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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
 Posted - 30 Dec 2010 : 03:57:53
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
BTW, does anyone own a physical copy of that module?
Indeed, I do. 'Tis one of the most treasured parts of my old D&D/FR collection.  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 30 Dec 2010 : 04:02:51
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Look at the back cover.
What ever happened to 'Womford'?  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3567 Posts |
Posted - 30 Dec 2010 : 04:03:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Brynweir
I understand, but with thousands of other books and other authors to read, I'll be okay for a while. I never even finished all the pre-4th novels. I'm good for a while. 
Perhaps Paul Kemp could write something that might make me change my mind
that's the positive I took from it all, Reading and discovering new novels.....although I will continue reading Ed and Elaine. But I now find other books at the top of my wish list , where before any and every new fr novel would automatically jump to the next to be purchased ......that is no longer the case.
But I am anxiously awaiting Bury Elminster Deep |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jan 2011 : 01:44:15
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quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker
quote:
Originally posted by Brynweir
I understand, but with thousands of other books and other authors to read, I'll be okay for a while. I never even finished all the pre-4th novels. I'm good for a while.
Perhaps Paul Kemp could write something that might make me change my mind
that's the positive I took from it all, Reading and discovering new novels.....although I will continue reading Ed and Elaine. But I now find other books at the top of my wish list , where before any and every new fr novel would automatically jump to the next to be purchased ......that is no longer the case.
But I am anxiously awaiting Bury Elminster Deep
I used to have the read-all-the-books-by-your-favorite-writer view. However, I had long ago discovered that there simply are novels by my favorite authors which I couldn't stand. Either the authors changed "outlook" which reflected in their works, or I did, consequently finding those by the authors disappointing. Sometimes I just see it a chance for me to discover and read books by other writers. Thankfully for me, it's not a problem, as fantasy is a genre that's teeming both with fresh and tested (old) talents. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Erdrick Stormedge
Learned Scribe
132 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jan 2011 : 23:04:24
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
BTW, does anyone own a physical copy of that module?
Indeed, I do. 'Tis one of the most treasured parts of my old D&D/FR collection.
Long Live Duke Conan (and his mistress, Sonja) ! |
Edited by - Erdrick Stormedge on 03 Jan 2011 23:09:20 |
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jan 2011 : 14:12:02
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| I voted somewhere in between. For the most part I enjoyed the novel, but found that a lot of characters didn't TRULY die in the past 100 years (Mirt, Vangerdahast and Alusair in particular), which sort of bugged me. |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jan 2011 : 14:17:13
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quote:
Originally posted by DennisNow, if that voice is Cyric's or Shar's, remind me again not to read the next book.
To add to my last post, Mystra.
Because opposite of what you said, I personally hope it is the voice of Cyric, the PRINCE OF LIES!!
plus it would go against my theory that Karsus will return as the god of magic   |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jan 2011 : 19:10:48
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| The silverfire, whatever's left of it, might have prevented any malign, divine intrusion into the Chosen's minds. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jan 2011 : 19:12:57
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| A thought. Didn't Mystra leave her divine essence in her chosen in case she died??? |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jan 2011 : 19:17:32
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| That's a possibility that was raised before. Though I prefer that she left it not in her Chosen but in some unknowing lass or lad. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jan 2011 : 19:26:42
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| Yeah but I thought it was written that she had chosen for that purpose (back in some 2e sourcebook(s) anyways). |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jan 2011 : 19:37:06
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| Maybe you mean in The Shadow of the Avatar trilogy, particularly in Shadows of Doom, where El 'carried' Mystra's essence and consequently prevented him from casting spells, save those from word-triggered wands. |
Every beginning has an end. |
Edited by - Dennis on 06 Jan 2011 19:37:54 |
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Brynweir
Senior Scribe
USA
436 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jan 2011 : 01:01:00
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quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker
quote:
Originally posted by Brynweir
I understand, but with thousands of other books and other authors to read, I'll be okay for a while. I never even finished all the pre-4th novels. I'm good for a while.
