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Azuth
Senior Scribe
USA
404 Posts |
 Posted - 18 Jan 2011 : 04:36:11
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My suspicion would then lean toward the authors of the original Avatar Trilogy, given Ao appears in the prologue of book I. I suppose that while Ed is often juxtaposed with Elminster, he truly is Ao having created the Realms. I'd really be interested in his thoughts on Ao from an academic standpoint, as he can't comment on them from a professional one, I suspect. Did Ed create the concept of the Weave?
Azuth, the First Magister
Lord of All Spells
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Ao was not something Ed created. TSR come up with the concept of Ao and he was brought into the setting during the Time of Troubles -- through the 1e to 2e change over. As it stands, Ed has no idea on where TSR came up with the concept of Ao.
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Azuth, the First Magister
Lord of All Spells
The greatest expression of creativity is through Art.
Offense can never be given, only taken. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31772 Posts |
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Azuth
Senior Scribe
USA
404 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jan 2011 : 06:05:35
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Wow! Ed's posting on March 11, (2004!) really adds some perspective, and emphasizes the fact that WoTC really doesn't follow Ed's much-better musings and illuminations nearly often enough- to their own folly based on my readings.
What still remains a mystery to me is how most people can still use magic in Faerûn without the Weave? Perhaps I should rephrase: how long-lived beings and items bound to and trained through magic via the Weave could continue to function. Pardon the terrible analogy, but if a car that runs on fossil fuels no longer has fossil fuels, it cannot just "learn" to run on alternate forms of energy.
I always found the Shadow Weave an intriguing concept, but I can't find any answers as to its fate after the Spell Plague. I know that Shar was one of those responsible for the murder of Mystra, so it makes sense that the Shadow Weave could exist, but as I understand it (verily, not very well at all) switching from the Weave to the Shadow Weave causes madness of some sort. I guess I'll chalk that up as another question for Ed. Thanks to The Sage for the pointer. So Saeth Ed has a lot through which to read, but I am working on it!
Azuth, the First Magister
Lord of All Spells
quote:
Originally said by Ed
If Mystra (and Shar) lose all of their powers, are the Weave and Anti-Weave destroyed/collapsed/left untended? In other words, do spells still work for anyone? Is wild magic raging chaotic and uncontrolled across the world, beyond the control or influence of anyone? Would creatures with innate magic die in agony, burned out or torn apart from within? Would any being with spells memorized at the time suffer the same fate, or just go insane? Or would they, too, randomly gain initially-uncontrolled (and perhaps temporary) "superpowers"?…
What I personally would do, if that happened, was keep the Weave operating and Mystra "alive and functioning," transform her Chosen into killers intent on eliminating all demigods (if necessary, by manipulating demigods into small cabals and alliances and driving them to make war on each other), strip priests of all spells and add a slowly-increasing-chances wild magic element to all spells cast (except discharges of simple magic effects ["simple" being fireballs or lightning bolts, whereas mind-reading, identification, mending, or suchlike would be deemed "complex"] stored in items, and with the Chosen of Mystra and the demigods having a smaller tendency to succumb to wild magic), and have creatures of magical natures (liches and so on) start to quickly decay (and therefore become desperate). Portals (to other worlds and planes, NOT those just linking places in Faerun to other places in Faerun) would become areas of magical stability as well as escape routes from the Realms, beings with psionic powers would acquire growing influence and importance as magic crashed and burned, and [b[Mystra would put all of her remaining strength and power into holding the Weave together[/b] [emphasis mine] (so castles held up by magic would start to fall, magic items not deemed artifacts would slowly lose their efficacy, and so on).
Bear in mind that you'd be changing the Realms markedly, because the fangs and claws of big monsters, and the number of swords a commander can bring into battle, would rise to rule in a way magic had hitherto balanced against.
The end result, of course, would depend on what happened, in the longer run, to the demigods and the Weave. I'd expect they'd tame their powers to become new lesser gods, resident in Toril, and the Weave would eventually stabilize, but one thing is for darned sure: for the common man or even for the intrepid adventurer, it would NOT be a fun time to live through.
