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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
 Posted - 03 Mar 2011 : 14:46:10
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While re-reading the Summoning, Melegaunt mentions to Galaeron about ArcNaturals, which is what sorcerers (3E variation of wizards who have an innate ability to cast magic. For reference this is on page 71 of the novel.
Anyways, have ArcNaturals been expanded on further beyond this brief mention in the novel?
How do Arcanists view these ArcNaturals? I would guess they look down on them.
Must they major on a specific field (Mentalism, Invention, Variation) with a minor one and restricted access to the last, like the Arcanists do? Or is it a free for all for them?
Thoughts? Ideas?
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Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2449 Posts |
Posted - 03 Mar 2011 : 16:32:53
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I don't think they've ever been described further, though I agree with you that they would probably be looked down upon. After all, the Netherese were already casting like sorcerers, only with the spells known of a wizard. That takes all the advantages away from the sorcerer.
My own feelings are that they wouldn't specialize in any of the three schools, which is a fairly minor advantage, and they'd still be able to cast what spells they know a bit more than an arcanist, but otherwise they're pretty much screwed (even more than sorcerers are in 3e). And yeah, they'd definitely be looked down upon as the "poor cousins" of the arcanists. I doubt any of them rose to any sort of power. |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 03 Mar 2011 : 18:39:57
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| I wonder if one of them could technically become an Archwizard ruling their own enclave? No respect from the peers if so, but that would be a unique Archwizard. |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2449 Posts |
Posted - 03 Mar 2011 : 20:05:15
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Technically, eh, maybe. All it takes to rule your own enclave is to create the thing in the first place. The 10th level spell itself (Proctiv's Move Mountain, iirc) would be available for a sufficiently high level sorcerer to take. Unfortunately, it requires a mythallar as a material component, which is probably too complex (ie: needing too many spels in the crafting) for a sorcerer to make. On the other hand, a sorcerer could always just stalk a budding archwizard-to-be, kill the guy after he finishes making the mythallar, and then claim it as his own. Then he'd have what he needs for the creation of his own enclave.
Now, whether he'd then be able to get anyone to live there is another question entirely. |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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Kno
Senior Scribe
452 Posts |
Posted - 03 Mar 2011 : 22:42:39
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| I'm sure they were popular in Low Netheril. |
z455t |
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2449 Posts |
Posted - 03 Mar 2011 : 22:43:40
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| I doubt it. No one in Low Netheril would be able to tell the difference, so sorcerers would be hated/feared/whatever just as much as a regular arcanist. |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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Knight of the Gate
Senior Scribe
USA
624 Posts |
Posted - 03 Mar 2011 : 22:53:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Hoondatha
I doubt it. No one in Low Netheril would be able to tell the difference, so sorcerers would be hated/feared/whatever just as much as a regular arcanist.
Except that they are (by definition) charismatic buggers. I always thought 3E's insistence that Sorcerers were 'outcasts' was kind of moronic, given that it's Wizards that tend to be insular, smelly, crotchety, single-minded intellectuals and sorcerers are more likely to be affable, good looking, approachable, and well-rounded.
If anything, wizards should be the outcasts, and sorcerers should be seen as the 'heroes of the people', since they can come from any background and are more likely to be actually working magic in poor or remote locations than wizards. |
How can life be so bountiful, providing such sublime rewards for mediocrity? -Umberto Ecco |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 03 Mar 2011 : 23:29:03
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So if an ArcNatural is adept at doing things 'naturally', then what is an ArcAnist good at? 
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"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 04 Mar 2011 : 15:41:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
So if an ArcNatural is adept at doing things 'naturally', then what is an ArcAnist good at?
LOL
Is there a reason its ArcNatural and not Arcnatural?? (I know I typed it as it appeared in the novel) |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 05 Mar 2011 : 00:53:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Hoondatha
I don't think they've ever been described further, though I agree with you that they would probably be looked down upon. After all, the Netherese were already casting like sorcerers, only with the spells known of a wizard. That takes all the advantages away from the sorcerer.
I'm not sure about that. If Melegaunt's reaction to Galaeron's natural affinity to magic is any indication, I say the ancient Netherese wizards respected the ArcNaturals, though mayhap not as much as they did their peers. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 07 Mar 2011 : 14:10:41
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| Hmmm, or perhaps the resepect factor comes from those tapping in the Shadow Weave since it shows an alternate means to cast magic, kind of like them? |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 07 Mar 2011 : 17:05:51
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| I don't think Melegaunt (or anyone else from Shade) is necessarily representative of Netherese arcanists. The Tanthuls and Shadovar seem pragmatic and utilitarian: they do not overestimate nor underestimate the abilities of those whom they might use as tools to further their own agenda. Netheril, and the arcanists foremost, were reknowned for their arrogance towards those who cannot wield Nether magic; they had little respect for organic systems of magic practiced by elves, they might feel similarly towards mere sorcerers (unless these received a proper education in arcane matters). |
[/Ayrik] |
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 07 Mar 2011 : 17:08:13
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| True. The Tanthuls were visionaries, and not simply fools with delusions of grandeur. They understood that magic has multiple sources and different means of being tapped into. But I think they are still arrogant in their own way. |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 08 Mar 2011 : 07:47:18
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The Tanthuls are arrogant. However, if the need arises, they can rein in their arrogance and feign humility. In The Summoning, Melegaunt kept on telling Vala to stop calling him Great One, or something like it, for such would blow his cover.
