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Barastir
Master of Realmslore

Brazil
1600 Posts

Posted - 02 Aug 2011 :  16:34:08  Show Profile Send Barastir a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by ElaineCunningham

Huh. Boobage is apparently a topic of interest to gamer guys. This comes as a great surprise. :|



Well, the available pictures, specially the shortage of those who didn't look silly or offensive to my female players, is a topic of interest to me and some of the guys around here.

"Goodness is not a natural state, but must be
fought for to be attained and maintained.
Lead by example.
Let your deeds speak your intentions.
Goodness radiated from the heart."

The Paladin's Virtues, excerpt from the "Quentin's Monograph"
(by Ed Greenwood)
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Eltheron
Senior Scribe

740 Posts

Posted - 02 Aug 2011 :  16:52:02  Show Profile Send Eltheron a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by ElaineCunningham

Huh. Boobage is apparently a topic of interest to gamer all guys. This comes as a great surprise. :|

Fixed that for you.

"The very best possible post-fourteenth-century Realms lets down those who love the specific, detailed social, political and magical situation, with its thousands of characters, developed over forty years, and want to learn more about it; and those who'd be open to a new one with equal depth, which there just isn't time to re-produce; and those repelled, some past the point of no return, by the bad-taste-and-plausibility gap of things done to the world when its guardianship was less careful."
--Faraer
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Thieran
Learned Scribe

Germany
293 Posts

Posted - 02 Aug 2011 :  17:21:59  Show Profile Send Thieran a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Still "a great surprise", I guess
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ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author

2391 Posts

Posted - 02 Aug 2011 :  18:34:59  Show Profile  Visit ElaineCunningham's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Thieran

Still "a great surprise", I guess



I used "great" in the sense of "very large," but I suppose it's other meaning--"very pleasant"--could also apply.

So. Armed with this knowledge, I will shift my focus from elves to more robust humans and half-orcs, and in future art notes I will specify, "Mavel Comics proportions, please."

No, not really.
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Eltheron
Senior Scribe

740 Posts

Posted - 02 Aug 2011 :  18:39:35  Show Profile Send Eltheron a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by ElaineCunningham

quote:
Originally posted by Thieran

Still "a great surprise", I guess



I used "great" in the sense of "very large," but I suppose it's other meaning--"very pleasant"--could also apply.

So. Armed with this knowledge, I will shift my focus from elves to more robust humans and half-orcs, and in future art notes I will specify, "Mavel Comics proportions, please."

Gah!

quote:
No, not really.


Whew!


"The very best possible post-fourteenth-century Realms lets down those who love the specific, detailed social, political and magical situation, with its thousands of characters, developed over forty years, and want to learn more about it; and those who'd be open to a new one with equal depth, which there just isn't time to re-produce; and those repelled, some past the point of no return, by the bad-taste-and-plausibility gap of things done to the world when its guardianship was less careful."
--Faraer
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
36773 Posts

Posted - 02 Aug 2011 :  18:57:34  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by ElaineCunningham

quote:
Originally posted by Thieran

Still "a great surprise", I guess



I used "great" in the sense of "very large," but I suppose it's other meaning--"very pleasant"--could also apply.

So. Armed with this knowledge, I will shift my focus from elves to more robust humans and half-orcs, and in future art notes I will specify, "Mavel Comics proportions, please."

No, not really.



Could be worse, I suppose... I've seen plenty of anime artwork that focused on women with what I shall describe as improbable attributes. Some of this artwork makes me wonder if the artists have ever actually seen a real woman. I've seen art where the artist did a phenomenal job on everything else, and then ruined it by mounting bean-bag chairs on the the woman's chest.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

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Saer Cormaeril
Learned Scribe

124 Posts

Posted - 02 Aug 2011 :  22:30:24  Show Profile Send Saer Cormaeril a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I completely agree. However, I think its important to take this point to it's ultimate conclusion: Far too often, protagonists in fantasy/science fiction/entertainment in general are attractive. I mean, really?
Bringing this back to the 'Realms... Is *everyone* in the Realms attractive? Were I to judge the books by their covers, I would certainly come to this conclusion. However, I realize that often the cover art of books are *not* indicative of the characters portrayed within. (Otherwise, Danillo Thann is an overweight stooge with a double-chin the size of Mount Hotenow.)