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Azuth, the First Magister
Lord of All Spells
The greatest expression of creativity is through Art.
Offense can never be given, only taken. |
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Veritas
Learned Scribe
209 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jan 2011 : 19:32:14
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Richard Baker stating that Ao is being ignored would fall under the “Publisher fiat” blocking Ao. Other than that we have no explanation for his taking a backseat. It was hinted above that perhaps he was unable to intervene (as opposed to choosing not to) which raises the question as to what could possibly be powerful enough (other than Publisher fiat) to prevent Ao from doing anything he wanted. The only suspect we currently have is Ao’s obscure master whose two or three line appearance at the end of Waterdeep has long been considered to be a representation of the Dungeon Master or the Publisher.
It should be noted that our Realms are not and have not been entirely Ed’s Realms for a long time. As far as I know, Ed’s Realms still predate the Time of Trouble. No Midnight. No Cyric. No Kelemvor. No Ao.
However Ao is a part of the Realms we have and has been since the ToT. Ao even makes an appearance in Ed’s own Shadows of the Avatar Trilogy sending Elminster on a slay and fetch quest.
Writing him out is also a tricky proposition in that he stands for a power that is above and outside the divine ranking system. There are at least three epic destinies in the 4th edition which account for characters becoming more than divine. (Immanence, Parable, and Demiurge all spring immediately to mind). Therefore the concept of overpower like beings is now enshrined in the current edition, moreso than any other.
On a different note,
As interesting as I find Ed’s tantalizing theory that the unraveling of the weave was a deliberate plot by the gods of magic to put wizards in their place, a theory which respectfully I find unpalatable based on Mystra’s continuing ability to restrict magic to races and peoples without a wholesale cataclysm (e.g. preventing humans from accessing 10th level magic in 2e post Netheril in addition to driving her own champions insane. In addition it would at least presumably void the Cyric big imprisoned aspect of the story as well. So he’s not imprisoned then or was imprisoned for something else? It just doesn’t mesh (to me).
However presuming Mystra was truly dead and gone, what is to prevent another god from creating his own weave to access magic however he chose? It would go a long way to restoring divine power to what it was before the spellplague, as deities seem to be much weaker now. Did the deific abilities to warp reality (Alter Reality Salient Divine Ability) disappear with the weave? If so there would be little incentive for any deity not to hurry about imposing their own interface on the raw magic to restore those powers. Bane comes to mind as one of the deities who would be in the greatest hurry to make a weave of his own.
And hey, Azuth, aren’t you dead? ;)
Edit: Just had a sudden insight on who has been keeping Ao in check. It seems like they found a way to make Pun-Pun canon after all! |
Edited by - Veritas on 18 Jan 2011 23:01:12 |
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Azuth
Senior Scribe
USA
404 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jan 2011 : 00:03:47
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I so enjoy and look forward to reading this thread, although it's becoming close that it might be prudent to create a new thread of Musings on Ao. 
All good points, Veritas. Which is why I really need Ed's insight onto how he envisions the Weave to work. Karsus' attempt at divinity (if memory serves) caused Mystryl to sacrifice herself and the Weave failed momentarily: enter the demise of Netheril. She was (nearly) immediately reincarnated as the original Mystra, indicating that the Weave couldn't be destroyed. (Again, this is where I feel clarification from Ed would be helpful). What continues to confound me is that, purportedly, Cyric and Shar colluded to kill Mystra, thus bringing about the Spellplague. However, Midnight/Mystra was able to deny Cyric access to the Weave with a mere thought in Prince of Lies and although she relented, one would assume she could do so again in self-defense. More plainly put, it makes no sense for Shar or Cyric to kill Mystra as she is (again, as I understand it) a manifestation of the Weave. Even assuming she can die, wouldn't yet another manifestation of Mystra return? Perhaps what troubles me the most is Ao, yet again. I must assume that he upheld the Weave during the period within the Time of Troubles from when Helm killed Mystra (but did not collapse the Weave) and Midnight ascended atop Mount Waterdeep.