Perhaps Paul Kemp could write something that might make me change my mind
that's the positive I took from it all, Reading and discovering new novels.....although I will continue reading Ed and Elaine. But I now find other books at the top of my wish list , where before any and every new fr novel would automatically jump to the next to be purchased ......that is no longer the case.
But I am anxiously awaiting Bury Elminster Deep
Yes. I read a lot of non-FR novels. I go through about 200 books a year (and list some faves in my sig.), though this year I have spent a good deal more time RPing and writing than reading. I just don't have the "gotta have it" feel any more. Though if they kill off Elminster permanently, I might buy that one.  |
Edited by - Brynweir on 07 Jan 2011 01:01:42 |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jan 2011 : 01:15:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Brynweir
I just don't have the "gotta have it" feel any more. Though if they kill off Elminster permanently, I might buy that one.
That's not gonna happen. In the next 30 years, maybe. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jan 2011 : 11:55:05
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Maybe you mean in The Shadow of the Avatar trilogy, particularly in Shadows of Doom, where El 'carried' Mystra's essence and consequently prevented him from casting spells, save those from word-triggered wands.
I remember that, but for some reason I thought I saw something more, like in the Heroe's Lorebook or something. |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
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Chosen of Asmodeus
Master of Realmslore
1221 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jan 2011 : 13:09:59
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I haven't gotten the chance to read The Sage of Shadowdale Needs to Perish! yet, but it is on the list.
I'm going to go ahead and say that I'm in the (apparent) minority of realms fans that does not want to see Mystra return. Just thought I'd get that out there. Thank you, and excuse me while I go hide behind a blast shield. |
"Then I saw there was a way to Hell even from the gates of Heaven"
- John Bunyan, Pilgrim's Progress
Fatum Iustum Stultorum. Righteous is the destiny of fools.
The Roleplayer's Gazebo;
http://theroleplayersgazebo.yuku.com/directory#.Ub4hvvlJOAY |
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jan 2011 : 15:08:47
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quote:
Originally posted by Chosen of Asmodeus
I haven't gotten the chance to read The Sage of Shadowdale Needs to Perish! yet, but it is on the list.
I'm going to go ahead and say that I'm in the (apparent) minority of realms fans that does not want to see Mystra return. Just thought I'd get that out there. Thank you, and excuse me while I go hide behind a blast shield.
yay I have a friend |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
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Therise
Master of Realmslore
1272 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jan 2011 : 15:34:19
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The more I think about it, I'm starting to doubt that Mystra died. I think we will find out that everyone thought she was killed, but that she actually used Cyric in order to help her disperse energy through the Weave. I think the "shadow weave" never really was what people thought it was (i.e. it wasn't actually an alternate power source), but it was actually a kind of disease that would've destroyed the Weave. By dispersing fully into the Weave, Mystra destroyed the "shadow weave" poison but it caused a lot of corollary damage... it was either that, or let magic (and perhaps all of Toril) be destoyed.
And for the past 100 years, Mystra has been too busy making repairs to the actual, real Weave (which is just base magic, and how it was originally described) such that she hasn't had time to communicate with anyone.
It would mean that the Weave wasn't an overlay, or a method, or a "lie". The real lie was that the "shadow weave" (which WAS an overlay) wasn't a power source, but a disease on magic and the fabric of reality. |
Female, 40-year DM of a homebrew-evolved 1E Realms, including a few added tidbits of 2E and 3E lore; played originally in AD&D, then in Rolemaster. Be a DM for your kids and grandkids, gaming is excellent for families! |
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Erdrick Stormedge
Learned Scribe
132 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jan 2011 : 16:01:51
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Nae, Therise. The Shadow weave twas indeed a second, fell mystic conduit. Dead magic zones were, or beist, the sign of a blighted weave.
quote:
Originally posted by Therise
The more I think about it, I'm starting to doubt that Mystra died. I think we will find out that everyone thought she was killed, but that she actually used Cyric in order to help her disperse energy through the Weave. I think the "shadow weave" never really was what people thought it was (i.e. it wasn't actually an alternate power source), but it was actually a kind of disease that would've destroyed the Weave. By dispersing fully into the Weave, Mystra destroyed the "shadow weave" poison but it caused a lot of corollary damage... it was either that, or let magic (and perhaps all of Toril) be destoyed.
