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Originally posted by ElaineCunningham

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Originally posted by Genis

I feel like we aren't being excited enough about chatting with random authors like it's nothing.

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Nice! Let's try that on a business card....

Elaine Cunningham, Random Author

I like it. It's better than my fallback, which is "Obscure Midlist Author."

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Originally posted by ElaineCunningham

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Originally posted by Genis

I feel like we aren't being excited enough about chatting with random authors like it's nothing.

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Nice! Let's try that on a business card....

Elaine Cunningham, Random Author

I like it. It's better than my fallback, which is "Obscure Midlist Author."

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Originally posted by Kajehase

I'd agree with Strahd_zaf on the translation of words that have meaning (although Waterdeep is a bit of a problem for me - translating to Swedish I can either go with Vattendjup, which really is more like Water Depth; or Djupvatten, which while good sounds like a flyspeck village in the deepest forests in northern Sweden rather than one of five largest cities in Faerûn) - if I know what a (not real-world) place-name in a different language means, and that word is used in a Swedish sentence it just sticks out like a sore thumb.

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Originally posted by Kilvan

What I don't like about french FR products is that they translate everything they can, even the stuff the shouldn't, like city names. Waterdeep became Eauprofonde (water = eau, deep = profonde) or Battlehammer became Marteaudeguerre (which would mean warhammer), and I think its awful. Other stuff they changed simply to match how the word sounds, like Bane became Baine and Faerun became Féérune. Like with movies, I prefer to stick to the original version to avoid losing stuff in the translation.

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Originally posted by Kilvan

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Originally posted by Kajehase

I'd agree with Strahd_zaf on the translation of words that have meaning (although Waterdeep is a bit of a problem for me - translating to Swedish I can either go with Vattendjup, which really is more like Water Depth; or Djupvatten, which while good sounds like a flyspeck village in the deepest forests in northern Sweden rather than one of five largest cities in Faerûn) - if I know what a (not real-world) place-name in a different language means, and that word is used in a Swedish sentence it just sticks out like a sore thumb.

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I agree, and I could have given many more examples: Silverhand became Maindargent, Bonaduce became Bonadieu, Many-Arrows became Maintes-Flêches (this last one is ok, since that would be an earned name, or a nickname, and not a family name per se).

I do approve of any other translations, like the organizations (Night's Masks = Masques de la nuit, Harpers = Ménestrels, Red Wizards = Magiciens rouges etc..). I don't know, I just think that city names and people names should not be translated, just like elvish names should not be translated to english (for those who do have an english equivalent).

I don't think we should do it in the real world either. I mean, why is Deutschland translated into Germany in english and Allemagne in french?? If your name is Peter, its gonna stay Peter in all language, you don't want it translated. Just my two cents, back to topic

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Originally posted by Tyranthraxus

I also own the 2e FRCS box in german. They changed some of the names, but it doesn't bother me that much. It sometimes makes it easier for to translate these names in dutch.

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Originally posted by Jorkens

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Originally posted by Tyranthraxus

I also own the 2e FRCS box in german. They changed some of the names, but it doesn't bother me that much. It sometimes makes it easier for to translate these names in dutch.

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I can think of a couple of Realms names that definitely have to be would have to be changed in a Norwegian translation too. That's the problem with names, there is always the chance that they become completely ridiculous in other languages.

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Originally posted by ElaineCunningham
::nods:: Conversely, fantasy frequently employs words from other languages, with results that are amusing or disconcerting to those who speak those languages. A recent example from the Pathfinder world is the use of "the Jadwiga" as a name for the descendants of Baba Yaga who rule the land of Irrisen. To someone who speaks Polish (or reads history), that's like calling a group of nobly-born witches "the Elizabeths."

<snip>

There's also the chance that a newly invented fantasy name is going to have unfortunate connotations. A prime example of this is the new name for the SciFi channel: SyFy. I was familiar with that word thanks to one of my favorite books: Polish Obscenities. (Very colorful. The language has a marvelous flare for euphemisms.) So, a scince fiction channel named SyFY made me twitch a bit.
<snip>

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Originally posted by Kajehase

Not to mention two of my uncles make an appearance in Windwalker

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Originally posted by ElaineCunningham

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Originally posted by Kajehase

Not to mention two of my uncles make an appearance in Windwalker

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Heh. Well, not too surprising, seeing that Windwalker used a bunch of real-world names, and borrowed quite heavily from Nordic and Slavic lore. For a few years, I leaned toward real-world names: Bronwyn, Tzigone, Fyodor. I don't regret doing so, exactly, but going forward I will be using newly invented names that are consistent with the nomenclature Ed Greenwood established for the Realms.

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Originally posted by Wooly Rupert


Those names don't stand out as much to an American reader, though -- at least not to one who hasn't paid much attention to his/her ancestry. I'd seen the name Bronwyn before, but I had no idea Tzigone or Fyodor were names in other languages. It's a sad fact that most Americans don't have the familiarity with foreign languages that people in some other countries have.

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Originally posted by Quale

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Originally posted by Wooly Rupert


Those names don't stand out as much to an American reader, though -- at least not to one who hasn't paid much attention to his/her ancestry. I'd seen the name Bronwyn before, but I had no idea Tzigone or Fyodor were names in other languages. It's a sad fact that most Americans don't have the familiarity with foreign languages that people in some other countries have.

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Never heard of Fyodors Dostoevsky or Emilianenko ?

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Originally posted by ElaineCunningham

There's a Facebook group entitled "I'm an AMERICAN and shouldn't have to dial 1 for English." Apparently there are people who are so offended by the existance of other languages in this country that they feel compelled to gather in virtual groups for support. I had to restrain myself from saying, "Uh, kids, you DO know that the Spanish were here first? If anything, you should be dialing 2 for English. Or for that matter, 3 or 4."

