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Fellfire
Master of Realmslore
1965 Posts |
 Posted - 06 Mar 2011 : 19:32:14
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What seems to be the general consensus on these, especially as a dwarven weapon? I have used smokepowder sparingly in my campaign, but think this may be something I experiment with. A secluded group of dwarves with "secret" weapons may be just the place.
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Misanthorpe
Love is a lie. Only hate endures. Light is blinding. Only in darkness do we see clearly.
"Oh, you think darkness is your ally? You merely adopted the dark. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn't see the light until I was already a man, by then it was nothing to me but.. blinding. The shadows betray you because they belong to me." - Bane The Dark Knight Rises
Green Dragonscale Dice Bag by Crystalsidyll - check it out
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Edited by - Fellfire on 06 Mar 2011 19:34:39
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 06 Mar 2011 : 19:33:44
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| I always thought Dwarves in the Realms should have these...though the rate of fire is slow compared to the benefits. |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Fellfire
Master of Realmslore
1965 Posts |
Posted - 06 Mar 2011 : 19:35:55
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| It would blow an Illithid's head clean off. |
Misanthorpe
Love is a lie. Only hate endures. Light is blinding. Only in darkness do we see clearly.
"Oh, you think darkness is your ally? You merely adopted the dark. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn't see the light until I was already a man, by then it was nothing to me but.. blinding. The shadows betray you because they belong to me." - Bane The Dark Knight Rises
Green Dragonscale Dice Bag by Crystalsidyll - check it out
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 06 Mar 2011 : 19:44:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Fellfire
It would blow an Illithid's head clean off.
If you score a critical yes...as the stats are in the books, it only does marginally more damage than a Heavy Crossbow.
If you REALLY want the weapon to do some serious damage to the enemy, then you make the ammunition magical. I favor Screaming Bullets which cause Fear in anything within 20 feet of the line of fire...or better yet, I like to load up with Fireball Munitions which blow up into fireballs where they strike.
Just my own personal taste though.  |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 06 Mar 2011 : 22:07:13
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Arquebus (and similar firearms) have a substantially slower rate of fire than crossbows yet don't inflict a lot more damage. Their rate of fire and effective range is downright pathetic when compared against bows. They're also inaccurate, quite unreliable, and even somewhat dangerous to operate. They're expensive to purchase, maintain, and repair. They won't work after getting wet or fouled. Smokepowder is typically very expensive, if/when it's available at all.
Perhaps the smallest starwheel pistols are more concealable than the smallest hand crossbows. They also make a lot of noise and seem to have infinite appeal to tinkery gnomes and dwarves. Anybody can fire a gun (or a crossbow); even untrained archers, even wounded men (though reloading can be difficult).
So I'll personally stick with bows and even crossbows. Realms firearms are just too primitive to be more than novelties. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 06 Mar 2011 : 22:19:23
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The only firearm option to me is having multiple pistols. They have a range of 50, but do a decent damage. Having a few of them works well at the open of a battle until close range demands blades.
Nothing like pulling two of them at once though and unloading on someone first round.  |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Fellfire
Master of Realmslore
1965 Posts |
Posted - 07 Mar 2011 : 01:45:14
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| Speaking of magical munitions and such, I know of a magical arquebus detailed in one of the Ravenloft sourcebooks. Anybody know any others? Spelljammer, perhaps? |
Misanthorpe
Love is a lie. Only hate endures. Light is blinding. Only in darkness do we see clearly.
"Oh, you think darkness is your ally? You merely adopted the dark. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn't see the light until I was already a man, by then it was nothing to me but.. blinding. The shadows betray you because they belong to me." - Bane The Dark Knight Rises
Green Dragonscale Dice Bag by Crystalsidyll - check it out
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 07 Mar 2011 : 02:03:07
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May I present for your viewing pleasure, the official, unreleased 3e firearms.
Be sure to read Todd Lockwood's commentary on the piece for more info. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 07 Mar 2011 02:03:38 |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 07 Mar 2011 : 02:13:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
May I present for your viewing pleasure, the official, unreleased 3e firearms.
Be sure to read Todd Lockwood's commentary on the piece for more info.
Pretty! Makes me want to go all Dwarven in my next game and have meself some farpawr! |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Fellfire
Master of Realmslore
1965 Posts |
Posted - 07 Mar 2011 : 02:13:30
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| Thanks, Markus! That Blunderbuss is a perfect example of what I believe to be dwarven gun-smithing. Todd Lockwood is awesome. |
Misanthorpe
Love is a lie. Only hate endures. Light is blinding. Only in darkness do we see clearly.
