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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
 Posted - 14 Oct 2010 : 10:03:57
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Haha! You had to open this scroll now... just as I was leaving for work. I'll have to tinker along with it later. 
[At which point, I'll try to list all the opera-references I have compiled.] |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
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skychrome
Senior Scribe
713 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2010 : 02:53:28
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Well, the only opera that comes to my mind is the one in Selgaunt, as featured in the short story in Halls of Stormweather in the Sembia series, but this one has already been mentioned by The Sage.
Everything else I have read so far have rather been costume parties with music such as featured in City of Ravens or Downshadow, but none of that comes close to opera. |
"You make an intriguing offer, one that is very tempting. It would seem that I have little alternative than to answer thusly: DISINTEGRATE!" Vaarsuvius, Order of the Stick 625 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2010 : 04:53:16
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We know there was an opera about Zrie Prakis and Cassana... And in Tymora's Luck, we get several character's commentary on opera -- and not just Realms characters! My fave, though, remains the Fizban quote that didn't make the book:
quote:
Greetings,
Imagine my surprise that the use of the opera quotes in "Tymora's Luck" would kick off a firestorm of discussion, particularly since Raistlin's quote was one of the few that said something NICE about Opera.
A bit of explanation. When Kate and I started in on Tymora's Luck, we had the idea of being a big Wagnerian sort of to-do, very Sturm and Drang (Now I'll get letters for exploiting Sturm). I should say, very operetic. So we divided up the story much like an opera. Then, as a lark, we contacted all the other original creators for quotes by their characters on opera - Bob, Margaret, Ed, Elaine, Zeb, and Tracy (They're thanked in the book, but thanks again, folks). Rather than make up words for Raistlin, we went to the source and asked MARGARET for a bon mot from our gold-skinned friend.
Anyway, all the quotes were used but one. The editor thought one particular quote was not appropriate for either the Realms or Krynn. Tracy did it, and for the first time anywhere, I will reveal it - The Hickman-written Opera Quote, from our favorite forgetful wizard:
"There is no greater fan of Opera than I! Opera is insightful! Opera explores the human condition! Opera's weight has fluctuated from time to time, but I think that is all part of the fun of watching her. Opera is a powerful force in media. I never miss a show even if the subject is "My dwarven lover hates that I'm an Elf, on the next Opera!" Opera may be an acquired taste (just like chicken) but I'll be her fan so long as her ratings are still good."--Fizban the Fabulous
Have fun, guys.
Jeff G.
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2010 : 05:11:51
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| (The opera/musical titles I suggested in the previous thread were not canon at all, just impromptu jokes.) |
[/Ayrik] |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2010 : 06:02:31
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| I've never met the man, nor any of the other prominent names and creators, seriously. I just have a sick mind, that's all. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2010 : 06:09:29
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quote:
Originally posted by skychrome
Well, the only opera that comes to my mind is the one in Selgaunt, as featured in the short story in Halls of Stormweather in the Sembia series, but this one has already been mentioned by The Sage.
You're referring to "Visions of Chaos" -- a lost opera of Guerren Bloodquill.
quote:
Everything else I have read so far have rather been costume parties with music such as featured in City of Ravens or Downshadow, but none of that comes close to opera.
Lord of Stormweather has a few bits too.
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2010 : 06:10:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
We know there was an opera about Zrie Prakis and Cassana... And in Tymora's Luck, we get several character's commentary on opera -- and not just Realms characters! My fave, though, remains the Fizban quote that didn't make the book:
quote:
Greetings,
Imagine my surprise that the use of the opera quotes in "Tymora's Luck" would kick off a firestorm of discussion, particularly since Raistlin's quote was one of the few that said something NICE about Opera.
A bit of explanation. When Kate and I started in on Tymora's Luck, we had the idea of being a big Wagnerian sort of to-do, very Sturm and Drang (Now I'll get letters for exploiting Sturm). I should say, very operetic. So we divided up the story much like an opera. Then, as a lark, we contacted all the other original creators for quotes by their characters on opera - Bob, Margaret, Ed, Elaine, Zeb, and Tracy (They're thanked in the book, but thanks again, folks). Rather than make up words for Raistlin, we went to the source and asked MARGARET for a bon mot from our gold-skinned friend.
