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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
8035 Posts |
 Posted - 18 Feb 2011 : 22:02:11
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A common scifi time travel storyline assumes that time travel itself is quite improbable; time travellers have to go back in time to interfere with "baseline" history and ensure that their time travel is/was invented.
Escalating "butterfly" or "snowball" effect is just a popular theory. Another is the self-consistent "river of time" analogy. We can't time travel (in the fictional sense) so no logical interpretation is entirely unreasonable.
Your adaptation is reasonable, Markus, though I wouldn't prefer it in my gaming. Introducing time travel paradoxes, manipulations, and "what-if/might-have-been" guessing just seems to add needless complexity. Osric's Razor, keep the game setting simple. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36968 Posts |
Posted - 18 Feb 2011 : 23:12:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
When you tinker with time, You wind up with very unpredictable results (the Butterfly Effect), as Lathander found out when he tried to make a change and wound-up splitting Tyche in half (which I'm not sure is what he actually meant to do).
Quibble: Tyche was split by Selūne, during the Dawn Cataclysm -- but nothing other than timing indicates that the DC and what happened to Tyche are related.
Lathander feels responsible for what happened to Tyche because she and he fought, she stormed off, saw a rose that she thought was from him, and became corrupted by it (it was sent by Moander). |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2011 : 00:04:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Arik
A common scifi time travel storyline assumes that time travel itself is quite improbable; time travellers have to go back in time to interfere with "baseline" history and ensure that their time travel is/was invented.
Escalating "butterfly" or "snowball" effect is just a popular theory. Another is the self-consistent "river of time" analogy. We can't time travel (in the fictional sense) so no logical interpretation is entirely unreasonable.
Your adaptation is reasonable, Markus, though I wouldn't prefer it in my gaming. Introducing time travel paradoxes, manipulations, and "what-if/might-have-been" guessing just seems to add needless complexity. Osric's Razor, keep the game setting simple.
Indeed. Tracy Hickman proved the simplest course for the time-continuum to follow in an established RPG world like DRAGONLANCE or the FORGOTTEN REALMS, with detailed examinations in both the Annotated Chronicles/Legends volumes, and Dragons of a Vanished Moon. |
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crazedventurers
Master of Realmslore
United Kingdom
1073 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2011 : 02:28:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
So its not so much a Bill & Ted's Excellent Adventure or Back to the Future hokey model we are working with (which is probably why so many people hate it), but rather a path of prophesy, which is an accepted fantasy Trope.
(My bolding above)
They do? really? Yes not knowing all the 'facts' is somewhat frustrating at times but I don't quite see where everyone 'hates' the answer that is "it can't/wont be answered with a definitive date in lore". I certainly don't hate not knowing, and reading through this thread not many others seem to hold that view either?
Being old   I remember this discussion on the Realms-List a long time ago and I seem to recall the tripartite deity was a welcome addition to Realms Lore and a wonderful fix for explaining at least partly the Dawn Cataclysm and inconsisent references between Ed's home game and the published Realms (The Temple of Tyche in Shadowdale being one of them). Sometimes proofreading misses out on one or two minor things and other people (Eric Boyd in this case) try to fix them/explain them with an interesting bit of made up lore.
I like the unknown happenings of the Dawn Cataclysm and I especially like the simplicity of Eric's tripartite sun deity (Dawn, Noon and Dusk) and as a DM the masses of game play options with the tripartite deity (sun cults, heretical prophecies, hidden temples, unorthodox/orthodox litany, inter-faith intolerance etc). It is a goldmine of potential hooks for the game.
What I am not a fan of is the rapid ascendance of Amaunator because a priest cast a second sun spell over Elversult and its seems that everyone went "All hail the new sun god" seemingly forgetting Lathander rather quickly   . This does not strike me as a clever or sophisticated way get that specific god into the new edition of the Realms.
Cheers
Damian |
So saith Ed. I've never said he was sane, have I?
Gods, all this writing and he's running a constant fantasy version of Coronation Street in his head, too. .
shudder,
love to all,
THO
Candlekeep Forum 7 May 2005 |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
8035 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2011 : 03:19:49
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| Actually, I kinda like Bill & Ted. But then again, I have some lowbrow movie favourites. Plus I'm an 80s child. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 20 Feb 2011 : 02:05:38
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I loved Bill & Ted as well. I also love Rocky Horror. That doesn't mean I would use either as a a basis for a fantasy/SciFy hypothesis.
The point is, we know the dawn cataclysm happened, and we also know part of it at least happened "outside of time", and we have Eric Boyd's lore-fix, while imperfect, helps to wash away the inconsistencies. In fact, the one really good thing about using time-paradoxes is that they are really pretty nifty at helping fix continuity-glitches. The new Star Trek is a prime example. Change one fact in the past (the death of Kirk's father), and we have a whole different setting (with familiar characters).
I had once explained away the anachronistic appearance of The Black Archer in a Realms story simply by saying it took place before the Sundering, which we know (canonically) "reached backwards and forwards in time". Ergo, A Black Archer was meant to exist, and although the timestream was changed, eventually a new one came to be. I thought that was pretty nifty line of reasoning (time corrects itself, according to The Chronomancer).
Of course, my Fey-musing with Quale and others made me realize that there are certain 'arch-types' which will always exist, and some being will eventually step-in to take the place of a missing one. Thus, my new reasoning is that Shevarash is just the latest 'Black Archer' to hold that post.
Look at it this way - now we can blame everything on Abeir. For instance, there were a lot of inconsistencies in the Double Diamond series (some revolving around Open Lord Piergeiron the Paladinson), and now we can just say that all happened on 'alternate Toril'. 
Jeeze... I've been watching too much Fringe... |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Lathander/Amaunator
