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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
 Posted - 06 Dec 2010 : 04:17:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
Arik, this is all the better reason for you to read Elminster: Making of a /mage, and Homeland, because those books show just how a low-level character can go through lots of blood, sweat, and tears to get the job done. You don't even need a dwarf with an axe to do a job- just a VERY determined hero (of any stripe) willing to get his hands dirty once in a while. And not all mages (ab)use their magic to do EVERYTHING. Some use it only when they absolutely must.
I say it all depends on how the author "handles" the characters. Besides, Arik, didn't you say you like the TW? There's plenty of magical blasting in there.
quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
These are the wise few who realize that always taking the easy way is the path to corruption. Gandalf, Elminster, Dumbledore... See the connection?
You missed Pug.  |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
8030 Posts |
Posted - 06 Dec 2010 : 14:11:37
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Yes. There's plenty of examples of no-magic writing which violate my sense of proprietary "fairness". Heroes who happily wade into battle and slaughter impossibly vast hordes armed with only a sharp toothpick and bad attitude. On the opposite extreme, a first level wizard who gets a nosebleed and needs to lie down for a few hours after casting his one Magic Missile for the day isn't all that interesting to read about, he becomes little more than a talking musket which the other characters drag around and shoot (hopefully without a misfire) in scary moments, becoming somewhat useless until he's reloaded.
Perversely, there are examples (even in FR titles) where I want to see more magic. PSK's Twilight trilogy comes to mind, I'm left feeling almost mildly disappointed when Rivalen "simply" shifts through shadows and backstabs somebody with a pigsticker, I want to see him cast some kind of Chain Disintegrate or Thermonuclear Fireball instead - the books are written in a way that makes heavy use of blatantly high-level characters while somehow engaging me with the desire to see more "cheating" explosions and eye-candy, I want to see the characters do things that are "impossible". I was enthralled by Raistlin for years, he just couldn't possibly cast spells fast enough for my tastes. Another fine example is the Wizzard Rincewind, who suffers from particularly horrible consequences whenever he uses magic, yet I want to see more and more of his tales (though of course even the author maintains Discworld is by no means "any kind of literature", it's just "pulpy entertainment"). The magic in itself isn't bad at all; entertaining, thoughtful, and skilled writing inspires a constant taste for more magic - that's what fantasy is all about. Of course nothing good is added to the story if mundane needs (like cooking dinner) are constantly addressed by magic, aside from times when such elements are somehow central to the tale or used to sneak in tidbits about the setting.
So yea, 'tis all about the author's ability to spin and weave a tale. High-level characters can be as compelling as lower-level characters. But the accomplishments of lower-level characters are "easier" to portray in a "fair" manner (because lowly wimps don't have much magic), so books written about them tend to be (for me) more satisfying. I can't presume to speak for every author, but I'd suspect many are as attracted to high-level characters as we are (as I am), so given a choice they'd probably be inclined to write about known high-level characters before writing about low-level nobodies. My comments are more about books wherein authors frequently resort to "cheap magic" instead of doing things the "right way".
Sorry dennis - "TW"?
We still need more good books about dwarves mumblegrumblegrrr |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 06 Dec 2010 14:19:35 |
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Ozzalum
Learned Scribe
USA
277 Posts |
Posted - 06 Dec 2010 : 14:58:47
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I wonder how popular Homeland and Elminster: Making of a Mage would have been if they had been published before they had made names for themselves. I may be mistaken in which books are the most popular, but it seems to me that WotC probably knows its audience pretty well. You'll also note that when people are asked to recommend books, you'll get a lot of recommendations for the big guns.
Of course, I'll be writing for the fine folks here, and you don't necessarily represent the typical FR book readers.
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
Posted - 06 Dec 2010 : 17:41:01
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In the case of Homeland, it was actually the FOURTH Drizzt book, which many people seem to forget, since it comes before the rest, chronologically. So he already had made a name for himself. but that was the very reason RAS wrote it- because people wanted to see where this guy came from.
@ dennis. Missed Pug? I'm not familiar with him, so if I missed him, it's due to lack of having read the book(s) he's in.... I'm sort of finicky in my fantasy reading, and often find that many books that get recommended to me just don't hold my interest, usually due to overly-descriptive prose. I like description, just not in the Dean Koontz sort of way. I'm more of a middle-of-the-road gal when it comes to descriptions. Less is often more, IMO. I think it comes down to a balance- magic or horde-slaying is best done in ways that help tell a really good story, particularly if done by high-level type characters. But I'm also less interested in hacking or blasting one's way through scores or more of foes, than with good old fashioned ingenuity and cleverness. I'd rather see a hero who finds a way to defeat the bad guy WITHOUT having to resort to battle after battle with unnamed minions or monsters, and who does so with panache and perhaps an occasional snarky comment to his companions. Leave the big flashy battles for the final showdown, and make every fight count for something. And it helps if the protagonist doesn't always appear to get out unscathed. One thing I try to do in my own writing is to nake the danger very real, and give a sense that yes, this IS possibly the end of the hero. Fighting a dragon is no fun if you don't get a little singed!!! |
The Goddess is alive, and magic is afoot.
"Where Science ends, Magic begins" -Spiral, Uncanny X-Men #491
"You idiots! You've captured their STUNT doubles!" -Spaceballs
Lothir's character background/stats: http://forum.candlekeep.com/pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=5469
My stories:
http://z3.invisionfree.com/Mickeys_Comic_Tavern/index.php?showforum=188
Lothir, courtesy of Sylinde (Deviant Art)/Luaxena (Chosen of Eilistraee)
http://sylinde.deviantart.com/#/d2z6e4u |
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Ozzalum
Learned Scribe
USA
277 Posts |
Posted - 06 Dec 2010 : 17:50:13
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| Of course, it is easier to have that sense of "this could really be the end" if you don't already know that three books were written about the character chronicling his adventures after the events you are currently reading. That's the question for me, whether "people" actually want to read about nobodies on their way up... or on their way to a violent end, as opposed to reading prequels about established characters. |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
8030 Posts |
Posted - 06 Dec 2010 : 18:27:56
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| A story about young Szass assassinating his way through the ranks in old Thay would be interesting. As would a story about Mirt's youth (if it ever existed). |
[/Ayrik] |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 07 Dec 2010 : 00:40:00
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@ Arik: TW= Twilight War
@Alystra: Pug is the Black Sorcerer, a Great One, an archmage who appeared in almost all of Raymond E. Feist's novels. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Ozzalum
Learned Scribe
USA
277 Posts |
Posted - 07 Dec 2010 : 12:49:42
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While not directly applicable to my concept, I'm wondering how you write about a 1st or 2nd level mage. With fighters, thieves, and priests, the character can at least fall back on some martial prowess. For fighters and thieves especially, their abilities are a matter of relative skill level. With clerics and mages, they either can or can't cast a given spell. It seems like it is tougher to fudge them.
Which is why Drizzt can be a badass for book after book. In earlier books he's a badass because he can take on three female drow fighters and prevail, in later books he's a badass because he can take on a undead dragon infused with artifact power. Fighters are readily scalable that way. Not sure you can do the same thing with a mage. They don't really become potent until they have at least a few levels under their belts. |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
8030 Posts |
Posted - 07 Dec 2010 : 19:15:27
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| That's easy. Find tales and writing you like and try to emulate their style while adding in your own ideas. There's plenty of tales about young/apprentice spellcasters (usually male, oddly, maybe nice to see some feminine casters); books, movies, television. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 07 Dec 2010 : 21:39:33
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Thread seems to have missed the Knights of Myth Drannor novels!
I like low levels lots; people's people. |
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Low Level Main Characters