"Oh, you think darkness is your ally? You merely adopted the dark. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn't see the light until I was already a man, by then it was nothing to me but.. blinding. The shadows betray you because they belong to me." - Bane The Dark Knight Rises
Green Dragonscale Dice Bag by Crystalsidyll - check it out
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 07 Mar 2011 : 02:43:27
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Try World of Warcraft for inspiration. 
Here's one you don't see everyday. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Fellfire
Master of Realmslore
1965 Posts |
Posted - 07 Mar 2011 : 02:50:35
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| That's great. Now, where in the Realms can I get me some Godfather stogies? |
Misanthorpe
Love is a lie. Only hate endures. Light is blinding. Only in darkness do we see clearly.
"Oh, you think darkness is your ally? You merely adopted the dark. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn't see the light until I was already a man, by then it was nothing to me but.. blinding. The shadows betray you because they belong to me." - Bane The Dark Knight Rises
Green Dragonscale Dice Bag by Crystalsidyll - check it out
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4436 Posts |
Posted - 07 Mar 2011 : 04:03:32
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I've used some firearms in my v3.5 and 4E games and unless your character is tailored to use them, your much better off with a bow/x-bow. Now, when you allow for weapons from Warcraft: The RPG and the feats therein, now firearms become a very viable piece of equipment. My favorite would be a long-rifle with a silence spell permanently enchanted on the item along with some very destructive ammunition.
And for those who utilize 4E rules, here's what I came up with for my own homebrew firearms. The weapons are pretty strong on the damage side, but with a Load Standard, they better be. One thing I'm going to have a problem with is players using them with powers that already deal a significant damage output (such as the Ranger) and how Load Standard interferes with specific, multiple attacking powers?
4E FIREARMS
SUPERIOR RANGED WEAPONS
One-Handed
Weapon Prof. Damage Range Price Weight Group Properties
Pistol +2 2d6 10/20 200 gp 3 lb. Firearms Load move, High crit
Two-Handed
Weapon Prof. Damage Range Price Weight Group Properties
Blunderbuss +2 3d6 Burst 3 325 gp 8 lb. Firearms Load Standard
Long Rifle +3 2d10 25/50 350 gp 6 lb. Firearms Load Standard, High crit
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 07 Mar 2011 : 13:44:25
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| A secret weapon that could backfire but with a nice damage output. bang bang!! |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 07 Mar 2011 : 14:21:06
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2E FRA offers the arquebus, caviler (light/horseman arquebus), blunderbuss (shotgun arquebus, "Gondgun"), musket (heavy arquebus), starwheel pistol (wheel-lock pistol, introduced by spelljammer), ribald (12-barreled carriage weapon, "Gond's pipes"), and bombard (2000lb siege cannon). Most of these firearms (and smokepowder) are fairly available within five years after the Avatar Crisis (ie, by around 1363DR); starwheels are very rare and bombards are only made by Thay.quote:
No magical versions of these firearms have appeared in the Realms, but given the tendency of wizards to play around with the latest toys, it is only a matter of time before the musket of accuracy or the blunderbuss +1 appears on the scene. They will be very rare, more likely found in the king's armory than in a dragon's lair or the tomb of an ancient lich.
I think the first appearance of magical firearms in Faerūn would be in the hands of Lantanese Gondsmen, Cormyr's royal Warmages, Thayvian shock troops, and raiders from spelljammer or planescape. Smokepowder has been known in Kara-Tur (and possibly Zakhara) for centuries, it seems possible that a few Tuigan champions might employ their versions of RW Chinese rocket-arrow chariots and such. Strange and magical firearms have appeared before in the earliest 1E Blackmoor and Greyhawk modules. More technologically sophisticated (and sometimes magical) firearms are featured prominently in various Ravenloft, Masque of the Red Death, Red Steel, Mystara, and Savage Coast accessories (there's even a few powerful firearm artifacts).
I would expect a fair number of magical firearms (comparable to magical crossbows) to have been developed in the decades prior to SpellPlague, and they should be standard magical item fare after the (4E) timejump.
Smokepowder is costly and requires magic to manufacture; thus it is available in only small quantities and few armies can afford to field firearms as primary weapons. Firearms are also unimpressive when compared to battle magic. I think these factors prevent firearm technology from developing beyond sucky basic levels, consequently preventing gunpowder empires from dominating the grand history of the Realms the way they did (and still do) on Earth. |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 07 Mar 2011 14:40:42 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 07 Mar 2011 : 18:06:56
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I had some development of firearms in 4e Kara-Tur (it was supposed to go into the K-T project).
