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jordanz
Senior Scribe
556 Posts |
 Posted - 26 Apr 2010 : 02:52:19
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I wonder if they were rivals of some sort.
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sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
Posted - 26 Apr 2010 : 03:42:00
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| I would imagine Larloch might have known Ioluam back way back when..... so yes I imagine he knew Karsus, or atleast of him. to know for certain, You'd have to ask Ed Greenwood. |
why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power
My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234 |
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Knight of the Gate
Senior Scribe
USA
624 Posts |
Posted - 26 Apr 2010 : 05:40:43
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| Being as there weren't that many flying enclaves (I int know how many off the top of my head but I think a few dozen) and both men were rulers of said enclaves, they surely knew of each other and its certainly within the realm of possibility that they had personal knowledge of each other. I doubt that they were rivals, though- I would think that Larloch would have a rival under close surveillance and thus would have known of karsus' plan and stopped him. Just my thinking. |
How can life be so bountiful, providing such sublime rewards for mediocrity? -Umberto Ecco |
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_Jarlaxle_
Senior Scribe
Germany
584 Posts |
Posted - 26 Apr 2010 : 06:35:29
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quote:
Originally posted by jordanz
I wonder if they were rivals of some sort.
All of them where rivals of some sort |
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 26 Apr 2010 : 12:52:07
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I think their views on how to become immortals was quite different (Lichdom vs Godhood). I wouldn't be surprised if Larloch thought of Karsus as a fool for his ways (even before the Fall). Heck, he probably knew such a thing would happen and probably survived the Fall based on this knowledge/suspicion. But definately, both being ultra powewrful rulers of their respective enclaves, they would definately know of each other if not have met on numerous occasions for a cup of tea.
Oh and Larloch will be made the fool when Karsus' plan comes to full fruition when he regains his divinity and rules over new Netheril  |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
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Tyranthraxus
Senior Scribe
Netherlands
423 Posts |
Posted - 26 Apr 2010 : 13:26:54
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quote:
Originally posted by Alisttair
Oh and Larloch will be made the fool when Karsus' plan comes to full fruition when he regains his divinity and rules over new Netheril
I don't think the Shadovar/Netheril like Karsus after what he's done to Netheril back in the day. I thought about it raising Karsus as an exarch of Shar, but he's more interesting when he's dead |
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 26 Apr 2010 : 16:34:06
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No he is more interesting when he is ALIVE and RULING as is his RIGHT!!!
Long live KARSUS!!!!!!!!!! |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
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jordanz
Senior Scribe
556 Posts |
Posted - 26 Apr 2010 : 17:06:41
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quote:
Originally posted by Alisttair
No he is more interesting when he is ALIVE and RULING as is his RIGHT!!!
Long live KARSUS!!!!!!!!!!
If it came down to a confrontation between Karsus and Larloch , does would a non divine Karsus stand a chance? |
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 26 Apr 2010 : 17:45:05
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quote:
Originally posted by jordanz
quote:
Originally posted by Alisttair
No he is more interesting when he is ALIVE and RULING as is his RIGHT!!!
Long live KARSUS!!!!!!!!!!
If it came down to a confrontation between Karsus and Larloch , does would a non divine Karsus stand a chance?
It would be an battle of epic proportions and I can see it going back and forth with no clear cut winner in the end. |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
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Cleric Generic
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
565 Posts |
Posted - 26 Apr 2010 : 20:37:14
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quote:
Originally posted by jordanz
quote:
Originally posted by Alisttair
No he is more interesting when he is ALIVE and RULING as is his RIGHT!!!
Long live KARSUS!!!!!!!!!!
If it came down to a confrontation between Karsus and Larloch , does would a non divine Karsus stand a chance?
Bwahaha! Awesome question...
If it was Larlock at his curret/last recorded power level vs Karsus at his (non-divine) peak then you'd probably have a hole in the map that puts the 4e Underchasm to shame.
As for the winner?
ALL HAIL LORD KARSUS!!! |
Cedric! The Cleric Generic and Master of Disguise!
ALL HAIL LORD KARSUS!!!
Vast Realmslore Archive: Get in here and download everything! http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/archfr/rl
2e Realms book PDFs; grab em! - http://poleandrope.blogspot.com/2010/07/working-around-purge.html |
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Nicolai Withander
Master of Realmslore
Denmark
1093 Posts |
Posted - 26 Apr 2010 : 23:02:55
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If we take both Larloch and Karsus at their peak, than karsus was a lvl 41 or was it 42 arcanist. With the power and knowledge to cast lvl 10-11 and even 12 as we all know. But what good is all that going to do, when Larloch by rituals of great power has become 100% immune to magic???
Karsus could hurl what ever lvl spell at Larloch, and he would at the end be totally unharmed!!!
So there can be no doubt... Larloch would win agains any spellcaster the realms have ever seen! |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36826 Posts |
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Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
Posted - 27 Apr 2010 : 01:01:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Alisttair
<chop>
Oh and Larloch will be made the fool when Karsus' plan comes to full fruition when he regains his divinity and rules over new Netheril
Er... who's to say that restoring Karsus to divinity as a single deity of magic isn't Larloch's plan? 
Edit: Yes, I realize the improbability of such a scenario... I just thought I'd play lich's advocate for a moment... it probably has something to do with my profile pic...  |
Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
Edited by - Jakk on 27 Apr 2010 01:03:45 |
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Nicolai Withander
Master of Realmslore
Denmark
1093 Posts |
Posted - 27 Apr 2010 : 12:10:51
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Well Larloch could have used his long life, to plan something so powerful that he would need all of his self given powers.
