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Kentinal
Great Reader
4693 Posts |
 Posted - 29 Nov 2011 : 00:13:37
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Not sure I should even bother, however maybe fails Wisdom check.
When Drow were first discovered by humans the lore was clear. The Intel indicated that they killed almost anything else they encountered, that they hard female Clerics of up to level 10 and male Clerics up to maybe level 6, that this Evil race worshiped a demon named Lolth.
As more and more encounters occurred with the Drow, more was learned, that some Drow would fight other Drow to even protect a human. It was also learned that the females could achieve higher levels in Cleric magic and it appeared that the males served another Drow deity and could indeed achieve higher levels then first believed/reported. It was also learned that that Demon (Lolth) was actually a goddess. The deity of the "Good" Drow though still has been harder to believe in and report. Despite the fact they exist.
The same argument can be applied to discussion of Orcs, not all that much is known about them because for the most part encounters with them have been with the raiders with to occasional revenge attacks that was not looking for information just revenge or slight chance to rescue a captive. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 29 Nov 2011 : 01:26:12
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| Knowledge of the orcs (in the Realms) was not gained from limited intel collected during minor skirmishes against an elusive race. Knowledge of the orcs, of what they do to their enemies, is available because the orcs have been killing other races for thousands and thousands of years, they have threatened many civilizations and even directly exterminated a few. |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 29 Nov 2011 01:27:23 |
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BEAST
Master of Realmslore
USA
1714 Posts |
Posted - 29 Nov 2011 : 01:29:57
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quote:
Originally posted by Therise
Or if Oubold-the-Exarch remained bizarrely peaceful for the rest of his life including the spellplague, why didn't his immediate successor take over after Obould's death and launch even a small war against someone to gain additional territory or resources?
Instead, we have a series of apparently peaceful throne successions. No apparent challenges to the throne from brothers, cousins, or any usurpers outside the Obould lineage. Cormyr has more court intrigue and backstabbing in a single year.
There appears to be some confusion on this in the books.
In The Lone Drow, the elf Innovindil killed Obould's son Urlgen. This was a huge disappointment to Obould.
In the Prelude to The Orc King, we're told that Drizzt fought with Obould II in the great war of the Year of Solitary Cloister (1408 DR).
But in Gauntlgrym, we're told that as of 1409 DR, Obould I had died of old age, and Bruenor had handled the recent transition in power to Obould II, who was also known as Urlgen, with great tact and diplomacy.
What?! 
It's possible that Obould I may have had another son and named him Urlgen (a second Urlgen--not to be confused with Urlgen the Second or Urlgen II  ); and in Obould I's old age, he may have handed over the throne to this son, and that son may have led some minor battle, in which he fought with Drizzt.
But why would this son have survived? Minor or great, shouldn't Drizzt have ended this fool?
And if he somehow survived, could his ascension and continued reign have ever been legitimately called a smooth transition in power?
Or did he? Maybe that Obould II got whacked in 1408 DR, and then another Obould II  quickly took power and led the kingdom in peace.
Maybe in Obould I's old age, an otherwise unnamed orc prince lauded himself as would-be "Obould II", but there was a dispute as to which of Obould's sons should actually take on the family name, and Drizzt fought with and killed this presumptuous son (TOK); and then a kinder, gentler prince rose to power in his stead and rightfully was named Obould II, and this was the king with whom Bruenor dealt in diplomacy (Gaunt.).
These are just some musings... |
"'You don't know my history,' he said dryly."
--Drizzt Do'Urden (The Pirate King, Part 1: Chapter 2)
<"Comprehensive Chronology of R.A. Salvatore Forgotten Realms Works"> |
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BEAST
Master of Realmslore
USA
1714 Posts |
Posted - 29 Nov 2011 : 01:58:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Icelander
Indeed. Even if Obould was an exceptional orc, why were his sixteen successors all exceptional in the same way? Why wasn't one of them a devoted worshipper of Gruumsh-as-Talos? Or just a ruthless power-hungry monarch? A weak, decadent king easily overthrown by a bloodthirsty baron?
[...]
The timejump jumped over all the truly interesting history of the Kingdom of Many Arrows and just assumed that because one orcish king wanted it, it would happen and remain so for a century.
There is a discrepancy in the books as to how many orc King Oboulds there were over the century.
In The Orc King's Prelude, we're told that Obould VI ruled around 1472 DR.
But in the FRCG (4E), we're told that Obould XVII ruled in 1479 DR.
Why the difference?
Did the Kingdom of Many-Arrows go through 11 kings (Obould VI through Obould XVI) in 7 years (1472-1479DR)?
Probably not, as the FRCG (4E) tells us that the kingdom had been stable since 1460 DR.
So maybe there really have been 17 Oboulds, as recorded by some sages, but only 6 have actually shared Obould I's vision of peace and mutual defense with the Silver Marches, leaving 11 upstarts who strayed away and failed, and this majority of the Oboulds has been effectively disregarded and ignored by other sages.
Or perhaps the upstarts were conspiratorially disavowed. As with the drow, it's as if they never existed. History is told by the victor, and the politically correct Oboulds have proven victorious in Many-Arrows.
Now there's you some intrigue, to go right along with your civil war.
But it would require us to see the orcs as being capable of even more human traits than we were already contemplating. |
"'You don't know my history,' he said dryly."
--Drizzt Do'Urden (The Pirate King, Part 1: Chapter 2)
<"Comprehensive Chronology of R.A. Salvatore Forgotten Realms Works"> |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 29 Nov 2011 : 04:24:57
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The magical chaos that ensued after the Spellplague not only had effects both magical and physical, but it also disrupted other dimensions, including Temporal prime. This temporal disruption continues to have ripples over the years... some worse then others.
Last I heard, Obould was his own Grandpa.  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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creyzi4zb12
Learned Scribe
Philippines
129 Posts |
Posted - 30 Nov 2011 : 19:42:36
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Some good hearted orc facts found in novels
- I Remember there was this one orc-general from Zhentil Keep who made a final speech to Rinda (the maker of the Cyrinishard) when the place was going down together. He said something like "If they treat us like monsters, then we be monsters!" And then this huge bridge where civilians are running at capsizes into two, then the orcs slaughter them.
