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Amarel Derakanor
Seeker
97 Posts |
 Posted - 15 Jun 2010 : 08:43:14
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Well met, scribes.
Recently, I became curious, and asked Woodwwad about his technique(s) for keeping his PC's together in another scroll. I had also asked for other GM's to chime in, if they wanted to, but in order to prevent that scroll from becoming untidy, I started a new one here(as requested). But then I had an idea. How about starting a scroll where GM's (or DM's, for that matter) could share any of their techniques for keeping the game flowing? Surely, Candlekeep must be *loaded* with experienced game-masters, and surely, this would be a great benefit, especially for those that lack it!
...In order to keep things neat, and easy to read, I must ask that any who feel obliged to participate keep their posts tidy, perhaps dealing with a single matter per post, or so. I'll go first, if no-one else beats me to it, that is.
//Amarel.
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woodwwad
Learned Scribe
USA
267 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jun 2010 : 00:19:43
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I'll start off by saying, to keep a game flowing the best thing to do is be prepaired. By that I mean the DM must do his homework. For example you are planning a combat your party vs. a group of followers of cyric, 1 illusionist, 2 clerics, 1 rogue, 1 barbarian & 2 warriors. You should have the characters all named, with treasure listed, stats done, spells worked out, round by round tactics (although you might not be able to use them) & of course create a reason why they are fighting your pcs. Now add in some more details, one has a limp, one a missing ear, ect. Decide what kind of weapons & armor they are using & what race they are (remember making mention of human subraces is a good idea), something as simple as throwing 1 half-wood elf half illuskan in with 6 full Illuskans can really catch the pcs attention. Make sure to give details to the red shirt (easily killed thugs as well as the 'leaders' so the pcs aren't sure which targets are 'important' & which are scrubs). I also like to work out at least a little dialogue for any fight, trust me, it'll help keep the action hot when the bad guys get lippy & make sure to let the pcs come back with their own. This example of course should be applied to all encounters not simply combat.
This really helps to keep flow as nothing will slow you down like having to look up stuff in the monster manual or phb, especially spells. But it is also super lame to find magic items that were totally not being used. For example if the bad guy had a magic item that he wasn't using, why not? Well if the answer is the DM just made it up after the fight that's pretty bad.
Hope these quick ideas are of some help. |
Check out my reviews on youtube of Forgotten Realms and other rpg products. http://www.youtube.com/user/woodwwad?feature=mhum |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jun 2010 : 06:49:08
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#1 rule - if you are hit with something unexpected DON'T spend tons of time looking stuff up. I fudge at least 50% of everything just to keep the game going. I've been in games where the GMs (and players) had their noses buried in books more then half the time, and it ruined to whole feel of the adventure.
The game is about a group of heroes out for a good romp, not about a bunch of rules-lawyers squeezing every drop from the books. Some of the funnest nights I had were down at the beach, where none of us had any books with us... or character sheets.
Its about having fun first - don't let the rules get in the way of that.  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Amarel Derakanor
Seeker
97 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jun 2010 : 08:41:40
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I was beaten to it!
Never the less... Stemming from the conversation I wrote about earlier, between me and Woodwwad, here are some tips for keeping people together.
For the sake of providing an interesting example:
Say that you have four players, and their characters are two Chondathan sisters from Berdusk (both Experts), a half-ogre Commoner (You read it right! A commoner!)from the Silver Marshes, and finally, an ogre-hating Mulani man (Thayvian Wizard). The campaign takes place in the Western Hearlands, and the characters start outside Baldur's Gate. I am going to assume that backstories have been created for every character, as well as a reason for them being outside the 'Gate. Also, apart from the sisters, the player's characters haven't met each other before.
Initially, only the two sisters have some incitement for traveling together (they are family, after all). But how would the half-ogre (and I'm thinking Pathfinder half-ogre here, ala Deliverance; inbred monster)and the ogre-hating Thayvian get along? Poorly. And out of those two, none have any apparent connection with the sisters. So, how will you, the GM, have them remain with each other as a "party"?
Some motivation must be added.
-I prefer the method of everyone knowing each other beforehand, since that simplifies relations a lot. They don't have to be friends, though. One could be employed by the other. Perhaps the half-ogre works for the Thayvian, for example. Then, of course, in order to continue to stick together, they need some sort of a common goal. An example of that could be that they are all employed as escorts (caravan guards, NOT the other kind)by traders.
