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Sill Alias
Senior Scribe
Kazakhstan
588 Posts |
 Posted - 29 May 2010 : 08:11:30
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I had some doubts about this spell. It is says in description it heals completely and recovers all ailments. In some games it could cure mind diseases. Why then there are so much problems? Does this spell have faults or it is just not all clerics chose healing domain to get it at 4th level instead of 6th?
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You can hear many tales from many mouths. The most difficult is to know which of them are not lies. - Sill Alias
"May your harp be unstrung, your dreams die and all your songs be unsung." - curse of the harper, The Code of the Harpers 2 ed.
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Edited by - Sill Alias on 29 May 2010 08:28:04
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Tyranthraxus
Senior Scribe
Netherlands
423 Posts |
Posted - 29 May 2010 : 08:25:53
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I'm working ATM and don't have have any books at hand, but IIRC the heal spell heals to a max of 150 hp.
Heal may cure natural diseases and some lesser magic afflictions but I guess it doesn't heal effects caused by higher level spells. I could be wrong of course and I'll check it up when I'm home. |
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Joran Nobleheart
Senior Scribe
USA
495 Posts |
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Tyranthraxus
Senior Scribe
Netherlands
423 Posts |
Posted - 29 May 2010 : 10:21:58
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quote:
Originally posted by Joran Nobleheart
Here's the spell, if it helps at all. 
Heal
I forgot about the d20srd! |
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Joran Nobleheart
Senior Scribe
USA
495 Posts |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 29 May 2010 : 15:30:51
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quote:
Originally posted by Sill Alias
I had some doubts about this spell. It is says in description it heals completely and recovers all ailments. In some games it could cure mind diseases. Why then there are so much problems? Does this spell have faults or it is just not all clerics chose healing domain to get it at 4th level instead of 6th?
There's that, and there's also the fact that a lot of cleric NPCs don't get very high in levels. For every level 20 high priest, there are dozens -- if not hundreds -- of clerics who are level 10 or lower. And of those, the majority will be lower.
So there's just not going to be all that many clerics capable of casting Heal. Most of them would only be able to cast it once or twice a day...
So in a large city, you'd prolly be doing good to have a hundred clerics -- across all faiths -- capable of casting the spell. There's only so much that such a small number can do for so many. And not all of them are going to be willing to cast a spell like that to get rid of pneumonia or something like that -- at least, not without a donation, and/or not for someone who doesn't follow their deity. |
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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 29 May 2010 15:31:24 |
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Sill Alias
Senior Scribe
Kazakhstan
588 Posts |
Posted - 29 May 2010 : 19:14:19
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| So, you can heal the insanity of villains before thinking of smiting them? |
You can hear many tales from many mouths. The most difficult is to know which of them are not lies. - Sill Alias
"May your harp be unstrung, your dreams die and all your songs be unsung." - curse of the harper, The Code of the Harpers 2 ed.
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Knight of the Gate
Senior Scribe
USA
624 Posts |
Posted - 29 May 2010 : 19:48:39
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| My rule on all curative magic is this: You can't 'cure' nature- i.e. you can't cure a congenital defect, nor can you cure aging. So, if you have a villain that is ebil because he saw his parents murdered by corrupt guardsmen and his mind snapped... then a Heal spell might undo the damage (of course, reliving the experience through dreams or memories might make him insane again, over time) but if he was just 'born crazy' then, no dice. Similarly with (say) blindness- if you are blinded by a spell or by physical damage to your eyes, a heal spell will straighten you out, but if you were born blind, no such luck. Just my two cents. |
How can life be so bountiful, providing such sublime rewards for mediocrity? -Umberto Ecco |
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Sill Alias
Senior Scribe
Kazakhstan
588 Posts |
Posted - 29 May 2010 : 19:59:38
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| Now a new question. Can you live on positive plane? What effect will it have on you? Can you live forever? |
You can hear many tales from many mouths. The most difficult is to know which of them are not lies. - Sill Alias
"May your harp be unstrung, your dreams die and all your songs be unsung." - curse of the harper, The Code of the Harpers 2 ed.
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Cleric Generic
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
565 Posts |
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2449 Posts |
Posted - 29 May 2010 : 20:40:11
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| Nope. Without protection you go kablooey in three rounds or less after entering the Positive anywhere as all your molecules reach their ultimate potential instantaneously. Though there have been instances of dwellings (Finder's prison comes to mind) on the Positive that keep the elemental stuff at bay and use its, well, radiance for lack of a better term, to grant immortal life. |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
Edited by - Hoondatha on 29 May 2010 20:41:46 |
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Artemel
Learned Scribe
USA
110 Posts |
Posted - 30 May 2010 : 01:26:37
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About insanity... the spell Heal only cures magically induced insanity, the more mundane versions will not be wiped out with one spell.
