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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4491 Posts |
 Posted - 28 Nov 2010 : 17:34:56
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So with the tons of various organizations in the Realms, I think it would be a lot of fun to put some mechanical spin on what it means to be in those organizations. This is mainly used from the rules placed in the PHB 2 and DMG 2, plus other FR supplements like Waterdeep: City of Splendors. The rules for making them are fairly simple and below is my own version of one. Hope you like it. BTW, it utilized 3.5 rules, but I'm sure you can adapt it to be used with 2ed or even 4E with little modification.
The Radiant Crusade
Symbol: The symbol of the Radiant Crusade is a brilliant golden sun on a scarlet field.
Backround, Goals, and Dreams: The Radiant Crusade is a militaristic, armored organization dedicated to stamping out undead from the face of Faerun. The crusader Tarious Lydamar founded the Radiant Crusade in 1361 (Year of Maidens) with the hopes of doing good deeds, healing the sick, giving alms to the poor, and destroying undead. Fairly new to Faerun, the Radiant Crusade has started to make a name for itself as the bane of undeath. As with most Lathanderite orders and companies, ensuring the well being of it's members as well as all people who live in the surrounding areas is one of their goals, just not the first. Because Radiant Crusaders often strike out into dangerous places such as haunted woods and cemeteries in search of undead, they are less likely to work in villages or towns for lenghty periods.
Members: The Radiant Crusade looks kindly on all like minded races, and it's members welcome all equally. Most classes within the Crusade are clerics, crusaders, fighters, knights, and paladins. Other classes such as the ranger might find this organization useful if his favored enemy is undead and the Crusade's militaristic aspects appeal to the scout as well. Arcane casters are also welcome into the Crusade's roster, namely warmages and wizards. The former brings a host of arcane artillery and the fact that they can use armor makes them less vulnerable while the latter is a wellspring of information about such creatures and their habits plus their plethora of utility spells can make a big difference on any battlefield.
Enemies and Allies: With the work of Dawnlord Tarious, they have gained potent allies such as the Order of Aster, the Champions Vigilant, and the Knights of the Eternal Order along with other good-aligned churches.
The Crusade's first and foremost enemies are the undead (archliches/baelnorn excluded). Other enemies include evil-aligned churches such as the church of Bane, Cyric, Shar, and Talos. The church of Velsharoon however is far more vile to the Crusade because of what it represents and it's clergy are always attacked on sight. Evil organizations such as the Zhentarim, the Red Wizards of Thay, and espically the Cult of the Dragon are forefront on their list of enemies as well.
Scale 10 (regional)
Affiliation Score Criteria: Organization membership is open to anyone, although most are required to perform some sort of task appropriate to their rank and abilities to demonstrate their commitment and zeal to destroying undead.
Criterion / Affilitation Score Modifier
One-Time
Chracter level / +1/2 PC's level
Knowledge (religion) 5-9 ranks / +1
Knowledge (religion) 10 or more ranks / +2
Heal 5-9 ranks / +1
Heal 10 or more ranks / +2
Can cast Heal / +3
Can cast Undeath to Death / +5
Has been undead / -8
Multipul Use
Destroys a CR 8 or higher undead creature* / +1/4 creatures CR
Undertakes a mission to hunt undead* / +1
Razes the stronghold of an undead creature* / +8
Brings a dead creature back to life with
raise dead or similar magic / +2
Aids the less fortunate with own funds / +1/500 gp expended
Converts a new member / +1
Associates with undead / -4
Associates with evil outsiders / -2
Casts animate dead or summon undead / -4
Acts against alignment / -10
*Stacks with other mission criteria.
Titles, Benefits, and Duties: As you advance within the ranks of the Radiant Crusade, you learn undead-fighting techniques and minister the ill and infirm.
Rank / Affilitation Score / Title: Benefits and Duties
0 / 3 or lower / None.
1 / 4-9 / The Illuminated: Gain a +2 bonus
on Knowledge(religion) checks reguarding undead.
2 / 10-17 / Soldier of Light: Gain a +2 bonus on
turning checks or cast hide from undead 1/day as a Sp.
CL equals character level.
3 / 18-24 / Scarlet Shield Knight: 1/day as a swift
action grant any weapon you wield the flaming property for
1 round/3 character levels.
4 / 25-29 / Brilliant Sun Commander: 1/day as
a standard action, cast searing light as a Sp.
CL equals character level.
5 / 30 or higher / Dawnlord: 1/day
wreathe yourself in the divine energy of the sun, which acts as
a fire shield spell (warm only). CL equals character level.
Role-Playing Applications:
Favored Prestige Classes: The majority of clerics follow the path of the Morninglord of Lathander or the Radiant Servant class, while some also take levels in Sacred Exorcist or Divine Disciple. Paladins who take prestige classes generally go into the Shadow Striker class or the Hunter of the Dead. Fighters, Knights, and Rangers tend to take levels in Divine Champion or a prestige class that augments their abilities or offer spells such as the Divine Crusader.
Edit Note: I changed up the Soldier of Light ability to hide from undead instead of endure elements. It just fit the theme so much better.
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Edited by - Diffan on 30 Nov 2010 15:40:26
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Mr_Miscellany
Senior Scribe
545 Posts |
Posted - 29 Nov 2010 : 16:47:14
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Heh, too bad there's not a "like" button, because I like this organization. It's not too big, not too small and imminently malleable for a DM or player to use.
Would you say these guys lasted into the next century/post-Spellplague? If yes, do they know about the Eminence of Aurant?