It certainly could be argued that, as God of Murder, Cyric's role is to try and murder other gods, but if that is true, then Bhaal was a lousy god of assassins. My reading is that a god's portfolio of duties pertains to the Realms, so Cyric's job is to promote murder in the Realms, not between gods.
I agree wholeheartedly that the post about Ao's superior alludes to the DM, although some religious people have said they felt it was a platitude to people that even Ao was beneath the Christian God (I am not among that group).
I've read mixed accounts, none "official" of which I am aware, that the Shadow Weave cannot exist without the Weave. Since Mystra/Mystryl's body was wrought from the Weave itself, it would seem in my mind's eye that no other god could take on its care without losing his or her other aspects of influence. In summary, I just don't believe you can have the Realms (with magic, anyway) and not have the Weave.
Not to fall on my staff, but the lesser powers' powers could easily be subsumed by a greater power, but the major powers seemed to generally focus on one area. Azuth may have been the first magister and thus awarded godhood over mages, but the role of "Lord of All Spells" could very easily be within the domain of Mystra/God(ess)of Magic. Thus, while Ao may not have been a part of Ed's original campaign, he almost seems, of necessity, to be a part of the 4E world for magic to exist.
I remain unhappy with many of WoTC's decisions since taking over D&D, although I did like their update to the brand for the third edition. On that note, could The Sage, THO, or anyone else share with me who designed the specatcular Candlekeep logo for this site? The lettering is superbly done.
I may be dead now, but I wasn't when I wrote this, and I may decide I'm not again in the future: you have been warned. 
May all your spells go off as intended,
Azuth, the First Magister
Lord of All Spells
quote:
Originally posted by Veritas
Richard Baker stating that Ao is being ignored would fall under the “Publisher fiat” blocking Ao. Other than that we have no explanation for his taking a backseat. It was hinted above that perhaps he was unable to intervene (as opposed to choosing not to) which raises the question as to what could possibly be powerful enough (other than Publisher fiat) to prevent Ao from doing anything he wanted. The only suspect we currently have is Ao’s obscure master whose two or three line appearance at the end of Waterdeep has long been considered to be a representation of the Dungeon Master or the Publisher.
It should be noted that our Realms are not and have not been entirely Ed’s Realms for a long time. As far as I know, Ed’s Realms still predate the Time of Trouble. No Midnight. No Cyric. No Kelemvor. No Ao.
However Ao is a part of the Realms we have and has been since the ToT. Ao even makes an appearance in Ed’s own Shadows of the Avatar Trilogy sending Elminster on a slay and fetch quest.
Writing him out is also a tricky proposition in that he stands for a power that is above and outside the divine ranking system. There are at least three epic destinies in the 4th edition which account for characters becoming more than divine. (Immanence, Parable, and Demiurge all spring immediately to mind). Therefore the concept of overpower like beings is now enshrined in the current edition, moreso than any other.
On a different note,
As interesting as I find Ed’s tantalizing theory that the unraveling of the weave was a deliberate plot by the gods of magic to put wizards in their place, a theory which respectfully I find unpalatable based on Mystra’s continuing ability to restrict magic to races and peoples without a wholesale cataclysm (e.g. preventing humans from accessing 10th level magic in 2e post Netheril in addition to driving her own champions insane. In addition it would at least presumably void the Cyric big imprisoned aspect of the story as well. So he’s not imprisoned then or was imprisoned for something else? It just doesn’t mesh (to me).
However presuming Mystra was truly dead and gone, what is to prevent another god from creating his own weave to access magic however he chose? It would go a long way to restoring divine power to what it was before the spellplague, as deities seem to be much weaker now. Did the deific abilities to warp reality (Alter Reality Salient Divine Ability) disappear with the weave? If so there would be little incentive for any deity not to hurry about imposing their own interface on the raw magic to restore those powers. Bane comes to mind as one of the deities who would be in the greatest hurry to make a weave of his own.