-Necessity makes great mortar for a mixed group, as pointed out to me by Woodwwad in another thread. Say that none know each other from before but are all stranded on a deserted island? Scenarios that forces the characters together, regardless of backgrounds, works very well. Especially if their survival depends on it. |
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Sian
Senior Scribe
Denmark
596 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jun 2010 : 18:05:45
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| now i'm in the whole other trench than you Woodwadd ... while stuff should be roughly statted so you have an idea of how it'll go, then it should still be as loose as possable so it can be winged into anything needed ... i'm a big fan of GM'ing Indy Style ... i've noticed that if i write to much stuff down i get bugged down by the curveballs you allways get thrown by players. |
what happened to the queen? she's much more hysterical than usual
She's a women, it happens once a month |
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woodwwad
Learned Scribe
USA
267 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jun 2010 : 18:30:57
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quote:
Originally posted by Sian
now i'm in the whole other trench than you Woodwadd ... while stuff should be roughly statted so you have an idea of how it'll go, then it should still be as loose as possable so it can be winged into anything needed ... i'm a big fan of GM'ing Indy Style ... i've noticed that if i write to much stuff down i get bugged down by the curveballs you allways get thrown by players.
To me, I find having all your details prepaired in front of you, with a good grasp of how your character (the npc or npcs) will handle many different situations including combat really helps. If they deal with a powerful npc & they ask him a question about fey, I can look at his sheet & see that I did not give him any knowledge nature, so he'll be limited in the amount of info he can give out. Also, knowing the languages an npc can speak is massively helpful. I watch other DMs 'wing it' all the time & truth is I don't find it hard to notice that momentary pause to figure out if they want to go with a yes or no answer. For me the most important thing is to be able to suspend disbelief & enter the fantasy the group has created as fully as possible. I think that is were the rpg hobby becomes an art. I find that not being prepaired makes it much harder to reach this mental connection level.
Another idea I'll give is use pictures for your npcs. If anyone wants sites were they can find fantasy pics, I'd be happy to post a few. |
Check out my reviews on youtube of Forgotten Realms and other rpg products. http://www.youtube.com/user/woodwwad?feature=mhum |
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woodwwad
Learned Scribe
USA
267 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jun 2010 : 18:42:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
#1 rule - if you are hit with something unexpected DON'T spend tons of time looking stuff up. I fudge at least 50% of everything just to keep the game going. I've been in games where the GMs (and players) had their noses buried in books more then half the time, and it ruined to whole feel of the adventure.
The game is about a group of heroes out for a good romp, not about a bunch of rules-lawyers squeezing every drop from the books. Some of the funnest nights I had were down at the beach, where none of us had any books with us... or character sheets.
Its about having fun first - don't let the rules get in the way of that.
I will agree with that. In my last game I did have two pretty rules heavy players. Both very good players, who were fine with using my house rules but certainly liked to know the bonuses of this, that & the other thing. So if there was any rules question, I would push that piece of the game aside & focus on something else so the game was still running, while I had them look it up.
Also, another way to help keep the game running quicker is have one of your players record the initiative order. I started doing that for the first time last campaign & found it made running combat a lot easier since I never had to look at the initiative sheet or waste time writing it down in the first place. I roll my npcs & my pcs roll for themselves, then Blair would write the orders down & call them as the pcs went. |
Check out my reviews on youtube of Forgotten Realms and other rpg products. http://www.youtube.com/user/woodwwad?feature=mhum |
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mensch
Seeker
80 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jun 2010 : 15:04:40
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As a relatively new DM, the second Dungeon Master Guide for 3.5 edition was quite an eye-opener. The gamer stereotypes (storyteller, lurker, power gamer, etc.) are also quite amusing. Maybe I'm stating the obvious here, but the notion that the game is about your players and not about them being actors in an elaborate DM fantasy is still something which is easily overlooked, I think. The scroll about DM gripes contains a lot of stories about DMs who are running a game apparently solely for their own enjoyment. So in my campaign I try to have as much adventures based upon the characters personal histories, while an overall story unfolds in the background or when the players actively pursue it. I try to give them as much choice as possible, more or less like sandbox computer games like "The Elder Scrolls: Morrowind" or "Fallout 3". But without the tedious and typical "Fetch me 50 iron ore from a nearby mine, then kill all the rats in my cellar" type of quests and deliver this letter to another NPC, who will give you roughly the same quests to fetch different and utterly meaningless objects".
Two other rules I particularly like and try do adhere to as much as possible are, what RPG blogger ChattyDM calls "The Rule of Cool" and "Say Yes". He writes about it here on the Wizards website. For some reason I can't find the original article on his blog, but that bulleted list in the Wizards article sums it up nicely. |
Some say the world will end in fire, Some say in ice. From what I’ve tasted of desire I hold with those who favor fire. But if it had to perish twice, I think I know enough of hate to know that for destruction ice is also great and would suffice. – Robert Frost (1874 - 1963) |
Edited by - mensch on 18 Jun 2010 15:05:04 |
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jun 2010 : 15:09:35
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Know what your players enjoy and plan accordingly.