Now, a question. Elaine, would you be willing to write a novel, or series of novels, in which none of the protagonists were physically attractive? It is clear from the research that the pervasiveness of these images (and portrayals) damage young women's sense of self image. Your novels always have compelling female protagonists, however, they are almost always 'beautiful'. Are you willing to draw a line in the sand, and finally portray a frumpy, overweight, dentally challenged woman as a compelling antagonist?

Brace Cormaeril
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ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author

2391 Posts

Posted - 03 Aug 2011 :  00:55:31  Show Profile  Visit ElaineCunningham's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Saer Cormaeril

I completely agree. However, I think its important to take this point to it's ultimate conclusion: Far too often, protagonists in fantasy/science fiction/entertainment in general are attractive. I mean, really?
Bringing this back to the 'Realms... Is *everyone* in the Realms attractive? Were I to judge the books by their covers, I would certainly come to this conclusion. However, I realize that often the cover art of books are *not* indicative of the characters portrayed within. (Otherwise, Danillo Thann is an overweight stooge with a double-chin the size of Mount Hotenow.)


Yeah, there was a time period in which the FR covers were photo-realistic depictions of real people, most of whom bore little resemblance to the characters. Apparently Fred Fields, the artist, decided to use one of the TSR cartographers as a model for Danilo on the cover of Elfshadow. For the original cover of Daughter of the Drow, he painted himself and his significant other as Fyodor and Liriel, despite the fact that Fyodor was supposed to be a 20-year-old warrior, and Liriel was a FRICKIN' ELF whose age was described as the equivalent of a human teenager.

quote:
Now, a question. Elaine, would you be willing to write a novel, or series of novels, in which none of the protagonists were physically attractive? It is clear from the research that the pervasiveness of these images (and portrayals) damage young women's sense of self image. Your novels always have compelling female protagonists, however, they are almost always 'beautiful'. Are you willing to draw a line in the sand, and finally portray a frumpy, overweight, dentally challenged woman as a compelling antagonist?



That's an interesting question.

Bob Salvatore once told me that he considered making Jillsepony, the central female character of his Corona novels, a rather plain woman, but he decided that this would be impractical. In romance and fantasy novels, attractive women--and, to a lesser extent, men--are an expectation, almost as firmly entrenched as romance's happy ending and fantasy's "good vanquishes evil." In addition to genre expectations, most of my fantasy books have focused on female elf characters. When you're writing about elves, beauty is a given. Even a "plump and homely" elf, such as Shaki Hunzrin, is attractive by human standards.

Where books about non-beautiful characters fall short, I think, is their preoccupation with the fact that the characters are not beautiful. Back in the 80's, I recall reading a catagory romance from the Harlequin American line, in which the guy was gorgeous and the woman downright homely. The whole story was pretty much focused on her insecurities and his initial reluctance to get involved with someone who didn't fit conventional ideas of beauty. I found the book irritating. People whose central concern is their physical appearance annoy me, whether they're beautiful, average, or fugly.

Another example is Tess Gerritsen's Rizzoli and Isles series. Jane Rizzoli is a murder cop, and she has two huge chips on her shoulders: she's a woman in what is traditionally a man's job, and she's not pretty. It really, really bothers her that she's not pretty, to the extent that she gets pissed off and takes it personally when any guy notices another woman. It's a bit much. (The TV series lost that aspect when they cast Angela Harmon, who IS very pretty.)

The way to handle this issue, I think, is to ignore it. A lot of people aren't gorgeous, and it's extirely possible to go through life without obsessing about this fact.

Now, to address your question direction: Would I be willing to write about people who are less than beautiful?

I've written stories in which characters are described as plain or not described at all. Consider the short story "Ravens," a link to which is posted above. Frankie is a suburban soccer mom, and she's middle-aged, overweight, and fashion-challenged. The narrator notes this and moves on. Frankie's appearance is a minor part of who she is. She looks "normal," despite being somewhat better at witchcraft than your average soccer mom. Since the story focuses on the weird things happening beneath the surface of small town life, her appearance echoes a theme and fits the story. Bobby, the narrator, isn't described at all, because a physical description would be superfluous to the tale.