And hey, Azuth, aren’t you dead? ;)
Edit: Just had a sudden insight on who has been keeping Ao in check. It seems like they found a way to make Pun-Pun canon after all!
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Azuth, the First Magister
Lord of All Spells
The greatest expression of creativity is through Art.
Offense can never be given, only taken. |
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Chosen of Asmodeus
Master of Realmslore
1221 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jan 2011 : 00:12:53
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| I think the major difference between Cyric and Bhaal is that Cyric is nuttier than a fruitbat. Almost Joker like in his insanity. Murdering another god may have been so absurd that it never really occured to Bhaal. Cyric, on the other hand, would just go for it. |
"Then I saw there was a way to Hell even from the gates of Heaven"
- John Bunyan, Pilgrim's Progress
Fatum Iustum Stultorum. Righteous is the destiny of fools.
The Roleplayer's Gazebo;
http://theroleplayersgazebo.yuku.com/directory#.Ub4hvvlJOAY |
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Azuth
Senior Scribe
USA
404 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jan 2011 : 00:19:56
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Agreed that Cyric is the Prince of Lies, but he was "cured" of his insanity during his trial. Mystrul was born of a battle between Selûne and Shar over Chauntea (again, if memory serves me) but I'm almost certain that it was stated that no being can enter the Faerûnian Pantheon without Ao's explicit approval - maybe in SpellJammer? Anyway, Cyric and Shar would, in theory, be countered by Tyr and Selûne.
I am still pretty certain that the ramifications of the 4E changes were not well thought by WoTC, and saying "just because we said so" won't work on Realms fans any more than it works on teenagers.
Prestidigitation is only the most difficult spell to spell, not to cast. 
Azuth, the First Magister
Lord of all Spells
quote:
Originally posted by Chosen of Asmodeus
I think the major difference between Cyric and Bhaal is that Cyric is nuttier than a fruitbat. Almost Joker like in his insanity. Murdering another god may have been so absurd that it never really occured to Bhaal. Cyric, on the other hand, would just go for it.
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Azuth, the First Magister
Lord of All Spells
The greatest expression of creativity is through Art.
Offense can never be given, only taken. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31772 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jan 2011 : 00:35:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Azuth
I remain unhappy with many of WoTC's decisions since taking over D&D, although I did like their update to the brand for the third edition. On that note, could The Sage, THO, or anyone else share with me who designed the specatcular Candlekeep logo for this site? The lettering is superbly done.
I've the scribe's name on file here somewhere. Let me take a look. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Chosen of Asmodeus
Master of Realmslore
1221 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jan 2011 : 01:30:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Azuth
Agreed that Cyric is the Prince of Lies, but he was "cured" of his insanity during his trial. Mystrul was born of a battle between Selûne and Shar over Chauntea (again, if memory serves me) but I'm almost certain that it was stated that no being can enter the Faerûnian Pantheon without Ao's explicit approval - maybe in SpellJammer? Anyway, Cyric and Shar would, in theory, be countered by Tyr and Selûne.
I am still pretty certain that the ramifications of the 4E changes were not well thought by WoTC, and saying "just because we said so" won't work on Realms fans any more than it works on teenagers.
Prestidigitation is only the most difficult spell to spell, not to cast.
Azuth, the First Magister
Lord of all Spells
quote:
Originally posted by Chosen of Asmodeus
I think the major difference between Cyric and Bhaal is that Cyric is nuttier than a fruitbat. Almost Joker like in his insanity. Murdering another god may have been so absurd that it never really occured to Bhaal. Cyric, on the other hand, would just go for it.
Hrm. Didn't think Cyric was cured so much as had it toned down a bit. But if I'm wrong, I'm wrong.
And I'm decently sure Tyr was dead by that point, wasn't he? Been a while since I checked the timeline. |
"Then I saw there was a way to Hell even from the gates of Heaven"
- John Bunyan, Pilgrim's Progress
Fatum Iustum Stultorum. Righteous is the destiny of fools.