- In the Netheril Trilogy, the orcs under the rule of the One True King where deemed to be peaceful orcs. There was one scene where an orc platoon, a maid (the owner of the cottage), a dwarf, an elf and a human raven barbarian had supper together in one night.
- Has anybody heard of the Shield of Innocence? He's an orc (an orog = a CHAOTIC EVIL orog) PALADIN of TORM I read in one novel book (I think it was War in Tethyr)
- In Gauntlygrym, there were paintings in the walls that illustrated orcs and dwarves cohabitating
I don't know why everybody has a huge problem about this whole KoMA issue, when the above events haven't been on their list yet.
It's DnD anything can happen...
Seriously, I find the Sarrukh empire falling or the Netheril Empire Surviving more unbelievable compared in KoMA surviving. |
orc orc orc orc orc orc orc orc orc orc orc |
Edited by - creyzi4zb12 on 30 Nov 2011 19:50:25 |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 30 Nov 2011 : 20:04:06
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| Shield of Innocence, a dual-scimitar orog paladin of Torm, was introduced (and killed) in War in Tethyr. He was actually quite unremarkable, just another predictably selfless sacrificial paladin-martyr serving a very generic Lawful Stupid interpretation of Torm ... I wouldn't qualify this "unique" orog-paladin as being anything more than an awful author's failed attempt to steal a popular idea from a better author. |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 30 Nov 2011 20:08:53 |
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creyzi4zb12
Learned Scribe
Philippines
129 Posts |
Posted - 01 Dec 2011 : 02:54:41
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Nevertheless, it did happen. And it is canon (approved by WotC)...
BTW: Drizzt seems to be getting into the dark-side nowadays in the Gauntlygrym and NevWood novels.
BTW: There was this note from FR wiki once that I read about an orc named Oblon Oblivion....but it seems that they've removed it there for unknown reasons. The note said something like this...
The orcs are an ancient species, their hatred for the human race is unmatched. Orcs believe that they are eternally at war with mankind. It's true that humans think that orcs are just brainless brutes, which was in fact real, but that age has gone and their intelligence has increased greatly, in fact an orc that went by the name of <":"/> (orcish text when written), Oblon Oblivion (orcish language when pronounced), The Green Hammer (The meaning), son of Grevious the leader of an orc mountain tribe named Gorvenus, based in the Akrab Mountains (the mountains iron) which was run by the Mercedez army (known as the army of the labyrinth, it is consisting of men whose god is the minotaur, their armour is bull-like, in respect of the heavenly fusion which unites bull and man to form the ultimate being). The orcs forged their weaponry and some even made armour from their surroundings, the mountain, nearby villages which they raided very often knowing that the soldiers wouldn't get there in time due to the distance between. The orcs were a primitive humanoid/goblinoid race who were driven to the brink of extinction in most parts of the world because of man, there are such seasons involving orc hunting. Oblon Oblivious changed the face of the orc for ever, he spent years taking the ignorance of man but in the meanwhile he accepted it, he was secretly configuring a new line of military for them to ensure that the survival of the orc would last through winter and maybe one day make the human race face certain doom, he developed a military program so sophisticated that even the humans could not figure out how it operated, he had the orcs adopt the human language also, and made certain armour and weapons, he developed new types of orcs and with in 5 days of his finish he united every mountain orc tribe, he put them under special training for every type, he evolved their intelligence to a wider selection. And with in 1.7 weeks he destroyed the Mercedez army, it went so fast because the underestimated the orc, they came swarming out of the mountains in massive numbers with a strategic military plan.
Orcs organize bands of trained soldiers, bands consist of 10,000 orcs per, bands are places into unite, units consist of about 50 bands, there are so many types of different units over thousands, units are placed with in sectors which contain 100 units, 5 of which are multiplied (5 of the same units). which are there for put into legions or as the orcish terms describe it "Hordes". The have also developed a fusion technique, a fusion of 2 bands which are called "Doom Codes" in doom codes thay just don't have another band match up beside, they equalize it out for a perfect shape consisting of 20,000 strong, at the sign of a hand signal the single band, every orc soldier steps 5 inches from his other companions so that everyone is separated as an individual, then the second band walks into the first band and when they find their place in line, then at another hand signal they lock at the same time and make a solid. But on top of all these bands, units, sectors, and that, there are positions above, there are 2 types of hordes. One hordes is the main army that out, the other hordes consist of completely different units, and are also known as the stronger horde.
If you're all asking how I got this info. I once copy pasted that info. on an orc thread (orc orc orc orc orc orc orc orc thread) in Boards Wizards.
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orc orc orc orc orc orc orc orc orc orc orc |
Edited by - creyzi4zb12 on 01 Dec 2011 06:06:35 |
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creyzi4zb12
Learned Scribe
Philippines
129 Posts |
Posted - 01 Dec 2011 : 06:13:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
To me it seems like an explosively unstable situation constantly averting detonation, it's only a matter of time (borrowed time) before some external force or internal trigger or unavoidable catalyst causes the expected and inevitable to occur.
You forget one note here...It's also only a matter of time when the other nations accept them as friends and allies, since Dark Arrow has stood for more than 4 decades now. - Even Drizzt's company of HEROES has an orc with them in Gauntlygrymn. Yes, we should take this to note as well.
- Jessa was a female orc, and a member of Drizzt's party. And there's a huge 10 year experience of camaraderie between them (before she and that gnome left). Who knows, maybe she had a love affair with Drizzt in one occassion during their adventures. And she now hold Drizzt's HALF-ORC BABY!! 
- Here's a good speculation in the future novels of RAS: Drizzt goes into the darkside (considering the hints in the books right now), and goes on a killing rampage/conquest to make his own kingdom. His half-orc son stops him and beats him up to a pulp.
BTW: Forget that last paragraph. That was me ranting. |
orc orc orc orc orc orc orc orc orc orc orc |
Edited by - creyzi4zb12 on 01 Dec 2011 06:27:39 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 01 Dec 2011 : 14:56:41
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quote:
Originally posted by creyzi4zb12
Some good hearted orc facts found in novels
- I Remember there was this one orc-general from Zhentil Keep who made a final speech to Rinda (the maker of the Cyrinishard) when the place was going down together. He said something like "If they treat us like monsters, then we be monsters!".
