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froglegg
Learned Scribe
317 Posts |
 Posted - 03 Jul 2010 : 18:49:53
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http://www.amazon.com/dp/0786956291/ref=pe_606_16192250_pe_ar_t5
Couldn't they have used a new cover or something instead of playing on an old schooler's nostalgia? Or am I getting ill over nothing?
John
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Long live Alias and Dragonbait! Kate Novak and Jeff Grubb the Realms need you more then ever!
On my word as a sage nothing within these pages is false, but not all of it may prove to be true. - Elminster of Shadowdale
The Old Grey Box gets better with age! |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36803 Posts |
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Dark Wizard
Senior Scribe
USA
830 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jul 2010 : 18:57:32
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I have a feel it may just be a placeholder image. The old product and the new product happen to have the same name, some staffer probably just did an image search.
The product is still a good couple of months away. I would see WotC reusing covers and images from 3e and 4E before anything from the TSR days. They want to go for a more contemporary fantasy look so they can compete on a level more comparable to video games and what not. It also makes no sense for them to use a non-4E D&D logo as that is part of their current branding.
Even if they were releasing a retro product, I would still expect them to spruce up the cover a bit, reduce the solid color block, bigger cover art, etc. |
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3567 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jul 2010 : 21:04:53
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Now that put a nice new spin on 4e,   |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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Dracons
Learned Scribe
USA
299 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jul 2010 : 21:42:13
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Not to mention, even in third edition that had images that were different in style/color or even image from their final product.
I wouldn't worry. |
I love PMs! Please send me a message. Even if its Hi. |
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3243 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jul 2010 : 04:25:48
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I don't believe it's a placeholder image because a) the Wizards logo where the TSR logo used to be and b) there are a number of products being released AFTER the Starter kit that have their official images up.
Old Basic Set image
New Basic image |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
Edited by - Ashe Ravenheart on 04 Jul 2010 04:29:57 |
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Dark Wizard
Senior Scribe
USA
830 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jul 2010 : 04:58:53
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Didn't notice that. This definitely adds a bit more credence to a retro release.
Or it could just be an "official" placeholder image provided by WotC, who had the sense to replace their long defunct predecessor's logo with their own.
We will have to wait and see, definitely a product to keep an eye on, if just out of curiosity. |
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Ayunken-vanzan
Senior Scribe
Germany
657 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jul 2010 : 07:56:16
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| Amazon is infamous for using outdated placeholder art even after the final cover version has been released. I think it is the same here. |
"What mattered our lives now? When our world had been torn from us? Folk wept, or drank, or stood staring out over the land, wondering what new horror each dawn would bring."
Elender Stormfall of Suzail
"Anyone can kill deities, cause plagues, or destroy organizations. It takes real skill to make them live on."
Varl
FR/D&D-Links • 2ed Downloads |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36803 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jul 2010 : 13:24:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
I don't believe it's a placeholder image because a) the Wizards logo where the TSR logo used to be and b) there are a number of products being released AFTER the Starter kit that have their official images up.
Old Basic Set image
New Basic image
I did notice that... But since we've also seen new artwork used as a placeholder, I didn't pay too much attention to that fact. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Dark Wizard
Senior Scribe
USA
830 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jul 2010 : 21:06:35
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quote:
Originally posted by capnvan
quote:
Originally posted by Dark Wizard
Didn't notice that. This definitely adds a bit more credence to a retro release.
Retro's hard to do for the target market here. Kids and teenagers don't really have a sense of nostalgia - they're living their rose-colored memories.
Right, why I really doubt WotC decided on a retro look. |
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3243 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jul 2010 : 22:46:17
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yes, but they changed the descriptive text oun addition to the logo. Seems like too much for just a placeholder image.
