posts |
Posted - 18 Mar 2011 : 13:08:25
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Rosemary Jones's Crypt of the Moaning Diamond feeatures a party, The Siegebreakers. And a bit of dungeon crawling as well. the party is much enhanced by Mumchance the dwarf, having his pup along for the ride.
Besides Paul S. Kemp's Riven, I can't remember another realms novel with a major character that has a dog(or pet that isnt a magical familiar)
The realms surely must have more dog lovers? |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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GMWestermeyer
Learned Scribe
USA
215 Posts |
Posted - 19 Mar 2011 : 00:15:01
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quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker
quote:
Originally posted by Knight of the Gate
The Knights of Myth Drannor books, of course, spring to mind... Chartered adventurers (check), low-level (check), 'standard party roles' filled (check)... it seems to fit the bill.
Yeah, GW mentioned them earlier as an exception
Yep. And the focus was barely on the adventuring band. I mean, it seemed like half the novels were on characters other than the Knights of Myth Drannor. |
"Facts are meaningless. You can use facts to prove anything that is even remotely true."
Homer Simpson, _The Simspons_ |
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Clad In Shadows
Learned Scribe
Canada
158 Posts |
Posted - 08 Apr 2011 : 21:18:08
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quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker
Besides Paul S. Kemp's Riven, I can't remember another realms novel with a major character that has a dog(or pet that isnt a magical familiar)
The realms surely must have more dog lovers?
Tristan from the original Moonshae trilogy had a dog named Canthus. Other than that, I can't think of any. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 08 Apr 2011 : 22:39:58
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quote:
Originally posted by Clad In Shadows
quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker
Besides Paul S. Kemp's Riven, I can't remember another realms novel with a major character that has a dog(or pet that isnt a magical familiar)
The realms surely must have more dog lovers?
Tristan from the original Moonshae trilogy had a dog named Canthus. Other than that, I can't think of any.
Canthus is a cool name, thinks I. 
There was a wolf in the Last Mythal books... Sheeril was companion to the wild elf ranger girl Gaerradh. |
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BlackAce
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
358 Posts |
Posted - 09 Apr 2011 : 01:29:11
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| The Rage of Dragons trilogy featured a band of adventurers and going further back, the last Pools of Radiance game novelization did too. The War of the Spider Queen had a "party" but I guess they don't quite fit the bill. |
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jordanz
Senior Scribe
556 Posts |
Posted - 17 Apr 2011 : 19:02:19
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There definitely needs to be more of this. Perhaps writers have been trying a bit to hard to avoid the stereotype. Now the stereotype is a novelty....
I personally want to see a very high level - epic party transverse the realms and the outer (particularly lower) planes. |
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3567 Posts |
Posted - 18 Apr 2011 : 00:48:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Clad In Shadows
quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker
Besides Paul S. Kemp's Riven, I can't remember another realms novel with a major character that has a dog(or pet that isnt a magical familiar)
The realms surely must have more dog lovers?
Tristan from the original Moonshae trilogy had a dog named Canthus. Other than that, I can't think of any.
Canthus is a cool name, thinks I.
There was a wolf in the Last Mythal books... Sheeril was companion to the wild elf ranger girl Gaerradh.
Mayhaps my 3 year old Tristan should have a dog named Canthus? |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3741 Posts |
Posted - 18 Apr 2011 : 01:13:37
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quote:
Originally posted by jordanz
There definitely needs to be more of this. Perhaps writers have been trying a bit to hard to avoid the stereotype. Now the stereotype is a novelty....
-You think? Personally, I can't stand it, the "ideal D&D adventuring party" in novels. In certain aspects, such as pre-planned ventures, it makes certain degree of sense to cover all your bases, having some kind of magician (of both Divine and Arcane varieties), some kind of strong-guy, and some kind of skilled-guy, in addition to generic fighter-types. But, that the ideal, optimum adventuring party just happened to assemble, all thrust into the same situation because of various outside forces? Nope. It's just not all that realistic. |
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Kerrigan
Acolyte
Germany
31 Posts |
Posted - 23 Apr 2011 : 09:32:51
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quote:
Can anyone think ofa single modern fantasy novel written about an FRPG-style adventuring band? Whether dungeon-delving or not?