Genral Vrakk.
HERO of the Tuigan war (along with his 'men'), and awarded a medal by King Azoun himself (in the novel Crusade).
One of my all-time favorite characters; he shows how a REAL Orc leader behaves, not like that wimp Obould. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Bladewind
Master of Realmslore
Netherlands
1280 Posts |
Posted - 01 Dec 2011 : 15:42:57
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I think we all agree to the argument that if the kingdom of Many Arrows has a new religious majority favouring the concepts of the warriors code (think a more brutal form of bushido) set out by Obould the Exarch of Warriors that the kingdom could become stabilised when led by a powerful figurehead. A Warriors code can very well lead to cement a good reputation for orcish mercenary companies, and could give the kingdom (if they remained neutral) a prosperous venue and commodity. If the Kingdom of Many Arrows would stand side to side with the other areas in the north against any hordes of mountain orcs they can very well achieve some measure of trust among its allies.
Likewise a kingdom still governed by the dogma of Gruumsh' wanton destruction is unsustainable. Such a kingdom will smash itself against an insurmountable barrier albeit a political, economical, ecological or mystical hurdle. Gruumsh knows he can use his people in his manner because of their strength and numbers are the only renewable resource available to him, and the occasional success of a horde gives him massive amounts of worship. |
My campaign sketches
Druidic Groves
Creature Feature: Giant Spiders |
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creyzi4zb12
Learned Scribe
Philippines
129 Posts |
Posted - 02 Dec 2011 : 00:24:19
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Yes, General Vraak/Vrakk (the novels seem to change the spelling of his name most of the time, or is it just my mind playing tricks on me.), hero of the Tuigan War. It was said that his dispatched army against the Tuigan was 100 troop strong,
. And no orc fell during the battle against the Tuigan Horde, although there was one orc that lost an arm during the campaign.
After the Tuigan invasion (and before the Cyrinishard) Vraak and his 100 man army established an outpost in the middle of enemy territory (not the Tuigan, but Cormyr itself)
So there you have it! General Vrakk/Vraak, a genius orc military general, perhaps even better than Obould himself, since he was able to win against an army with a bigger number compared to his (with fewer casualties compared to the DarkArrow dude too). And was able to survive in the middle of enemy lines with little resources available (definitely using the orc's mighty knack for survival).
More orc lore from novels coming soon..... |
orc orc orc orc orc orc orc orc orc orc orc |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 27 Mar 2012 : 16:47:15
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quote:
Originally posted by BEAST
quote:
Originally posted by Icelander
Indeed. Even if Obould was an exceptional orc, why were his sixteen successors all exceptional in the same way? Why wasn't one of them a devoted worshipper of Gruumsh-as-Talos? Or just a ruthless power-hungry monarch? A weak, decadent king easily overthrown by a bloodthirsty baron?
[...]
The timejump jumped over all the truly interesting history of the Kingdom of Many Arrows and just assumed that because one orcish king wanted it, it would happen and remain so for a century.
There is a discrepancy in the books as to how many orc King Oboulds there were over the century.
In The Orc King's Prelude, we're told that Obould VI ruled around 1472 DR.
But in the FRCG (4E), we're told that Obould XVII ruled in 1479 DR.
Why the difference?
Did the Kingdom of Many-Arrows go through 11 kings (Obould VI through Obould XVI) in 7 years (1472-1479DR)?
Probably not, as the FRCG (4E) tells us that the kingdom had been stable since 1460 DR.
So maybe there really have been 17 Oboulds, as recorded by some sages, but only 6 have actually shared Obould I's vision of peace and mutual defense with the Silver Marches, leaving 11 upstarts who strayed away and failed, and this majority of the Oboulds has been effectively disregarded and ignored by other sages.
Or perhaps the upstarts were conspiratorially disavowed. As with the drow, it's as if they never existed. History is told by the victor, and the politically correct Oboulds have proven victorious in Many-Arrows.
Now there's you some intrigue, to go right along with your civil war.
But it would require us to see the orcs as being capable of even more human traits than we were already contemplating.
To add more thoughts to the discussion:
quote:
Originally Posted by George Krashos
Tom Costa sorted out Obould in an old WotC website article titled "THe Hunter's Blades Trilogy: A History of Many Arrows". That article relevantly said:
Unfortunately, the mountain orcs of the Ice Mountains had other ideas. The humans were under attack from their first day in the Citadel. Some fifty years later in 1104 DR, an orc horde came down from Dead Orc Pass in such numbers that it simply overwhelmed the defenders. Heedless of losses on both sides, the Battle of Many Arrows lasted for more than four months. It ended with the fall of Citadel Felbarr and outright slaughter of the remaining garrisons. Some 40,000 orcs crammed into the fortified city, renamed the Citadel of Many Arrows, which now stood as an example of how orcs could conquer the weaker folk of the south.
One survivor, a wizard who fled by teleport, said the orcs simply "hurled themselves at the walls. We slew them with arrows. . . . The sky rained arrows, with orcs packed so close together that no shaft could miss. But the time came when all our arrows and spells were gone. By then, there were so many dead orcs that the living ones just piled them up against our walls in a heap. It was so high that they could climb it like a mountain and walk in over our battlements. The end wasn't long in coming, then."
Since that day of slaughter, known as the Battle of Many Arrows, orcs have ruled the city. After much bloodletting, Obould, an enormous, bald-headed orc said to be as tall as any two orc warriors (perhaps due to some giantish blood), proclaimed himself King Obould I of the Many-Arrows. The first of his line, Obould still pledged allegiance to the orc kings of the Ice Mountains that had supported him. Obould held his throne largely because he seemed immune to any poisons his rivals could get hold of and also because he shrewdly entered alliances with evil human mages and mind flayers of the Underdark. However, the king was careful to devoutly obey the demands of his shamans so he couldn't be accused of turning from the gods to embrace the magic of outsiders.
