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Nicolai Withander
Master of Realmslore
Denmark
1093 Posts |
 Posted - 12 Sep 2010 : 17:23:40
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Hey...
I was trying to write up the Srinshee, as a lvl 54 wizard in 3.5 rules...
Now with all the levels and feats and chosen abilities... I cant get her to have more than base DC on her spells of 36...
Does anyone know how to give her a boost to her dc?
She is archmage as a prestige class!
Please help!
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HelldoG
Learned Scribe
101 Posts |
Posted - 12 Sep 2010 : 17:36:49
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| Try Improved Heighten Spell + a couple of Improved Spell Capacity. She could probably have 20th level spell slots which she could use to heighten her other spells. That should boost her spell DC significantly. And as a bonus she would have a ton of spell slots to prepare her spells. :P |
Away with powergaming propaganda! | I <3 Powergaming!
Don't feed the trolls. Especially the clever ones. |
Edited by - HelldoG on 12 Sep 2010 17:37:59 |
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KaizokuVizard
Acolyte
14 Posts |
Posted - 13 Sep 2010 : 02:01:28
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I believe I read somewhere that she read the Nether Scrolls in the past, so you can give her a bonus for that.
Or maybe Mystra gave her a bonus for helping Eliminister when he was in Myth Drannor?
Otherwise yea, Heighten spell, Imp Heighten Spell and Improved Spell Capacity.
Or maybe an Epic Spell that gives her a permanent bonus to spell DCs? |
"It means only one thing, and everything: Cut. Once committed to fight, cut. Everything else is secondary. Cut. THat is your duty, your purpose, your hunger. THere is no rule more important, no commitment that overrides that one. Cut." - Richard
"The lines are a portrayal of the dance. Cut from the void, not from bewilderment. Cut the enemy as quickly and directly as possible. Cut with certainty. Cut decisevely, resolutely. Cut into his strength. FLow through the gaps in his guard. Cut him. Cut him down utterly. Don't allow him a breath. Crush him. Cut him without mercy to the depths of his spirit. |
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idilippy
Senior Scribe
USA
417 Posts |
Posted - 13 Sep 2010 : 06:19:23
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| Also, in my opinion at least, trying to write anyone up as a 54th level anything is going to lead to some weird numbers since 3.5e(or any system I've seen) isn't really balanced for that high level play. You'd do better to try and make her a high 20s/low 30s caster instead. |
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HelldoG
Learned Scribe
101 Posts |
Posted - 13 Sep 2010 : 11:10:54
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| You're kidding, right? She cannot by weaker then Elminster & Co, she's The Srinshee, for Lurues sake! |
Away with powergaming propaganda! | I <3 Powergaming!
Don't feed the trolls. Especially the clever ones. |
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crazedventurers
Master of Realmslore
United Kingdom
1073 Posts |
Posted - 13 Sep 2010 : 11:26:51
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I can't see why you can't just make it up and give her whatever spell DC you want
Its it a game of imagination after all 
Cheers
Damian |
So saith Ed. I've never said he was sane, have I?
Gods, all this writing and he's running a constant fantasy version of Coronation Street in his head, too. .
shudder,
love to all,
THO
Candlekeep Forum 7 May 2005 |
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idilippy
Senior Scribe
USA
417 Posts |
Posted - 13 Sep 2010 : 19:01:03
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| Elminster, if I remember correctly, has a caster level of 25, even though his actual class level with the rogue, fighter, cleric, and other levels put him in the 30s. By these stats, giving the Srinshee 27-33 levels in a casting class would make her more powerful than Elminster at spellcasting regardless of the actual class level difference. Damian has a good point as well, for a NPC as powerful as the Srinshee you can easily fudge on the DC and attribute it to magic items you've created, special feats, or whatever it takes to justify it, if you even take the time to justify it. Since your players shouldn't have to worry about her exact save DCs, hopefully not in any case, the DC you give her should be what you think it is without worrying about exactly how she got it there. |
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Nicolai Withander
Master of Realmslore
Denmark
1093 Posts |
Posted - 13 Sep 2010 : 21:35:17
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Its true that I could just say well its The Srinshee for Lurue sake, but I wanted to use the rules. I might give her a special feat here and there, but besides the few tweeks I wanted to use the rules, and that give her a int of 50, +6 dc for arch mage, + 1 for nether scrolls and + 1 for the spellcasting progedy. That results in a base save of 37 i believe.