Positive energy plane... you get healing every round, can go over your max, and go BOOM! when you hit double your max hp. At least, that's what happened in one of my friends older 2e campaigns. May not be right, but boy was it funny. Death by healing! -_- |
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Sill Alias
Senior Scribe
Kazakhstan
588 Posts |
Posted - 30 May 2010 : 05:25:17
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| In BG2:ToB I remember Yakman, crazy elf who wandered in the keep labyrinth. I think his craziness was not induced by magic. |
You can hear many tales from many mouths. The most difficult is to know which of them are not lies. - Sill Alias
"May your harp be unstrung, your dreams die and all your songs be unsung." - curse of the harper, The Code of the Harpers 2 ed.
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Laerrigan
Learned Scribe
USA
195 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jun 2010 : 03:29:31
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| As for me, I go with what's been said about heal not fixing congenital problems or "natural" mental illness. Even if the spell might help someone with unnaturally-induced insanity (such as a ghost might cause with its touch), I don't let it make for an instant, total, absolute end to all troubles. Especially since I like to have unnaturally-induced insanity play off of something that already exists in the character's psyche---all it does it inflate that aspect to the breaking point so it becomes life-impairing. You know, like real mental problems. After a heal spell, there can still be scarring in the form of nightmares, easy regression, aversions, self-disgust or frustration or embarrassment, etc., all of which can cause further complications without proper time and treatment. I just don't like instant fixes to interesting problems, which is what it becomes if you happen to have someone in your party (or a contact) who can cast heal as a panacea. But then, I like Ravenloft . |
"Your 'reality,' sir, is lies and balderdash, and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever." (Baron Munchausen)
"If I find in myself a desire which no experience in this world can satisfy, the most probable explanation is that I was not made for this world." (C.S. Lewis, "Surprised by Joy") |
Edited by - Laerrigan on 05 Jun 2010 03:30:55 |
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Zanan
Senior Scribe
Germany
942 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jun 2010 : 13:29:54
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| Never encountered any problem with Heal, though I never had a cleric (PC or NPC) with the Healing domain either,then again, my Healing domain says 6th level spell too. I do have problem with the Mass Heal stuff, for there is no vile counter like Mass Harm. Hence I kindly decline the Mass Heal version, though there are a number of options at lower level too. And then there is Channel Energy in Pathfinder too ... |
Cave quid dicis, quando et cui!
Gæð a wyrd swa hio scel!
In memory of Alura Durshavin.
Visit my "Homepage" to find A Guide to the Drow NPCs of Faerûn, Drow and non-Drow PrC and much more. |
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rjfras
Learned Scribe
261 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jun 2010 : 13:48:03
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quote:
Originally posted by Sill Alias
I had some doubts about this spell. It is says in description it heals completely and recovers all ailments. In some games it could cure mind diseases. Why then there are so much problems? Does this spell have faults or it is just not all clerics chose healing domain to get it at 4th level instead of 6th?
What edition are you using? In 3.5 Heal is 6th on the Healing Domain and Cure Critical Wounds is 4th level. |
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Kilvan
Senior Scribe
Canada
894 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jun 2010 : 15:07:41
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| I think that the NVN2 serie allowed you to cast some domain spells at a lower level. For example, you could cast Divine Power as a 3rd level spell (instead of a 4th level) if you chose the strenght domain. I think it applied to the Heal spell in the healing domain as well. For the record, it is not a bad idea. |
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Sill Alias
Senior Scribe
Kazakhstan
588 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jun 2010 : 21:19:01
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quote:
Originally posted by rjfras
quote:
Originally posted by Sill Alias
I had some doubts about this spell. It is says in description it heals completely and recovers all ailments. In some games it could cure mind diseases. Why then there are so much problems? Does this spell have faults or it is just not all clerics chose healing domain to get it at 4th level instead of 6th?
What edition are you using? In 3.5 Heal is 6th on the Healing Domain and Cure Critical Wounds is 4th level.
OOPS! Sorry, used the system of NWN. It happens to me. |
You can hear many tales from many mouths. The most difficult is to know which of them are not lies. - Sill Alias
"May your harp be unstrung, your dreams die and all your songs be unsung." - curse of the harper, The Code of the Harpers 2 ed.