For the next 250 years, a long line of orc monarchs ruled the Citadel, pillaging their neighbors and providing a relative safe haven for the orc kin of the Savage Frontier. In turn each king paid some sort of tribute to the orc kings of the Ice Mountains. However, as the Citadel stabilized and became a power in its own right, such fealty became little more than an exchange of gifts and kept promises of continued trade relations.
The Fall of the Citadel of Many Arrows
The current Obould Many-Arrows is descended from the first orc to hold that name and seize the Citadel of Many Arrows. From a young age, the adepts of the Citadel noted Obould was fated for a great destiny among his people. Smarter and more intuitive than most of his kind, he completed quests for his father (and king) and for his tribe's clerics before slaying his father and taking control of his tribe. He faced challengers without suffering injuries amounting to more than some attractive scarring. Skilled in the arts of war and capable of fierce rages, Obould became a fearsome opponent in battle. Obould now has four wives (and at least one mistress, the assassin Numath the Serpent) and eight sons, including his heir Urlgen Threefist, the ambitious Scrauth, the cleric Brymoel, and the ferocious Ugreth. He expects the time will come soon enough when he must fight his upstart children to defend his throne, and he is ready for it.
There you have it.
-- George Krashos
I wonder if, pulling together Tom's article and Beast's concept of "revisionist" history, whether Obould I was the orc who conquered Citadel Felbarr in 1104, and the Obould we're used to (in the 1370s) is the eleventh in the line of Obould I (making him technically Obould XI)--a range of breeding you could easily have in 250 years. But Obould XI emerged as such a powerful force that orcs revised him in their oral history to Obould I (basically crediting him for the original conquest of Citadel Felbarr, even if that's impossible). Remember, Obould worked quite hard to make himself seem like a god, and claiming that great historical victory for himself might have been part of that.
So Obould XI (called Obould I) rules at Many-Arrows' founding. His son Urlgen (either the second son to bear that name or his original son resurrected after Innovindil killed him in the Lone Drow) takes over in 1409 as Obould X/XII. His line continues bloodily for 5 more Oboulds between 1410 and 1460 (quite reasonable, I think) before the kingdom finally "stabilizes" with Obould VI/XVI in 1472. This king is technically Obould XVI, but could easily be called Obould VI if you're counting from the original King Obould of Many-Arrows as Obould I. The current king of Many-Arrows is Obould XVII, or Obould VII if you count the original as Obould I.
Another thought comes to mind: Perhaps "Obould" is a title rather than a name, perhaps meaning "great orc." Based on the warrior psychology of orcs, it's possible that when they say "king," they don't mean the same thing as humans would. It means "great orc" and is based on the original Obould who conquered Citadel Felbarr. 1370s Obould took this name because of the power it would instill--any orc who heard the name applied to him would know immediately what that meant. And the name, of course, carries over to his heirs and progeny, as well as any upstart who wishes to challenge the status quo of Many-Arrows. Basically, 1370s Obould started the ball rolling with using the name.
This concept of "Obould" being a title that means "great hero" also fits very much in with the 1370s Obould being a deity, one which might be a sort of amalgam of lots of orc heroes.
Food for thought.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader
USA
2717 Posts |
Posted - 27 Mar 2012 : 17:09:14
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"Obould" as "Ceasar", then?
With all the potential for confusion that re-used title brings, such as mistaking one Ceasar's accomplishments for those of another Ceasar? |
Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver). |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 27 Mar 2012 : 17:15:19
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quote:
Originally posted by BEAST
quote:
Originally posted by Therise
Or if Oubold-the-Exarch remained bizarrely peaceful for the rest of his life including the spellplague, why didn't his immediate successor take over after Obould's death and launch even a small war against someone to gain additional territory or resources?
Instead, we have a series of apparently peaceful throne successions. No apparent challenges to the throne from brothers, cousins, or any usurpers outside the Obould lineage. Cormyr has more court intrigue and backstabbing in a single year.
There appears to be some confusion on this in the books.
In The Lone Drow, the elf Innovindil killed Obould's son Urlgen. This was a huge disappointment to Obould.
In the Prelude to The Orc King, we're told that Drizzt fought with Obould II in the great war of the Year of Solitary Cloister (1408 DR).
But in Gauntlgrym, we're told that as of 1409 DR, Obould I had died of old age, and Bruenor had handled the recent transition in power to Obould II, who was also known as Urlgen, with great tact and diplomacy.
What?!
It's possible that Obould I may have had another son and named him Urlgen (a second Urlgen--not to be confused with Urlgen the Second or Urlgen II ); and in Obould I's old age, he may have handed over the throne to this son, and that son may have led some minor battle, in which he fought with Drizzt.
I've posted about this above, but generally, here's a more organized timeline as I see it:
Obould I (born 1080s, ruled 1104): The Conqueror of Citadel Felbarr. This event is a great historical moment for the orcs of Faerun (like the Battle of Hastings for the British, Gettysburg for the U.S., or Normandy for the Allies in WWII).
Obould XI (born 1330s, ruled 1360s-1409): The tenth heir of the original Obould, he takes his famous ancestor's name, claiming to *be* the original Obould in order to have that cachet of power. He carves out the Kingdom of Many-Arrows. Obould I/XI rules until his death from extreme old age (an orc in his 70s-80s is very old).
Urlgen/Obould II/XII (born 1350s, ruled 1409 - unknown): Obould's first son Urlgen is killed in The Lone Drow by Innovindil. He is either resurrected after that event (perhaps by a shaman seeking to curry favor with King Obould) or the Urlgen that inherits the throne is a second son, who Obould renamed Urlgen. Either way, there is an uprising/civil war of discontented orcs who want to seize Many-Arrows from the doddering Obould I in 1408, during which Urlgen fights with Drizzt. (At his side or against him, I'm not sure--I don't have my book with me. Probably it's both.) Urlgen wins the war and inherits his father's crown--Bruenor superises the transfer of power. When Obould I passes away, pleased that his son has finally proved himself worthy, Urlgen is invested as "Obould II," cementing the lineage in the lower numbers (I-VII) rather than the teens (XI-XVII).