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 29 Nov 2010 : 17:37:42
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Considering the mechanics of that look like goobly-gook to me, I would say that the class is written for 4e, which means the assumption should be made that they do exist in the 4e Realms. 
Although I'm well aware that many 4e rules players use the older Realms for their games.
EDIT: I can only judge it on the fluff, but great job as far as I can tell. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 29 Nov 2010 17:38:21 |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4491 Posts |
Posted - 29 Nov 2010 : 17:59:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Mr_Miscellany
Heh, too bad there's not a "like" button, because I like this organization. It's not too big, not too small and imminently malleable for a DM or player to use.
Would you say these guys lasted into the next century/post-Spellplague? If yes, do they know about the Eminence of Aurant?
Definitly! In my Realms, they've actually gained some popularity as Lathander transformed into Amaunator and became a little more militaristic. Since the Spellplague, they've changed their base of operations to Elturgard, on the out skirts of the region to combat the Night Baronry, Darkhold, and Shade forces in the area.
Their original base is still there, just North of Baldur's Gate and has become a great recruiting/traning ground for their organization. With the huge influx of people to BG, their ranks swelled and they've sent soldiers into the darkest reaches of Faerun to continue the battle against undead.
With the nation of Thay mostly comprised of Undead minions and creatures, the newest figurehead of The Radiant Crusade (Dawnlord Myranna Gilonnodel [LG female half-elf paladin of Amaunator]) is attempting to orchestrate an invasion plan to clear the nation of the undead blight. Such logistics make the task seem impossible so she sends emissaries to the Dragon Coast for more recruitment and the creation of splinter cells (much like how evil organizations operate). This, she hopes, will muster enough people for a full-blown attack on the Thay.
Additional communication with the Wiches of Rasheman and even the government of Anglarond have been met with success, but little has come of it other than talks. They fear any backlash if the invasion fails and their countries are in too fragile a state to fully invest in a war.
As for the Eminence of Aurant, little is known about them to the radiant Crusade save that they are powerful undead who claim a lot of territory. Skirmishes have occured between the Radiant Crusade and the Eminence of Aurant on several occasions, often with the Eminance of Aurant taking moderate losses and the Radiant Crusade retreating. Both organizations are still taking tolls of eachother but it's safe to say they are (or will soon become) dire enemies.
For some 4E adaptations, you can allow PCs to have the usual one-time affiliation score with the following changes:
* Trained in Religion +2
* Trained in Heal +2
* Can use an encounter power with the Heaing keyword +1
* Can use a daily power with the Healing keyword +2
* Has been undead or feats that mimic undead powers -8
For the Multiple Use affiliation score:
* Destorys a level 12 or higher non-minion undead creature +1/2 creature's level.
* Uses Raise Dead ritual +2
* Uses any power or ritual to create an undead creature -4
For the Powers associate with your rank, I'd give them the ability to use specific daily powers that are associated with the original v3.5 stuff (endure elemnts, searing light, etc..) but have the class use either Int, Wis, or Cha for the attack ability. |
Diffan's NPG Generator: FR NPC Generator
E6 Options: Epic 6 Campaign |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4491 Posts |
Posted - 29 Nov 2010 : 18:03:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Considering the mechanics of that look like goobly-gook to me, I would say that the class is written for 4e, which means the assumption should be made that they do exist in the 4e Realms.
Although I'm well aware that many 4e rules players use the older Realms for their games.
EDIT: I can only judge it on the fluff, but great job as far as I can tell.
All the stuff in the Original post is taken straight from v3.5 Organizations.
Your affilitaion score is pretty much dependant on your induction into the organization and how you work within that organization. As your score increases thorugh game-play and RP, you gain a higher rank and thus additonal powers. These powers are often aquired during a ceremony conducted by the closest's Cell's high priest, holy champion, or authority figure.
It's even listed in the PHB II, towards the back of the book with backround traits and such-and-such. |
Diffan's NPG Generator: FR NPC Generator
E6 Options: Epic 6 Campaign |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4491 Posts |
Posted - 29 Nov 2010 : 18:13:01
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As an example:
A human paladin 10 of Lathander who has 5 ranks in Religion and Heal (v3.5) would enter into the Radiant Crusade with a starting affiliation score of 7 (5 for half-level, 1 for 5 ranks in heal, 1 for 5 ranks in Knowledge [religion]) and he would attain the rank of llluminated. |
Diffan's NPG Generator: FR NPC Generator
E6 Options: Epic 6 Campaign |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 29 Nov 2010 : 18:54:56
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| Isn't there already a Kelemvor organization that does much the same thing? |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4491 Posts |
Posted - 29 Nov 2010 : 19:42:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Isn't there already a Kelemvor organization that does much the same thing?
There's the Knights of the Eternal Order, who's a knighthood dedicated to Kelemvore and much of the same thing that the Radiant Crusade is. Those knights, however, kill any or most undead they meet which might include Baelnorns and Archliches that carry on for good. I feel that knighthood is very black/white in their ideals where the Radiant Crusade is more a large organization that takes on multiple people of varying faiths.
But if someone wants to use the Organization/Guilds mechanics to create the Knights of the Eternal Order, I think that'd be pretty sweet. |
Diffan's NPG Generator: FR NPC Generator
E6 Options: Epic 6 Campaign |
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Mr_Miscellany
Senior Scribe
545 Posts |
Posted - 29 Nov 2010 : 19:50:31
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| Kick ass. I'm going to use your organization for a War Wizard write-up on the WotC Realms forums, if you don't mind. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36971 Posts |
Posted - 29 Nov 2010 : 19:54:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Isn't there already a Kelemvor organization that does much the same thing?