And for the past 100 years, Mystra has been too busy making repairs to the actual, real Weave (which is just base magic, and how it was originally described) such that she hasn't had time to communicate with anyone.
It would mean that the Weave wasn't an overlay, or a method, or a "lie". The real lie was that the "shadow weave" (which WAS an overlay) wasn't a power source, but a disease on magic and the fabric of reality.
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jan 2011 : 16:13:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Erdrick Stormedge
Nae, Therise. The Shadow weave twas indeed a second, fell mystic conduit. Dead magic zones were, or beist, the sign of a blighted weave.
And shadow weave dead magic zones were a cure |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
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Erdrick Stormedge
Learned Scribe
132 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jan 2011 : 16:36:52
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Shadow weave magic twas wrought by the Shadowmother to allow her followers easy use of spellcraft after her corruption of The One True Spell was complete... aye. The Goddess, all powerful, dealt a telling blow to her Dark Aunt with her (near) destruction. The Lady is wise, and is Reborn!
Hail, and know She Who is the One True Spell!
quote:
Originally posted by Alisttair
quote:
Originally posted by Erdrick Stormedge
Nae, Therise. The Shadow weave twas indeed a second, fell mystic conduit. Dead magic zones were, or beist, the sign of a blighted weave.
And shadow weave dead magic zones were a cure
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Edited by - Erdrick Stormedge on 07 Jan 2011 16:39:56 |
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Therise
Master of Realmslore
1272 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jan 2011 : 17:05:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Erdrick Stormedge
Nae, Therise. The Shadow weave twas indeed a second, fell mystic conduit. Dead magic zones were, or beist, the sign of a blighted weave.
quote:
Originally posted by Therise
The more I think about it, I'm starting to doubt that Mystra died. I think we will find out that everyone thought she was killed, but that she actually used Cyric in order to help her disperse energy through the Weave. I think the "shadow weave" never really was what people thought it was (i.e. it wasn't actually an alternate power source), but it was actually a kind of disease that would've destroyed the Weave. By dispersing fully into the Weave, Mystra destroyed the "shadow weave" poison but it caused a lot of corollary damage... it was either that, or let magic (and perhaps all of Toril) be destoyed.
And for the past 100 years, Mystra has been too busy making repairs to the actual, real Weave (which is just base magic, and how it was originally described) such that she hasn't had time to communicate with anyone.
It would mean that the Weave wasn't an overlay, or a method, or a "lie". The real lie was that the "shadow weave" (which WAS an overlay) wasn't a power source, but a disease on magic and the fabric of reality.
No, I think we will find out shortly that the shadow weave wasn't a power source. I'm speculating, of course, but I think I'll be right: what we've been told about the shadow weave has all been a lie. And those dead magic zones? That was the shadow weave doing what it was intended to do - to destroy the Weave.
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Female, 40-year DM of a homebrew-evolved 1E Realms, including a few added tidbits of 2E and 3E lore; played originally in AD&D, then in Rolemaster. Be a DM for your kids and grandkids, gaming is excellent for families! |
Edited by - Therise on 07 Jan 2011 17:06:51 |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4471 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jan 2011 : 17:19:41
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quote:
Originally posted by Chosen of Asmodeus
I'm going to go ahead and say that I'm in the (apparent) minority of realms fans that does not want to see Mystra return. Just thought I'd get that out there. Thank you, and excuse me while I go hide behind a blast shield.
Minority, yes but not alone. I too didn't want to see her return. When they supposedly "killed" her off during the Spellplague I pretty much knew she was coming back. WotC and FR authors have a hard time letting deities stay dead it seems. Moander has come back how many times now? Is Eilistraee really dead or is her "essence" still out there or among the other elven deities of Avandor? And even Bhaal still has his little minions running around (pre-Spellplague anyways).
The point being, deities in FR seems to take decades and editions to fully die. I think with 4E, we'll see very little if nothing more of Tyr and probably Bhaal and Myrkul but even with the culling of the pantheons or deities not getting full write-ups in the FRCG, they're still there more or less.