The Roleplayer's Gazebo;
http://theroleplayersgazebo.yuku.com/directory#.Ub4hvvlJOAY |
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Azuth
Senior Scribe
USA
404 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jan 2011 : 03:45:02
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Tyr oversaw the trial - I was unaware that he had ever died in the Pantheon.
Azuth, the First Magister
Lord of All Spells
quote:
Originally posted by Chosen of Asmodeus
quote:
Originally posted by Azuth
Agreed that Cyric is the Prince of Lies, but he was "cured" of his insanity during his trial. Mystrul was born of a battle between Selûne and Shar over Chauntea (again, if memory serves me) but I'm almost certain that it was stated that no being can enter the Faerûnian Pantheon without Ao's explicit approval - maybe in SpellJammer? Anyway, Cyric and Shar would, in theory, be countered by Tyr and Selûne.
I am still pretty certain that the ramifications of the 4E changes were not well thought by WoTC, and saying "just because we said so" won't work on Realms fans any more than it works on teenagers.
Prestidigitation is only the most difficult spell to spell, not to cast.
Azuth, the First Magister
Lord of all Spells
quote:
Originally posted by Chosen of Asmodeus
I think the major difference between Cyric and Bhaal is that Cyric is nuttier than a fruitbat. Almost Joker like in his insanity. Murdering another god may have been so absurd that it never really occured to Bhaal. Cyric, on the other hand, would just go for it.
Hrm. Didn't think Cyric was cured so much as had it toned down a bit. But if I'm wrong, I'm wrong.
And I'm decently sure Tyr was dead by that point, wasn't he? Been a while since I checked the timeline.
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Azuth, the First Magister
Lord of All Spells
The greatest expression of creativity is through Art.
Offense can never be given, only taken. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31772 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jan 2011 : 04:10:07
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Folks, let's try not to clutter Ed's scroll with side-chatter. This space is reserved for questions and replies to and from Ed. If you wish to continue your current discussion, please open a new scroll on another shelf.
Thank you. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jan 2011 : 12:16:15
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quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
Hi again, all.
I bring a surprise quick reply from Ed, re. this from Alisttair: "If someone wanted to open up a coffee shop (similar to our world's Starbucks, or maybe Tim Horton's) in Waterdeep, what sort of expenses and other hurdles can be expected? What are the chances of a steady clientele (I'm guessing it would mostly be from the nobility)?"
Ed replies:
There are over a dozen such shops in Waterdeep already, circa the 1370s, and over thirty circa 1479 DR. The hurdles would mainly be competition. Any such shop stands and falls on two things: the price/quality of their hot food (tarts, both sweet and savory [[meat pies and fish rolls]], and pastries, including eggbread buns with sugar melted over the top of them, and bacon-fried apple fritters ditto: literally, slices of apple coated in batter and fried in bacon fat, alongside bacon), and the variety and quality of their hot drinks (hot chocolate and hot fruit-pulp drinks and teas as well as coffees).
So, get good suppliers, keep the place clean, have a serving window for the street pass-through traffic and some cozy corners and/or booths for those who want to linger and do deals/talk semi-privately...and you're golden. As in coins. Miss out on these...and you'll miss out on riches, too.
BTW: no problems re "protection" rackets and the like, because the guilds as well as the Watch wantr more places like these to frequent, and will fiercely defend them if welcomed/made to feel at home.
So saith Ed. Dispensing free Realmslore wherever he goes...
love to all,
THO
Thanks for the reply. I'm sure the Watch would like these. T'would be akin to some moron trying to rob a dunkin donuts full of cops  |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
Edited by - Alisttair on 19 Jan 2011 12:16:46 |
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Aysen
Learned Scribe
115 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jan 2011 : 21:38:12
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Hello Ed, LHO, and fellow scribes,
I wanted to drop by with my first basket of questions for 2011, concerning the wizard Maxer Hlarr.
From the entry in Volo's Guide to Cormyr, Maxer has used constructs to explore a "drowned ruined city of sorcerors off the coast of Athkatla". Any further details on this? The only undersea ruins I can think of in that area are Helbrester, which the old listserv said was closer to Irphong and Velen.