This attitude is sadly familiar to me. My father was an immigrant but he was a firm believer in English Only. We weren't raised speaking Polish, or German, or Russian, or any of the other languages he grew up with or learned along the way. I regret that.

I'm happy to be an American, but there are some aspects of this culture that make me crazy. The attitude toward language, the tendency to view rain as a personal affront, and the fact that there's high fructose corn syrup in FREAKING EVERYTHING.

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Originally posted by ElaineCunningham
<snip> and the fact that there's high fructose corn syrup in FREAKING EVERYTHING.

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Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
I've been watching/noticing the ingredients list of what I eat because of the corn ingredients (and not just the syrup). It stems from watching Food, Inc. and the realization that it's in everything (like with maltodextrin). I don't know if I was the only one that put together from the movie that they switched animal feed from grass to corn because it's cheaper and 'bulks' the animals up quicker and the fact that Americans have an obesity problem and most of our diet consists of items with corn as a main ingredient.

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Originally posted by Sill Alias

Have someone from Russia asked for recommendation about translation? I have suspicions that most of translators there translate without any conscience for distorting the facts and names.

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Originally posted by ElaineCunningham

On the other end of the spectrum from Todd is an artist I met at a convention. He'd illustrated one of my books, and I commented that because I saw his art before the final revision deadline, I was able to tweak the character descriptions a bit to get a better fit. He gave me an odd look and coldly observed that he never reads the manuscript when illustrating a book, because he doesn't want the author's descriptions to interfer with his Vision. I got the impression that he was a little annoyed to learn that the book and the cover lined up, lest someone assume he had done that on purpose.

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Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

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Originally posted by ElaineCunningham

On the other end of the spectrum from Todd is an artist I met at a convention. He'd illustrated one of my books, and I commented that because I saw his art before the final revision deadline, I was able to tweak the character descriptions a bit to get a better fit. He gave me an odd look and coldly observed that he never reads the manuscript when illustrating a book, because he doesn't want the author's descriptions to interfer with his Vision. I got the impression that he was a little annoyed to learn that the book and the cover lined up, lest someone assume he had done that on purpose.

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I've gotten the impression that more than a few of the artists WotC has employed have been of that mindset -- or at the least, they couldn't be bothered to read the manuscript. My thinking is that WotC shouldn't be paying for art that doesn't match the description, but there's been a lot artwork that proves my opinion is not universal.

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Originally posted by ElaineCunningham
<snip>

It's not just translators who work at a remove from the authors. Cover art is seldom a collaborative process. In my experience, the editor requests "art notes" with character descriptions and a few scene suggestions. The editor and marketing people decide what look they want the book to have and pass along a version of the art suggestions to the artist. Todd Lockwood is the only artist who has ever contacted me directly, but he is, in many ways, exceptional. On the other end of the spectrum from Todd is an artist I met at a convention. He'd illustrated one of my books, and I commented that because I saw his art before the final revision deadline, I was able to tweak the character descriptions a bit to get a better fit. He gave me an odd look and coldly observed that he never reads the manuscript when illustrating a book, because he doesn't want the author's descriptions to interfer with his Vision. I got the impression that he was a little annoyed to learn that the book and the cover lined up, lest someone assume he had done that on purpose.

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Originally posted by ElaineCunningham
Todd Lockwood is, imo, simply the best illustrator working in fantasy today.

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Originally posted by ElaineCunningham

Just so there's no misunderstanding, Todd Lockwood is NOT the guy I met at the convention who didn't want his Vision sullied by knowledge of the book. To the contrary. Mr. Lockwood is a wonderful visual storyteller who goes to considerable effort to portray a sense of the tale and the characters. One of my favorites among his illustrations is a story by Tanith Lee about a gladiator who became obsessed with the belief that the veiled women sitting in the stands was Persephone, goddess of the underworld, and that if she pulled aside her veil and revealed her face, he would die. The central image is a veiled woman, a pomegranate resting on one outstretched palm and her other hand reaching for the veil over her face. Behind her is a stone frieze with three levels. On the top is a chariot race with the stands shown behind. In the second, there's a chariot accident in progress and the audience is reacting with shock and concern. In the third, the race resumes, but the horses and audience are skeletal. The "carving" is on stone so the images are fairly subdued and subtle, so it doesn't leap out at you like a huge visual spoiler, but I've seldom seen art that not only illustrated the story, but illuminated it.

The covers for Starlight and Shadows show a similar level of attention to detail and creativity with symbolism. There are carvings behind Liriel on each cover that incorporate people, images, and symbols from the story. The background changes from the stone of the Underdark to the weathered wood of a ship, to the walled cities of Rashemen. Each of the characters depicted with Liriel is cast in shadows. Lloth's influence is seem in the unusal spider imagery, but more subtly and creatively done that usual. For example, in the first cover, Liriel's hairstyle is an elaborate net of braids, an homage to Lloth's web. In the second cover, that web has started to unravel, though a few strands are left. By the third book, the web is gone. This same progresion can be seen in the pendants she wears. In the first book, she wears the spider-in-amber that Fyodor gave her; in book two she adds a crescent moon pendant (a reference to Eilistraee); by book three the spider-in-amber is gone and she only wears the moon pendant. The spider imagery goes from front and center to something that haunts the corners, depicting Liriel's character arc from a devoted, even affectionate child of Lloth to someone who has experiences the best and worst Lloth has to offer, and is strong enough to turn away. The amount of information and insight offered by these covers still astonishes me. Todd Lockwood is, imo, simply the best illustrator working in fantasy today.

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