But in regards to Mystra making a come-back, they should have her be WAAY more strict and stern. I think the new Alignment system works in her favor, making her Unaligned. But I fully believe her main problem was in what was written about her. I'd actually like to see a few anti-heroes in her worship. Show us readers that she's not all Smiles and Sunshine and putting her Favored on a pedestal. |
Diffan's NPG Generator: FR NPC Generator |
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Erdrick Stormedge
Learned Scribe
132 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jan 2011 : 17:33:42
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Wanton speculation aside, Scribe Therise... I 'ave walked these 'Realms long enough to know that Zones of Dead Magic arose in The One Land long before The Shadow Weave. Dost thou knows the Earth Sage, and Chronicler of Elminster, Ed of the Greenwood? This worthy has corroborated this appraisal 'ere at Candlekeep.
quote:
Originally posted by Therise
quote:
Originally posted by Erdrick Stormedge
Nae, Therise. The Shadow weave twas indeed a second, fell mystic conduit. Dead magic zones were, or beist, the sign of a blighted weave.
quote:
Originally posted by Therise
The more I think about it, I'm starting to doubt that Mystra died. I think we will find out that everyone thought she was killed, but that she actually used Cyric in order to help her disperse energy through the Weave. I think the "shadow weave" never really was what people thought it was (i.e. it wasn't actually an alternate power source), but it was actually a kind of disease that would've destroyed the Weave. By dispersing fully into the Weave, Mystra destroyed the "shadow weave" poison but it caused a lot of corollary damage... it was either that, or let magic (and perhaps all of Toril) be destoyed.
And for the past 100 years, Mystra has been too busy making repairs to the actual, real Weave (which is just base magic, and how it was originally described) such that she hasn't had time to communicate with anyone.
It would mean that the Weave wasn't an overlay, or a method, or a "lie". The real lie was that the "shadow weave" (which WAS an overlay) wasn't a power source, but a disease on magic and the fabric of reality.
No, I think we will find out shortly that the shadow weave wasn't a power source. I'm speculating, of course, but I think I'll be right: what we've been told about the shadow weave has all been a lie. And those dead magic zones? That was the shadow weave doing what it was intended to do - to destroy the Weave.
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Edited by - Erdrick Stormedge on 07 Jan 2011 17:35:37 |
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Therise
Master of Realmslore
1272 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jan 2011 : 17:48:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Erdrick Stormedge
Wanton speculation aside, Scribe Therise... I 'ave walked these 'Realms long enough to know that Zones of Dead Magic arose in The One Land long before The Shadow Weave. Dost thou knows the Earth Sage, and Chronicler of Elminster, Ed of the Greenwood? This worthy has corroborated this appraisal 'ere at Candlekeep.
Erdrick, I've been following the Realms since Greenwood's Pages from the Mages. Ed has always maintained that the "truths" we think we know about the Realms are just the best guess of current sages.
It's not out of the realm of possibility to suggest that everything we think we knew about the so-called "shadow weave" may in fact have been off the mark.
I'm being more than clear that I'm speculating, so there's no reason to suggest that I'm simply inexperienced or unfamiliar with the Realms. |
Female, 40-year DM of a homebrew-evolved 1E Realms, including a few added tidbits of 2E and 3E lore; played originally in AD&D, then in Rolemaster. Be a DM for your kids and grandkids, gaming is excellent for families! |
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Erdrick Stormedge
Learned Scribe
132 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jan 2011 : 18:00:34
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Ho Ho Ho! thou dost remind be of the philosophical tobagonists
Of many a world!
Sweet water and light laughter my young friend@
quote:
Originally posted by Therise
quote:
Originally posted by Erdrick Stormedge
Wanton speculation aside, Scribe Therise... I 'ave walked these 'Realms long enough to know that Zones of Dead Magic arose in The One Land long before The Shadow Weave. Dost thou knows the Earth Sage, and Chronicler of Elminster, Ed of the Greenwood? This worthy has corroborated this appraisal 'ere at Candlekeep.