Also, Maxer earned his title "Defender of Suzail" by defeating four dragons assaulting the city. Did Ed pin down a year when this took place? What were the colors and ages, and were they related by blood or of separate clutches? Why did the dragons attack Suzail, as they normally don't assault human cities without being tricked or magically coerced, or are Rage-crazed? (Or maybe they were imprisoned and released from somewhere within the city...) Were all the dragons killed or did some survive?
Thank you so much in advance Ed and THO! |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jan 2011 : 01:09:32
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Hi, Ed!
Can you please provide more information about the following arcanists/archwizards? Netheril: Empire of Magic offers only scant information about them.
Halavar
Noanar
Tolodine
Trebbe
Aksa
Anglin
Chever
Fourfinger
Fahren
Enollar
Hamring
Quantoul
Volhm
Lucke
Oberon
Xanad |
Every beginning has an end. |
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wakaman
Acolyte
12 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jan 2011 : 10:05:51
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quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
Hi again, all. Just a brief note to wakaman, relayed from Ed:
Great mythallar questions. It's going to take me a little while to craft a proper reply to you, because much of what you ask has been designed and purchased by TSR (now WotC) long ago, and therefore can't be offered by me here. In short, I have to dance around NDAs and paraphrase, in the same way that Candlekeep scribes have to paraphrase what's said in sources rather than quoting long passages outright.
I'll respond as soon as I can. Promise.
So saith Ed. Who is shoulder-deep in beholders right now (don't ask me why; he didn't say - - but he IS learning to cook  ).
love to all,
THO
No worries, THO and Ed!
I fully understand your constraints; take your time, and thank you for considering the matter at all!
wakaman |
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createvmind
Senior Scribe
490 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jan 2011 : 19:06:17
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Hello,
Are the gods united in opposing intrusion by the Far Realms? I assume the very nature of the realms is inimical to many far realm creatures so that may be a deterrent of sorts.
Ed in your Homebrew, what forces oppose far realm invasions, what forces oppose ethergaunts in particular? |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31772 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jan 2011 : 01:10:33
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quote:
Originally posted by createvmind
Hello,
Are the gods united in opposing intrusion by the Far Realms? I assume the very nature of the realms is inimical to many far realm creatures so that may be a deterrent of sorts.
Ed in your Homebrew, what forces oppose far realm invasions, what forces oppose ethergaunts in particular?
I'm not Ed, but I can note that the past threat of the Dragonking, I think, would make many gods sit up and take notice of incursions from the Far Realm.
The Dragonking details in City of Splendors: Waterdeep... pg. 63 -- under the Wands noble family entry, makes this apparent.
The original reference was in the 3rd of the "Marco Volo" modules in which the Dragonking makes a brief appearance in the Realms. [I wouldn't really recommend this adventure trilogy however, but they are considered part of canon Realmslore]. Eric Boyd tells us he that tried to work with them when expanding on the Dragonking entry in CoS. You can find the modules here for free:- http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dnd/downloads
From there, the Dragonking was mentioned in Volo's Guide to All Things Magical -- under the entry for the "Dragonking's Eye". Eric, thus, continued with the reference into CoS:W and makes a more solid connection to the Far Realm...
Also, with regard to the Dragonking's Eye... since the defeat of the Dragonking [after it was released by Marcus Wands], it's been noted that the alien god's release has resulted in an unusual effect occurring in the Realms. Strange entities from the Far Realm have slowly began appearing within the local vicinity of individual members of House Wands, and almost always at random.
So, for the most part, it would seem as though the Wands family have garnered some rather "undesired" attention from the bizarre creatures of the Outside Realm. And this "undesired" attention, I think, could attract the interest of divine agents working with deities concerned about these unusual effects and what they could mean for the future of this Prime Material.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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createvmind
Senior Scribe
490 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jan 2011 : 01:43:55
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| Thanks for input, hope Ed adds some more to what keeps bizarro realm at bay |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jan 2011 : 04:11:22
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Hi, Ed!