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The Simbul
Learned Scribe
173 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jun 2010 : 06:41:28
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I am fairly certain that Heal can cure mundane insanity. If it was limited to purely magical instances then it would either list insanity in italics (like it does for confused and feeblemindedness) or it would specifically state such a limitation in the adjoining sentences.
Furthermore, you can argue that being born blind is just as much as an affliction as having it occur as a later injury. Likewise, with regard to insanity from life experiences, it can be argued that your mind was not strong enough to overcome the experience and that a heal spell reverses the damage.
I think going to extensive lengths of logic to create limitations on a spell or game feature beyond its written text serves only to over-complicate the game and punish players for making certain spell choices. Honestly, being a cleric in 2E-3E is enough of a boredom-inducing chore when half your actions are spent healing everyone else in the party. |
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Sill Alias
Senior Scribe
Kazakhstan
588 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jun 2010 : 12:33:39
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I like that idea. But my cleric is more like a battle machine to rain divine death with necromancy. Healing may not even be needed if you strike first and strongly.
Did someone used heal on undead? I mean, come on, what is the point? Is't it better to smash them instantly with undeath to death instead of hurting them to 1-6 hp? |
You can hear many tales from many mouths. The most difficult is to know which of them are not lies. - Sill Alias
"May your harp be unstrung, your dreams die and all your songs be unsung." - curse of the harper, The Code of the Harpers 2 ed.
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Laerrigan
Learned Scribe
USA
195 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jun 2010 : 22:22:51
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Of course the spell description doesn't limit its applications in such ways, but there can be reasons for limiting it from outside. I'm merely offering experience and suggestions for handling it in a way that doesn't instantly make everything better when it could be much more interesting for all involved if it doesn't.
It depends on what kind of game DM and players are interested in. Mine is light on combat and heavy on RP and personal developments for characters, focusing more on the times in between being attacked or attacking things; my own PC can use heal, but it's more fun all around to leave room for more mundane resources to be valuable (particularly in one enjoyable NPC we have), and for there to be processes rather than instant-fixes. If the game were more centered on heavy dungeon-crawling and had more straightforward dangers and resolutions, heal would be more in-place as a quick "Ok, whatever it was, you're better, now let's get back to it" sort of thing. Personally, I think RAW heal (and some other spells) are too all-powerful and take some of the fun out of playing higher-level characters (since it simply makes sense for them to acquire such spells if they're available), but then, I don't like having people hopping about all over the place with teleports either, getting past defenses and out of tight situations without really addressing issues or traversing the interesting possibilities between places (and I play a high-level wizard). To each his own.
Sill---Using heal on undead is one heck of a way to prove a point and get their attention without completely destroying them . Though I guess the degree of impact would depend in part on whether your game gives intelligent undead any sense of pain whatsoever, lol. Again, "more fun/interesting" comes into play to add flesh and life to bare-bones rules, and even shake-ups for players/PCs who think they know everything inside-out and backwards as if life and the multiverse are that predictable  . Chopping off a vampire's hand with a throwing axe and having him shout "OW! DAMMIT!!" and throw a table at you out of pain and pique while his hand regrows....So much more fun for some of us than him having no reaction and continuing as before without a blink. And heal would bring a bigger reaction  . Though it wouldn't be actually disabling, the way it could be for a living human to be suddenly reduced to 1-6 HP in a single blow.
Oh wait, did I say fun? Never mind, Eflir doesn't know what that is.... |
"Your 'reality,' sir, is lies and balderdash, and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever." (Baron Munchausen)
"If I find in myself a desire which no experience in this world can satisfy, the most probable explanation is that I was not made for this world." (C.S. Lewis, "Surprised by Joy") |
Edited by - Laerrigan on 06 Jun 2010 22:26:30 |
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Sill Alias
Senior Scribe
Kazakhstan
588 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jun 2010 : 05:24:16
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Yeah, healing used like that can be made a torture for an intelligent undead.
Healing is too powerful to rely on it completely. I find it really not fair when you defeat the super monster only because your fighter cannot die right with priest casting heal every time. Not my style.
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You can hear many tales from many mouths. The most difficult is to know which of them are not lies. - Sill Alias
"May your harp be unstrung, your dreams die and all your songs be unsung." - curse of the harper, The Code of the Harpers 2 ed.
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Heal - absolute panacea?