*Talking about the Tanthuls makes me more eager to read PSK's new trilogy. How I wish it can be released this year. |
Every beginning has an end. |
Edited by - Dennis on 08 Mar 2011 07:48:00 |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 08 Mar 2011 : 07:55:53
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quote:
Originally posted by Alisttair
Hmmm, or perhaps the resepect factor comes from those tapping in the Shadow Weave since it shows an alternate means to cast magic, kind of like them?
And because some of them are sorcerers themselves---Clariburnus, Yder, and Aglarel. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 08 Mar 2011 : 11:43:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
quote:
Originally posted by Alisttair
Hmmm, or perhaps the resepect factor comes from those tapping in the Shadow Weave since it shows an alternate means to cast magic, kind of like them?
And because some of them are sorcerers themselves---Clariburnus, Yder, and Aglarel.
Book 3 of the Return of the Archwizards is named The Sorcerer. I guess I didn't clue in till now.  |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2449 Posts |
Posted - 08 Mar 2011 : 17:38:37
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| I always thought that title referred to that idiot elf protagonist. But since I stopped reading after Summoning, I don't know for sure. |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36797 Posts |
Posted - 08 Mar 2011 : 18:30:05
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quote:
Originally posted by Hoondatha
I always thought that title referred to that idiot elf protagonist. But since I stopped reading after Summoning, I don't know for sure.
I thought it referred to the elf, as well. |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 08 Mar 2011 : 19:54:49
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| I uncharacteristically didn't mind this particular elf at all. A dwarf or even a bumbling human would've been better, but the elf still did okay. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 09 Mar 2011 : 12:02:44
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| Yeah actually it would be the Elf. Or is it a dual-meaning (like alluded to for The Two Towers and Return of the King)?? |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 10 Mar 2011 : 19:48:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Hoondatha
I always thought that title referred to that idiot elf protagonist. But since I stopped reading after Summoning, I don't know for sure.
I thought it referred to the elf, as well.
Indeed. It was Galaeron. That those three Tanthuls are sorcerers [as I noted] were not mentioned in RotA; only in LoD. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Wrigley
Senior Scribe
Czech Republic
605 Posts |
Posted - 07 May 2012 : 00:10:17
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| From my research it seems that Netherese or at least Shadovars look at sorcerers as fitting for soldier's life. (many of their warriors are Ftr/Src multiclass) |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 09 May 2012 : 02:17:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Alisttair
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
quote:
Originally posted by Alisttair
Hmmm, or perhaps the resepect factor comes from those tapping in the Shadow Weave since it shows an alternate means to cast magic, kind of like them?
And because some of them are sorcerers themselves---Clariburnus, Yder, and Aglarel.
Book 3 of the Return of the Archwizards is named The Sorcerer. I guess I didn't clue in till now.
"The Sorcerer" referred to in the title is not a Shadovar prince. It's Galaeron.
Clariburnus, Yder, and Aglarel didn't exactly don the major roles, or rather didn't have much 'screen time.' It was Rivalen (a theuge), Melegaunt (a wizard), and Telamont (a wizard) who did.
quote:
Originally posted by Wrigley
From my research it seems that Netherese or at least Shadovars look at sorcerers as fitting for soldier's life. (many of their warriors are Ftr/Src multiclass)
Given the Shadovar princes I mentioned as examples, this may not be the case. Lamorak (a wizard, not sorcerer) is the head of Shade's army (next to his father, of course).
quote:
Originally posted by Alisttair
Yeah actually it would be the Elf. Or is it a dual-meaning (like alluded to for The Two Towers and Return of the King)??
I doubt it. As I mentioned above, the three sorcerers among the Shadovar's ranks were hardly focused in the story, as opposed to Galaeron, who was all over the place. |
Every beginning has an end. |
Edited by - Dennis on 09 May 2012 02:21:50 |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3740 Posts |
Posted - 09 May 2012 : 19:23:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
quote:
Originally posted by Wrigley
From my research it seems that Netherese or at least Shadovars look at sorcerers as fitting for soldier's life. (many of their warriors are Ftr/Src multiclass)
Given the Shadovar princes I mentioned as examples, this may not be the case. Lamorak (a wizard, not sorcerer) is the head of Shade's army (next to his father, of course).
-Indeed. A soldier, who lives a very strict and regimented life, wouldn't seem to mesh well with a Sorcerer, who is typically seen as a lot more 'chaotic'- in their lifestyle in relation to magic, not necessarily alignment- as opposed to Wizards, who are typically seen as a lot more 'lawful'- again, in their lifestyle in relation to magic, not necessarily alignment. |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)
Elves of Faerūn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerūn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 09 May 2012 : 20:04:02
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
So if an ArcNatural is adept at doing things 'naturally', then what is an ArcAnist good at?
[I just noticed this...]
I don't know. You tell me. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 09 May 2012 : 20:06:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Alisttair
Is there a reason its ArcNatural and not Arcnatural?? (I know I typed it as it appeared in the novel)
I think it was just a typo error as it only appeared on that page. Had it been mentioned many times on the succeeding pages, I would have thought that's really how it's spelled. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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ArcNaturals - Sorcerers of Netheril