Also, whatever you have planned as the main course of action they are most likely to do, keep a few side encounters that can be easily placed anywhere depending on how/why/where they decide to surprise you (maybe like a short little common dungeon in case they don't follow the lead you had to have them chase the big bad murderer in town and instead decide to go treasure hunting in caves). Stuff like that. |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4702 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jun 2010 : 00:02:19
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"pictures are Evil"
There are tools that can be used, however sometimes they are railroading that players often do not like. As already indicated - know the players and the characters. Have side adventures that should scare a PC if doing it alone (bar fight, undead, rust monster, etc.) that they know they need help and are given a chance to retreat before death. Have the BEG make all of the PCs mad at him, that they have a common purpose for working together.
Others like use of fog, wind, rain also can be used if an PC decides to travel away from the party. These though tend to fall into the railroad perception (some times unfair as a DM certainly plans for different directions, however plans that entire party goes in the direction as opposed to a few, or only one).. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jun 2010 : 00:26:16
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I'm in both camps - I do a lot of planning, with maps all drawn out and lots of NPC personalities worked-in, and I know exactly how I want the game to go, right down to the last encounter (including the dramatic finish, which I will tend to fudge unnoticably to be somewhat more 'epic' for the player's enjoyment).
Then the session starts and the whole thing goes right out the window. The party decides to head in an unexpected direction, or get caught-up in something strange in-town (why I had to stop starting them in-town for awhile!), or do something else completely unexpected.. about 95% of the time.
i try to steer things back 'on track' as much as I can, but subtly, so players don't know I'm doing it. If they venture into something I hadn't even faintly imagined, then i have to make stuff up on the fly - which I've done, but I prefer to use things I've already worked-out.
So, if they don't get to the dead Wizard's lair and discover his old apprentice there ahead of them and fight to the death, then the head of the Highwayman gang that they did decide to go after just happens to be an apprentice wizard.. with the same name and stats as that other guy....
Nothing goes to waste - you just have to make little adjustments as the players play. I plan and plan and plan... and then it goes down very differently. Such is the life of a DM. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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mensch
Seeker
80 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jun 2010 : 09:34:06
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quote:
Originally posted by woodwwad
For me the music needs to be sense apropriate which means something heavy during combat (say fear factory, supultura, motorhead, ect), of course I also use theme songs for each of my pcs & for many of my top npcs (I used AC DC's Thunderstruck for a barbarian priest of Talos, David Bowie's It's only Forever for A-Ya Doon my choosen of Myrkul, ect), also playing creepy music (like Glen Danzig's Black Aria, anything by Nox Arcana, & so many soundtracks) can really help to build fear when the pcs come into an evil temple, & forbidding underdark passage or any other place you might want to add a bit of horror or fear.
Music is also always playing in the background of our games, but only instrumental music. I have a large collection of game soundtracks which are particularly suited for RPG sessions, more so than regular movie soundtracks. The soundtracks from The Witcher, Dragon Age: Origins, (World of) Warcraft, Mass Effect and the Baldur's Gate series are very good to set the mood. |
Some say the world will end in fire, Some say in ice. From what I’ve tasted of desire I hold with those who favor fire. But if it had to perish twice, I think I know enough of hate to know that for destruction ice is also great and would suffice. – Robert Frost (1874 - 1963) |
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woodwwad
Learned Scribe
USA
267 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jun 2010 : 17:40:08
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I'm in both camps - I do a lot of planning, with maps all drawn out and lots of NPC personalities worked-in, and I know exactly how I want the game to go, right down to the last encounter (including the dramatic finish, which I will tend to fudge unnoticably to be somewhat more 'epic' for the player's enjoyment).
Then the session starts and the whole thing goes right out the window. The party decides to head in an unexpected direction, or get caught-up in something strange in-town (why I had to stop starting them in-town for awhile!), or do something else completely unexpected.. about 95% of the time.
i try to steer things back 'on track' as much as I can, but subtly, so players don't know I'm doing it. If they venture into something I hadn't even faintly imagined, then i have to make stuff up on the fly - which I've done, but I prefer to use things I've already worked-out.
So, if they don't get to the dead Wizard's lair and discover his old apprentice there ahead of them and fight to the death, then the head of the Highwayman gang that they did decide to go after just happens to be an apprentice wizard.. with the same name and stats as that other guy....
Nothing goes to waste - you just have to make little adjustments as the players play. I plan and plan and plan... and then it goes down very differently. Such is the life of a DM.