The other thing I'd like to point out is that 4 upcoming releasea are box sets; when most in the industry have been saying box sets aren't profitable... |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
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Uzzy
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
618 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jul 2010 : 03:22:16
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| Unless they are targeting older, former players with a nostalgia trip, who might pick the game up again and play occasionally with the simpler rules and get their children into the game. Further, releasing it with the nostalgic cover does help counter some perceptions that 4th Edition has little to do with previous editions of D&D, and garners some kudos points among a sometimes hostile crowd. |
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Ayunken-vanzan
Senior Scribe
Germany
657 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jul 2010 : 15:32:42
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| This shows that it is the final cover indeed, so my speculation earlier in this scroll is proven to be wrong. Brimstone linked this in another scroll this afternoon. |
"What mattered our lives now? When our world had been torn from us? Folk wept, or drank, or stood staring out over the land, wondering what new horror each dawn would bring."
Elender Stormfall of Suzail
"Anyone can kill deities, cause plagues, or destroy organizations. It takes real skill to make them live on."
Varl
FR/D&D-Links • 2ed Downloads |
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3567 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jul 2010 : 21:39:02
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quote:
Originally posted by Uzzy
Unless they are targeting older, former players with a nostalgia trip, who might pick the game up again and play occasionally with the simpler rules and get their children into the game. Further, releasing it with the nostalgic cover does help counter some perceptions that 4th Edition has little to do with previous editions of D&D, and garners some kudos points among a sometimes hostile crowd.
Surely they have another reason??
If they think a picture will undo all that someone who dislikes 4e, dislikes about it....then Hasbro really has low, low opinions of their old customers. |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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froglegg
Learned Scribe
317 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jul 2010 : 23:51:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
I don't believe it's a placeholder image because a) the Wizards logo where the TSR logo used to be and b) there are a number of products being released AFTER the Starter kit that have their official images up.
Old Basic Set image
New Basic image
I dont think it's a placeholder eather. 
John |
Long live Alias and Dragonbait! Kate Novak and Jeff Grubb the Realms need you more then ever!
On my word as a sage nothing within these pages is false, but not all of it may prove to be true. - Elminster of Shadowdale
The Old Grey Box gets better with age! |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jul 2010 : 02:35:55
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Good Marketing...though its not going to put a dent in most people's aroused ire.
For me though, I'll probably buy it to start my kids in a new Greyhawk D&D game I'm planning. |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3567 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jul 2010 : 03:31:01
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quote:
Originally posted by froglegg
quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
I don't believe it's a placeholder image because a) the Wizards logo where the TSR logo used to be and b) there are a number of products being released AFTER the Starter kit that have their official images up.
Old Basic Set image
New Basic image
I dont think it's a placeholder eather.
John
Yeah definitely not a placeholder, I just got Jaliegh Johnson's UnbrokenChain, and int tha pages in the back is and ad that show that product with that cover. |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jul 2010 : 03:37:01
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Tokens?! 
They couldn't afford to toss-in a couple of craptastic plastic minis, like the ones that came in the old Dungeon game?
Spend 10 more cents per box, sell another 10,000 copies...
Who the hell is making decisions over there?
Dated artwork and NO little men to play with... that outta draw-in today's eye-candy loving kiddies. 
Ravenloft Boardgame? Do they mean vampiric Heroscape?
Just Ugh. 
I have four boys, so I think I am a VERY good gauge of what kids want, and that box AIN'T one of them. While I applaud their efforts to bring a little 'old school' into 4e, and think a boxed-set is a great idea, I think this is going to bomb. Why can't they seem to get anything right anymore???
A box with new, anime'-style artwork with magical explosions, and a little clear plastic spot in one corner, where you can SEE the plastic mini of Drizzt, included inside! (along with 6 more random minis from the minis they are already producing - get the little turds hooked!)
And seriously, no more random sets of minis - put them in clear plastic boxes the way EVERY OTHER LITTLE FIGURE is marketed (Yu-Gi-Oh, Supers, Pokemon, etc, etc). kids want what they can SEE. You know, like EXACTLY HOW THE HEROSCAPE MINIS ARE MARKETED! Hell, I can't even walk past those things without wanting a box! Or like McFarlane's Dragons - have you SEEN THOSE? Puts those D&D minis to SHAME; at about half the cost, too. I own about a dozen of them (still in the box), and they just make me want to touch myself.
I say we all chip-in and raise some money and buy those guys a clue; who's with me?