Where as if one where to make an asimar, paladin, sorcere epic red wizard, arch mage, chosen of bane one could and up with a base save in the mid 40's...
For the number 1 spellcaster in all of Fearun, and one of the oldest elves ever, and by far the most powerful elven high mage ever, it just seems to be very weak. Especially when I compare her DC to my lvl 25 wizard who has a base DC of 31...
I might be doing something wrong!
PS. Its just a write up for my own enjoyment, to see how powerful I can make the MOST powerful... using the rules! |
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HelldoG
Learned Scribe
101 Posts |
Posted - 13 Sep 2010 : 21:54:45
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Spellcasting Prodigy doesn't give bonuses to DC, only to spell slots.
As I wrote in my earlier post, Improved Heighten Spell and Improved Spell Capacity should give you a least +15-20 to DC and an incredible amount of spell slots at very hight levels to prepare with multiple metamagics. |
Away with powergaming propaganda! | I <3 Powergaming!
Don't feed the trolls. Especially the clever ones. |
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Nicolai Withander
Master of Realmslore
Denmark
1093 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2010 : 18:08:25
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SPELLCASTING PRODIGY [GENERAL]
You have an exceptional gift for magic.
Benefit: For the purpose of determining bonus spells and
the saving throw DCs of spells you cast, treat your primary
spellcasting ability score (Charisma for bards and sorcerers.
Wisdom for divine spellcasters.
Intelligence for wizards) as 2 points higher than its actual
value. If you have more than one spellcasting class, the bonus
applies to only one of those classes.
Special: You may only take this feat as a 1st-level
character.If you take this feat more than once (for example, if you are a human or another type of creature that gets more than
one feat at 1st level), it applies to a different spellcasting
class each time.
You can take this feat even if you don’t have any
spellcasting classes yet. |
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HelldoG
Learned Scribe
101 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2010 : 18:43:48
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| Where is this from? Because in Player's Guide to Faerun there's no mention od spell DC. Here is the feat from that handbook - Spellcasting Prodigy. |
Away with powergaming propaganda! | I <3 Powergaming!
Don't feed the trolls. Especially the clever ones. |
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Artemel
Learned Scribe
USA
110 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2010 : 20:43:09
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quote:
Originally posted by Nicolai Withander
SPELLCASTING PRODIGY [GENERAL]
You have an exceptional gift for magic.
Benefit: For the purpose of determining bonus spells and
the saving throw DCs of spells you cast, treat your primary
spellcasting ability score (Charisma for bards and sorcerers.
Wisdom for divine spellcasters.
Intelligence for wizards) as 2 points higher than its actual
value. If you have more than one spellcasting class, the bonus
applies to only one of those classes.
Special: You may only take this feat as a 1st-level
character.If you take this feat more than once (for example, if you are a human or another type of creature that gets more than
one feat at 1st level), it applies to a different spellcasting
class each time.
You can take this feat even if you don’t have any
spellcasting classes yet.
That's the 3e version. They limited DC increasing feats in 3.5 because of way too much power creep. |
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HelldoG
Learned Scribe
101 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2010 : 20:52:31
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| And Nicolai is doin't The Srinshee in 3.5 edition rules, so... tough luck, Nic. :P |
Away with powergaming propaganda! | I <3 Powergaming!
