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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
 Posted - 14 Oct 2010 : 20:45:09
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I was going to point that out as well,; glad someone else did. Grimm's Fairy Tales are a must - Disney didn't do them justice.
One could say they are quite Grim. 
Disney is to Folklore and Mythology what pollution is to air (IMHO).
quote:
Originally posted by Alisttair
Hmmm, good metaphor that works for me. Especially Suicide Wings. They are like Harry Potter. Some people love them, but for the life of me I just can't understand why  - they both make me cry 
They only make me cry on their way out.
Its an 'age thing'. 
But just like Drizzt novels, I just can't stop myself from enjoying them, even though I know how bad they are for me. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31727 Posts |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31727 Posts |
Posted - 15 Oct 2010 : 01:32:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
Yes, sir, Sage sir.
Back on topic, does anyone else here see the resemblance between Snape and Szass Tam? Or is it just me?
Actually, I always thought there was some resemblance between Sememmon and Snape.  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 15 Oct 2010 : 02:57:26
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Bella = the Shadowsil
Zhent chick wasn't border-line insane enough.
Harry and his friends are the Rawlings version of the knights of Myth Drannor. Humorous at times, grim at others, but hero's to the last.
And Rawlings has killed far more characters we cared about then all the Realms authors combined.
For children? I think not......
'Kiddy books' bring people back from the dead... like Wulfgar...
Life is full of sad endings, the Realms not so much. Pain is part of life, and until you have that connection with your characters they are just 2D cut-outs. Rarely do I 'feel' for them.
Only two Realms novels ever made me cry - now THATs writing, baby. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 15 Oct 2010 03:01:53 |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 15 Oct 2010 : 05:52:18
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| I see a little resemblance between Hagrid and Samas Kul. In corpulent stature, not necessarily in temperament. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 15 Oct 2010 : 07:38:32
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| Yeah, old Mirt has been around since he first set up shop in a 1e box set. He manages to not only survive the horrible cataclysmic transitions between subsequent D&D editions, but somehow to steadily get a little richer, fatter, and greedier every time. |
[/Ayrik] |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31727 Posts |
Posted - 15 Oct 2010 : 08:05:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Arik
Yeah, old Mirt has been around since he first set up shop in a 1e box set. He manages to not only survive the horrible cataclysmic transitions between subsequent D&D editions, but somehow to steadily get a little richer, fatter, and greedier every time.
I'd love to read Ed's original Mirt short stories. As the Lady Hooded One has said:- "That's what they were all about, Matt: wheezing, aging, overweight main character who just can't do the heroics anymore, in stories that are laced with humour." |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 15 Oct 2010 : 09:05:10
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Well, the Old Sage has briefly discussed Mirt's younger days in a few scrolls he submitted to CandleKeep (1 2), as well as some more Mirtlore here, and in several old tales, One Comes, Unheralded, To Zirta; A Slow Day In Skullport; and Nothing But Trouble which feature Mirt quite prominently. Much of what I know of Mirt is pieced together from the aforementioned 1e box set, wherein Mirt's name (and background history) is revealed circumlocutively through the descriptions written about his former companions and allies.
Mirt was born in the year 1966RL, making him older than ancient Zagyg. |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 15 Oct 2010 09:13:09 |
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3567 Posts |
Posted - 15 Oct 2010 : 13:32:39
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Bella = the Shadowsil
Zhent chick wasn't border-line insane enough.
Harry and his friends are the Rawlings version of the knights of Myth Drannor. Humorous at times, grim at others, but hero's to the last.
And Rawlings has killed far more characters we cared about then all the Realms authors combined.
For children? I think not......
'Kiddy books' bring people back from the dead... like Wulfgar...
Life is full of sad endings, the Realms not so much. Pain is part of life, and until you have that connection with your characters they are just 2D cut-outs. Rarely do I 'feel' for them.
Only two Realms novels ever made me cry - now THATs writing, baby.
You can't say that without naming the novels....
spill it cry baby |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3567 Posts |
Posted - 15 Oct 2010 : 13:36:36
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| If the Weasly's were in the realms, they would have to be a branch of the Harpels....just look at that house of theirs...its screams Harpel! |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 15 Oct 2010 : 16:41:12
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Good call - I would even use a pic of that house as a visual-aid if my players ever wandered into 'Harpel territory'. 
*S*P*O*I*L*E*R* *A*L*E*R*T*
As for the novels, can't remember the first one (it was some time ago), but the more recent one was he last book of the first Erevis Cale trilogy. It was Jakk that did me in.