The text noted above calls him "Obould II" in the historical reference to 1408, but that's not really that unexpected--when we talk about Pope Benedict's past, for instance, we don't necessarily use his old name. So when Drizzt thinks about his battles at Urlgen's side, no doubt he thinks of him as Obould II, because that's who he was when he became king.
War of the Oboulds III-V (sometime between 1410-1460): Obould II ruled for some time, but he was not his father. He was eventually killed in battle or overthrown, and there followed a period of intense strife as kings came and went--three of them were of the line of Obould (III, IV, and V), though they may not have been blood relatives, and there might have been would-be kings that did NOT claim the title of Obould at all. When the dust settled in 1460, Obould VI took the crown, and he was able to stabilize the kingdom once more.
Obould VI/XVI (ruled 1460-1478): A wise king, hailed by many as a rightful heir to the intelligent and capable Obould I/XI. He stabilized the kingdom handily and led Many-Arrows forward in peace for many years. Violent elements were brewing, however, and ultimately Obould VI/XVI was slain/poisoned/overthrown as recently as 1478. A brief war ensued, through which Obould VI's son emerged victorious to claim his father's throne, invested as Obould VII.
Obould VII/XVII (ruled 1479-present): A young and largely untested king, Obould VII may be the first in a new breed of orc kings that will turn Many-Arrows back to the way of the axe and use its great power to lash out against his neighbors, or he might prove just as wise and just as his father. Only time will tell. What is known is that he has largely sealed off the barriers of Many-Arrows, which many fear is brewing like a simmering pot.
Sages refer to this king technically as Obould XVII (his listed name in the FRCG), but orcs of Many-Arrows call him Obould VII, tracing his lineage back to their founder, who they call Obould I (though he was technically Obould XI).
quote:
But why would this son have survived? Minor or great, shouldn't Drizzt have ended this fool?
That depends, I guess, on whether Urlgen fought at Drizzt's side or against him. This is a story RAS would have to tell, and he would do so in cool, stirring fashion as always. 
quote:
And if he somehow survived, could his ascension and continued reign have ever been legitimately called a smooth transition in power?
I think once this war was fought and ended, Urlgen had reconquered Many-Arrows for his father Obould I, and then it could be a smooth transition of power.
I do like the other musings, guys! Some great work here.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
Edited by - Erik Scott de Bie on 27 Mar 2012 17:17:02 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36877 Posts |
Posted - 27 Mar 2012 : 17:56:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy Grenemyer
"Obould" as "Ceasar", then?
With all the potential for confusion that re-used title brings, such as mistaking one Ceasar's accomplishments for those of another Ceasar?
Imagine going into an eatery in the Realms and ordering Obould salad... |
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Brian R. James
Forgotten Realms Game Designer
USA
1098 Posts |
Posted - 27 Mar 2012 : 18:22:04
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| This looks very well thought out Erik, and is exactly the sort of work I like to see take place when continuity issues arise in Realmslore. Good job. |
Brian R. James - Freelance Game Designer
Follow me on Twitter @brianrjames |
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Artemas Entreri
Great Reader
USA
3131 Posts |
Posted - 27 Mar 2012 : 18:24:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy Grenemyer
"Obould" as "Ceasar", then?
With all the potential for confusion that re-used title brings, such as mistaking one Ceasar's accomplishments for those of another Ceasar?
Imagine going into an eatery in the Realms and ordering Obould salad...
I'm almost afraid to ask what kind of toppings that comes with... |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 27 Mar 2012 : 19:09:41
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| Low-fat Obould dressing and Obould cocktails, of course. |
[/Ayrik] |
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BEAST
Master of Realmslore
USA
1714 Posts |
Posted - 27 Mar 2012 : 20:38:51
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quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
But Obould XI emerged as such a powerful force that orcs revised him in their oral history to Obould I (basically crediting him for the original conquest of Citadel Felbarr, even if that's impossible).
I don't see why that wouldn't work. The shamans of Obould (3E, "The Hunter's Blades Trilogy") repeatedly said that "Obould is Gruumsh; Gruumsh is Obould!" So clearly his propagandists weren't above warping literal truth for dramatic effect. If Obould XI could be Gruumsh, then certainly he could also be lowly Obould I! 
quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
Obould XI (born 1330s, ruled 1360s-1409): The tenth heir of the original Obould, he takes his famous ancestor's name, claiming to *be* the original Obould in order to have that cachet of power. He carves out the Kingdom of Many-Arrows. Obould I/XI rules until his death from extreme old age (an orc in his 70s-80s is very old).
I don't know if this helps, but maybe we could use the nomenclature Obould XI ("I"), demonstrating that his actual number was XI, while his colloquial number was "I"?
Or Obould "I"/XI?
Obould XI/"I"?
quote:
Urlgen/Obould II/XII (born 1350s, ruled 1409 - unknown): Obould's first son Urlgen is killed in The Lone Drow by Innovindil. He is either resurrected after that event (perhaps by a shaman seeking to curry favor with King Obould) or the Urlgen that inherits the throne is a second son, who Obould renamed Urlgen.
I can maybe/kinda/sorta understand why Obould XI/"I" would re-use the name "Urlgen" for a subsequent son, to sort of erase or over-write the memory of the first, failed Urlgen. It was jarring to me when I first read about this name being re-used in Gauntlgrym, without any explanation to us readers. But hey, maybe Obie was a sentimental sort. I can run with that!
But orc resurrection? Hmm, I don't know how I feel about that. Urlgen failed miserably, both as a general, and as an individual warrior. No matter how sentimental Obie might've been, would an orc king be the type to give somebody else a fantastic second chance through resurrection like this? Or would he consider Urlgen to have gotten just what he deserved, and left him dead?
If Obie was sentimental enough to have re-used the name, I think it would've been for a new beginning, rather than to bring back a failure--especially a failure who seemed to subscribe to the outmoded, traditional orc approach of chaotic conquest, when he was still alive. Why would he want to bring back an evil orc, if Obie was truly reformed?
OTOH, if Obie was secretly still evil (<- *THIS!*), and just biding his time for some ambitious plan to whack the North in the future, why would he want to bring back such an incompetent son to take over his throne some day?
I lean away from resurrection and toward a new son, altogether.
