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Jelennet
Learned Scribe
Russia
131 Posts |
 Posted - 03 May 2010 : 14:26:07
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I'm curious: how a child of a drow and a surface elf would look like? Will he be a drow? Or a surface elf? Or a kind of hybrid?
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_Jarlaxle_
Senior Scribe
Germany
584 Posts |
Posted - 03 May 2010 : 15:00:55
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| It would have a dark skin color. I don't know about its size because drow a usually a bit smaller than other elves... |
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3248 Posts |
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_Jarlaxle_
Senior Scribe
Germany
584 Posts |
Posted - 03 May 2010 : 15:28:01
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Really? In Evermeet - Island of the elves it says something diffrent:
quote:
And when dark elves mingle with the lighter races, the offspring invariably take after the dark parent.
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3248 Posts |
Posted - 03 May 2010 : 15:32:32
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Hmm... I forgot about that. I was going off basic genetics and the fact that the races don't mix (in the effect that if a Sun Elf and Moon Elf had a child, they'd either be Sun Elf or Moon Elf not 'half').
Perhaps this is a question for Ed or another learned master as to the nature of elven 'race' traits and whether certain subraces are genetically dominant.
(Dear me, I hope this thread doesn't go down some vile racial/rascism path) |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
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Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
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_Jarlaxle_
Senior Scribe
Germany
584 Posts |
Posted - 03 May 2010 : 15:54:53
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| Well the source of this statement was a bit racist itself because Ka'Narlist said it. So maybe it isn't true but just propaganda. |
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Lady Fellshot
Senior Scribe
USA
379 Posts |
Posted - 03 May 2010 : 16:38:39
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| It depends on why you are asking. If you want the game mechanic for how such things are considered, then Ashe is correct (one or the other, but not both). If you are going for something less crunch oriented, then I'd go for a 50/50 mix with darker skin tones than the surface elf parent and a light hair color, because genetics works that way. |
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Zireael
Master of Realmslore
Poland
1190 Posts |
Posted - 03 May 2010 : 19:34:33
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quote:
Originally posted by _Jarlaxle_
Really? In Evermeet - Island of the elves it says something diffrent:
quote:
And when dark elves mingle with the lighter races, the offspring invariably take after the dark parent.
Not only in Evermeet, but also in other books by Elaine Cunningham. Daughter of the Drow has this idea too. And I think it was mentioned in Races of Faerun too.
That would probably influence the mechanics. But you are free to do whatever regarding crunch. BTW some drow are said to have faerie elf blood in their veins (there was something about eye color?) |
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http://zireael07.wordpress.com/ |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4460 Posts |
Posted - 03 May 2010 : 23:09:10
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| If what I remember from the epilogue of The Orc King is correct, the one dark elf that's accepted by the Moon Wood elves has a few kids with a surface elf and they were either drow or elf, not a mixture of both (at least that's what I inferred for game-statistics). |
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Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
Posted - 03 May 2010 : 23:25:11
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quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
50% chance it would be full-blooded drow/50% chance surface elf.
That is not true in the case of a dominant gene. Then you have %75 of the offspring that carry it, and %25 that do not (if I remember my biology correctly). And in Elaine's books this was clearly the case. Also, seeing how RAS (IIRC) is highly dependent on the WotC editors to catch any conflicts he might create in his writing, I do not use him as the ruler to rule cannon by anymore. But as to prior lore taken from the sources given above (all of which I own, and have read), an extremely high percent of drow/elf offspring result in at least drow coloring. |
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Lady Fellshot
Senior Scribe
USA
379 Posts |
Posted - 04 May 2010 : 01:34:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
If what I remember from the epilogue of The Orc King is correct, the one dark elf that's accepted by the Moon Wood elves has a few kids with a surface elf and they were either drow or elf, not a mixture of both (at least that's what I inferred for game-statistics).
Well, I always figured the game stats were more for ability scores special attacks and what not... but not appearance. Also, "taking after the dark elf parent" makes a lot more sense if one is talking about appearance, but not game stats. The phrase would also indicate that genetically, the darker skin tone is more dominant.