One good trick is to have npcs that the pcs come to respect, like, love or otherwise want to help supply a few plot bits. I have an Illusionist in my game, so I worked his mentor into a certain aspect of the game, into one of the overarching plots of the game. Another important idea is, don't just have 1 or 2 plots, tehy might not interest your players. If you have a few hundred plots from small to large written before you start the game & these plots are attacted all over the place. To interesting npcs they meet, to common npcs they meet, to background characters, to the pcs backgrounds, then you'll hit something. Once you've figured out what your pcs are interested in, you can do even more work on the plots that they are currently following & the npcs that they click with. I think some of your might have thought that I was advocating not improving, this is of course something that you have to be able to do & you have to have a degree of flexiblity with your plots & ideas. Also, I keep founders of pics of just about anything I might need. I have clerics of just about every god in FR, wizards, monsters, adventurers, & rogues all ready to go, to drop into the game if the pcs somehow end up somewhere I havn't perpaired for. The other key to perpairing isn't just perpairing the town you want them to stay in, or the nights adventure in the ruins, wizards tower, ect, but everything close enough that there is any chance they could end up there. Have details on all the temples within 300 miles, all the wizards that live there, the monster conspiracies at play, where the dragons are & what their plans are, the rogues guild, the merchant guilds, who holds the local power, how all these politics play into & against each other & so many more aspects.
I disagree with the idea of plot fixing that you pointed out above. I catch DMs doing that from time to time & it lessons their game, as it damages the suspended disbelieve which really is everything. If the pcs miss a plot, let them, let them move on to something else (just make sure you have something else ready), this also gives a real sense of consequences & makes the pcs pay more attention as they know you, the DM, aren't holding their hand & walking them through the game. I do so much work that there is no way the pcs would ever be able to do even close to everything, & some plots they'll never even hear about, some they will. This gives the world I run a feeling of being alive, if there are things happening around the pcs that they can choose to get involved in or not or hear about later, they'll know they aren't the only thing in the world, which makes the world easier to believe in.
It is a good note you mention though, if you are trying to get the pcs to do something, you really do need to be subtle. So I think that's good advice for new DMs. |
Check out my reviews on youtube of Forgotten Realms and other rpg products. http://www.youtube.com/user/woodwwad?feature=mhum |
Edited by - woodwwad on 23 Jun 2010 17:56:23 |
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woodwwad
Learned Scribe
USA
267 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jun 2010 : 17:58:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
"pictures are Evil"
There are tools that can be used, however sometimes they are railroading that players often do not like.
You want to explain what you mean here about pictures & are you saying that pcitures railroad pcs & they don't like them? I'm a bit lost. |
Check out my reviews on youtube of Forgotten Realms and other rpg products. http://www.youtube.com/user/woodwwad?feature=mhum |
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woodwwad
Learned Scribe
USA
267 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jun 2010 : 18:00:08
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quote:
Originally posted by mensch
quote:
Originally posted by woodwwad
For me the music needs to be sense apropriate which means something heavy during combat (say fear factory, supultura, motorhead, ect), of course I also use theme songs for each of my pcs & for many of my top npcs (I used AC DC's Thunderstruck for a barbarian priest of Talos, David Bowie's It's only Forever for A-Ya Doon my choosen of Myrkul, ect), also playing creepy music (like Glen Danzig's Black Aria, anything by Nox Arcana, & so many soundtracks) can really help to build fear when the pcs come into an evil temple, & forbidding underdark passage or any other place you might want to add a bit of horror or fear.
Music is also always playing in the background of our games, but only instrumental music. I have a large collection of game soundtracks which are particularly suited for RPG sessions, more so than regular movie soundtracks. The soundtracks from The Witcher, Dragon Age: Origins, (World of) Warcraft, Mass Effect and the Baldur's Gate series are very good to set the mood.
Glad to hear someone else uses music. I use that sort of music as well, to use only that sort of music is a bit limiting but overall it is much better than nothing. Certainly helps with the mood. |
Check out my reviews on youtube of Forgotten Realms and other rpg products. http://www.youtube.com/user/woodwwad?feature=mhum |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4702 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jun 2010 : 20:33:09
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quote:
Originally posted by woodwwad
quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
"pictures are Evil"
There are tools that can be used, however sometimes they are railroading that players often do not like.
You want to explain what you mean here about pictures & are you saying that pcitures railroad pcs & they don't like them? I'm a bit lost.
The two statements are unrelated.
I happen to quote a user that found pictures a distraction when using the net. On dial up the use a a picture slowed down load time greatly in order to read the text.
Then I went on to discuss railroading and that is not something that should be done. Actually the use of pictures during a game can certainly be useful, sometimes necessary. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Game-Master Technique Scroll
