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Galuf the Dwarf
Senior Scribe
USA
620 Posts |
 Posted - 07 May 2010 : 23:07:42
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Hello, folks. I finally got able to log back in here after a long absence...
Anyways, I don't know if this is the right forum to place this in, but here it goes... So, any clue about the following concerning the Gray Dwarves in official 4th Edition lore?
1) What is their relation to other Dwarf subraces, namely with how there has been an alliance between the Duergar-led Army of Steel and the Gold Dwarf-led Army of Gold attempting to retake Shanatar? Is there still much hostility as a whole?
2) Do the Duergar worship any live deities with the deaths of Laduger and Deep Duerra? I would think possibly Bane or Asmodeus, but unless it is officially stated somewhere, I don't see how it could be done.
Thanks in advance.
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Galuf's Baldur's Gate NPC stats: forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=8823
Galuf's 3.5 Ed. Cleric Domains: forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=14036
Galuf's Homebrew 4th Edition Races: forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=13787
Galuf's Homebrew Specialty Priest PrCs: forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=14353
Galuf's Forgotten Realms Heralds and Allies thread: forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=8766 |
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Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
Posted - 08 May 2010 : 03:29:28
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As far as I am aware, the distinction is one of appearance only; the duergar who still embrace evil likely follow Asmodeus or Bane, or some other evil (formerly LE) deity, while those who have embraced their return to the main dwarven fold worship Moradin et al. Basically, duergar in 4E are just dwarves who look different; there is no game-mechanic difference at all from what little I've read, but I don't play 4E, so maybe someone who does can provide some more information (and correction where necessary).  |
Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
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Cleric Generic
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
565 Posts |
Posted - 08 May 2010 : 10:47:00
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| I don't remember any specific references to them off the top of my head, and neither of the Duergar deities appear to be listed in the FRCG on the Gods and Exarchs table. You could easily enough make them Exarchs of Asmodeus or whoever else you fancy. But anyway, they seem to have been largely omitted from the 4e books, which doesn't invalidate old lore, and they might get a look in with a DDI article. |
Cedric! The Cleric Generic and Master of Disguise!
ALL HAIL LORD KARSUS!!!
Vast Realmslore Archive: Get in here and download everything! http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/archfr/rl
2e Realms book PDFs; grab em! - http://poleandrope.blogspot.com/2010/07/working-around-purge.html |
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Razz
Senior Scribe
USA
749 Posts |
Posted - 09 May 2010 : 05:34:05
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I beg to differ, as do many others, but there is plenty of material in 4E that invalidates or contradicts previous lore.
Galuf, good sir, call the world of the 4E Realms a "What If?" or like how there's a difference between Amazing Spider-Man and Ultimate Spider-Man lines of comic books, and that's pretty much the same exact way it is with pre-4E Realms and post-4E Realms. |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4438 Posts |
Posted - 09 May 2010 : 19:29:51
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quote:
Originally posted by Galuf the Dwarf
Anyways, I don't know if this is the right forum to place this in, but here it goes... So, any clue about the following concerning the Gray Dwarves in official 4th Edition lore?
Well they weren't really mentioned in the FRCG or FRPG. I don't think they got love in any DDI articles as of yet.
quote:
Originally posted by Galuf the Dwarf
1) What is their relation to other Dwarf subraces, namely with how there has been an alliance between the Duergar-led Army of Steel and the Gold Dwarf-led Army of Gold attempting to retake Shanatar? Is there still much hostility as a whole?
I don't think there is any canon material but I'd make the assumption that they still don't get along. Just because Deep Duerra and Laduguer have died doesn't mean the Duergar are all nice and chipper now. They're mostly evil as ever (probably more so with thier two most prominent deities gone).
quote:
Originally posted by Galuf the Dwarf
2) Do the Duergar worship any live deities with the deaths of Laduger and Deep Duerra? I would think possibly Bane or Asmodeus, but unless it is officially stated somewhere, I don't see how it could be done.
I could see them worshipping Bane, the god of war and strife. They're a militaristic culture (as far and I know) and they tend to believe in tyranny for rulership.
Also, I could see many of them turn to Dumathoin and Vergadain if they're not dead (i honestly can't remember). Though neither deity is truely evil, they both have qualties that the Duergar people connect with such as Caverns, Metal, Knowledge, and Protection from Dumathoin and Trade and Trickery from Vergadain.
And if all else fails, then just make it up as you go. Theres nothing wrong with that.
As for Duergar's physical characteristics and game mechanics, they do vary from the dwarves of the PHB. Though they gain the same ability bonuses (+2 Con, +2 Wis), they have a speed of 6 (dwarves have a speed of 5) and they have Darkvision (dwarves have low-light vision). Duergar only get the +2 Dungeoneering (while dwarves get +2 Dungeoneering and +2 Endurance). Duergar gain Common, Dwarven, and Deep Speech (dwarves only get Common, Dwarven). And Duergar gain a Racial Encounter Power called Infernal Quills. In 4E, Duergar have sharp (sometimes poisonous) quills in their hair and beards that allow them to shoot at a target as a minor action.