In fact, I lean toward two new sons (see below).
quote:
Either way, there is an uprising/civil war of discontented orcs who want to seize Many-Arrows from the doddering Obould I in 1408, during which Urlgen fights with Drizzt. (At his side or against him, I'm not sure--I don't have my book with me. Probably it's both.) Urlgen wins the war and inherits his father's crown--Bruenor superises the transfer of power. When Obould I passes away, pleased that his son has finally proved himself worthy, Urlgen is invested as "Obould II," cementing the lineage in the lower numbers (I-VII) rather than the teens (XI-XVII).
The text noted above calls him "Obould II" in the historical reference to 1408, but that's not really that unexpected--when we talk about Pope Benedict's past, for instance, we don't necessarily use his old name. So when Drizzt thinks about his battles at Urlgen's side, no doubt he thinks of him as Obould II, because that's who he was when he became king.
The Orc King definitely says that Drizzt fought "against Obould II in the great war in the Year of the Solitary Cloister" (italics added; TOK, Pre.).
Now, if Drizzt fought against this "Obould II" in 1408 DR, then why would Bruenor have turned right around and nonchalantly approved of his ascension to the throne? That buzzard would've been so persona-non-grata to King Bruenor! There would be no second treaty or continuation of the existing treaty with another warlord orc named Obould. If another representative of the Kingdom of Many-Arrows had turned against the North, Bruenor would've considered that Treaty so thoroughly broken as for all Hells to break loose--he would never have kissed and made up, again. I don't care how we spin it; that would never have happened. (Just look at what happened between 1472 & 1478 DR, with the League of Luruar, Obould XVI/"VI", and Obould XVII/"VII" {see below}.)
Yes, Bruenor fought against Obould "I" in 1371 DR in "THBT"; and then turned right around and allied with him in TOK in 1372 DR--because Obie stopped fighting against the North, and even helped to stop the upstart Grguch. Obie had appeared to warrant an alliance through his actions--even if this was only a false public front, for the time being (*THIS*).
I don't see Bruenor allying with another brutish Obould. The Treaty would require a peaceable orc neighbor.
Gaunt. tells us that Drizzt served with blade and diplomacy in the Third Orc War, whereas Bruenor is only said to have fought in two wars that threatened all of the Silver Marches (Gaunt., P1:C2). So why wouldn't Bruenor have joined in the fight?
Perhaps there was a son of Obould "I" who indeed wanted to lead the Kingdom of Many-Arrows to aggressive victory over the rest of the North. Perhaps he was a rebellious, traditionalist upstart, opposed to the will and status quo of his father. Or perhaps he was secretly being propped up by his father (*THIS*).
Either way, Obould "I" could not and would not have openly endorsed this son; there was a Treaty to maintain, and all the practical benefits (freedom from war, food, trade, etc.) that it provided to consider. Obie would've had to have distanced himself from this son, whether genuinely, or disingenuinely.
(I am recalling Robert-the-Bruce's father from Braveheart, secretly plucking the strings from the sidelines...)
So this violent son, self-promoted as a would-be "Obould II", takes it on himself to defy the Treaty and act the typical orc.
What's the rest of the North to do? Do they go to outright war against the entire Kindom of Many-Arrows? Or do they try to minimalize the threat, while upholding the sacred idea of the Treaty?
I see Bruenor being asked to sit this one out, while Drizzt leads a smaller band to confront this apparent upstart. That would allow Bruenor to be seen as honoring the Treaty, as well as Obie "I" being seen as sticking to the agreement, while the threat undermining the Treaty was dispatched. This would also allow Drizzt to be credited with providing both the blade and diplomacy in the Third Orc War, per Gaunt.. He could whack the upstart, while talking the bigger powers into staying out of it. In this manner, the Third Orc War would've been even smaller than the presumed Second Orc War, which I guess was the one against Grguch in TOK.
Although, I don't know if this would allow the Third Orc War to exactly qualify as "the great war" in 1408 DR. Perhaps it was "great" not because of the numbers of dead, but because of its political consequences: upholding the peace, and the Treaty, and Obould's publicly-avowed vision. It would've done so even more dramatically than the Second Orc War against Grguch had done, for that former war was only against an unrelated half-orc warlord, while this one would've been against one of the sons of a co-signer of the Treaty, himself.
So, with would-be "Obould II" now out of the way, Obould "I" would then be free to tap another, different son to take the throne. Enter the second son named "Urlgen". He could assume the "Obould" name, without the taint of having ever warred against the League of the Silver Marches. He could ascend to the throne, with peace and diplomacy and tact and all that nice stuff, and Bruenor could ally with him with minimal tension, per Gaunt.. He could practically stroll in and be the hero, of sorts. ("Hey, at least I'm not as bad as that guy!") It's as if he had been set up for success, groomed to perpetuate Obould "I"'s carefully scripted campaign of would-be peace and unity.
And because Obould "I" had been seen as not backing his apparently upstart son, but rather as upholding the Treaty and backing his politically-correct one, the Kingdom of Many-Arrows would be allowed to maintain its embassy within Mithral Hall, per Gaunt..
The Kingdom of Many-Arrows would end up being even more tightly aligned with the League of the Silver Marches than ever before.
quote:
War of the Oboulds III-V (sometime between 1410-1460): Obould II ruled for some time, but he was not his father. He was eventually killed in battle or overthrown, and there followed a period of intense strife as kings came and went--three of them were of the line of Obould (III, IV, and V), though they may not have been blood relatives, and there might have been would-be kings that did NOT claim the title of Obould at all. When the dust settled in 1460, Obould VI took the crown, and he was able to stabilize the kingdom once more.
To this, I would add a blurb about the Kingdom having been split for a decade, between 1450 and 1460 DR (FRCG {4E}, p149: "Many-Arrows Lore").
quote:
Obould VI/XVI (ruled 1460-1478): A wise king, hailed by many as a rightful heir to the intelligent and capable Obould I/XI. He stabilized the kingdom handily and led Many-Arrows forward in peace for many years. Violent elements were brewing, however, and ultimately Obould VI/XVI was slain/poisoned/overthrown as recently as 1478. A brief war ensued, through which Obould VI's son emerged victorious to claim his father's throne, invested as Obould VII.