There's the Knights of the Eternal Order, who's a knighthood dedicated to Kelemvore and much of the same thing that the Radiant Crusade is. Those knights, however, kill any or most undead they meet which might include Baelnorns and Archliches that carry on for good. I feel that knighthood is very black/white in their ideals where the Radiant Crusade is more a large organization that takes on multiple people of varying faiths.
But if someone wants to use the Organization/Guilds mechanics to create the Knights of the Eternal Order, I think that'd be pretty sweet.
Actually, Ed has specifically noted that Kelemvor recognizes that baelnorn and archliches are not the same as other undead. They're still encouraged to move on, but he doesn't crusade against them. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4491 Posts |
Posted - 29 Nov 2010 : 20:04:23
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quote:
Originally posted by Mr_Miscellany
Kick ass. I'm going to use your organization for a War Wizard write-up on the WotC Realms forums, if you don't mind.
By all means, use whatever you like. I hope your refering to the A War Wizard a Day thread. I like that one!!
If you create the Organization to be used by the War Wizards, could you share it here as well?
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Actually, Ed has specifically noted that Kelemvor recognizes that baelnorn and archliches are not the same as other undead. They're still encouraged to move on, but he doesn't crusade against them.
Hmm...well that's interesting. Still, I feel there's significant differences between the Radiant Crusade organization and the Knighthood of the Eternal Order. For one, they're a lot bigger. Two, they incorporate multiple faiths. And three, there's room not only for those of a martial status but those of the arcane and divine as well. I'm not saying that KotEOs are all Paladins/Knights etc.. I just think they're more inclined to take those types of people over say a ranger who's favored enemy is Undead or a Scout who's used to traversing graveyards. |
Diffan's NPG Generator: FR NPC Generator
E6 Options: Epic 6 Campaign |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 29 Nov 2010 : 20:12:39
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It still all works though - Knights of the Eternal Order could be a small (independent) part of the larger organization.
Since this lore is written-up as a 'glimpse into the future' (for many of us), it is easy to deconstruct it for a circa 3e game and have them just starting out, and the Eternal Order has not yet merged with them (which would be happening in the background from 1375-1385, I figure).
In fact, the Spellplague - and all the resultant Undead created by the magical chaos - could be why the organization decided to go 'more formal' and become better-organized, as opposed to a loosely organized group of Undead-hunters from various faiths (as they started out).
This is really beginning to grow on me - if we bring the Eminence of Araunt into it, that group could have been the catalyst for the Radiant Crusade to become a Formal Religious Order.
A non-sectarian Fraternity of Undead Hunters, welcomed (and supplied) by many different churches in the Realms. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 29 Nov 2010 20:16:24 |
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Knight of the Gate
Senior Scribe
USA
624 Posts |
Posted - 29 Nov 2010 : 21:00:21
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| I've been running a game for YEARS that incorporates a pair of Kelemvorite players (a Doomguide and a Paladin) and have actually worked PHBII stats for the KotEO. Give me a few minutes to dig them up and polish them a bit (I use a handful of simple but pervasive house rules that modify affiliations), and I'll post them here. |
How can life be so bountiful, providing such sublime rewards for mediocrity? -Umberto Ecco |
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Mr_Miscellany
Senior Scribe
545 Posts |
Posted - 29 Nov 2010 : 21:40:59
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quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
By all means, use whatever you like. I hope your refering to the A War Wizard a Day thread. I like that one!!
If you create the Organization to be used by the War Wizards, could you share it here as well?
Thanks Diffan. Yep I'm refering to the War Wizard thread (glad you like it).
I'm not creating organizations though. I just need someone(s) from The Radiant Crusade to get persecuted by a War Wizards. This also gives me a chance to throw another link to Candlekeep into a post on the WotC forums and show fans that your work isn't just limited to what you post on those forums.
The more humans here, the better. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 29 Nov 2010 : 22:00:00
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I'm almost inclined to say the opposite is true - they appear to have even less activity then we have, of late. 
So sad - they were some great forums in their heydey... I really miss those heated arguments with Lord Karsus and others. (Hi Misc. )
Some real good lore came out of those debates - I learned quite a lot. No fan digs deeper then the one trying to prove his/her point.
When CK was down yesterday, I posted there, and was surprised that I was (mildly) attacked for having a 'pro-4e sentiment'.
Weird. 
Anyhow, I would love to see more cross-forum chatter - both forums could use a little shot in the arm right now. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 29 Nov 2010 22:01:27 |
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Knight of the Gate
Senior Scribe
USA
624 Posts |
Posted - 29 Nov 2010 : 22:00:18
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Knights of the Eternal Order
Symbol- (Similar to the holy symbol of Kelemvor) A skeletal arm and hand, upright, gripping a bastard sword by the blade- from the point and pommel of the blade depend scale pans.
Members- the Eternal order is small, numbering no more than a few dozen members at most. The Order is based in Ireabor, where it maintains a Chapter House. All members of the Eternal Order are clerics, doomguides, Paladins, and others in service to the Judge of the Dead.
Allies and Enemies- The Order has excellent relations with the Church of Kelemvor at large, and can freely call on healing and basic equipment at any Kelemvorite temple. The Order has a friendly rivalry with the much larger and better-funded Order of the Aster, and individuals of each group have been known to assist one another on occasion.
The foes of the Eternal Order are evil undead across Faerun; in particular, they have earned the ire of the Night King's Court in Westgate, and the followers of Orcus in the Bloodstone lands. Several dark faiths are whispered to be banding together to wipe the E.O. from the face of Faerun before it becomes more established.
