| Author |
 Topic  |
|
Aryalómë
Senior Scribe
USA
666 Posts |
 Posted - 14 Mar 2011 : 11:02:14
|
| I really want to but anywy, that book was written before the Eladrin conceptncame out. And Star Elves are amazing!! And if you lke Sildeyuir, well, those two go hand and hand with each other. |
 |
|
|
Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36784 Posts |
Posted - 14 Mar 2011 : 18:12:18
|
quote:
Originally posted by tradwitch1313
And if you lke Sildeyuir, well, those two go hand and hand with each other.
Not necessarily. I don't have to like a family to like their house. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
|
|
|
Aryalómë
Senior Scribe
USA
666 Posts |
Posted - 14 Mar 2011 : 18:28:16
|
| What I meant is that the Star Elves created Sildeyuir, so there is going to always be something about them if you are going to do something with Sildeyuir. |
|
|
|
Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36784 Posts |
Posted - 14 Mar 2011 : 18:48:48
|
quote:
Originally posted by tradwitch1313
What I meant is that the Star Elves created Sildeyuir, so there is going to always be something about them if you are going to do something with Sildeyuir.
Just because they built, it doesn't mean you have to like them to like their realm. I like my house, but I've no idea who built it, and I don't care to find out. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
|
|
|
Aryalómë
Senior Scribe
USA
666 Posts |
Posted - 14 Mar 2011 : 20:05:33
|
| I'm not saying that you have t oike them, it's just that if you do anything involving Sildeyuir, Star Elves are going to be involved as well. |
|
|
|
Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 15 Mar 2011 : 04:50:49
|
I would have to agree with Wooly on this one. Parts of it I like, but the Star Elves themselves are very redundant.
In a setting with so many elven sub-races that it has become the brunt of jokes, why was it necessary to create yet-another group?
If they are Eladrin - the same group that Sun and moon elves are part of - then why differentiate between any of them at all? As far as I am concerned, they are all 'High Elves'.
So they have a unique story... SO what? So do I... should I have my own Markustay sub-race? Just about every orc tribe is unique (like those ostrich-riding ones), but you don't see us slapping a sub-race on every group. Technically, they are a sub-subrace (as the Gold and silver are) - there are only two major lines of division amongst the elven races; urban and highly magical, or primitive and living in harmony with nature. And even there, there is much overlap.
It was just unnecessary redundancy.
So, if we look at what we have - Sun, Moon, and Star - I guess 'Eladrin' should be Fae for 'Celestial Elf'.
Now I want my Meteor, Asteroid, and Comet Elves. 
May be a Pulsar Elf, who hangs with a White Dwarf. 
{I kill me....} |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
|
Edited by - Markustay on 15 Mar 2011 04:51:47 |
|
|
|
Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7978 Posts |
Posted - 15 Mar 2011 : 04:52:51
|
| Quantum elves sound promising ... |
[/Ayrik] |
|
|
|
The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 15 Mar 2011 : 05:21:45
|
quote:
Originally posted by Arik
Quantum elves sound promising ...
They're hard to define, though. See, the only known instance of a quantum elf was Sch'rödi'nger -- and it's still not understood, even today, whether he/she was actually alive or dead. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
|
|
|
Snowblood
Senior Scribe
Australia
388 Posts |
Posted - 15 Mar 2011 : 06:16:25
|
| don't forget Santas elves, shoes fixing elves, tooth fetching elves, elf insurance salesmen, need I go on.....oh and don't forget Mr Obamas revised Elf care plan..... |
Aryvandaar, Ilythiir, Arnothoi, Orva, Sarphil, Anauria/Asram/Hlondath, Uvaeren, Braceldaur, Ilodhar, Lisenaar, Imaskar, Miyeritar, Orishaar, Shantel Othrieir, Keltormir, Eaerlann, Ammarindar, Siluvanede, Sharrven, Illefarn, Ardeep, Rystal Wood, Evereska are all available here for download:http://phasai.deviantart.com/gallery/
|
Edited by - Snowblood on 15 Mar 2011 06:18:21 |
|
|
|
Brian R. James
Forgotten Realms Game Designer
USA
1098 Posts |
Posted - 23 Mar 2011 : 18:38:50
|
The leShay are in no way allied with Corellon Larethian or his eladrin children. Quite the opposite in fact. Eschewing the teachings of the Seldarine pantheon, the leShay venerate primal spirits and archfey. Zealot priests of Corellon, known as Lashrael Crusaders, see the fey realm of Sarifal as an unhallowed hinterland under the corrupting influence of the leShay and actively seek to convert or “cleanse” the heathen fey therein.