While I think the dwarven stats are a bit better, Duergar have their uses and unique flavor. Also, you can find homebrew content that furthers the benefits of Duergar such as a power that makes them grow like the old 3.5 Enlarge Person spell and powers that might make them invisible like the old 3.5 invisibility spell. One site is here-----> http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/4e_Races
Hope some of this helps. |
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Galuf the Dwarf
Senior Scribe
USA
620 Posts |
Posted - 12 May 2010 : 15:55:52
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Well, all this info seems to help immensely.
The thing is, I was considering taking a shot at a 4th Edition PHB-style profile of them at some point (once college is over with), so this gives me ideas. Much thanks, folks.  |
Galuf's Baldur's Gate NPC stats: forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=8823
Galuf's 3.5 Ed. Cleric Domains: forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=14036
Galuf's Homebrew 4th Edition Races: forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=13787
Galuf's Homebrew Specialty Priest PrCs: forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=14353
Galuf's Forgotten Realms Heralds and Allies thread: forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=8766 |
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Galuf the Dwarf
Senior Scribe
USA
620 Posts |
Posted - 18 May 2010 : 05:40:18
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Well, on reading at least the 4th Edition Monster Manual 2 description of the Duergar, and past replies, here's what I would think would work at least to justify the way Duergar are presented in the afformentioned manual. I've drawn this plan out in steps.
1) Following the deaths of Ladugar and Deep Duerra, the Duergar race, especially the more divine=oriented parts of the entire race, were reeling from the loss of their patron deities and began finding succor in the worship of devils, particularly Asmodeus following the great archdevil's divine ascension.
2) Duergar have been known in the past edition(s) to intermingle with devils, resulting in Durzagons. The Spellplague may have caused Durzagon bloodlines to strangely interlace with pure-blooded Duergar geneology, bringing on the quill traits in Duergar, at least with how male Gray Dwarves are pictured in the 4th Ed. MM2 with having quills in their beards, and Durzagons are noted for having beards that could secrete poison.
OR
Asmodeus came to recognize the Duergar as a potential vehicle for further conquests in the mortal realm, at least in colonizing the Underdark and therefor strengthening his hold on the Prime Material Plane. In such, Asmodeus began granting powers to Duergar and giving them a new divine (or Infernal) purpose. Illithid-bred powers such as Expansion and Invisibility may have faded due to both the Spellplague and the acquisition of infernal power.
So far, this is what I've been looking at for my own homebrew non-psionic stats for them, at least as much as I understand 4th Edition now, and drawing from 3.5 Edition Duergar stats. I'll probably give them psionic-friendly stats after I get a copy of the Player's Handbook 3. Changes I made are in red.
Duergar
Average Height: 4'2"-4'8"
Average Weight: 160-220 lb.
Ability Scores: +2 Dexterity, +2 Constitution
Size: Medium
Speed: 6 Squares
Vision: Darkvision
Language: Common, Deep Speech, Dwarven
Skill Bonuses: +2 Dungeoneering, +2 Stealth
Cast Iron Stomach: As per the Dwarf entry in PHB.
Dwarven Resilience: As per the Dwarf entry in PHB.
Encumbered Speed: As per the Dwarf entry in PHB.
Infernal Quills: As per the MM2.
Play a Duergar if you want...
- to be rough, dour and harsh as cavern stone.
- to bring vengeance upon your detractors from the shadows of the Underdark.
- to be able to fight from in front or behind with melee might, or from afar with infernal power.
- to play a race that favors the fighter, rogue and warlock classes.
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Galuf's Baldur's Gate NPC stats: forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=8823
Galuf's 3.5 Ed. Cleric Domains: forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=14036
Galuf's Homebrew 4th Edition Races: forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=13787
Galuf's Homebrew Specialty Priest PrCs: forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=14353
Galuf's Forgotten Realms Heralds and Allies thread: forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=8766 |
Edited by - Galuf the Dwarf on 18 May 2010 05:48:34 |
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Galuf the Dwarf
Senior Scribe
USA
620 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jun 2010 : 04:38:13
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Well, I recently got a copy of the PHB3, so here's the psionic stats I came up with.
Duergar (Psionic)
Average Height: 4'2"-4'8"
Average Weight: 160-220 lb.
Ability Scores: +2 Constitution, +2 Wisdom
Size: Medium
Speed: 6 Squares
Vision: Darkvision
Language: Common, Deep Speech, Dwarven
Skill Bonuses: +2 Dungeoneering, +2 Arcana
Cast Iron Stomach: As per the Dwarf entry in PHB.
Dwarven Resilience: As per the Dwarf entry in PHB.
Encumbered Speed: As per the Dwarf entry in PHB.
Infernal Quills: As per the MM2.
Play a Duergar if you want
to be rough, dour and harsh as cavern stone.
to bring vengeance upon your detractors from the shadows of the Underdark.
to be able to fight from in front with melee might, or from afar with divine or psionic power.
to play a race that favors the battlemind, psion, and runepriest classes. |
Galuf's Baldur's Gate NPC stats: forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=8823
Galuf's 3.5 Ed. Cleric Domains: forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=14036
Galuf's Homebrew 4th Edition Races: forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=13787
Galuf's Homebrew Specialty Priest PrCs: forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=14353
Galuf's Forgotten Realms Heralds and Allies thread: forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=8766 |
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About the Duergar race post-Spellplague *spoilers*