Scale 3 (small group, newly founded)
Membership is open to any follower of Kelemvor with the desire and capacity for fighting undead.
Criterion::Affiliation Score mod.
One Time only
Character level bonus::1/2 Character level
Knowledge (religion), 5 ranks::+1*
Knowledge (religion), 10 ranks::+2*
Knowledge (religion), 15 ranks::+4*
Ability to turn undead::+2
Ability to cast undeath to death::+2
Ability to Smite Evil or undead::+2
Undead as favored enemy:: Same as favored enemy bonus
Ability to Lay on hands::+1
Owning an undead-destroying magical weapon (mace of disruption, undead bane weapon, etc.)::+2
*apply highest bonus only (non cumulative)
Ongoing bonuses
Destroy undead creature (CR8 or greater):: +1/2 creature's HD
Participate in Quest to cleanse a city or site of undead taint:: +1 to +5 (DM's discretion)
Convince undead creature to 'move on to the afterlife'/ assist undead creature in doing so:: + creature's HD
Found a new Chapterhouse::+6
Recruit a new member of level 5 or greater::+1/2 recruit's ECL
Failing to destroy an undead creature::-2
Consorting with undead::-8
Animating/summoning/creating undead::-10
breaking tenets of the faith of Kelemvor::-1 to -5 (DM's discretion)
Titles, benefits and duties: As you ascend the ranks of the Order, you learn more effective methods of fighting the unliving, as well as gaining the esteem as the Order and the Church of Kelemvor as a whole.
Rank::Affiliation score::Title::Benefits and Duties
0::4 or lower::None
1::5-10::Squire::+4 to all saves to resist level or ability drain or damage caused by undead creatures' special attacks; gain access to Knight of the Eternal Order Substitution levels
2::11-18::Knight-Postulant/Confessor:: +1 to hit and damage all creatures with the Undead type; call on up to 200 g.p./month of healing/services/equipment from the Church or Order
3::19-23::Knight of the Order/Chaplain of the Order::gain a +2 on all Turning Checks and Turning damage rolls; call on up to (1d2) Knights-Postulants, clerics, or lay-followers of Kelemvor for aid of levels 2-7 (d6+1) for up to 1 tenday of every year
4::24-30::Knight-Captain/Knight-Chaplain:: Gain either the Extra Smiting or Extra Turning Feat as a bonus feat. Call on followers (as above) for up to 3 tendays a year.
5::31+::Knight-Champion/Knight-Patriarch::Gain Immunity to charm/dominate spells and special abilities of undead creatures; Call upon up to 1,000 g.p./month of aid from the Church or Order
Role-Playing Options: Prestige classes favored amongst the Order include Doomguide (for Clerics), Pious Templar, Divine Champion, and Hunter of the Dead (for Paladins, fighters, Rangers, and Knights). Arcane casters have not yet made their mark in the order, but there is no bar to their membership.
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How can life be so bountiful, providing such sublime rewards for mediocrity? -Umberto Ecco |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 29 Nov 2010 : 22:07:25
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Very nice (both of you).
I will be adapting some of this to my HB conversion.
I'm seeing some sort of connection between the two groups - they are connected through Jergal (The Dusk Lord), but I just can't wrap my head around what that connection is yet... anyone?
"The Radiant Crusade against the Dusk"... something along those lines... although Jergal isn't exactly 'pro'-Undead either. Perhaps both groups are united under Jergal's Banner?
Now I'm thinking about that other order of Knights that fight Dracoliches that Jergal is affiliated with... |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 29 Nov 2010 22:13:37 |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3290 Posts |
Posted - 29 Nov 2010 : 22:49:20
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This scroll blew up quick!! |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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Knight of the Gate
Senior Scribe
USA
624 Posts |
Posted - 29 Nov 2010 : 23:05:29
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A little background on the Knights of the Eternal Order- since the Order is left as a bit of a tabula rasa in printed lore, I've fleshed them out a bit for my ongoing game.
The Eternal Order (simply The Order to members and worshipers of Kelemvor who are aware of their existence) is a loosely-organized group of Undead-slayers dedicated to the worship of the Judge of the Damned. Specially trained and highly motivated, The Order is not well-known amongst the common folk of Faerun, nor even amongst rank-and-file worshipers of Kelemvor. There are whispers amongst the priesthood that the Lord of the Dead has spoken to certain grim warrior-priests and Paladins of the faith to found an elite group dedicated to the eradication of powerful undead threats. While The Order is not well-known amongst Faerun's living populace, its fame is growing steadily amongst the unliving, who may soon set aside differences to band together and wipe this threat to all of them out before it grows even bolder and more deadly.
Organizationally, The Order is very loosely structured, having no real central command authority: Individual Knights investigate rumors of powerful undead threats (with much information coming from the Church of Kelemvor), and if they feel that they cannot handle the threat alone, or with the aid of the local Church, they call in assistance from all available Knights, as well as nearby temples. While Knights-Postulant and above-ranked members are free to act alone, they do defer to the judgement of senior Knights, and often see the mere suggestions of senior members of the Order as dictates. There has not always been a Knight-Champion (or head) of The Order: It was founded without one, and is currently without one. The former Knight-Champion of the Order (Dame Sibyl Amarantha) actually left her post to found a new knightly order (the Knights in Grey) and her departure has left the order without a truly powerful voice in Church hierarchy to defend and champion it.