Since orc-human/dwarf/elf/etc. racial tensions continued, despite the Obouldan vision, Obould "VI"'s backing of an orc-human wedding in ~1472 DR (TOK) may have been the straw that broke the camel's back. The racist vengeance-mongers may have been outraged enough to take action.
CCC-minded folk (on the non-orc side) may have been so offended by the intermarriage that they may have assassinated the orc female. That, in turn, may have been enough to have sparked some of the orcs of the Kingdom of Many-Arrows to strike back, and to back a like-minded leader as their king.
I have theorized that their may have been an orcish version of Casin Cu Calas, spreading mischief across the region in the name of avenging past wrongs against orcdom, much to the chagrin, embarrassment, and shame of would-be peaceable Oboulds. Maybe this organization finally won a convert in their next king?
The dwarves fell out of the League of Luruar, as well.
quote:
Obould VII/XVII (ruled 1479-present): A young and largely untested king, Obould VII may be the first in a new breed of orc kings that will turn Many-Arrows back to the way of the axe and use its great power to lash out against his neighbors, or he might prove just as wise and just as his father. Only time will tell. What is known is that he has largely sealed off the barriers of Many-Arrows, which many fear is brewing like a simmering pot.
I think that something terrible and concrete must've already happened with the rise of Obould XVII/"VII", because, as of 1478 DR, the FRCG (4E) pronounces the orcs of Many-Arrows as "enemies" of Luruar (p146), and "bitter enemies" of the humans and dwarves of the North (p149); the dwarves have left the League of Luruar; and the League is now comprised of only three settlements (vs. the original nine). Something really bad must've gone down between ~1472 DR (TOK, Pre.) and 1478 DR (FRCG). |
"'You don't know my history,' he said dryly."
--Drizzt Do'Urden (The Pirate King, Part 1: Chapter 2)
<"Comprehensive Chronology of R.A. Salvatore Forgotten Realms Works"> |
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BEAST
Master of Realmslore
USA
1714 Posts |
Posted - 27 Mar 2012 : 20:56:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Imagine going into an eatery in the Realms and ordering Obould salad...
You've got the green skin for the lettuce, the red irises for the tomatoes, the jaundiced yellowish sclera for the dressing, and the crunch of bones for the croutons... |
"'You don't know my history,' he said dryly."
--Drizzt Do'Urden (The Pirate King, Part 1: Chapter 2)
<"Comprehensive Chronology of R.A. Salvatore Forgotten Realms Works"> |
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Icelander
Master of Realmslore
1864 Posts |
Posted - 27 Mar 2012 : 21:08:14
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quote:
Originally posted by BEAST
I don't see why that wouldn't work. The shamans of Obould (3E, "The Hunter's Blades Trilogy") repeatedly said that "Obould is Gruumsh; Gruumsh is Obould!" So clearly his propagandists weren't above warping literal truth for dramatic effect. If Obould XI could be Gruumsh, then certainly he could also be lowly Obould I!
The shamans did call their ruler: "Obould-Who-Is-Gruumsh", which appeared to be some form of title or appelation, very similar to the way Ancient Egyptian and Mesapotamian regnant* names would incorporate deific names.
I did not get the feeling that this implied that a statement that directly identified Obould as equal with He-Who-Watches would not have been heretical. Saying 'Gruumsh is Obould' would, the way I interpreted the shamans in the book, have been the foulest blashphemy. And although I realie that this is open to dispute, so would saying 'Obould is Gruumsh'.
While uttered as part of a title, as Obould-Who-Is-Gruumsh, it does not necessarily refer to anything other than Obould having part of Gruumsh's divine essence in him. It is no more blasphemous than using the name Jesus for a Catholic or Hamilcar for a Phoenican.
A direct statement, not poetic, figurative or part of a formal title, to the nature that Obould truly was the deity in the flesh and that there was no deity beyond that, would be the kind of thing that religious wars have started over in the past.
I always saw the shaman's use of 'Obould-Who-Is-Gruumsh' as indicating that the orcs believed that Obould partook of the One-Eyed God's divine mantle by the favour of the deity, but not that Obould himself was wholly divine or that Gruumsh did not exist outside Obould.
*And others. |
Za uspiekh nashevo beznadiozhnovo diela!
Forgotten Realms fans, please sign a petition to re-release the FR Interactive Atlas
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BEAST
Master of Realmslore
USA
1714 Posts |
Posted - 27 Mar 2012 : 22:38:21
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Aye, Icelander.
But while Obould XI/"I" and his shamans may have consciously remembered that, that doesn't mean that they always maintained strict distinctions when dealing with the common orc troops.
And casual use of the lingo (i.e., "bending the truth"?) might eventually lead to equating Obould XI with Obould I.
As an average orc, who's gonna correct the technicality? |
"'You don't know my history,' he said dryly."
--Drizzt Do'Urden (The Pirate King, Part 1: Chapter 2)
<"Comprehensive Chronology of R.A. Salvatore Forgotten Realms Works"> |
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Icelander
Master of Realmslore
1864 Posts |
Posted - 27 Mar 2012 : 22:56:22
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quote:
Originally posted by BEAST
Aye, Icelander.
But while Obould XI/"I" and his shamans may have consciously remembered that, that doesn't mean that they always maintained strict distinctions when dealing with the common orc troops.
And casual use of the lingo (i.e., "bending the truth"?) might eventually lead to equating Obould XI with Obould I.
As an average orc, who's gonna correct the technicality?
Average orcs may not speak the name 'Gruumsh' at all, because that would be a terrible blasphemy. Using that name is reserved for shamans and ordinary orcs use one of the many titles or pseudonyms for Gruumsh, like He-Who-Watches.
I do agree, however, that the vast majority of common orcs call their ruler 'Obould', with no number at all, and that it has become a title as well as a name. |
Za uspiekh nashevo beznadiozhnovo diela!
Forgotten Realms fans, please sign a petition to re-release the FR Interactive Atlas
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Edited by - Icelander on 27 Mar 2012 22:57:24 |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 27 Mar 2012 : 22:57:52
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I'm sure there are precedents in our own real world human history where Kings or Emperors miscounted some Roman numerals appended to their names and titles. Higher numbers always enhance the sense of legitimate authenticity.