And Hawkins is correct as well. If we infer that the genes for darker skin tones are dominant in elves, then to hyper-simplify the table of potential genotypes (to put it very, very mildly) you have a 25% chance of getting the recessive pale skin color. However the way the table works is that there's a 25% chance of a full dominant expression, a 50% chance of a heterozygous gene expression (which will outwardly look like a dominant expression), and a 25% chance of a fully recessive gene expression.
Incidentally, there wasn't anything about what To'sun and Sinnafain's children looked like... just that they exist.
EDIT: I almost forgot, in the real world, children with parents that have different skin colors tend to have skin tones in between those of the parents. Like I said earlier, the genetics involved are really complicated.  |
Edited by - Lady Fellshot on 04 May 2010 01:41:38 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36894 Posts |
Posted - 04 May 2010 : 03:09:24
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There is at least one half-drow in the Realms, however, who doesn't look a thing like drow -- she looks like a regular half-elf. A very lovely half-elf, but just a "regular" half-elf, nonetheless. I speak of course of the lovely Kyriani, Lord of Waterdeep, Moonstar, owner of Selūne's Smile, and close friend of Selūne. She was also a Blackstaff, sometime before the 4E Realms. 
Yes, I still remain her second biggest fan. I can't claim to be her biggest fan, though, since Steven put her in a novel. |
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Brace Cormaeril
Learned Scribe
294 Posts |
Posted - 04 May 2010 : 04:03:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
Hmm... I forgot about that. I was going off basic genetics and the fact that the races don't mix (in the effect that if a Sun Elf and Moon Elf had a child, they'd either be Sun Elf or Moon Elf not 'half').
Perhaps this is a question for Ed or another learned master as to the nature of elven 'race' traits and whether certain subraces are genetically dominant.
(Dear me, I hope this thread doesn't go down some vile racial/rascism path)
You must be using a version of "basic genetics" which is not supported by scientific literature. Please note, there is no scientific evidence to support the existence of "races". Your fantasy mileage may vary, of course. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
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Sill Alias
Senior Scribe
Kazakhstan
588 Posts |
Posted - 04 May 2010 : 04:59:03
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| Yes, but they are all of noble house blood, so chance of their alignment being good is 25%, or so I think. |
You can hear many tales from many mouths. The most difficult is to know which of them are not lies. - Sill Alias
"May your harp be unstrung, your dreams die and all your songs be unsung." - curse of the harper, The Code of the Harpers 2 ed.
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 04 May 2010 : 05:23:53
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quote:
Originally posted by Sill Alias
Yes, but they are all of noble house blood, so chance of their alignment being good is 25%, or so I think.
Actually, the Crinti only formed about 10% of Dambrath's population, as I recall. There were half-drow who made up the middle-class as well. |
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Edited by - The Sage on 04 May 2010 05:24:41 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36894 Posts |
Posted - 04 May 2010 : 05:24:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Brace Cormaeril
quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
Hmm... I forgot about that. I was going off basic genetics and the fact that the races don't mix (in the effect that if a Sun Elf and Moon Elf had a child, they'd either be Sun Elf or Moon Elf not 'half').
Perhaps this is a question for Ed or another learned master as to the nature of elven 'race' traits and whether certain subraces are genetically dominant.
(Dear me, I hope this thread doesn't go down some vile racial/rascism path)
You must be using a version of "basic genetics" which is not supported by scientific literature. Please note, there is no scientific evidence to support the existence of "races". Your fantasy mileage may vary, of course.
Scientific evidence doesn't support magic, either, and it does support functioning electronics. Since we've got plenty of the former and none of the latter in the Realms, I think it's safe to say we can stick to game rules, for this discussion. |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Brace Cormaeril
Learned Scribe
294 Posts |
Posted - 04 May 2010 : 06:11:58
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Scientific evidence doesn't support magic, either, and it does support functioning electronics. Since we've got plenty of the former and none of the latter in the Realms, I think it's safe to say we can stick to game rules, for this discussion.
Then I should hope that, in the future, when a scribe is presented with a direct quote from a canon source, they will not attempt to justify a previous argument with a pseudo-scientific response which was antiquated in the real world 50 years ago.
Please excuse the thread drift, but when erroneous, blanket statements are made, without even a hedge word, I feel it is important to correct the offender.