The closest thing to a leader that the Order has as a whole is probably the 'Hen Mother': Knight-Chaplain Heldrick Valdorn (LN middle-aged Chondathan m Clr8/Dgd2 of Kelemvor) abbot of the Chapter House in Ireabor. Valdorn is a wise, retiring man of middling years, rarely straying from the Chapterhouse. He was once a moderately prosperous lapidary in Saerloon, before his whole extended family came under the mental domination of a vampire. He languished for over a decade in that state until the vampire tired of his games in Saerloon, turned Valdorn's wife and daughters into vampire-spawn and left the man to deal with the shell his life had become (he had compelled Heldrick to engage in dishonest business practices which left him in trouble with the law and ostracized from his community. Heldrick left Saerloon just ahead of the law and the hired knives of those whom he'd defrauded.) He now rarely strays beyond the doors of the chapterhouse, tending to the wounds of those members of the Order who come to Ireabor for aid, as well as using his magic to teleport (via the Travel Domain) Order members to where they are sorely needed. He does not hate the undead, knowing that many of them were forced into that condition(even as was his family) and strives to encourage his fellows to attempt to redeem as many undead as they safely can. He is a repository of knowledge, not only of undead in general, but of specific powerful undead in the Sea of Fallen Stars, the North, and Sword coast north regions. He is beginning to suspect the existence of an impossibly ancient and powerful undead presence beneath the High Moor.
More to come later tonight, folks... if anyone's interested in reading it. |
How can life be so bountiful, providing such sublime rewards for mediocrity? -Umberto Ecco |
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Mr_Miscellany
Senior Scribe
545 Posts |
Posted - 29 Nov 2010 : 23:23:24
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Questions for Diffan and Knight of the Gate: Just how militaristic, zealous and motivated are the two Orders you’ve created?
For example, if members of each of your Orders were in the process of uncovering a network of portals that evil undead use, such that they stumbled upon and through a one-way portal into a crypt where some seriously nasty undead were found and destroyed by your guys, then were challenged by guards of the crypt that came running down the stairs to see what all the commotion was about (and who are in the service to a major noble house of Cormyr), would typical members of your order state:
“We are in the service of the greater good. Show us the way out and do not seek to hinder our exit! If you do so we will draw arms against you!”
or
“These guards could be in league with the dead or under their control. We must determine the situation and slay any who have been corrupted before our holy work is complete!”
…or would they content themselves that all is well simply because the undead have been destroyed, parley with the guards and politely as possible explain themselves to whoever is in charge of the noble mansion the Order members just inadvertently invaded?
I’m just checking to see how gung-ho-at-all-costs extreme point of view they might be. Sort of a “we’re going to have to burn the mansion down to cleanse this place of the dead. That’s not the same thing as arson,” type of attitude.
Could you give some examples of how each Order instructs its members (if at all) to handle the concept of other people’s property vs. the need to get in and destroy evil undead?
Have you considered if either order has a reputation or history of going too far?
Thank you! :)
[EDIT: woops, just saw Knight's reply.] |
Edited by - Mr_Miscellany on 29 Nov 2010 23:25:32 |
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Knight of the Gate
Senior Scribe
USA
624 Posts |
Posted - 29 Nov 2010 : 23:26:08
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Very nice (both of you).
I will be adapting some of this to my HB conversion.
I'm seeing some sort of connection between the two groups - they are connected through Jergal (The Dusk Lord), but I just can't wrap my head around what that connection is yet... anyone?
"The Radiant Crusade against the Dusk"... something along those lines... although Jergal isn't exactly 'pro'-Undead either. Perhaps both groups are united under Jergal's Banner?
Now I'm thinking about that other order of Knights that fight Dracoliches that Jergal is affiliated with...
Thanks, MT! And where the Jergal/Dracolich order is concerned, I think you're thinking of the Order of the Eternal Wyrm (or something... I cannot recall right now). I wonder if the Eternal Order was inspired by its older cousin? |
How can life be so bountiful, providing such sublime rewards for mediocrity? -Umberto Ecco |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 29 Nov 2010 : 23:31:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Isn't there already a Kelemvor organization that does much the same thing?
There's the Knights of the Eternal Order, who's a knighthood dedicated to Kelemvore and much of the same thing that the Radiant Crusade is. Those knights, however, kill any or most undead they meet which might include Baelnorns and Archliches that carry on for good. I feel that knighthood is very black/white in their ideals where the Radiant Crusade is more a large organization that takes on multiple people of varying faiths.
But if someone wants to use the Organization/Guilds mechanics to create the Knights of the Eternal Order, I think that'd be pretty sweet.
Actually, Ed has specifically noted that Kelemvor recognizes that baelnorn and archliches are not the same as other undead. They're still encouraged to move on, but he doesn't crusade against them.
Indeed. As noted in Cormanthyr -- "Baelnorn, the willing undead elves, are the elven equivalent of liches, though they are hardly as disturbingly “wrong” as the corrupt undead and they do not project the fearsome aura of those wicked creatures."
Thus, they're kind of a special case when it comes to considering Kelemvor's attitude against liches. In fact, perhaps the individual Kelemvorite might need to seek the advice of one higher in the clergy in order to ascertain how best to proceed when encountering such elven undead, rather than attack it outright.
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Mr_Miscellany
Senior Scribe
545 Posts |
Posted - 29 Nov 2010 : 23:36:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Knight of the Gate
More to come later tonight, folks... if anyone's interested in reading it.
Yes please! Especially any NPCs that are on the extreme edge of the order. |
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Knight of the Gate
Senior Scribe
USA
624 Posts |
Posted - 29 Nov 2010 : 23:43:42
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Isn't there already a Kelemvor organization that does much the same thing?