Admittedly, it's easier to get away with this in a short story than a novel. People are strongly biased toward attractive people, and this bias shows up when they're deciding whether or not they want to spend time with a character.

I'm not saying writers should avoid characters who are plain or even downright unattractive, but there should be a compelling reason for this choice. This reason can be as simple as spy who blends into the crowd because he's not at all memorable.

Does this answer your question?

Edited by - ElaineCunningham on 03 Aug 2011 01:09:19
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Saer Cormaeril
Learned Scribe

124 Posts

Posted - 03 Aug 2011 :  01:12:58  Show Profile Send Saer Cormaeril a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Maybe... are you saying that there should be a compelling reason why a protagonist is *not* attractive in a novel or series, i.e., it is compelling that Switters (a CIA spook) in Tom Robbin's "Fierce Invalids Home From Climates" is not attractive, because he is a spy and can therefore blend in with a crowd, but otherwise, one should default to "the hotness"?

Brace Cormaeril
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High

Australia
31701 Posts

Posted - 03 Aug 2011 :  01:13:09  Show Profile Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by ElaineCunningham

So. Armed with this knowledge, I will shift my focus from elves to more robust humans and half-orcs, and in future art notes I will specify, "Mavel Comics proportions, please."

No, not really.

You almost had me worried there.

Interestingly, though, I've been flicking through some DC titles from the early 90's too -- particularly the Wonder Woman book, and I find myself amazed by how Diana could even use her lasso so deftly when she was "packing" incredible "physical attributes" beneath her ridiculously moulded her chest armour.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)

"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood

Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage
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ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author

2391 Posts

Posted - 03 Aug 2011 :  01:41:23  Show Profile  Visit ElaineCunningham's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Saer Cormaeril

Maybe... are you saying that there should be a compelling reason why a protagonist is *not* attractive in a novel or series, i.e., it is compelling that Switters (a CIA spook) in Tom Robbin's "Fierce Invalids Home From Climates" is not attractive, because he is a spy and can therefore blend in with a crowd, but otherwise, one should default to "the hotness"?



"Default to hot" is, I think, overstating the point. Readers are more attracted to characters who have a pleasant appearance. Writers ignore this at their peril. But. "Pleasant" and "the hotness" are quite different matters. In fact, overdoing "the hotness" can be counterproductive. Making every character look like a Victoria's Secret model or a Chippendale chancer is more likely to exasperate readers than intrigue them.

There are times when beauty is irrelevant and distracting. Years ago, I agreed to edit a relative's first attempt at writing a romance novel. Her prose wasn't very visual. In one scene, she wrote something along the lines of "A nurse came into the room." I suggested that she give the reader something to see. She ammended the description to, "A nurse came into the room. She was a stunning redhead with emerald eyes." I suggested that she put herself in the patient's position, since the patient was the one noticing the nurse. What would the patient notice? At the time, both my sisters were nurses and they were religious about maintaining their manicures, not only for personal reasons but because their hands were what the patients noticed. A nurse with an unseasonal tan and a palm tree painted on the nail of her forefinger is a memorable image. Even better, it's an image you can use to create a mood or reflect a theme. The nurse has obviously taken a recent vacation. The patient's daughter was just killed in an accident while on vacation. A stunning redhead with emeral green eyes is meaningless. A reminder of a tropical vacation twists the knife in the POV character's heart.

Okay, THAT was a rather long annecdote. Back on topic.

I like the notion of "default." What is the "default appearance" for characters, and why? This is definitely something writers should think about. What are the readers' expectations? If you confound these expectations, what are your reasons for doing so?
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Saer Cormaeril
Learned Scribe

124 Posts

Posted - 03 Aug 2011 :  02:09:57  Show Profile Send Saer Cormaeril a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I agree. By default, female adventurers and female super heroines have big boobs. I think the reasons for this are manifold, but two may be that the outward appearance of femininity is *urm* augmented by these depictions, and that it is the readers of these genres expectation.