Anyway, all the quotes were used but one. The editor thought one particular quote was not appropriate for either the Realms or Krynn. Tracy did it, and for the first time anywhere, I will reveal it - The Hickman-written Opera Quote, from our favorite forgetful wizard:
"There is no greater fan of Opera than I! Opera is insightful! Opera explores the human condition! Opera's weight has fluctuated from time to time, but I think that is all part of the fun of watching her. Opera is a powerful force in media. I never miss a show even if the subject is "My dwarven lover hates that I'm an Elf, on the next Opera!" Opera may be an acquired taste (just like chicken) but I'll be her fan so long as her ratings are still good."--Fizban the Fabulous
Have fun, guys.
Jeff G.
And for archival purposes, I'll note that the above info comes directly from here:- http://www.dlnexus.com/features/articles/14405.aspx |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2010 : 06:52:59
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Re: Tracy - It's good to see authors can have a little OOC fun, it's not all musty tomes of sacred lore. But chicken is an acquired taste? 
I'm beginning to sense that I'll just have to create my own famous opera houses.
btw, I don't know a thing about the lifestyle of these performing groups ... are they typically locals or travelling gypsies or what? |
[/Ayrik] |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2010 : 07:01:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Arik
Re: Tracy - It's good to see authors can have a little OOC fun, it's not all musty tomes of sacred lore. But chicken is an acquired taste?
I'm beginning to sense that I'll just have to create my own famous opera houses.
btw, I don't know a thing about the lifestyle of these performing groups ... are they typically locals or travelling gypsies or what?
It really does depend on the composition of the group. I've noted references from the Realmslore which suggest both are possible. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
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Edited by - The Sage on 16 Oct 2010 07:01:49 |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2010 : 07:02:30
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| I'd imagine that it's much like in RL- that is, most large cities would have their own local performers, while smaller traveling troupes would go around to smaller venues. Kind of like ho Cats used to have permanent shows in a few cities, and a touring show that would visit others. Many cities now have a permanent opera house, with a roster of shows it presents. Try doing something like that. (Does this make me a musical nerd?) |
The Goddess is alive, and magic is afoot.
"Where Science ends, Magic begins" -Spiral, Uncanny X-Men #491
"You idiots! You've captured their STUNT doubles!" -Spaceballs
Lothir's character background/stats: http://forum.candlekeep.com/pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=5469
My stories:
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2010 : 09:09:20
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Ah well, my important NPC, Thespis of Thay, Retired Red Wizard and Reknowned Sage of Opera and Fine Theatre (plus his ridiculously overlarge entourage) will just have to be moved around a little more than I'd initially planned. A lot of extra travel for my players ... they'll hate me.
I have found the following canon references in my books -
FR3/Empires of the Sands (1e/2e)
p.10 - Eshpurta in Amn has an extensive arts and culture program, with a fine opera and several handsomely-paid "town artists".
FR7/Hall of Heroes (2e)
p.63-64,93-94 - Cassana's cruelty/insanity is so legendary that a popular opera has been written about her and Zrie Prakis. This opera is performed frequently in The Living City (Ravens Bluff) and is "quite well-known in the Realms". Different operatic versions of the story exist, though it is most commonly told as a tragedy or horror tale.
The City of Ravens Bluff (2e)
p.11 - The excellent Ravens Bluff Playhouse and prestigious Stane Opera House are popular destinations. Wealthy patrons often hire actors and bards for private performances and plays; the most successful performers have wealthy sponsers to whom they dedicate their new works, a few set up schools.
p.12 - "Art and Culture"
- The Ravens Bluff Playhouse, run by the famous Bards Guild, is "one of the finest theaters in the Realms" and attracts performers from across Faerûn. The play Another Dart In The Minstrel's Heart is performed in 1370DR.
- The Stane Opera House, financed by several noble families, puts on seasonal operas and abstract musical performances "for those with more rarefied tastes" (many of these operatic forms are experimental and only moderately successful).
Marco Volo: Journey (2e)
p.23 - "Heino's Woodland Troupe" are introduced as "a band of traveling players - singers of songs, dancers of dances, performers of histories, tragedies, comedies, comic tragedies, tragic comedies, opera, operetta, (etc)".
Aurora's Whole Realms Catalogue (2e)
p.77 - Aurora sells Bustles, a type of heavily-padded metal-reinforced women's underclothing designed to enhance the allure of "the opera-going ladies of Sembia".