There's the Knights of the Eternal Order, who's a knighthood dedicated to Kelemvore and much of the same thing that the Radiant Crusade is. Those knights, however, kill any or most undead they meet which might include Baelnorns and Archliches that carry on for good. I feel that knighthood is very black/white in their ideals where the Radiant Crusade is more a large organization that takes on multiple people of varying faiths.
But if someone wants to use the Organization/Guilds mechanics to create the Knights of the Eternal Order, I think that'd be pretty sweet.
Actually, Ed has specifically noted that Kelemvor recognizes that baelnorn and archliches are not the same as other undead. They're still encouraged to move on, but he doesn't crusade against them.
Indeed. As noted in Cormanthyr -- "Baelnorn, the willing undead elves, are the elven equivalent of liches, though they are hardly as disturbingly “wrong” as the corrupt undead and they do not project the fearsome aura of those wicked creatures."
Thus, they're kind of a special case when it comes to considering Kelemvor's attitude against liches. In fact, perhaps the individual Kelemvorite might need to seek the advice of one higher in the clergy in order to ascertain how best to proceed when encountering such elven undead, rather than attack it outright.
FWIW, in my game, when the PC clergy prayed for guidance on the subject of baelnorn, and were informed (via dream messages) that they were not to be disturbed unless they interfered with the Church of Kelemvor directly. Kelemvor had reached a pact with Shehanine Moonbow (elven goddess of the dead) that allowed the baelnorn to operate without interference from Kelemvorites. |
How can life be so bountiful, providing such sublime rewards for mediocrity? -Umberto Ecco |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36971 Posts |
Posted - 30 Nov 2010 : 02:46:02
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Ah, found the relevant quote! 
quote:
No, no, gomez! "PokéBall" is what * I * do to YOU.
Ahem.
Realms relevance? Oh, yes ...
bradhunter, Knight of the Gate, and other interested scribes: Ed has confirmed that his view still stands: Kelemvor (and by his instruction, his clergy) ignore baelnorn. That is, they do not treat them as undead to be destroyed, and deal with them only as necessary; polite avoidance and minimal contact is best (and being as Ed is the creator of baelnorn, he's by definition the go-to expert on them).
According to Ed, archliches are regarded as undead to be aided in achieving their task/mission and then cajoled to "pass on" into true death rather than hanging around; archliches who disagree, or who have established "unfulfillable" or really long-term tasks or missions for themselves, are to be dealt with on a case-by-case basis (i.e. Kelemvor, working through his servants as proxies, wants to truly understand the motivation and natures of each individual archlich before deciding on a policy towards each particular archlich).
I grinned at that and sent Ed a "weasel, weasel, weasel" tease, and he replied:
Weasel, of course. :} Yet on the other hand: why not? Herein lies the sort of roleplaying that should be at the heart and core of every long-running D&D campaign. So long as the DM arranges it so that players, through their characters, have a chance to govern/substantially influence outcomes, rather than being reduced to spectators of the DM's acting out events.
So saith Ed. Here endeth the latest word from the Greenwood.
love to all,
THO
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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 30 Nov 2010 02:46:56 |
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Knight of the Gate
Senior Scribe
USA
624 Posts |
Posted - 30 Nov 2010 : 04:07:53
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More on members of the Eternal Order...
Dame Sibyl Amarantha (LG aasimar f Pal9/Pious Templar9)was born to uncertain parents in the Barony of Bloodstone in Damara- she was one of many orphans of the conflict with the self-styled 'Witch King', Zhengyi of Vaasa, and was raised by the clergy of the Crying God in Bloodstone gate. Growing up in such a community, she marked two things especially well: The damage caused by the unliving abominations created by Zhengyi and the Cult of Orcus, and the valor and self-assurance of the Illmateri holy warriors who sallied forth to give battle to such horrors when they arose. Given the obvious trace of celestial heritage she bore (with her pearlescent eyes and stunning beauty, even the simple hermit-priests knew that she was more than mortal) it is perhaps not surprising that she became a holy warrior. What is surprising is that she eschewed her Ilmateri upbringing to join the nascent church of Kelemvor. It was all down to the dreams. Sibyl had long wondered what sort of people her parents were, and what had become of them- shortly after the apotheosis of Kelemvor Lyonsbane, young Sibyl began dreaming of the death of her parents at the unkind claws of ravening undead. Within a few months, she was a shell of her former self, eating little and sleeping less, and the Ilmateri clerics who'd raised her despaired. Not until a wandering priest of the Judge of the Damned came to Bloodstone gate did these dreams cease, only to be replaced with dreams of young Sibyl, sword in hand and the holy symbol of kelemvor upon her shield, defending and saving her parents from their peril. Upon seeing that symbol around the adventuring priest's neck, Sibyl's future was sealed.
She went on to become (along with her foster-brother Gregor)one of the two foremost champions of the faith in the Cold Lands and beyond. With her foster-brother and their coterie of friends, she smashed the Vault of the Gnashing Teeth below Vaasa; went on to battle the Cult of Orcus resurgent; fought a rising necromantic menace in the form of an uncovered Netherese arifact; and defended the lands awarded to her by a grateful king Dragonsbane against many fell foes.
During this time, she was recruited by the Eternal Order, and rose swiftly through its ranks. Indeed, her valor and spreading fame did more than a little to swell the ranks of the Order. By the time she had been awarded land and title by the King of Damara, she was risen to be the Champion of the Order. During her tenure as champion, she (along with Archpriest Gregor Amarantha [LN Damaran m Clr7/Doomguide10], her foster-brother) forged the first relic of the faith of Kelemvor: Halcyon- the Sword of Rest, so named because it sends undead back to the sleep of true death, and defends the spirits of the departed from ravaging tanar'ri. She was not long in this exalted position, however- her duties in her new lands, as well as a growing concern that the undead were not the chief threat to the Kelemvorite faith (a belief she picked up fighting the legions of Orcus) caused her to step down from the rank of Champion. At the insistence of all of the senior members of the Order, she retains the rank of Knight-Captain, and were she to call on any of the Order, they would drop all but the most urgent business to come to her aid.