HOMEBREW:
After the Hordewar, Thay and Shou-Lung opened up diplomatic relations, which resulted in a Thayan Enclave in the east. Within the next ten years, two more were opened (in Tu Lung and Kozakura*).
The Red Wizards had developed bombards (canon) using alchemical processes - the Smokepowder formula being a closely-guarded secret of the Gondsmen. However, in the east, the Shou had developed a fairly simple process for enchanting large amounts of Blackpowder (turning it into Smokepowder), and had am entire (government-sanctioned) guild dedicated to its creation - the Skylighter's guild.
The Shou had mostly used it for fireworks and decorative holiday displays; their few forays into military applications usually met with disaster (and it was getting harder to find 'volunteers' to use the new weaponry). On the other hand, the Thayans had progressed well with the construction of weaponry able to withstand the kinetic energy, but couldn't produce anything in mass-quantities because of the limiting factor of the alchemical (magical) components.
SO, when the Red Wizards began to work alongside their Wujen counterparts, Smokepowder weaponry made huge advances in the east, which eventually trickled-over to the west. Hand-gunnes are still fairly uncommon in Faerūn, at least by land-based fighters, but most navies have adopted the use of canon, and seamen are often seen carrying firearms (to compete with the powerful Thayan and Shou navies). Smokepowder can usually be obtained in the port-districts of most large cities, but it is still pricey.
Gunnes remain more of a conversation-piece in Faerūn, being at-first carried by the nobility (who rarely even bothered to load them) as more of a sign of wealth, but are ever-so-slowly being adopted by fighters here and there, and even some militaries are experimenting with creating regiments of 'Arquebusiers' (notably Cormyr and Sembia, Tethyr, and Amn).
*Kozakuro underwent a 'rebellion period' a decade after the official canon setting books, which in the end allowed four other nations to establish some power within their lands (Wa, Shou, T'u, and Koryo). This period is seen depicted in the anime Rurouni Kenshin, and in the Tom Cruise movie The Last Samurai. This setting offers the best example for people wanting to understand (and play in) the cultural shift that occurred when the emperor reestablished control with use of gun-armed (commoner) troops, rather then traditional Samurai. About 20 years before the the 4e setting (1479DR), Tan mu Rong, a nobleman who was assigned by the Shou to 'watch their interests' betrayed his patrons and lead a revolt of Kozakura against the foreign powers that held sway in his beloved homeland. In the end, the Kozkuran Emperor was restored to full power, but Tan Mu Rong was banished for "betraying those he had sworn allegiance to". With heavy heart he obeyed his emperor and left Kozahura dishonered, and traveled about Kara-Tur as a Ronin mercenary, until he had a strange dream and felt a call from the distant west...
You can learn more about what became of Tan Mu Rong in THIS WotC thread.  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 07 Mar 2011 : 18:34:16
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Thay's alchemy may have been inspired by Oil of Fiery Burning or even the sometimes explosive consequences from mixing particular potion formulae together.
A 2000lb bombard would probably be comparable to this beast. Some interesting cannon-making lore can be found here and here. Basically, the best cannon (that is, the ones which could fire the heaviest shot without cracking or blowing open) were forged from a single casting which was then bored (drilled) out ... accurate cannon-boring on that scale would be tremendously difficult with hand methods. The great bombards of Thay probably don't use steel, but rather some kind of fantastic or magically reinforced alloy (adamantine, etc). They apparently do not rust even after years of immersion in salt water.
Gunnes (or at least smokepowder charges for them) are ridiculously expensive, so yeah, they probably see use primarily as "gentlemen's weapons" and status/wealth symbols among affluent nobility. Lots of these rich fools can pay the premium for magical toys. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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Fellfire
Master of Realmslore
1965 Posts |
Posted - 08 Mar 2011 : 05:08:01
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| My biggest problem with giving PCs access to smokepowder is that it starts with the arquebus (blunderbuss, whatever) and before you know it, they want to make grenades and landmines. Give them an inch and they will try to take a mile. |
Misanthorpe
Love is a lie. Only hate endures. Light is blinding. Only in darkness do we see clearly.
"Oh, you think darkness is your ally? You merely adopted the dark. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn't see the light until I was already a man, by then it was nothing to me but.. blinding. The shadows betray you because they belong to me." - Bane The Dark Knight Rises
Green Dragonscale Dice Bag by Crystalsidyll - check it out
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36798 Posts |
Posted - 08 Mar 2011 : 05:27:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Fellfire
My biggest problem with giving PCs access to smokepowder is that it starts with the arquebus (blunderbuss, whatever) and before you know it, they want to make grenades and landmines. Give them an inch and they will try to take a mile.