Don't feed the trolls. Especially the clever ones. |
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Dracons
Learned Scribe
USA
299 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2010 : 21:52:07
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| Here is an easy fix bro. Since she's the chosen of the ENTIRE Elven Pantheon and Mystra, you can have the chosen status give her extreme bonuses to her intelligence and or save DC's |
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Kilvan
Senior Scribe
Canada
894 Posts |
Posted - 15 Sep 2010 : 01:30:39
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quote:
Originally posted by Nicolai Withander
...+6 dc for arch mage...
That's not right by 3.5 rules, the Archmage Spell power ability changed for a bonus to caster level. Giving the bonus to DC was overpowered enough, but making it specificaly stack was ridiculous.
As Artemel said, 3.5 limited the bonuses to spell DC in many ways (spell focus used to give a +2 bonus!!), and with good reasons.
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Edited by - Kilvan on 15 Sep 2010 12:07:01 |
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Dracons
Learned Scribe
USA
299 Posts |
Posted - 15 Sep 2010 : 05:26:25
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| Not sure what his splat books are, as he lives in a different country. |
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Skeptic
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1273 Posts |
Posted - 15 Sep 2010 : 06:41:08
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quote:
Originally posted by Nicolai Withander
PS. Its just a write up for my own enjoyment, to see how powerful I can make the MOST powerful... using the rules!
If you use the Epic Level Handbook, there is no set limit on levels, so, using the rules, there is no possible MOST powerful wizard. |
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Nicolai Withander
Master of Realmslore
Denmark
1093 Posts |
Posted - 15 Sep 2010 : 18:27:37
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Well... Im using 3.0 rules! And I do not feel that +6 dc is too much. Not for the most powerful entity in the entire multivers ever!!!
But I had totally forgotten that she was chosen of the seldarin aswell as mystra. Has the Elven Chosen template ever been written? Or is it simply up to me to create something crazy??? |
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Dracons
Learned Scribe
USA
299 Posts |
Posted - 16 Sep 2010 : 01:39:20
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Totally up to you bro, nothing has been written on it that I know off.
Very likely insane longsword, longbow, and magical abilities.
I also imange an insane dex bonus on par with mystra's chosen con bonus.
Likely empathy on elves. (Like sensing anything that happens to other elves)
Can do elven high magic without the need of other casters.
Sky is the limit bro. Sky the limit. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36805 Posts |
Posted - 16 Sep 2010 : 04:24:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Nicolai Withander
Not for the most powerful entity in the entire multivers ever!!!
You're writing up whoever Ao was answering to at the end of Waterdeep?  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Nicolai Withander
Master of Realmslore
Denmark
1093 Posts |
Posted - 16 Sep 2010 : 19:49:31
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yes... apparently!
No im simple just trying to, with the help of game mechanics, "create" Srinshee...
What bothers me though, is that it seems that game mechanics simple just does not do her justice!!! |
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idilippy
Senior Scribe
USA
417 Posts |
Posted - 17 Sep 2010 : 00:02:53
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Well, considering the gods are written up as 40th level plus their divine rank I think you're shooting too high for the Srinshee with 54th level. She isn't going to be able to take on a god 1 on 1 and shouldn't be 20 or more levels higher than Elminster, Khelben, or the Simbul. Why don't you take a look at the stats for Elminster, detailed in the intro to the Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting or the Simbul, page 199 I believe of that same book, then add maybe 4-5 levels if you think it's necessary and modify the chosen of Mystra abilities to abilities that you want her to have.
Also, keep in mind that the DC for sorcerer spells cast by the Simbul are 18+spell level and the DC for Elminster is 21+ spell level or 23+ spell level for evocation and enchantment. Other powerful NPCs include Halaster Blackcloak: DC 20+spell level or 22+ for enchantment and transmutation, Szass Tam: DC 18+ spell level, 20+ for evocation and 28+ for necromancy, and Manshoon: DC 17+ spell level, 19+ for enchantment and conjuration. By my information your 36 base DC, assuming that is for 9th level spells, is better than every major wizard presented in the FRCS with the exception of Szass Tam using necromancy spells. Considering he is the most powerful necromancer in a society devoted to wizards, being able to almost beat him at his own game while being far above him in all other spells means you have done a pretty good job of making a wizard who has the hardest spells to resist in all of Faerûn. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36805 Posts |
Posted - 17 Sep 2010 : 00:35:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Nicolai Withander
What bothers me though, is that it seems that game mechanics simple just does not do her justice!!!