With your work towards aerodynamically probable faeries (did I just type that?) and A-cup elves nearing fruition, how do you expect this confounding of reader expectation will impact your readers?

Brace Cormaeril
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ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author

2391 Posts

Posted - 03 Aug 2011 :  04:03:50  Show Profile  Visit ElaineCunningham's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Saer Cormaeril

I agree. By default, female adventurers and female super heroines have big boobs. I think the reasons for this are manifold, but two may be that the outward appearance of femininity is *urm* augmented by these depictions, and that it is the readers of these genres expectation.

With your work towards aerodynamically probable faeries (did I just type that?) and A-cup elves nearing fruition, how do you expect this confounding of reader expectation will impact your readers?



I think most will survive the shock.
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Saer Cormaeril
Learned Scribe

124 Posts

Posted - 03 Aug 2011 :  05:05:29  Show Profile Send Saer Cormaeril a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Lol, I'm certain.

Maybe I should have said from the outset that I personally feel that the hypersexualized society, or a society whose norms diminish or victimize, make less of or disparage women is highly offensive to me. As an anecdote, I would also like to add that I am a northern woodland american indian, and am myself a member of a society which maintains a strong matriarchy. The 'american' part of that weird anthropologically adequate label I get to apply to myself of course means I fully experienced the prevailing society, while at once being taught a very different body of norms. I studied womens issues as a undergraduate as well, though I am by no means an expert.

But I am a Realms fan.

From the Venus of Willendorf (certainly long before) to Storm Silverhand...

So do you think that big booby girls on fantasy fiction covers are just a tired trope? A sorta covert yet pervasive form of misogyny? Indicative of the Forgotten Realms setting, by design or by extension of the what, 30 years of collaborative development?

I also wonder if physical attractiveness is another extension of fantasy, and if women also want, when reading adventure stories like Liriels and Arilyns, to think how cool it would be to be special, and pretty, and have amazing clothes, and two guys that are both totally hot sooo into them they might just fight at any moment... Kinda like how my fourteen year old self thought it would be so cool to be a bad-ass with a sword and be able to kick the asses of 'bad-guys'. (Ok, I still that would be cool.)

Personally, I think the Faerun is kinda sexist, and do you have any plans to touch of feminist themes in your upcoming Forgotten Realms work?

Sorry if I'm totally off base in thinking that your take on fantasy fictin boob art had a feminist theme.

Brace Cormaeril
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Dennis
Great Reader

9933 Posts

Posted - 03 Aug 2011 :  12:01:16  Show Profile Send Dennis a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by ElaineCunningham

quote:
Originally posted by Thieran

Still "a great surprise", I guess



I used "great" in the sense of "very large," but I suppose it's other meaning--"very pleasant"--could also apply.

So. Armed with this knowledge, I will shift my focus from elves to more robust humans and half-orcs, and in future art notes I will specify, "Mavel Comics proportions, please."

No, not really.



Could be worse, I suppose... I've seen plenty of anime artwork that focused on women with what I shall describe as improbable attributes. Some of this artwork makes me wonder if the artists have ever actually seen a real woman. I've seen art where the artist did a phenomenal job on everything else, and then ruined it by mounting bean-bag chairs on the the woman's chest.



Totally agree, Wooly. That's one of the things I dislike about some anime. Not just the women's breasts. Their behind is impossibly huge, too.

Every beginning has an end.
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ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author

2391 Posts

Posted - 03 Aug 2011 :  13:15:04  Show Profile  Visit ElaineCunningham's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Saer Cormaeril

Lol, I'm certain.

Maybe I should have said from the outset that I personally feel that the hypersexualized society, or a society whose norms diminish or victimize, make less of or disparage women is highly offensive to me. As an anecdote, I would also like to add that I am a northern woodland american indian, and am myself a member of a society which maintains a strong matriarchy. The 'american' part of that weird anthropologically adequate label I get to apply to myself of course means I fully experienced the prevailing society, while at once being taught a very different body of norms. I studied womens issues as a undergraduate as well, though I am by no means an expert.

But I am a Realms fan.

From the Venus of Willendorf (certainly long before) to Storm Silverhand...