Would you be so kind as to give us more information about Larloch's 60 lich-servitors? What are their names? Are all of them Netherese? Did Larloch recruit some of them from different realms---or from other worlds? Are all of them willing servants or controlled? How powerful is each of them? |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Quale
Master of Realmslore
1757 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jan 2011 : 13:44:27
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Hi,
what's the name of the small forest south of the Way Inn? or is it considered a part of the Trollbark |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jan 2011 : 15:42:02
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Hi, Ed!
We've been discussing about this topic in a different thread, and I'd like to hear your thoughts about it...Is INCEST a taboo in the drow society? |
Every beginning has an end. |
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jan 2011 : 15:55:08
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Hi again, all. A swift reply from Ed to the above post from Dennis:
Hi, Dennis. It depends on the society; like humans, drow aren't monolithic in their societal norms - - even within Lolth-and-only-Lolth worshippers. In a city like Menzo as we saw it first in Bob's novels, incest isn't taboo because preservation, promotion, and dominance of the family is paramount; if you might lose territory or wealth by a marriage tie but can keep it by marrying in the family, incestuous formal unions won't be banned. They'd be more of a last resort than preferred, because you aren't swelling the family ranks and gaining bloodties with incestuous formal unions, but not abhorrent to the society. Informal incest (as in, not marriage but daily sex practices) with females as aggressors is probably widespread in some Lolth-dominated matriarchies, as a way of establishing and reinforcing dominance as well as the powerful having fun at the expense of the less powerful, but actual top-of-the-family matriarchs would usually be too paranoid (my sex partner could attack me!) to indulge much, even though they might well have when younger.
And in all such discussions, it's important to remember two things: those gamers offended or uncomfortable with such matters are encouraged to leave it all out of their games, but no one should be reasoning or making points in discussions on such matters by applying modern real-world attitudes, or what they know of historical real-world customs and attitudes, because (it should hardly need be said) the Realms isn't real, and isn't based on our real world more than as a setting for human imaginary goings-on.
For what it's worth, both Gary and I (how do I know this? we talked about it, over beer, at an early GenCon) envisaged the drow of the Vault (our first glimpse of them) as enjoying, not just tolerating, incest and murder and rape and all the rest. They were supposed to be depraved and EVIL, above all else. (And of course, that gets glossed over rather than highlighted in anything official published about them.)
So saith Ed. Illuminating and elucidating as he goes...
love,
THO |
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jan 2011 : 15:57:36
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Hi again, all. Just received another e-mail from Ed, and out of it I pick this, also to Dennis: sorry, most of what you request re. Larloch's servitors is NDA. Ed will do some checking to see what he can tell you about the Netherese archwizards (most of those names are corrupt hand-me-downs/nicknames, BTW, not the actual names of the people being discussed).
love,
THO |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jan 2011 : 16:18:33
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quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
Hi again, all. A swift reply from Ed to the above post from Dennis:
Hi, Dennis. It depends on the society; like humans, drow aren't monolithic in their societal norms - - even within Lolth-and-only-Lolth worshippers. In a city like Menzo as we saw it first in Bob's novels, incest isn't taboo because preservation, promotion, and dominance of the family is paramount; if you might lose territory or wealth by a marriage tie but can keep it by marrying in the family, incestuous formal unions won't be banned. They'd be more of a last resort than preferred, because you aren't swelling the family ranks and gaining bloodties with incestuous formal unions, but not abhorrent to the society. Informal incest (as in, not marriage but daily sex practices) with females as aggressors is probably widespread in some Lolth-dominated matriarchies, as a way of establishing and reinforcing dominance as well as the powerful having fun at the expense of the less powerful, but actual top-of-the-family matriarchs would usually be too paranoid (my sex partner could attack me!) to indulge much, even though they might well have when younger.
And in all such discussions, it's important to remember two things: those gamers offended or uncomfortable with such matters are encouraged to leave it all out of their games, but no one should be reasoning or making points in discussions on such matters by applying modern real-world attitudes, or what they know of historical real-world customs and attitudes, because (it should hardly need be said) the Realms isn't real, and isn't based on our real world more than as a setting for human imaginary goings-on.
