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Originally posted by Markustay

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Originally posted by dennis

I don't think WotC is stupid enough to destroy an entire world <snip>

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Ummmmmmmmmmm...

Nevermind.

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Originally posted by Arik

Szass's dreal ritual has never actually been done before. It might fail to reformat the entire cosmos. It might even fail to reformat the entire Realms ... remember even the 12th level Karsus Avatar spell - as dramatically potent and world-breaking as it was - only managed to change the Realms. And as powerful as Szass-Lich-Zulkir-Bane might be, he most certainly cannot challenge the powers of all the Faerūnian deities who might act to minimize the destruction; he certainly cannot trump Ao nor the superdivine powers Ao serves (who are apparently somewhat interested in "preserving" the Realms).

His ritual could probably crater a big chunk of property though, maybe all of Thay or any other region bordered by his Dread Rings. It's doubtful he could encompass all of Toril, even given 1000 years of work.

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Originally posted by Markustay

I think the ritual will go horribly wrong (or right, depending upon how you look at it), and the 'Sorceror Supreme' will step-in and craft a spell that will fix everything by tapping-into the forces of chaos and cause an improbability-shift within the space-time continuum, making a specific event in the past happen differently, which will re-set the entire setting (back to 1357, probably).

Now where did I get a cockamamie theory like that? That's how Dr. Strange fixed things when Kulan Gath re-wrote the world (including bringing a crucified Spider-Man back to life, amongst other things)

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Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

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Originally posted by Arik

Szass's dreal ritual has never actually been done before. It might fail to reformat the entire cosmos. It might even fail to reformat the entire Realms ... remember even the 12th level Karsus Avatar spell - as dramatically potent and world-breaking as it was - only managed to change the Realms. And as powerful as Szass-Lich-Zulkir-Bane might be, he most certainly cannot challenge the powers of all the Faerūnian deities who might act to minimize the destruction; he certainly cannot trump Ao nor the superdivine powers Ao serves (who are apparently somewhat interested in "preserving" the Realms).

His ritual could probably crater a big chunk of property though, maybe all of Thay or any other region bordered by his Dread Rings. It's doubtful he could encompass all of Toril, even given 1000 years of work.

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I don't know if we can consider Ao, in this equation. After all, the existing lore says that Shar prevented the ascension of a new goddess of magic -- which wasn't something she should have been able to do; only Ao could do that, in prior editions. So I think Ao may have been quietly retconned out of existence.

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Originally posted by Menelvagor

Yeah, dennis is right. Shar was just hurting herself, because by preventing the ascension of a new Mystra, she stopped a young, unexprienced individual from being a goddess, and will now have to contend with the old Mystra, who knows all her tricks and can kick her ass.

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Originally posted by Markustay

Now where did I get a cockamamie theory like that? Thats how Dr. Strange fixed things when Kulan Gath re-wrote the world (including bringing a crucufied spiderman back to life, amongst other things).

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Trust me - the Realms are not being driven by any sort of 'creative juices', they are being driven by RW need at this point. Its no coincidence at all that Tam is casting a world-altering ritual at this time.

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Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

So I think Ao may have been quietly retconned out of existence.

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Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis

A better analogy would have been Strange/Mephisto "fixing" things after the Civil War so that the world's memory of Spidey's ID would be wiped, in order to save his aunt, and un-marrying him in the process. (Which was, of course, the entire point- there's your "re-set, MT!!)

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Originally posted by The Sage

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Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis

A better analogy would have been Strange/Mephisto "fixing" things after the Civil War so that the world's memory of Spidey's ID would be wiped, in order to save his aunt, and un-marrying him in the process. (Which was, of course, the entire point- there's your "re-set, MT!!)

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You really need to read One Moment In Time.

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Originally posted by The Sage

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Trust me - the Realms are not being driven by any sort of 'creative juices', they are being driven by RW need at this point. Its no coincidence at all that Tam is casting a world-altering ritual at this time.

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I'm going to disagree with this. I still feel there's a great deal of "creative love" for the Realms from folk like Brian James and Erik Scott de Bie. It echoes the kind of love we saw in 2e. It's just not as pronounced, because a great many long-time fans, are almost always too eager to dismiss the entirety of Realms work crafted for the post-Spellplague period.

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Originally posted by The Sage

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Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis

A better analogy would have been Strange/Mephisto "fixing" things after the Civil War so that the world's memory of Spidey's ID would be wiped, in order to save his aunt, and un-marrying him in the process. (Which was, of course, the entire point- there's your "re-set, MT!!)

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You really need to read One Moment In Time.

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Originally posted by The Sage

I'm going to disagree with this. I still feel there's a great deal of "creative love" for the Realms from folk like Brian James and Erik Scott de Bie. It echoes the kind of love we saw in 2e. It's just not as pronounced, because a great many long-time fans, are almost always too eager to dismiss the entirety of Realms work crafted for the post-Spellplague period.