So do you think that big booby girls on fantasy fiction covers are just a tired trope? A sorta covert yet pervasive form of misogyny? Indicative of the Forgotten Realms setting, by design or by extension of the what, 30 years of collaborative development?

I also wonder if physical attractiveness is another extension of fantasy, and if women also want, when reading adventure stories like Liriels and Arilyns, to think how cool it would be to be special, and pretty, and have amazing clothes, and two guys that are both totally hot sooo into them they might just fight at any moment... Kinda like how my fourteen year old self thought it would be so cool to be a bad-ass with a sword and be able to kick the asses of 'bad-guys'. (Ok, I still that would be cool.)

Personally, I think the Faerun is kinda sexist, and do you have any plans to touch of feminist themes in your upcoming Forgotten Realms work?

Sorry if I'm totally off base in thinking that your take on fantasy fictin boob art had a feminist theme.



No, I don't equate small boobs with feminism. I equate small boobs with elves and fairies.

I'm not sure "sexist" is the right term for Faerun. If you're defining sexism as gender discrimination, I'd have to disagree. In most countries of Faerun, women and men are on equal footing. Women are rulers, warriors, clergy, blacksmiths--whatever.

If you view "sexism" as preoccupation with sex, then you might have a point. The creator endowed his world with a certain cheerfully salacious tone. There's a fair amount of nudity, and no religious or social code insisting that sex is a Bad Thing. But the hijinks are equal-opportunity, and there's no stigma against sexually active women. Feminists are not, as a rule, in favor of NO sex, so this state of affairs does not violate any code of feminism I'm familiar with.

Is the busty cover girl a tired fantasy trope? Sure. Just like the rear-view portraits of urban fantasy heroines with leather pants and a tramp stamp, or the male torsos on covers of "spicy" romance novels, or the headless females in period clothing on a certain type of historical novels, or the bodice-ripper cover on romance novels. Fortunately, cover art tends to go in cycles, so today's trend is likely to become tomorrow's tired trope.

For good or ill, that's unlikely to be true of fantasy boobage.

Are these portrayals misogynistic? In all candor, I don't have a strongly held opinion on this matter; at least, not to the extent that I believe all revealing costumes and busty females to be omg ebil! I'm inclined to view art one piece at a time. Some fantasy art does strike me as sexualizing women to the point of pornography, but I've also seen some pieces in which the females are skimpily clad that don't seem to be ABOUT nudity. It's very subjective. In general, I don't like skimpy, impractical armor, but there aren't many other items on my list of Don't Like.

Are attractive female characters a wish-fulfillment fantasy for females readers? A look at women's fiction, particularly the romance genre, would suggest that it is.

But you hit the key point when you mentioned Liriel's and Arilyn's "adventures." The plot of my FR novels is never about who "gets" the girl. There might be a romance, but it's never the central focus of the story. "Being pretty" is never the defining characteristic of any character I write. Liriel and Arilyn are elves, therefore they're beautiful. But Bronwyn and Tzigone, both human women, are of pleasant but average appearance.

I have very little patience with the sort of fiction you describe--a mall rat teen fantasy involving lots of clothes and hot guys fighting over her. It's a passive fantasy for passive people. I relate to women who pick up a sword.
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ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author

2391 Posts

Posted - 05 Aug 2011 :  14:47:46  Show Profile  Visit ElaineCunningham's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Busy day ahead, so when it came to today's Free Fiction Friday, I punted. There's a link to "The Illusionist," a short story written for Paizo's Pathfinder setting and originally published in The Wayfinder, a fanzine, and shortly thereafter posted on the Paizo website as part of the free Web Fiction posted each Wednesday.

The story stands alone, and no knowledge of the setting is required.

http://www.elainecunningham.com/

Those who follow this link after today (Friday, August 5) will likely see a more recent post, since my website home page is a frequently updated WordPress blog. If you'd like to go directly to the tale on the Paizo website, here's a link:

http://paizo.com/pathfinder/tales/serial/theIllusionist
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
36773 Posts

Posted - 05 Aug 2011 :  15:58:33  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I enjoyed that story when it first appeared on the Paizo site.