Then throw lots of fire magic at them. |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4436 Posts |
Posted - 08 Mar 2011 : 06:22:23
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quote:
Originally posted by Fellfire
My biggest problem with giving PCs access to smokepowder is that it starts with the arquebus (blunderbuss, whatever) and before you know it, they want to make grenades and landmines. Give them an inch and they will try to take a mile.
Grenades wouldn't be that over-powering as long as the smokepowder is magically imbued and would be muck akin to a lobbed fireball (I'd put a cap on the damage output and require a set Reflex save).
As for land-mines, it'd be better to go with already created materials/magic items such as blast discs (found in the Magic Item Compendium) instead of devising their own. |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 08 Mar 2011 : 07:01:13
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Modern grenades don't encompass as much volume as a fireball or globe of missiles, both of which PCs can already access. Grenades in the Realms would be weaker still; smokepowder probably isn't as powerful as modern explosives, and they'd probably be encased in clay/ceramic pottery shells so they'd have far less brisance than a metallic frag grenade (metal shells are not impossible, but again, Realms smokepowder is a weaker propellant so clay would likely work best). Most importantly, they'd require primitive burning fuse mechanisms which are prone to poor timing (inconsistent burn speeds) and high failure rates (they might fizzle out, especially when thrown). Such devices might be better suited as placed bombs than as grenade missiles; they certainly wouldn't be safer or more reliable than the firearms.
Grenades (and fireballs) can be dramatically useful within enclosed spaces where explosive overpressure can do the most damage, they're far less useful in open spaces. |
[/Ayrik] |
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DBG
Acolyte
United Kingdom
29 Posts |
Posted - 08 Mar 2011 : 09:34:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Arik
Modern grenades don't encompass as much volume as a fireball or globe of missiles, both of which PCs can already access. Grenades in the Realms would be weaker still; smokepowder probably isn't as powerful as modern explosives, and they'd probably be encased in clay/ceramic pottery shells so they'd have far less brisance than a metallic frag grenade (metal shells are not impossible, but again, Realms smokepowder is a weaker propellant so clay would likely work best). Most importantly, they'd require primitive burning fuse mechanisms which are prone to poor timing (inconsistent burn speeds) and high failure rates (they might fizzle out, especially when thrown). Such devices might be better suited as placed bombs than as grenade missiles; they certainly wouldn't be safer or more reliable than the firearms.
Grenades (and fireballs) can be dramatically useful within enclosed spaces where explosive overpressure can do the most damage, they're far less useful in open spaces.
Elaine Cunningham wrote about such devices in Silver Shadows, though she called them Tinkersdam's Candles.
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Fellfire
Master of Realmslore
1965 Posts |
Posted - 12 Mar 2011 : 22:50:28
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| Is there a Rapid Reload feat (3.5) specifically associated with firearms? |
Misanthorpe
Love is a lie. Only hate endures. Light is blinding. Only in darkness do we see clearly.
"Oh, you think darkness is your ally? You merely adopted the dark. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn't see the light until I was already a man, by then it was nothing to me but.. blinding. The shadows betray you because they belong to me." - Bane The Dark Knight Rises
Green Dragonscale Dice Bag by Crystalsidyll - check it out
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 12 Mar 2011 : 23:35:05
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No, but I can't see why you couldn't just take that feat and apply it to firearms (the feat just amounts to repeated practice so you develop speed, and the ability to reload without even looking). In other words, it would be a subset of that feat, simlar to a skill -
Rapid Reload {firearms}
______________________________________ . ________________________________________
Lets not forget Cadderly's bazooka.
A Drow handbow with vials of explosive alchemical material that break upon impact.
Whats kewler then an Emo Drow with two swords and big kitty? A priest with a hot Ninja GF, a hand-canon, and a Yo-yo!!!
Now, if he had only named the dwarves Tweedle-dum and Tweedle-dee, that would have been epic. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 12 Mar 2011 23:39:06 |
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Fellfire
Master of Realmslore
1965 Posts |
Posted - 13 Mar 2011 : 00:01:38
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I had planned on doing exactly that. Just figured I'd ask the experts if somebody beat me to it.
Oh, and check THIS one out.
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Misanthorpe
Love is a lie. Only hate endures. Light is blinding. Only in darkness do we see clearly.
"Oh, you think darkness is your ally? You merely adopted the dark. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn't see the light until I was already a man, by then it was nothing to me but.. blinding. The shadows betray you because they belong to me." - Bane The Dark Knight Rises
Green Dragonscale Dice Bag by Crystalsidyll - check it out
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Edited by - Fellfire on 13 Mar 2011 00:20:49 |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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Dwarven Arquebus