It seems like a missed marketing opportunity to me.
Do you think so? I always found it a bit dull when Forgotten Realms-Novels were too close to the roleplaying game. Book 1 of the Avatar-series (Shadowdale) comes to mind.. - it would have been suiting as an adventure diary, but as a novel, it was .. not of the type I prefer. |
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 23 Apr 2011 : 18:10:07
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Two reasons I like Realms fiction with adventuring companies:
1. I get enough of the recent egotistic/solipsistic tendency towards lone heroes alienated from society in places other than Realms fiction.
2. The Realms has done more than perhaps any other world to naturalize the idea of adventuring so that rather than a bare game artefact or convention it's a highly detailed in-world subculture. I like reading about it. |
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GMWestermeyer
Learned Scribe
USA
215 Posts |
Posted - 23 Apr 2011 : 20:16:02
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I don't want to see artificial parties crammed together for no reason. But it is established that adventuring bands are common in the Realms, with laws about them and legal issues like Charters. And the standard AD&D adventuring party forming to explore a ruin looking for riches is an established norm in the Realms as well.
So, I'd like to see a novel about neophyte adventurers forming together to seek thier fortune while exploring ancient ruins. The standard diverse adventuring party makes perfect sense for such an undertaking, afterall! :)
But I've never seen ANY fantasy novel like that, not in any setting. It's a shame. :(
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"Facts are meaningless. You can use facts to prove anything that is even remotely true."
Homer Simpson, _The Simspons_ |
Edited by - GMWestermeyer on 23 Apr 2011 20:16:34 |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 25 Apr 2011 : 08:18:46
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I agree with Dagnirion and Kerrigan. It could be good in games, but hardly palatable in novels. Most of the intricacies (the well-knit subplots and the overarching plot) of a novel are best rendered when the books shies away from an "adventuring party." |
Every beginning has an end. |
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darkwalk
Acolyte
United Kingdom
4 Posts |
Posted - 26 Apr 2011 : 21:43:57
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| I think the rage of the dragons was a good party adventure, also Promise of the Witch King from Sellswords series pictures the forming of a party and includes some good dungeon crawling. Unclean, the first book in The Haunted Lands triology also features a party on quests before they go into war. |
----- I grant you your soul, but not your life. Be happy that I have found a measure of mercy. ----- |
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GMWestermeyer
Learned Scribe
USA
215 Posts |
Posted - 26 Apr 2011 : 23:35:19
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Well, I can only hope prospective Realms authors who might write such a novel aren't reading this thread, since so many seem against it.
I think it could be an excellent novel premise and would be pretty fresh, since its a plot that really hasn't been done before. |
"Facts are meaningless. You can use facts to prove anything that is even remotely true."
Homer Simpson, _The Simspons_ |
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Rosemary Jones
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
148 Posts |
Posted - 03 May 2011 : 06:04:08
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The whole point of CRYPT OF THE MOANING DIAMOND was to let a group race their way through a dungeon (flood waters rising, ceilings falling, and the action of the book takes place in 24 hours) -- and, because they are having a very bad day, they have been stripped of weapons, magical items, and, eventually, one character even loses his pants.
Or, as one reviewer here said "it's good to read that even a shining hero can be reduced underwear and keep on going..."
The novel is out of print but there are copies floating around the Internet. And you can keep clicking on Amazon.com to tell Wizards that you want them to release this title on Kindle ;)
Regards,
Rosemary
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Rosemary Jones
www.rosemaryjones.com |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 03 May 2011 : 06:10:01
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quote:
Originally posted by Rosemary Jones
The novel is out of print but there are copies floating around the Internet. And you can keep clicking on Amazon.com to tell Wizards that you want them to release this title on Kindle ;)
Keep an eye out on nobleknight.com as well, for second-hand copies. |
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Adventuring party novels?