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Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis

Just a side-note here. I've got that entire arc of ASM/Red Sonya, and Spidey was never crucified. He was tied to a post after being beaten half to death, but was never actually dead. And this happened only after Kulan had bonded with Venom, BTW....

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Wooly Rupert
So I think Ao may have been quietly retconned out of existence.

The Sage
Pretty much.
Per Rich Baker:- Ao is being ignored and effectively being written out of Realms post-Spellplague.

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Originally posted by Markustay

I suppose when he elevated Cyric after the ToT, it was just a matter of time before he came under review and got canned.

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Ed Greenwood created the Forgotten Realms.

Ao created Realmspace.

Ergo, Ao = Ed Greenwood.

And although I never cared for the character of Ao, I liked the concept, and if the above logic is true, then Ao's removal from the setting seems almost... apt.

Just replace 'Ao' with 'Ed' in Rich's comment.

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Originally posted by althen artren

Hidden spell nukes, in various areas where the
whole country is destroyed if Thay comes over
the hill. That seems like a Simbul method of
doing things.

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Originally posted by Dennis


The only (or greatest) deterrent to Thay's ambition of conquering Aglarond is the Witch-Queen herself. Now that she's gone – and Tam and the Red Wizards know it – what or who is keeping them from taking the necessary actions? I understand some of Tam's resources are being used elsewhere to erect the Dread Rings. But isn't Aglarond the best place for the DR's, all things considered? If not, once Tam successfully annexes it to Thay, he would possess far more resources for his greater goals. That alone is worth a try to conquer Aglarond.

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Originally posted by Erdrick Stormedge

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Originally posted by Dennis


The only (or greatest) deterrent to Thay's ambition of conquering Aglarond is the Witch-Queen herself. Now that she's gone – and Tam and the Red Wizards know it – what or who is keeping them from taking the necessary actions? I understand some of Tam's resources are being used elsewhere to erect the Dread Rings. But isn't Aglarond the best place for the DR's, all things considered? If not, once Tam successfully annexes it to Thay, he would possess far more resources for his greater goals. That alone is worth a try to conquer Aglarond.

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Well met Scribe dennis!

I though'est wise to direct thee hence:
http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=13802&whichpage=3

In yon scry-gate of the inter-aether, the faire Lady Most Hooded indicates that nae the Simbul 'twas a deterrent to Thay's ambition. The Lady Most Hooded seems to say that the Simbul 'twas an ally of Thaymount, though in'st a way 'ere only the Powers may understand!

Your original inquiry, forsooth, appeareth moot, dear scribe...

Until Swords Meet!

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Originally posted by althen artren

maybe there are nukes in his own country he's trying to find?

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Originally posted by Markustay

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Originally posted by dennis

Have you read The Haunted Lands?

Tam's primary goal is to raise the DR's so he could perform the great ritual that would enable him to ascend to godhood. He needs a land for them, and Thay is already not an option because the Rings he erected there can no longer be reused. Conquering Aglarond makes sense, specially that Alassra is now gone, and seems to need more time - a lot of it - to lick her wounds. With Aglarond in his grasp, Tam could easily build the DR's in it; or if he deems another land or realm is more suitable, he could still use Aglarond's resources to seize that realm.

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He needs to stop listening to Kiaransalee and tear a page out of Vecna's book - ruling a dead-world is BORING.

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Dennis

Note also that deep inside [Szass] hates himself for being a lich---a sheer corrupted existence he wishes to "correct" through the grand ritual.

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Originally posted by Arik

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Dennis

Note also that deep inside [Szass] hates himself for being a lich---a sheer corrupted existence he wishes to "correct" through the grand ritual.

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I'm not certain I can agree with this part of your answer, D.

As I understand it, Szass was initially unhappy with his lichdom. He was killed "too early" while still a living lichnee (under 1E liching rules), completing the liching process before attaining whatever goals/levels he had planned to reach before his death.

He's obviously managed to do fairly well for himself in the subsequent centuries. He took care to preserve and perfume his dead flesh as much as possible to maintain the charade of life ... great uncertainty (and many rumours) about Szass's lich status persisted among all but his closest peers for centuries.

Szass is clearly portrayed as possessing nearly-inhuman emotional detachment, intellect, experience, and accomplishment. I would describe him as coldly arrogant, condescending, prone to diabolical mwoohahaaa and monologues to underscore his superiority. He seems to derive some enjoyment from prolonging demonstrations of his dominance and sophisticated sadistry. He clearly views mortal humans as disposable, inferior, and largely incompetent.

This doesn't seem compatible with your statement.

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