Sea of Fallen Stars (2e)
p.178 - The Whirlpool hall (in underwater Myth Nantar) hosts nightly dances and operas performed by whales singing along with mermaid and sea elf divas. The Tragic Redemption of Vhaemas the Bastard (written by the Prince) is the most popular opera. |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 16 Oct 2010 13:20:01 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2010 : 09:15:28
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Ah, I had most of those referenced already.
My thanks though Arik, for the Marco Volo tidbit. I haven't had the opportunity to get through those modules, so that's one I can add to my listing. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2010 : 09:22:15
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I just remembered another somewhat jocular operatic reference that isn't quite canon Realmslore, from Sage Schend:-
quote:
How about a Gilbert & Sullivan modernized operetta/musical with a love story across clashing powers in the streets and upways of Skullport? UNDERSIDE STORY! The Skulls of Skullport sing Greek chorus throughout the production, and we finally get the dancing troglodytes and tren kick line you've always wanted, Elaine!
Is it wrong of me to say that I actually tried my hand at a rough draft for the musical once?
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2010 : 09:33:56
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I used to be something of a Gilbert & Sullivan nerd, I'll admit. My neighbours often used to stomp on the floor whenever I showered, but I think they just gave up after a while.
You mean you attempted to write a musical, Sage?
[Edit]
I suppose any city with temples dedicated to Milil would serve the setting well. Or perhaps Oghma, Sharess, Sune, Leira, Tymora? I dunno. |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 16 Oct 2010 09:37:49 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2010 : 10:18:11
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quote:
Originally posted by Arik
You mean you attempted to write a musical, Sage?
Once upon a time. 'Twas to feature some of the characters from my long-ago [and well-regarded] Waterdeep campaign from 2000. I wrote up the extensive campaign logs here at Candlekeep as I recall -- dropping bits from the scenes that I managed to write about as an accompaniment.
quote:
I suppose any city with temples dedicated to Milil would serve the setting well. Or perhaps Oghma, Sharess, Sune, Leira, Tymora? I dunno.
For Milil, most definitely. A quick review of the "Important Ceremonies" section of the entry for the Lord of Song in Faiths & Avatars proves how crucial music and/or song are to practically every facet of Mililan faith. It wouldn't be too much of a stretch to believe that a Songmaster [or High Songmaster {a Selgauntan derivative term}] would willingly compose an opera to commemorate the "finished thought" of some significant member of the clergy. Or, perhaps, as a means of opening up the potential for operatic performances in cities that aren't otherwise inclined toward such works -- to encourage a love of music above and beyond the "coarse/dusty trail" minstrelsy. |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
Posted - 17 Oct 2010 : 23:53:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Arik
I used to be something of a Gilbert & Sullivan nerd, I'll admit. My neighbours often used to stomp on the floor whenever I showered, but I think they just gave up after a while.
Really? I never would have guessed, lol! Then again, I'm one to talk. I've used songs from The Pirate Movie and some Savatage in one of my stories.... And I'm fond or Rogers and Hammerstien and Andrew Lloyd Webber. |
The Goddess is alive, and magic is afoot.
"Where Science ends, Magic begins" -Spiral, Uncanny X-Men #491
"You idiots! You've captured their STUNT doubles!" -Spaceballs
Lothir's character background/stats: http://forum.candlekeep.com/pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=5469
My stories:
http://z3.invisionfree.com/Mickeys_Comic_Tavern/index.php?showforum=188
Lothir, courtesy of Sylinde (Deviant Art)/Luaxena (Chosen of Eilistraee)
http://sylinde.deviantart.com/#/d2z6e4u |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 18 Oct 2010 : 11:33:13
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Much of my vaguely ill-spent youth involved constant musical hedonism, I assure you. I blame the halfling girls who lived next door.
Gilbert & Sullivan nerds are associated, in a bizarre tangential manner, to Monty Python nerds; who are themselves inexplicably associated with D&D nerds. Far more common that you might (want to) think.