quote:
Originally posted by tradwitch1313
The Eladrin kingdom that exists between the realms that appeared on the island known as Gwynneth has apparently a new race of Eladrin. It said that these Eladrin were of the very same stock of Corellon Larethian hmself. If so, that would be absolutely amazng!!! Maybe these Eladrin are the original Eladrin that they all descended frm (actually, I don't believe they all descended from a common ancestr), but what could they be? Any ideas and snippets of lore would be fantastic.
|
Brian R. James - Freelance Game Designer
Follow me on Twitter @brianrjames |
|
|
|
Rhewtani
Senior Scribe
USA
508 Posts |
Posted - 23 Mar 2011 : 19:22:51
|
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
should I have my own Markustay sub-race?
Probably. We could talk to Diffan about it. |
|
|
|
Brynweir
Senior Scribe
USA
436 Posts |
Posted - 23 Mar 2011 : 20:19:26
|
quote:
Originally posted by Snowblood
don't forget Santas elves, shoes fixing elves, tooth fetching elves, elf insurance salesmen, need I go on.....oh and don't forget Mr Obamas revised Elf care plan.....
Keebler. 'nuff said |
Anyone who likes to read something that's really dark and gritty and completely awesome ought to read The Night Angel Trilogy by Brent Weeks. You can check out a little taste at www.BrentWeeks.com I should probably warn you, though, that it is definitely not PG-13 :-D
He also started a new Trilogy with Black Prism, which may even surpass the Night Angel Trilogy in its awesomeness.
|
|
|
|
Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 23 Mar 2011 : 21:55:38
|
What issue of Dragon were those in?
And YES, I am NOT kidding...
I was writing a 'Christmas Scenario' for Candlekeep back in Dec., but things came up (and I went out-of-town for six weeks). My version was going to have 'Zantar's Elves'.
It was actually a very dark twist on much of our Yuletide 'lore'. I still have the outline - I'd share, but I may try to sell it to WotC next year (I think a 'Holiday adventure' in their free section would do wonders for their rep). It was VERY dark, but fit both the season and the Realms quite nicely (if I do say so myself).
So after Brian's post, I now am confused all the more by Eladrin. I had assumed that they were the same as the Sun and Moon elves, but obviously they are not (which means the Gold & silver are NOT Eladrin... and yet they are... my head hurts...) 
I guess FR's High Elves are actually a cross between Eladrin and Sylvan (green) Elves. Too bad we have canon about crossbreeds and elves - there was a VERY simple fix for all of this (Sharlario Moonflower - the SINGLE ELF all Moon elves are descended from).
BTW, that means every single Moon elf that ever married another Moon Elf was committing incest.  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
|
Edited by - Markustay on 24 Mar 2011 04:51:27 |
|
|
|
Aryalómë
Senior Scribe
USA
666 Posts |
Posted - 23 Mar 2011 : 23:34:47
|
Ok, maybe I have figured it out......
Elves were created by Corellon Larethian (Sun, Moon, Star and all of the others). Eladrin may have been created by him though. Who knows? They all came from SOME divine being.
And yes, I am wholly sticking tothe story of how Corellon created them. No one can change my mind.
How come I have never heard of the leShay beofre? Never. Evere. They sound really interesting.
MT- I hate to break it to you but the Sun and MoonElves had no help from the other fey in opening a portal to Toril. During the flood of Tintageer, the "last" priestess of Angharrdh sacrificed herself to save the other Sun and Moon Elves to open the portal.
I have reason to believe that Corellon created the Eladrin because some of them tend to live in Arvandor, other than Faerie or Gates of the Moon, or Arborea (is that last one even FR canon?) |
|
|
|
Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 24 Mar 2011 : 05:21:12
|
Are you trying to inform me about a novel I have read SIX TIMES?
I didn't say the fey helped them.
What I said - precisely - was that the ritual was cast in Faerie... because that is where Tintageer is located, canonically.
So the Fey rule faerie (it says so right in the beginning of The Grand History of the Realms. It then says soon after that the Fey sent elves to Toril, from the Feywild.