Scientific evidence doesn't support falsehood, but it does support scholarly accountability. Since we have plenty of the latter, and little of the former here at Candlekeep, I agree that we should stick to game rules for this discussion. |
The Silver Fire's Blade: A Novella in Nine Parts, Available Soon, in the Adventuring Forum!
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Sill Alias
Senior Scribe
Kazakhstan
588 Posts |
Posted - 04 May 2010 : 06:14:20
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Sill Alias
Yes, but they are all of noble house blood, so chance of their alignment being good is 25%, or so I think.
Actually, the Crinti only formed about 10% of Dambrath's population, as I recall. There were half-drow who made up the middle-class as well.
If I remember correctly, Races of the Faerun told that humans, being a majority of population, are oppressed by the ruling drow houses in Dambrath. |
You can hear many tales from many mouths. The most difficult is to know which of them are not lies. - Sill Alias
"May your harp be unstrung, your dreams die and all your songs be unsung." - curse of the harper, The Code of the Harpers 2 ed.
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Lady Fellshot
Senior Scribe
USA
379 Posts |
Posted - 04 May 2010 : 06:21:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Brace Cormaeril
quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
Hmm... I forgot about that. I was going off basic genetics and the fact that the races don't mix (in the effect that if a Sun Elf and Moon Elf had a child, they'd either be Sun Elf or Moon Elf not 'half').
Perhaps this is a question for Ed or another learned master as to the nature of elven 'race' traits and whether certain subraces are genetically dominant.
(Dear me, I hope this thread doesn't go down some vile racial/rascism path)
You must be using a version of "basic genetics" which is not supported by scientific literature. Please note, there is no scientific evidence to support the existence of "races". Your fantasy mileage may vary, of course.
Scientific evidence doesn't support magic, either, and it does support functioning electronics. Since we've got plenty of the former and none of the latter in the Realms, I think it's safe to say we can stick to game rules, for this discussion.
*realizes that she's about to say something really snarky*
*the good manners gags the snarky side*
Well, to be fair, the original poster did not specify if this was in relation to game rules or the novels (which may ignore certain rules if it becomes narratively necessary to do so). I think hybrids are more fun from a fluff standpoint.
It did just occur to me that the "one or the other but not both" rule might be fluff explained by which parent did the child rearing, but that would contradict the "inherently evil" non-....
*re-gags the snarky side* |
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Sill Alias
Senior Scribe
Kazakhstan
588 Posts |
Posted - 04 May 2010 : 06:25:26
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I think that the theory of no-crossing is supported by fact of millennium isolation of drow. Now, all the bridges are broken. |
You can hear many tales from many mouths. The most difficult is to know which of them are not lies. - Sill Alias
"May your harp be unstrung, your dreams die and all your songs be unsung." - curse of the harper, The Code of the Harpers 2 ed.
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 04 May 2010 : 07:05:06
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quote:
Originally posted by Sill Alias
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Sill Alias
Yes, but they are all of noble house blood, so chance of their alignment being good is 25%, or so I think.
Actually, the Crinti only formed about 10% of Dambrath's population, as I recall. There were half-drow who made up the middle-class as well.
If I remember correctly, Races of the Faerun told that humans, being a majority of population, are oppressed by the ruling drow houses in Dambrath.
Yes. But previous sources also noted half-drow among the middle-class. And I don't recall that being ignored in any 3e Realmslore pertaining to Dambrath. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3248 Posts |
Posted - 04 May 2010 : 13:46:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Brace Cormaeril
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Scientific evidence doesn't support magic, either, and it does support functioning electronics. Since we've got plenty of the former and none of the latter in the Realms, I think it's safe to say we can stick to game rules, for this discussion.
Then I should hope that, in the future, when a scribe is presented with a direct quote from a canon source, they will not attempt to justify a previous argument with a pseudo-scientific response which was antiquated in the real world 50 years ago.
Please excuse the thread drift, but when erroneous, blanket statements are made, without even a hedge word, I feel it is important to correct the offender.
Scientific evidence doesn't support falsehood, but it does support scholarly accountability. Since we have plenty of the latter, and little of the former here at Candlekeep, I agree that we should stick to game rules for this discussion.
Sorry 'bout that. Forgot to carry the two.
(penguins pop back into existence) |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
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How a child of a drow and an elf would look like?