For what it's worth, both Gary and I (how do I know this? we talked about it, over beer, at an early GenCon) envisaged the drow of the Vault (our first glimpse of them) as enjoying, not just tolerating, incest and murder and rape and all the rest. They were supposed to be depraved and EVIL, above all else. (And of course, that gets glossed over rather than highlighted in anything official published about them.)
So saith Ed. Illuminating and elucidating as he goes...
love,
THO
Thanks. Swift reply, indeed.
It seems like my views on it are somewhat similar to what you've just shared.
Re: "but no one should be reasoning or making points in discussions on such matters by applying modern real-world attitudes, or what they know of historical real-world customs and attitudes" In fairness to us who participated on the discussion on this very topic, none of us ventured to that path. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jan 2011 : 16:22:04
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quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
Hi again, all. Just received another e-mail from Ed, and out of it I pick this, also to Dennis: sorry, most of what you request re. Larloch's servitors is NDA. Ed will do some checking to see what he can tell you about the Netherese archwizards (most of those names are corrupt hand-me-downs/nicknames, BTW, not the actual names of the people being discussed).
love,
THO
Larloch's servitors: NDA...I sort of expected. But I told myself there's no harm in asking.
I'm looking forward to whatever you can find about those Netherese archwizards. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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_Jarlaxle_
Senior Scribe
Germany
584 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jan 2011 : 16:38:40
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quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
Hi again, all. Just received another e-mail from Ed, and out of it I pick this, also to Dennis: sorry, most of what you request re. Larloch's servitors is NDA. Ed will do some checking to see what he can tell you about the Netherese archwizards (most of those names are corrupt hand-me-downs/nicknames, BTW, not the actual names of the people being discussed).
love,
THO
Can Ed tell us something about Ioulaum instead? For example some insight what he has been up to in all those years as an eldar brain, if he has (ilithid) servitors etc? |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jan 2011 : 16:46:40
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Hi, Ed!
I'm sensing NDA here...but, well....
Some postulated that Larloch has Szass Tam's phylactery. How true? Or false? |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jan 2011 : 16:50:12
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A question here for Ed:
Are there any places in the realms where they know/keep track of nutritional value of foods. Do any know about protein, fiber, vitamins, etc...??
Also, if they do, has any alchemist of the realms ever tried making supplements, like protein powders and such? Where/what would be the main target customers/market for these (gladiators? city watch? circus strongmen?)
Again thanks! |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jan 2011 : 01:36:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
Another question- do you have any specific lore on the town of Lothen? History, people, places of note, local customs and religions, and the like would all be appreciated. It seems there is little to be found on it.
Er, still (patiently) waiting on a reply. I have seen what little has been written about its PAST, but I'm very curious about the present (1370's ish) status of this town and its surrounding environs. Who currently resides there, if anyone? What dangers might lurk there, or political/social groups are there? Have any elves attempted to reclaim it, or have any presence there? What's the local flora, fauna like? Monsters, or environmental hazards? I'm very interested in the situation there, for an RP that will shortly be heading there! |
The Goddess is alive, and magic is afoot.
"Where Science ends, Magic begins" -Spiral, Uncanny X-Men #491
"You idiots! You've captured their STUNT doubles!" -Spaceballs
Lothir's character background/stats: http://forum.candlekeep.com/pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=5469
My stories:
http://z3.invisionfree.com/Mickeys_Comic_Tavern/index.php?showforum=188
Lothir, courtesy of Sylinde (Deviant Art)/Luaxena (Chosen of Eilistraee)
http://sylinde.deviantart.com/#/d2z6e4u |
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jan 2011 : 02:29:00
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Hang in there! Ed promised me he'd try to get some lore replies done this weekend, the moment he finished the most pressing writing job (and he wrapped it up late this afternoon). Lothen is in the "small top pile," so with luck . . .
love,
THO |
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Questions for Ed Greenwood (2011)
Topic Locked