In recent months, she has been given signs and portents from the Judge of the Dead, confirming her beliefs that the tanar'ri are the real threat, not only to Kelemvor, but to all Faerun that she has long feared they were. She has openly formed a new knightly order to combat this threat: The Knights in Grey are an order dedicated to ridding the Demonlands of all demonic taint. Unlike the Eternal Order, it is not entirely Kelemvorite in composition, but they do form the preponderance of leadership positions.
Sorry that she's not the 'extremist' you were asking for, Mr.Misc., but she's the only other member whose story I have in memory. If anyone's interested, I'd be happy to give the Knights in Grey the 'organizations' treatment that I gave the Eternal Order earlier. Point in fact, I enjoy doing this, so if anyone wants to request any Realms organization, I'd be happy to do it! |
How can life be so bountiful, providing such sublime rewards for mediocrity? -Umberto Ecco |
Edited by - Knight of the Gate on 30 Nov 2010 04:24:32 |
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Mr_Miscellany
Senior Scribe
545 Posts |
Posted - 30 Nov 2010 : 05:01:47
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| That's cool man, thank you VERY much for sharing. OK, question time: can I use some of this for (possibly) a 4E write up of mine? The write up would be 4E and may not include much on either Order. |
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Knight of the Gate
Senior Scribe
USA
624 Posts |
Posted - 30 Nov 2010 : 05:19:40
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quote:
Originally posted by Mr_Miscellany
That's cool man, thank you VERY much for sharing. OK, question time: can I use some of this for (possibly) a 4E write up of mine? The write up would be 4E and may not include much on either Order.
Knock yourself out, my friend. |
How can life be so bountiful, providing such sublime rewards for mediocrity? -Umberto Ecco |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4491 Posts |
Posted - 30 Nov 2010 : 16:04:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Mr_Miscellany
Questions for Diffan and Knight of the Gate: Just how militaristic, zealous and motivated are the two Orders you’ve created?
For example, if members of each of your Orders were in the process of uncovering a network of portals that evil undead use, such that they stumbled upon and through a one-way portal into a crypt where some seriously nasty undead were found and destroyed by your guys, then were challenged by guards of the crypt that came running down the stairs to see what all the commotion was about (and who are in the service to a major noble house of Cormyr), would typical members of your order state:
“We are in the service of the greater good. Show us the way out and do not seek to hinder our exit! If you do so we will draw arms against you!”
or
“These guards could be in league with the dead or under their control. We must determine the situation and slay any who have been corrupted before our holy work is complete!”
…or would they content themselves that all is well simply because the undead have been destroyed, parley with the guards and politely as possible explain themselves to whoever is in charge of the noble mansion the Order members just inadvertently invaded?
I’m just checking to see how gung-ho-at-all-costs extreme point of view they might be. Sort of a “we’re going to have to burn the mansion down to cleanse this place of the dead. That’s not the same thing as arson,” type of attitude.
Could you give some examples of how each Order instructs its members (if at all) to handle the concept of other people’s property vs. the need to get in and destroy evil undead?
Have you considered if either order has a reputation or history of going too far?
Thank you! :)
[EDIT: woops, just saw Knight's reply.]
For the Radiant Crusade, they're fairly known in the general area of the Western Heartlands, and often when their insignia/tabard/colors are seen people know that some undead menance is possibly about. If members of the Radiant Crusade were in the situation you described above, they'd be more likely to parley and/or find a non-violent solution to the situation. They will, however, protect themselves and property if the guards require them to give up any equipment, weapons, or magical items because the Radiant Crusade highly cherish and properly maintain their equipment.
A more zealot group of the organization would probably attempt to take control of the situation (noted above) aggressively. This would be to gauge their reactions and test their opponent's resolve. Any who interfere with the Radiant Cruasde's cause is considerd an opponent to these zealot crusaders.
For the property vs. need to destroy undead question, the Radiant Crusade advises (on most counts) that communication is key with the local authorities. They don't want to cause trouble where possible allies exist. If local government is unwilling to cooperate with agents of the RC, then they take more drastic measures. The undead "must" be destroyed and when all diplomatic proceedings fail, often Might makes Right tactics are used.
This is a rare event in the organization's history since most of the people involved are more than willing to see the undead destroyed. But in a city-like setting, I could see people try to get in the way using laws or politics. A member of the RC would exhaust all options before resulting to blatant disregard of the laws but sometimes even the good crops are cut out with the blight. |
Diffan's NPG Generator: FR NPC Generator
E6 Options: Epic 6 Campaign |
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ZeshinX
Learned Scribe
Canada
210 Posts |
Posted - 30 Nov 2010 : 16:18:24
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There's an organization in my campaign (though at present, it's more of a cult) that some might find interesting. It's not quite organized as such, but it is rapidly growing. My campaign is set in 1373 DR, 3.5/Pathfinder rules.
It's a group that speaks wherever they are permitted to about the fact that people need not worship the deities, that they should save their faith for each other and rely on themselves for salvation. The head of this cult, known only as The Apostate, believes that the gods care for their worshippers only for the fact that the more worship they receive, the more power they gain, and are otherwise generally unconcerned (and uncaring) with their mortal flock.