Of course. She wasn't created with game mechanics in mind.
I've heard more than one person complain that novel characters or other NPCs don't fit the game rules... ignoring the fact that these characters were created for flavor or to fit story roles. The game was not a factor in their creation. |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Nicolai Withander
Master of Realmslore
Denmark
1093 Posts |
Posted - 17 Sep 2010 : 15:13:53
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quote:
Originally posted by idilippy
Well, considering the gods are written up as 40th level plus their divine rank I think you're shooting too high for the Srinshee with 54th level. She isn't going to be able to take on a god 1 on 1 and shouldn't be 20 or more levels higher than Elminster, Khelben, or the Simbul. Why don't you take a look at the stats for Elminster, detailed in the intro to the Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting or the Simbul, page 199 I believe of that same book, then add maybe 4-5 levels if you think it's necessary and modify the chosen of Mystra abilities to abilities that you want her to have.
Also, keep in mind that the DC for sorcerer spells cast by the Simbul are 18+spell level and the DC for Elminster is 21+ spell level or 23+ spell level for evocation and enchantment. Other powerful NPCs include Halaster Blackcloak: DC 20+spell level or 22+ for enchantment and transmutation, Szass Tam: DC 18+ spell level, 20+ for evocation and 28+ for necromancy, and Manshoon: DC 17+ spell level, 19+ for enchantment and conjuration. By my information your 36 base DC, assuming that is for 9th level spells, is better than every major wizard presented in the FRCS with the exception of Szass Tam using necromancy spells. Considering he is the most powerful necromancer in a society devoted to wizards, being able to almost beat him at his own game while being far above him in all other spells means you have done a pretty good job of making a wizard who has the hardest spells to resist in all of Faerûn.
Well... somewhere Ed has said that Larloch is around lvl 46-47' ish, and he has also said or hintet that Srinshee is the MOST powerful or skillful spellcaster in fearun. I also got her lvl (54) somewhere on this forum. Whome or where I dont remember, but it was something about a write up Ed once did in a novel. I dont remember if i was like a prologue or prelude or something like The Silmarillion, where it contained "data" instead of fictional material. The facts were ofc about fictional characters and stuff, but I think you understand.
So based on the statement that Larloch is lvl 46-47'ish, and the Srinshee is even more powerful than that, somebody wrote the number 54. And since im only a novice concerning lore on this forum I believed that.
Hopefully the Sage can, as usual, shead some light on this! I know that THO can, but im pretty sure she wont! |
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idilippy
Senior Scribe
USA
417 Posts |
Posted - 17 Sep 2010 : 22:14:51
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| I imagine Larloch would be a special case, even if Ed somewhere said he was level 46-47(Do you have a link or reference for that?) and I have never heard of him saying the Srinshee was the most powerful spellcaster on Faerun, but assuming he did say that I would imagine it was in reference to when she was active in Myth Drannor or else maybe it was for the most powerful living spellcaster. I'm just not sure, if you find the two references I'd like to see them. |
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Nicolai Withander
Master of Realmslore
Denmark
1093 Posts |
Posted - 13 Feb 2011 : 22:53:24
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Well the thing about The Srinshee being so high lvl was from some book called Elves something.... not Tears so White" but... hmm... ill try to find it!http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=4086
One would have to scroll a bit down and read the massage from the Sage. |
Edited by - Nicolai Withander on 13 Feb 2011 23:02:58 |
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althen artren
Senior Scribe
USA
780 Posts |
Posted - 16 Feb 2011 : 02:23:37
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| Nicolai, I'll take a stab at it and tell you what I can munchkin. |
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High spell DC