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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Barastir
Master of Realmslore

Brazil
1600 Posts

Posted - 05 Aug 2011 :  17:47:17  Show Profile Send Barastir a Private Message  Reply with Quote
So have I. I also enjoyed the short fiction "A Connecticut Gamer in King Arthur's Court". Now I need some time to read "Ravens"...

"Goodness is not a natural state, but must be
fought for to be attained and maintained.
Lead by example.
Let your deeds speak your intentions.
Goodness radiated from the heart."

The Paladin's Virtues, excerpt from the "Quentin's Monograph"
(by Ed Greenwood)
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High

Australia
31701 Posts

Posted - 06 Aug 2011 :  01:57:11  Show Profile Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by ElaineCunningham

Busy day ahead, so when it came to today's Free Fiction Friday, I punted. There's a link to "The Illusionist," a short story written for Paizo's Pathfinder setting and originally published in The Wayfinder, a fanzine, and shortly thereafter posted on the Paizo website as part of the free Web Fiction posted each Wednesday.

The story stands alone, and no knowledge of the setting is required.

http://www.elainecunningham.com/

Those who follow this link after today (Friday, August 5) will likely see a more recent post, since my website home page is a frequently updated WordPress blog. If you'd like to go directly to the tale on the Paizo website, here's a link:

http://paizo.com/pathfinder/tales/serial/theIllusionist

Hmmm. I must've missed the Paizo tale during its first run-thru on their site. But I'm glad I've caught it now.

Elaine, you're easily making Friday my favourite day of the week!

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)

"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood

Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage
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Kajehase
Great Reader

Sweden
2104 Posts

Posted - 06 Aug 2011 :  05:53:17  Show Profile Send Kajehase a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Seems putting up "The Illusionist" was quite timely. Wayfinder #4, where it first appeared, was awarded the 2011 Judges' Award at the Ennies. Congratulations Elaine.

Edit: Inserted missing comma.

There is a rumour going around that I have found god. I think is unlikely because I have enough difficulty finding my keys, and there is empirical evidence that they exist.
Terry Pratchett

Edited by - Kajehase on 06 Aug 2011 13:25:28
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ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author

2391 Posts

Posted - 06 Aug 2011 :  11:53:37  Show Profile  Visit ElaineCunningham's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Kajehase

Seems putting up "The Illusionist" was quite timely. Wayfinder #4, where it first appeared was awarded the 2011 Judges' Award at the Ennies.



That's great news! The Wayfinder team does a terrific job, and I'm delighted to see them recognized for their creativity and hard work.

Edited by - ElaineCunningham on 07 Aug 2011 00:03:10
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Fellfire
Master of Realmslore

1965 Posts

Posted - 07 Aug 2011 :  03:02:56  Show Profile Send Fellfire a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by ElaineCunningham

I posted a YouTube link on my facebook page to the High Kings performing the traditional Irish tune "The Wild Rover." It's one of several tunes I can never hear without battling the compulsion to compose bawdy filk versions from a dwarf woman's point of view. Last night a couple of verses broke free. This morning I woke up with several more, fully formed. Here they are, because why should I suffer alone?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JP4qSiJX3kQ


THE ELF LOVER

I'm a dwarf from Clan Disney (the lads from Snow White),
And I keep very busy the whole blessed night.
Then I got to thinking it might be sublime
To try seven inches, but all at one time.

CHORUS: But it's no, nay, never. No nay never no more
Will I take an elf lover. No, never no more.

So I left clan and tunnels for starlight and trees
And I picked up an elf with the greatest of ease.
Oh, gold were his tresses and blue were his eyes
And vast was his lust for a woman of size.

REPEAT CHORUS

They say elves are frisky. They say elves are great,
But I cannot be certain the durned elf was straight.
He read odes and sonnets my beauty to praise,
But no lips did he plunder, no skirts did he raise.

REPEAT CHORUS

He plied me with flowers and gemstones and song,
'Til I shrieked in frustration, "What's taking so long?"
"I know you're immortal, but this just won't do.
"Carry on--I'll be back in an hour or two."