Although he was built to be the disposable comedy-sidekick, I grew attached to the little bugger. Paul did a bang-up job of making him deeper then a Jar-Jar Binks clown. The strange affection he and Riven somehow managed to devlope for each other despite everything was totally tear-worthy - quality writing.
In fact, it wasn't Jakk's death that got me going - it was the final scene and Riven's reaction to it that pushed me over the edge.
If Paul wrote a non-Realms novel I would read it. I can't even (at this time) say that about RAS or Ed. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 15 Oct 2010 : 19:52:26
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That may have been the other one - not sure.
I also got 'misty' when Queen Amlaruil's husband died (and daughter).
Would it be sexist of me to say that I think women have a better bead on emotions then male author's do? Just in-general, mind you...  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3567 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2010 : 02:03:59
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
That may have been the other one - not sure.
I also got 'misty' when Queen Amlaruil's husband died (and daughter).
Would it be sexist of me to say that I think women have a better bead on emotions then male author's do? Just in-general, mind you...
Yeah, it would be sexist of you, but not so blatant to be offensive
And you Should read a non fr Ed novel or three. Try the Falconfar novels, you will love Gar and Isk.....at least If you appreciate the old wolf that is |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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Edited by - The Red Walker on 16 Oct 2010 02:15:03 |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2010 : 02:53:21
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| Sexist? Not at all. There is a reason that most (if not ALL- I have yet to find one written by a male) romance novels are written by women. Women are naturally more in touch with their emotions. That's not sexism, it's simple fact. It's the nature of women to be nurturing and loving- at least in theory, though I've serious doubts about many women today. It's what a mother's role is. Of course, women also tend o have better control over their emotions, for that very reason. It takes a LOT of patience and self-control to deal with little kids every day! And this thread has now been thoroughly hijacked, lol! So- back to topic? |
The Goddess is alive, and magic is afoot.
"Where Science ends, Magic begins" -Spiral, Uncanny X-Men #491
"You idiots! You've captured their STUNT doubles!" -Spaceballs
Lothir's character background/stats: http://forum.candlekeep.com/pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=5469
My stories:
http://z3.invisionfree.com/Mickeys_Comic_Tavern/index.php?showforum=188
Lothir, courtesy of Sylinde (Deviant Art)/Luaxena (Chosen of Eilistraee)
http://sylinde.deviantart.com/#/d2z6e4u |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2010 : 05:09:09
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Agreed, it's not sexist to observe that female authors tend to portray emotions more comprehensively.
But I personally think they are more prone to oversimplify the emotional mindsets of their male characters. Or overcomplicate. Basically, it seems that some women, all their emotional insight notwisthstanding, just really don't quite understand what makes the male mind tick. Such male characters are typically purile boorish neanderthals or moody brooding philosophers, but they are rarely "normal" functional men.
Which is to say that that they fare much better than many male authors. Many men, while instinctively understanding the male mindset quite perfectly, just haven't got the slightest clue what the emotional motivations and processes should be in their female characters. Such female characters tend to basically be charicatures of manly ideals who entirely reject their "soft" feminine nature.
I'm not saying these character types aren't valid. But they do sometimes get a bit tiresome. I personally think the author's emotional maturity (often though not always linked with age/experience) is much more relevant than gender. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2010 : 06:35:56
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I didn't state it in such absolute terms. Some men and women do understand themselves and each other on emotional levels. But such understanding is not a prerequisite for writing a book; a fact which is often quite clearly evident.
I look at some of the stuff I wrote when younger and see that I was a full grown emotional child, lol. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 17 Oct 2010 : 01:41:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Arik
I see a little resemblance between Hagrid and Samas Kul. In corpulent stature, not necessarily in temperament.
Hagrid can be more fearsome than Samas when angered.
quote:
Originally posted by Red Walker
And you Should read a non fr Ed novel or three. Try the Falconfar novels, you will love Gar and Isk.....at least If you appreciate the old wolf that is.
Most of Ed's non-FR novels are a disappointment... Arch Wizard (Book 2 of the Falconfar saga) reminds of Becket's Waiting for Godot.
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Every beginning has an end. |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 17 Oct 2010 : 04:38:24
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Sort of bouncing back towards OT here ...
The setting of the Harry Potter stories is richly laden with details and depth. Distinctive and imaginative yet (seemingly) self-consistent.