Then again, perhaps not.... |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 12 Jul 2010 03:51:28 |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jul 2010 : 05:50:36
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I'm all for buying folks a clue...
I missed the part with no minis...that doesn't make much sense; although it may be because the box looks rather slim... |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3243 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jul 2010 : 06:29:01
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Tokens?!
They couldn't afford to toss-in a couple of craptastic plastic minis, like the ones that came in the old Dungeon game?
Spend 10 more cents per box, sell another 10,000 copies...
Who the hell is making decisions over there?
Dated artwork and NO little men to play with... that outta draw-in today's eye-candy loving kiddies.
Ravenloft Boardgame? Do they mean vampiric Heroscape?
Just Ugh.
I have four boys, so I think I am a VERY good gauge of what kids want, and that box AIN'T one of them. While I applaud their efforts to bring a little 'old school' into 4e, and think a boxed-set is a great idea, I think this is going to bomb. Why can't they seem to get anything right anymore???
A box with new, anime'-style artwork with magical explosions, and a little clear plastic spot in one corner, where you can SEE the plastic mini of Drizzt, included inside! (along with 6 more random minis from the minis they are already producing - get the little turds hooked!)
And seriously, no more random sets of minis - put them in clear plastic boxes the way EVERY OTHER LITTLE FIGURE is marketed (Yu-Gi-Oh, Supers, Pokemon, etc, etc). kids want what they can SEE. You know, like EXACTLY HOW THE HEROSCAPE MINIS ARE MARKETED! Hell, I can't even walk past those things without wanting a box! Or like McFarlane's Dragons - have you SEEN THOSE? Puts those D&D minis to SHAME; at about half the cost, too. I own about a dozen of them (still in the box), and they just make me want to touch myself.
I say we all chip-in and raise some money and buy those guys a clue; who's with me?
Then again, perhaps not....
But it's got dice! 
Seriously though, I DO like the D&D dragons better than McFarlane's. Especially the 2' tall Colossal Red. Mine's named fluffy and I got to use her in a game. Scared the BEJEEBUS out of the players since it's to scale on the minis. |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3287 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jul 2010 : 06:31:49
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They are using tokens instead of mini's. Cost cutting move. Didn't WotC do a box with tokens during 3E? If so it's not new for them then.
I am interested in the Essentials. I have been calling it 4.5 Essentials. WotC has 4E against 4E Edition war brewing in there General Forums... |
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3243 Posts |
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3243 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jul 2010 : 08:16:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Brimstone
They are using tokens instead of mini's. Cost cutting move. Didn't WotC do a box with tokens during 3E? If so it's not new for them then.
I am interested in the Essentials. I have been calling it 4.5 Essentials. WotC has 4E against 4E Edition war brewing in there General Forums...
Okay, I had to go over to WotC boards to check that out (I haven't been to the general boards in almost two years). That is HILARIOUS!
I love the one thread that got closed that started with a guy asking if the Pathfinder boards had as many problems with people complaining about the products & infighting like the WotC boards do (which, I might add, they don't). |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36803 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jul 2010 : 11:16:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Brimstone
WotC has 4E against 4E Edition war brewing in there General Forums...
Wait... How do you have an edition war within one edition? |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3287 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jul 2010 : 11:34:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
There weren't any box sets in 3E/3.5, but there were some monster tokens floating around out there.
They had a 3E Starter Set.
In a big box with a Red Dragon, Lidda, Regdar, that ugly *** Elf Wizard Chick, and Jozan the Cleric of Pelor.
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3287 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jul 2010 : 11:38:09
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Brimstone
WotC has 4E against 4E Edition war brewing in there General Forums...
Wait... How do you have an edition war within one edition?
4E plus 4E Essentials = 4E VS 4E Edition War.
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3243 Posts |
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Dark Wizard
Senior Scribe
USA
830 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jul 2010 : 02:38:49
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I remember the 3e Starter boxed set. My younger cousin purchased it one day out of the blue. I ran him and his friend through the adventure included in the booklet. It wasn't bad, a bit cheap with the cardboard tokens and such, but it got the job done. It came with a set of generic but functional polyhedron dice, which is all you really need from the starter to keep playing after wards.