Keeping a well-practiced manly G&S singing voice assists a great deal in shouting at people. Not something I tend to do a lot, but still a sometimes useful ability to have. |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 18 Oct 2010 11:36:19 |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
Posted - 19 Oct 2010 : 03:36:02
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| ROFLMAO!!! Actually, I believe you absolutely! I am (all of the above) myself. I think it has something to do with the sort of mind-set that is involved with all three. Plus, I took a couple of years of drama in HS, just for fun, and enjoyed it immensely. Something about wearing fun costumes and acting like someone else just appealed to me- which might explain why I love D&D so much. I get to be "someone else", to quote a certain Jet song. |
The Goddess is alive, and magic is afoot.
"Where Science ends, Magic begins" -Spiral, Uncanny X-Men #491
"You idiots! You've captured their STUNT doubles!" -Spaceballs
Lothir's character background/stats: http://forum.candlekeep.com/pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=5469
My stories:
http://z3.invisionfree.com/Mickeys_Comic_Tavern/index.php?showforum=188
Lothir, courtesy of Sylinde (Deviant Art)/Luaxena (Chosen of Eilistraee)
http://sylinde.deviantart.com/#/d2z6e4u |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 20 Oct 2010 : 07:13:31
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| Is there an opera in the Realms that has an absurd theme like Samuel Becket's (play) Waiting for Godot? |
Every beginning has an end. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 20 Oct 2010 : 08:13:14
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quote:
Originally posted by dennis
Is there an opera in the Realms that has an absurd theme like Samuel Becket's (play) Waiting for Godot?
I'm sure Ed's brought up something like this before in passing. I pressed him for more information at the time, but I think I'm still waiting for a reply.
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 20 Oct 2010 : 08:28:50
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by dennis
Is there an opera in the Realms that has an absurd theme like Samuel Becket's (play) Waiting for Godot?
I'm sure Ed's brought up something like this before in passing. I pressed him for more information at the time, but I think I'm still waiting for a reply.
Let's hope he replies soon. That'd be really interesting!
While the aforementioned play is the most absurd one I ever read, it's kinda interesting - since it's one of a kind; I never thought a play can be made like that and that it can be called a story in the first place. I imagine something like that would appeal to the Lords of Waterdeep. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 23 Oct 2010 : 17:04:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Arik
I've found the Net Book of Bard Songs.
Yeah, I had originally intended to submit some material of my own creation to that project. But I missed the deadline. Which was probably a good thing, because most of the stuff that was to be submitted, ended up as part of my "Keys to Realms Music" article submission for DRAGON back when it was still in physical print. |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 23 Oct 2010 : 17:11:26
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quote:
Which was probably a good thing ...
Definitely a good thing. You can't be blamed for any of the awful parts.
Which issues of Dragon featured your (musical) work, Sage? |
[/Ayrik] |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 24 Oct 2010 : 00:51:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Arik
quote:
Which was probably a good thing ...
Definitely a good thing. You can't be blamed for any of the awful parts.
Which issues of Dragon featured your (musical) work, Sage?
It didn't. Unfortunately, I submitted my work just before the end of the printed cycle of the magazine. I was initially told that it might be shifted over to Wizards for eventual inclusion in their DDI material, but I've never heard anything back from them in over two years, so I'm guessing it's probably sitting on a virtual shelf somewhere, gathering electronic dust.
Having said that, though, I fully intend to re-produce said work for eventual publication here at Candlekeep. As such, it's on my famed "To-Do" list. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
Posted - 24 Oct 2010 : 03:26:39
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| Look forward to seeing it!! And my condolences about the article. I too, had planned a submission idea shortly before I found out they were going to stop print publication. WotC made a HUGE mistake when they stopped doing that. I do not nor will not ever subscribe to the On-line publication, because there is not enough material I would want to pay the fee to get. And they don't have enough free content on the site to be worth my time, either. Goddess, how I miss the mag. |
The Goddess is alive, and magic is afoot.
"Where Science ends, Magic begins" -Spiral, Uncanny X-Men #491
"You idiots! You've captured their STUNT doubles!" -Spaceballs
Lothir's character background/stats: http://forum.candlekeep.com/pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=5469
My stories:
http://z3.invisionfree.com/Mickeys_Comic_Tavern/index.php?showforum=188
Lothir, courtesy of Sylinde (Deviant Art)/Luaxena (Chosen of Eilistraee)
http://sylinde.deviantart.com/#/d2z6e4u |
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Topic |
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Opera in the Realms