Erdrick, I've been following the Realms since Greenwood's Pages from the Mages. Ed has always maintained that the "truths" we think we know about the Realms are just the best guess of current sages.
It's not out of the realm of possibility to suggest that everything we think we knew about the so-called "shadow weave" may in fact have been off the mark.
I'm being more than clear that I'm speculating, so there's no reason to suggest that I'm simply inexperienced or unfamiliar with the Realms.
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jan 2011 : 18:21:32
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| Hmm, I like Therise's notion. True, not all dead magic zones are from the Shadow Weave, but here's the thing- all of them have resulted from some form of damage to the Weave itself. If the Shadow Weave was indeed designed to destroy it, it could well be that some of those zones came from it. Also, do remember that Shar is a goddess of destruction and entropy. It's certainly within her portfolio to try to use some sort of "disease" to destroy the Weave and thus, Mystra herself. Therise may be closer to the mark than we think. |
The Goddess is alive, and magic is afoot.
"Where Science ends, Magic begins" -Spiral, Uncanny X-Men #491
"You idiots! You've captured their STUNT doubles!" -Spaceballs
Lothir's character background/stats: http://forum.candlekeep.com/pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=5469
My stories:
http://z3.invisionfree.com/Mickeys_Comic_Tavern/index.php?showforum=188
Lothir, courtesy of Sylinde (Deviant Art)/Luaxena (Chosen of Eilistraee)
http://sylinde.deviantart.com/#/d2z6e4u |
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Therise
Master of Realmslore
1272 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jan 2011 : 18:34:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
Hmm, I like Therise's notion. True, not all dead magic zones are from the Shadow Weave, but here's the thing- all of them have resulted from some form of damage to the Weave itself. If the Shadow Weave was indeed designed to destroy it, it could well be that some of those zones came from it. Also, do remember that Shar is a goddess of destruction and entropy. It's certainly within her portfolio to try to use some sort of "disease" to destroy the Weave and thus, Mystra herself. Therise may be closer to the mark than we think.
I strongly suspect that when we first heard about the shadow weave wasn't when it was first created. If its original purpose was just to destroy the Weave (all magic), those first dead magic zones might've been due to the "shadow weave".
Some Realmsian sage may have thought that the "shadow weave" had allowed access to shadow magic and powered shadow spells (because he knew it was connected to Shar), but if we really think about it mages have been casting shadow spells forever. In 4E, it's known that the source for shadow magic is the shadowfel... and back in the day, the shadow source could've been the same thing. So yeah, I think we've been led astray by the idea that the "shadow weave" was anything other than some kind of long-term plan to eat away and destroy the Weave (i.e. ALL magic).
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Female, 40-year DM of a homebrew-evolved 1E Realms, including a few added tidbits of 2E and 3E lore; played originally in AD&D, then in Rolemaster. Be a DM for your kids and grandkids, gaming is excellent for families! |
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Erdrick Stormedge
Learned Scribe
132 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jan 2011 : 18:40:58
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quote:
Originally posted by Therise
quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
Hmm, I like Therise's notion. True, not all dead magic zones are from the Shadow Weave, but here's the thing- all of them have resulted from some form of damage to the Weave itself. If the Shadow Weave was indeed designed to destroy it, it could well be that some of those zones came from it. Also, do remember that Shar is a goddess of destruction and entropy. It's certainly within her portfolio to try to use some sort of "disease" to destroy the Weave and thus, Mystra herself. Therise may be closer to the mark than we think.
I strongly suspect that when we first heard about the shadow weave wasn't when it was first created. If its original purpose was just to destroy the Weave (all magic), those first dead magic zones might've been due to the "shadow weave".
Some Realmsian sage may have thought that the "shadow weave" had allowed access to shadow magic and powered shadow spells (because he knew it was connected to Shar), but if we really think about it mages have been casting shadow spells forever. In 4E, it's known that the source for shadow magic is the shadowfel... and back in the day, the shadow source could've been the same thing. So yeah, I think we've been led astray by the idea that the "shadow weave" was anything other than some kind of long-term plan to eat away and destroy the Weave (i.e. ALL magic).
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Elminster Must Die---Hit or Miss? [Spoilers]