I really don't get where WotC expects to go with this newer retro set. Maybe they're hoping older players will get nostalgic, purchase the set and teach their kids. If that's the case, the experienced players could just as easily walk the new players with the actual rules.
As for 4E's "revamp," I thought that was the whole point of DDI, Encounters, and the annual players handbooks. The errata and edits are worked into the system steadily. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jul 2010 : 02:59:29
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4e vs 4.5? LMAO!!!!
I told everyone over there they should just wait for 5e...
A completely blank book where YOU write the rules!
quote:
Originally posted by Brimstone
They are using tokens instead of mini's. Cost cutting move. Didn't WotC do a box with tokens during 3E? If so it's not new for them then.
RIGHT....
But they are trying to market their minis - they make a lot higher percentage off them then they do sourcebooks, because the box they come in probably cost more then the 2¢ worth of Chinese plastic the minis are worth.
If you have a product you want people to become hooked on, you give some away - its just smart business. look what Paizo did with it's Pathfinder rules. Give kids a handful of those cool minis in the box, along with a booklet showing all the uber-kewl other minis they could purchase, and its pure win. Hasbro should know this - its how you market toys like Legos.
They also need to do a 'classic scenes' collection with the minis, like mico-machines did with Star Wars long ago - I still use some of those dioramas in my games.
Those bozos are sitting on a Goldmine, and they don't know how to use the damn IP!!! 
Also, Hasbro is famous for its cartoon-supported product lines - why don't we have a Legends of Drizzt cartoon? If its done well, like Avatar: The Last Airbender, we could eventually see a live-action flick.
Cartoons sell toys, and toys make the cartoon more popular, and the IP more lucrative, and eventually movies come out of it! Transformers, GI Joe, etc... Hello?! Is anyone over there awake? You could all be getting RICH!
{sigh}
Kids are the easiest group to manipulate - Hasbro should know this - why aren't any of its marketing people working with the WotC guys?
The art of the box is meant to target one group (old-Schoolers), while whats inside is meant to target a new, younger audience - you can't have it both ways - who are they targeting with this product? I realy feel like they are afraid to go 100% in any direction, and all they keep doing is slowly paddling in circles.
Pick a path and STICK WITH IT! You created 4e and the new Realms, embrace them and make them work - don't try to cash-in on Grognards by slapping some nostalgic piece of art on a 4e game.
There was a time I had wished they would 're-cant' 4e - pretend it was all just a bad dream or something, but at this point I want them to move forward - none of this mamby-pamby, wishy-washy decision making. Take the 4e Realms and BUILD ON IT, don't back-peddle... it just makes matters worse.
It truly is 'New Coke' all over again. I have a feeling we are going to see the Old Grey Box again, with 4e rules - something like 'Classic Realms'.
And guys who never worked on the original product will do a tiny bit of editing and slap their own names on it.
*Meh* |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 13 Jul 2010 04:17:36 |
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Ayunken-vanzan
Senior Scribe
Germany
657 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jul 2010 : 06:15:29
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| In this thread on the Paizo boards, one of the designers, Rodney Thompson, appears (beginning from here) and explains the new box. |
"What mattered our lives now? When our world had been torn from us? Folk wept, or drank, or stood staring out over the land, wondering what new horror each dawn would bring."
Elender Stormfall of Suzail
"Anyone can kill deities, cause plagues, or destroy organizations. It takes real skill to make them live on."
Varl
FR/D&D-Links • 2ed Downloads |
Edited by - Ayunken-vanzan on 13 Jul 2010 06:16:20 |
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3243 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jul 2010 : 14:03:20
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After reading through that thread (and a bunch of similar threads everywhere else), I keep coming back to a bit of the ... absurdness (the best word I can come up with) of the reasoning behind 4E Essentials.
The original reasoning behind 4th Edition was to clean up the rules to attract new players and cut the complexity that seemed to 'drown' players (their implied opinion, not mine). Now, a mere two years after its release, they have to simplify AGAIN to attract new players? At this rate, I feel that some of the jokes about a simplified 5E aren't as jokey at they were when made. |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
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What were they thinking?