Is this primarily due to the novels or to the movies? If the latter, I wonder what sort of amazing lore a well-done Realms movie would offer ... |
[/Ayrik] |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 17 Oct 2010 : 05:31:00
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Yeah, of course such a movie would be about Drizzt.
Although I'd rather see one about Karsus, myself. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 17 Oct 2010 : 16:52:14
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The movies don't do the novels justice - they leave-out at least 50% of the background information, some of which is very pertinent to the stories.
Like the fact that it was Harry's father and his friends that created the Marauder's Map. A clever person might be able to figure it out from the movie... after watching it a dozen times. There are hundreds of tidbits like that that the movies completely ignore.
That's why I can't wait until the final movie - Rawlings went back and used every character and referenced almost every (seemingly) obscure scene to weave the ending of her tale. The butchery has been getting worse with each screen-adaption. Things they left out become very important to the final sequence of events.
How anyone is going to make sense of that jumble of chaos is beyond me.
After reading the final book, I had to shake my head in awe. Either she had every last detail planned from the beginning, or she has an Ed-like way of weaving together disparate bits of lore into a seamless tapestry. I think, in both her case and Ed's, its a little of both. That's an innate knack that very few long-time authors ever develop. Isaac Asimov was the master of it - by the end of his life he had tied-together every novel he ever wrote, by filling-in books that took place during the absent eras, thus creating one long, over-arching storyline.
Truly Amazing.
The other end of the spectrum we have Wheel of Time, that runs in a hundred different directions at once, with very little tied together, and dozens of sub-plots get left hanging out to dry as apparent dead-ends. While I think Robert Jordan is an excellent writer, I feel he never had that knack for weaving the lore together that the great masters have. Its like each piece of information exists in a vacuum unto itself.
When you can write a scene and reference something that happened in another book you wrote 30 years earlier, then you can consider yourself a writer. If you publish a few books, then you are just an author... and its not really the same thing. I had a couple of professors that wrote their own books, hence they were published authors... but the writing was dry as a liche's arse.
Being able to assign your own work to your class sure is a lucrative way of making some good side-cash.
Reminds me of something... hmmm... can't quite put my finger on it..  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 17 Oct 2010 16:56:40 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36798 Posts |
Posted - 17 Oct 2010 : 17:30:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
The movies don't do the novels justice - they leave-out at least 50% of the background information, some of which is very pertinent to the stories.
Like the fact that it was Harry's father and his friends that created the Marauder's Map. A clever person might be able to figure it out from the movie... after watching it a dozen times. There are hundreds of tidbits like that that the movies completely ignore.
That's why I can't wait until the final movie - Rawlings went back and used every character and referenced almost every (seemingly) obscure scene to weave the ending of her tale. The butchery has been getting worse with each screen-adaption. Things they left out become very important to the final sequence of events.
You are so right... I felt that the sixth movie was made from an outline of the book, rather than from the book itself. Most of the same stuff still happened, but it happened way different than in the book.
I'd not put Harry Potter into the Realms, myself. I can see, however, some of the larger cities of the Realms having small magic academies for promising children. Maybe something that takes kids up to 5th level or so, and only has classes of a couple dozen.
I can see these schools being located in Waterdeep, Silverymoon, Suzail, Velprintalar, and Eltabbar -- though all of these schools would of course be different, with different focuses, training styles, and a different idea of what made a worthy student. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
Posted - 17 Oct 2010 : 22:58:20
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| MT, I have to agree with you. I loved the earlier movies, but the later ones seemed to be missing a good amount of the details. Perhaps that's why the last book is being divided into two movies. And I have tried to use that same sort of tying things together in my own writing, by adding bits from other stories into later ones, hopefully while still keeping each distinct enough to stand on its own. A trilogy that does not necessarily have to be read as such, but is tied closely enough that one can see how each moves into the next. At least, that's how I TRY to work them. I'd really like to get them published when finished, just to see how well I succeeded. |
The Goddess is alive, and magic is afoot.
"Where Science ends, Magic begins" -Spiral, Uncanny X-Men #491
"You idiots! You've captured their STUNT doubles!" -Spaceballs
Lothir's character background/stats: http://forum.candlekeep.com/pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=5469
My stories:
http://z3.invisionfree.com/Mickeys_Comic_Tavern/index.php?showforum=188
Lothir, courtesy of Sylinde (Deviant Art)/Luaxena (Chosen of Eilistraee)
http://sylinde.deviantart.com/#/d2z6e4u |
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Harry Potter in the Realms