REPEAT CHORUS

So he practiced his sonnets in front of the glass
And he primped and he preened like a pretty blond ass.
I went back to the clanhold some dwarf lads to find,
For I'll get there much faster one inch at a time.

REPEAT CHORUS



Absolutely priceless. Ah-hahaahahaaa

Misanthorpe

Love is a lie. Only hate endures. Light is blinding. Only in darkness do we see clearly.

"Oh, you think darkness is your ally? You merely adopted the dark. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn't see the light until I was already a man, by then it was nothing to me but.. blinding. The shadows betray you because they belong to me." - Bane The Dark Knight Rises

Green Dragonscale Dice Bag by Crystalsidyll - check it out

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ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author

2391 Posts

Posted - 12 Aug 2011 :  12:46:30  Show Profile  Visit ElaineCunningham's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I'm still in a writing blitz, so today's Free Fiction Friday offering is another "reprint."

In "Trophy Wives," the demon Lilith is alive and well and working as a divorce attorney in LA. It is, as you might well imagine, a quirky little tale.

http://www.elainecunningham.com/
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althen artren
Senior Scribe

USA
780 Posts

Posted - 12 Aug 2011 :  21:57:11  Show Profile Send althen artren a Private Message  Reply with Quote
A demon that's an attorney? That doesn't
take a true stretch of the imagination. Aclu
is filled with them. :)
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ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author

2391 Posts

Posted - 15 Aug 2011 :  12:50:14  Show Profile  Visit ElaineCunningham's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by althen artren

A demon that's an attorney? That doesn't
take a true stretch of the imagination. Aclu
is filled with them. :)



Fortunately, Lilith's profession is not the punchline. The title, "Trophy Wives," hints toward her agenda.
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ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author

2391 Posts

Posted - 26 Aug 2011 :  15:24:44  Show Profile  Visit ElaineCunningham's Homepage  Reply with Quote
There are two more stories on my website. Today's Free Fiction Friday is revised version of "Hidden Blades," an Arthurian tale I wrote a dozen years back. Last Friday's story was "Dead Men Tell No Tales," a ghost story set in early 18th century Newport, Rhode Island. This is one of my favorite stories, and imo one of my strongest.

I hope you enjoy them both.
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bladeinAmn
Learned Scribe

199 Posts

Posted - 28 Aug 2011 :  05:37:55  Show Profile  Visit bladeinAmn's Homepage Send bladeinAmn a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Re: Dead Men Tell No Tales

Upon your note, I read this last night w/note that you reckon it one of your strongest, and you weren't kidding. Very fulfilling read. SPOILER!: Well, very fulfilling other than the fact that the ending is very scary for the main character! Ha!

Re: Hidden Blades

I read it earlier this night, and while it's completely different from "Dead Men Tell No Tales," it's an equally strong short story. SPOILER!: Only here the ending was very fulfilling b/c the protagonist is easy to hate! LOL!

I took as much care to read both of them as I do the care I put in reading novels, and regardless if the reader is primarily a fan of Earth based stories or fantasy based stories, both of them are real satisfying. Like both take place on Earth, yet both of them gave me plenty of ideas for the goings-on of my Realms campaign, if my players ever venture into the lands where I put the inspiration I got from the stories here.

So excellent stuff, as usual! And the stuff you put between the stories on your site, too!

Edited by - bladeinAmn on 28 Aug 2011 05:38:48
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Thieran
Learned Scribe

Germany
293 Posts

Posted - 28 Aug 2011 :  11:43:34  Show Profile Send Thieran a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Two very good tales, thank you very much.
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ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author

2391 Posts

Posted - 30 Aug 2011 :  15:46:18  Show Profile  Visit ElaineCunningham's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Thanks for the kind words, gentlemen. BladeinAmn, I would agree that this Gwenhwyfar (variously spelled "Guinevere" and so on) is not the sweet, perfect Mary Sue one often encounters in Arthurian fiction. This is a very human Gwenhwyfar. She uses her beauty as a tool and a weapon; she is manipulative and self-absorbed. She might be stunned when she realizes that she's never thougth about Lancelot's life and history--that he was a PERSON and not just the object of her desire--but she didn't let this insight change her course of action in the slightest.
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