If entire nations full of illiterate humans could be fooled (or at least rendered complacent) this way, then fooling a bunch of orcs must be child's play. Orcs are noted for having short (and often truncated) lifespans, shorter attention spans, and (reluctantly) obeying when bullied by those who are stronger. If you've already got an advantage over orcs in terms of strength then outsmarting or distracting them isn't hard at all.
I realize the above "canon" is offered only on a suggestive basis, with the intent of providing a plausible starting point. The one detail which I find questionable is Obould carefully observing that his actions are seen as devout in accordance with the omens of his shamans; this seems somewhat less than likely, given the constant invisible turmoil seeting within orc populations about how Many Arrows has turned away from the glory of Gruumsh. This also assumes none of the shamans speaks against Obould or his policies; Orc shamans strike me as cunning enough to make alliances with powerful chieftains, yet also wise and ambitious enough to make sure their own power is not diluted by a chieftain who grows too strong and popular. They understand well that the way to wield power in this macho society is to support promising candidates who stand somewhere in the middle of the leadership hierarchy, then enjoying their support after assisting them in removing the old leaders from the top.
Also a question: why hasn't (indeed, why doesn't) some local badass powerful dragon or lich overthrow an Obould and subjugate Many Arrows for his own evil purposes? Examples already exist of orc tribes being dominated by a dragon, or orc hoards being gathered by a lich, orcs are the traditional first choice to use as evil shock troops. |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 27 Mar 2012 23:14:17 |
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BEAST
Master of Realmslore
USA
1714 Posts |
Posted - 28 Mar 2012 : 01:53:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
I realize the above "canon" is offered only on a suggestive basis, with the intent of providing a plausible starting point. The one detail which I find questionable is Obould carefully observing that his actions are seen as devout in accordance with the omens of his shamans; this seems somewhat less than likely, given the constant invisible turmoil seeting within orc populations about how Many Arrows has turned away from the glory of Gruumsh.
I think that Obould started out by taking great pains to appease his shamans that his intentions and actions were properly pious and obedient towards the will of Gruumsh.
But over time, he became more politically adept and conniving, and found ways to only give the appearance of appeasing those shamans. He has to rationalize some of his decisions to his shamans, gradually getting them to embrace his plans as fitting and proper. There are also moments in "The Hunter's Blades Trilogy" were he silently ridicules the shamans' antics, but cynically remains resolved to use them to his benefit, anyway.
And in The Orc King, we're shown that those shamans are just as adept at scheming and appeasing as he.
quote:
This also assumes none of the shamans speaks against Obould or his policies; Orc shamans strike me as cunning enough to make alliances with powerful chieftains, yet also wise and ambitious enough to make sure their own power is not diluted by a chieftain who grows too strong and popular. They understand well that the way to wield power in this macho society is to support promising candidates who stand somewhere in the middle of the leadership hierarchy, then enjoying their support after assisting them in removing the old leaders from the top.
That's exactly what the shamans tried to do in The Orc King: they conspired against Obould by seeking out and propping up the orc-ogre Chieftain Grguch as a rival.
And although that particular would-be coup failed, we're still told in the Prelude to TOK that various hardliner shamans continued to question the lifestyle that Obould brought to the orcs of Many-Arrows right on through ~1472 DR.
They were probably a major contributor to the periodic civil wars within the Kingdom during the 1400s.
quote:
Also a question: why hasn't (indeed, why doesn't) some local badass powerful dragon or lich overthrow an Obould and subjugate Many Arrows for his own evil purposes? Examples already exist of orc tribes being dominated by a dragon, or orc hoards being gathered by a lich, orcs are the traditional first choice to use as evil shock troops.
Perhaps some have tried, only to be repelled by the goodly-seeming Oboulds and their Silver Marches allies.
Also consider that an Obould-led Kingdom is not exactly your typical easily-manipulated orc tribe. |
"'You don't know my history,' he said dryly."
--Drizzt Do'Urden (The Pirate King, Part 1: Chapter 2)
<"Comprehensive Chronology of R.A. Salvatore Forgotten Realms Works"> |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 28 Mar 2012 : 04:23:27
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Here are some thoughts about Obould II being THE Urlgen or just AN Urlgen:
It's feasible that Urlgen could be resurrected with the express purpose of using him against Obould. If the shamans raised him (either through their own power or through an alliance with darker powers interested in the region), they could pretty much literally hold his life over his head. As for him coming back, it might be taken as a sign from Gruumsh to give Urlgen another chance to prove himself.
Or, y'know, Urlgen/Obould II could just be any of a number of sons borne to Obould by any of his multiple wives. As you do.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36877 Posts |
Posted - 28 Mar 2012 : 05:39:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
Or, y'know, Urlgen/Obould II could just be any of a number of sons borne to Obould by any of his multiple wives. As you do.
Cheers
Wow! He's not only a salad, Obould is George Foreman! He's named all of his sons Urlgen! |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 28 Mar 2012 : 15:47:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
Or, y'know, Urlgen/Obould II could just be any of a number of sons borne to Obould by any of his multiple wives. As you do.
Cheers
Wow! He's not only a salad, Obould is George Foreman! He's named all of his sons Urlgen!
Hey, when you like a name . . .
That's Obould, grilled to perfection.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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BEAST
Master of Realmslore
USA
1714 Posts |
Posted - 28 Mar 2012 : 18:01:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Wow! He's not only a salad, Obould is George Foreman! He's named all of his sons Urlgen!
So, my real name is Steven, and my little brother's name is Craig. We both work together. One of the office ladies left a note for the "Craig brothers" the other day.
"Craig" is not our last name. We are not the Craig brothers.
So I went up to her the next day and said, "Hi, I don't think we've met yet; my name's Steven Craig, and this is my brother, Craig Craig--we're the Craig brothers!" |
"'You don't know my history,' he said dryly."
--Drizzt Do'Urden (The Pirate King, Part 1: Chapter 2)
<"Comprehensive Chronology of R.A. Salvatore Forgotten Realms Works"> |
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How does an orc kingdom, like Many Arrows exist?