So Fey rule Faerie, and Tintageer was IN Faerie. ERGO, The Fey at some point in time must have ruled over Tintageer and the High Elves (Gold & Silver), who later were ret-conned into Eladrin. The must have also ruled over elves, if they were able to command them to go to Toril.
One Kingdom (empire/whatever), at least three seperate groups of beings...... ALL fey.
And Le'Shay were another late-to-the-game edition, added toward the end of 3e (in the ELH). It was theorized back when they were first revealed that they may be FR's 'lost' Fey creator race (that was a core book, NOT FR), and it has since become canon that they are indeed 'of the fey' (although if they are the same exact people, or their descendants, still isn't fully clear).
You cannot selectively choose your sources, and older sources do not use the 4e terminology (or even 3e, in the case of the Le'Shay), so you must apply the new terminology to the old sources and distill the truth from that.
Eladrin ruled Tintageer, which was IN Faerie, and Faerie in-turn was ruled by the Fey. That's what the sources tell us, nothing less and nothing more. That means the Eladrin (Gold & Silver elves) of Tintageer were either subjects of the Fey, or rebels (and one probably lead to the other, which is how I spin it).
And by Fey, I mean the Le'Shay who we now know to be the Fey creator race (which is not precisely the same thing as the fey sub-type, which simply denotes plane of origin). 'Fey' does not have the same meaning as 'fey' in D&D, which is why I prefer to spell the specific racial group 'Fay' or 'Fć' to avoid confusion (or at least capitalize the specific group name to distinguish it from the general umbrella-group).
I had high hopes that 4e would help solve a lot of the confusion in regards to the fey and elves, and instead one simple name change snowballed into a growing ball of chaos. Calling elves Eladrin (and I was there during the initial release period, when Richard Baker and others were trying to explain the name-change to us) just added more confusion, and the term 'Eladrin' is completely meaningless in regards to the Forgotten Realms - it is a core term and should never have been used (because it added nothing, and screwed up quite a lot). Continuing to use it in articles is like rubbing sandpaper on an open wound (and one more reason I will never pay for the DDi). I find it very telling that the in-house authors avoid all the new terminology completely in their novels. The smart ones barely even mention the Spellplague (I think RB mentioned it a total of 3 times in Swrodmage, which was terrific).
Either the Eladrin are Gold and Silver elves, or they are not, but you cannot have it both ways (which appears to to be the case right now).
Seriously, if scientists discovered tomorrow that we were all refugees from Venus 10 million years ago, would we all start calling ourselves 'Venusians'? The entire idea is preposterous and just plain silly. Take the word 'Eladrin' and throw it in the trash - it means NOTHING (or just stick it back in Planescape where it belongs).
Oh... and that story about Corellon creating the elves... that's just an allegory. About as true as the Greek or Norse Myths, or some of today's RW 'Holy Books'. 'Creation Myths' are just that - MYTHS. Just religious rhetoric spouted by lying priests of lying gods (so sayeth Ed, at least about the endless lying). I'm not saying their isn't a kernel of truth to them, but since the other race's myths disagree on the finer points, then you are choosing one race's version of the truth over the others. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
|
Edited by - Markustay on 24 Mar 2011 05:40:04 |
|
|
|
Aryalómë
Senior Scribe
USA
666 Posts |
Posted - 25 Mar 2011 : 23:46:53
|
Why do keep treating me like I'm stupid and I don't know anythi about FR?!?!?!? IKNOW all of that stuff is in Faerie. I really hate how you adsume stuff thatI know and try to apply and force your logic on me. I believe in the elvem creation. NOTHING is changing that.Eladrin ARE used in FR, have. Last Mythal Trilogy??????? I'mgoing back to what they are as fey.
Wooly or Sage- Can you please lock this thread? I am very tired of being treated like I'm stupid and having ideas forced down my throat. Plus, it's gotten way to faroff topic. |
|
|
|
The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 26 Mar 2011 : 00:13:22
|
Firstly, I don't think there's any real degree of scribes treating you as "stupid" trad. You simply have to accept that there are other scribes who might be just as knowledge about a particular part of Realmslore, as you.
However, since you've asked, I will seal this scroll for the time being.
*Casts Seal Scroll* |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
|
|
|
Topic |
|
|
|
New Eladrin on the Moonshae Isles
Topic Locked