The Apostate had travelled across Faerun and Kara-Tur (with a great deal of time spent in Tabot) and came across a great deal of lore concerning the deities (both the Faerunian pantheons and the Celestial Beauracracy), which included deific manifestations on Toril, the legacy of the Time of Troubles, divine artifacts, and histories of empires known for their distrust or outright hatred of anything divine (like the ancient Imaskari).
No one knows (not even those close to The Apostate) the origins of this drive to convince mortals that deific worship is not needed, though common rumour is that at some point, The Apostate was a devout worshipper and at some point felt betrayed by their faith or deity (or, as most believe, both).
The Apostate tells those willing to listen that mortals need not fear retribution for their lack of worship. That the deities lose power if they are not worshipped and would simply fade from existence. Obviously there are many flaws to this, and most feel The Apostate is simply yet another "divine lunatic", but many think the idea of relying more on one's self and others would breed a much stronger community that need not rely on the fickle nature of a deity's (or it's clergy's) whims (so far this has mostly found root with the downtrodden and poor, but it has caught the attention of some nobles).
The Apostate has surrounded themself with individuals they feel exemplify this belief. Those whose abilities rely on personal or natural ability, with no connection to the divine. The Apostate themself is a wielder of psionic ability, while those closest to "him" are monks, psychics, warriors, and a warlock (who is rarely seen). |
"...because despite the best advice of those who know what they are talking about, other people insist on doing the most massively stupid things."
-Galen, technomage |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4491 Posts |
Posted - 30 Nov 2010 : 16:18:29
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Here's the NPC who started up the Radiant Crusade.
Tarious Lydamar; CR 12
Male Damaran crusader 12 (Lathander)
LG medium humanoid (human)
Init +2; Senses Listen +1, Spot +1
Languages Chondathan, Common, Damaran
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AC 26, touch 13, flat-footed 24
(+11 armor, +3 shield, +2 Dex, +1 deflection)
hp 101 (12 HD)
Fort +13, Ref +8, Will +7; zealous surge
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Speed 20 ft. (4 squares); base 30 ft.
Melee +1 everbright undead bane heavy mace +19/+14/+9 (1d8+7 plus 2d6 aginst undead/x3)
Ranged mwk composite shortbow (Str +3) +15/+10/+5 (1d6+3/x3)
Base Atk +12; Grp +20
Atk Options flaming weapon 1/day (4 rounds), furious counterstrike, smite 3/day (+5 attack, +12 damage), steely reslove 20
Combat Gear 4 potions of cure moderate wounds, 4 daylight pellets, 2 flasks of holy water
Spell-Like Abilities (CL 12th):
1/day--fire shield (warm only), hide from undead, searing light
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Maneuvers and Stances (IL 12th):
Stances-iron guard's glare (1st), martial spirit (1st), tactics of the wolf (3rd)
Strikes-bonecrusher (3rd), burning blade (1st), charging minotaur (1st), divine surge* (4th), elder mountain hammer* (5th), fan the flames* (3rd)leading the attack (1st), radiant charge* (5th), rallying strike* (6th), white raven strike* (4th)
Counter-shield block (2nd)
Other-order from chaos* (6th)
Disciplines-Desert Wind, Devoted Spirit, Stone Dragon, White Raven
=====================================================================
Abilities Str 22, Dex 14, Con 16, Int 10, Wis 12, Cha 20
Feats Extra Smite, Improved Bull Rush, Martial Study (burning blade), Martial Study (fan the flames), Power Attack, Shock Trooper
Skills Balance +11 (+7 in armor), Concentration +8, Craft (weaponsmithing) +14, Diplomacy +15, Intimidate +14, Jump +11 (+7 in armor), Knowledge (history) +2, Knowledge (religion) +5 (+7 reguarding undead), Martial Lore +5, Ride +9, Tumble +10 (+6 in armor)
Possessions combat gear plus angel-helm, +2 mithral full plate, Radiant Beacon (+1 everbright undead bane heavy mace), +1 heavy steel shield of daylight, cloak of Charisma +4, armbands of might, gloves of Dexterity +2, boots of the battle charger, vest of resistance +2, ring of protection +1, belt of Strength +4
=====================================================================
Furious Counterstrike (Ex): Tarious can channel his pain into a boiling rage that gives him a +4 to attack and damage for 1 round if he has twenty points or more in his delayed damage pool.
Indomitable Soul (Ex): Tarious adds his Charisma bonus to his Will saves. This ability does not stack with a paladin’s divine grace ability.
Smite Evil (Ex): Tarious can smite evil three times per day. He adds a +5 to his attack and +12 to his damage rolls.
Steely Resolve (Ex): Tarious has a delayed damage pool that can soak up to 20 points of damage every round. At the end of the round, the damage goes through and it resets back to 0.
Zealous Surge (Ex): Once per day, Tarious can opt to re-roll a saving throw. You must abide by the result of the new, second saving throw, even if it’s lower than the first. You must decide after you roll and before the DM answers.
=====================================================================
Description Tarious is the older half-brother of Tyerion Lydamar (LG aasimar pal 6 [Red Knight]) and leader of the Radiant Crusade. He is an imposing man, standing over six feet tall (seeming more so with his plate armor on) and has blue eyes as bright as the sky. His stern demeanor isonly sofened by children and when in communion with his deity. Since starting the Radiant Crusade, he's been forging alliances with other like minded orders and religions like the Triad and Selune. The Crusade's stronghold is a fortified keep known as the Citadel of Dawn, which is located just East of Candlekeep.
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Edited by - Diffan on 01 Dec 2010 04:37:23 |
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Topic |
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Organizations in the Realms