For instance, Larloch recieved 2 sheets from the netherscrolls by mystra... An evil lich would have to do something big og promice to do something big to get that kind of gift.
My thought is that he was put in charge om protecting Mystra/ the Weave. Since he's evil, he could be closer to Mystras enemies. |
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 27 Apr 2010 : 14:25:42
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| Perhaps Larloch has taken the formula for Karsus' Avatar and is still working on the bugs (taking millenia to figure out) and the Spellplague is either slowing it down further...or accelerating it... |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
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Quale
Master of Realmslore
1757 Posts |
Posted - 27 Apr 2010 : 16:18:51
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Larloch was beneath Karsus' notice back then.
Larloch secretly loved Karsus and been depressed ever since. |
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 27 Apr 2010 : 18:38:37
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| Laroloch didn't choose to become a Lich. His very existence is but an experiment of Karsus'. In fact, Karsus intends to utilize Larloch's Un-lfe force as a means to bring himself back (he is merely a tool like Xvim was a tool of Bane's) |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36826 Posts |
Posted - 28 Apr 2010 : 01:11:42
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quote:
Originally posted by Alisttair
Laroloch didn't choose to become a Lich. His very existence is but an experiment of Karsus'. In fact, Karsus intends to utilize Larloch's Un-lfe force as a means to bring himself back (he is merely a tool like Xvim was a tool of Bane's)
I think there's more evidence that the current "Bane" is really Xvim. And there's pretty much no evidence of your theory.  |
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Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
Posted - 28 Apr 2010 : 03:47:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Alisttair
Laroloch didn't choose to become a Lich. His very existence is but an experiment of Karsus'. In fact, Karsus intends to utilize Larloch's Un-lfe force as a means to bring himself back (he is merely a tool like Xvim was a tool of Bane's)
I'm more interested by the idea that Larloch intends to use what remains of Karsus' divine energies for some other purpose as yet unknown to us. Muahahaha, and so forth. |
Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
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jordanz
Senior Scribe
556 Posts |
Posted - 28 Apr 2010 : 07:08:06
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quote:
Originally posted by Nicolai Withander
[ But what good is all that going to do, when Larloch by rituals of great power has become 100% immune to magic???
I always assumed the cap for that immunity was at 9th level spells.Any immunity that would include epic spell levels in my mind crosses over to DIVINE level power-which is just out of Larloch's reach IMO. |
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_Jarlaxle_
Senior Scribe
Germany
584 Posts |
Posted - 28 Apr 2010 : 09:30:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Nicolai Withander
But what good is all that going to do, when Larloch by rituals of great power has become 100% immune to magic???
Where do you get that from?
Lords of darkness says the following
quote:
Immunities (Ex): Larloch is immune to cold, electricity,
polymorph, and mind-affecting attacks. Larloch is also
immune to one arcane spell per spell level, but which spells
those are is unknown.
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Cleric Generic
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
565 Posts |
Posted - 28 Apr 2010 : 09:58:12
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Once you've gotten to the obscene power levels of Larloch 'because he wants to' is pretty much all the explanation for an ability you need. Some uber-spell whereby he could summon a number of small anti-magic zones that move and change shape/size at his whim is not out of the question.
Also, being a lich, I'd imagine he's also immune to poison, disease and negative energy (the harmful effects, at least). |
Cedric! The Cleric Generic and Master of Disguise!
ALL HAIL LORD KARSUS!!!
Vast Realmslore Archive: Get in here and download everything! http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/archfr/rl
2e Realms book PDFs; grab em! - http://poleandrope.blogspot.com/2010/07/working-around-purge.html |
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_Jarlaxle_
Senior Scribe
Germany
584 Posts |
Posted - 28 Apr 2010 : 10:15:36
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| Of course you can give your Larloch in your own game/world everything you can imagine, like you can do with every other character. But I'm curious if there is any canon source saying that he is imune to all magic, because I never found one. |
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Cleric Generic
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
565 Posts |
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 28 Apr 2010 : 15:11:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Alisttair
Laroloch didn't choose to become a Lich. His very existence is but an experiment of Karsus'. In fact, Karsus intends to utilize Larloch's Un-lfe force as a means to bring himself back (he is merely a tool like Xvim was a tool of Bane's)
I think there's more evidence that the current "Bane" is really Xvim. And there's pretty much no evidence of your theory.
Agreed that Xvim is parading around as Bane, but the fool let the evidence slip, thus proving that Karsus is far superior in that no clues are evident other than his worshippers such as I and Cleric Generic. |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
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jordanz
Senior Scribe
556 Posts |
Posted - 28 Apr 2010 : 16:36:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Nicolai Withander
Since he's evil, he could be closer to Mystras enemies.
I always wondered about this. What makes Larloch patently evil? If he wanted he could have trampled over half of Faruen. I always saw him
as an insanely selfish Neutral. |
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Cleric Generic
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
565 Posts |
Posted - 28 Apr 2010 : 18:41:44
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Larloch could trample most of the continent, true, but there wouldn't be much point and it would be like firing the first shot in a nuclear war; everybody empties their arsenals and everybody dies / crawls back to the caves.
'Evil' is pretty vague anyway, it could be anything from being a bit of an a**hole to being hell-bent on total genocide. In this case, I'd imagine 'evil' means he couldn't care less how many worthless mortals get vaporised in the course of his research and other endeavours, but he's otherwise not actively hostile.
in other news...
LO! THE NEW TEMPLE OF LORD KARSUS DOES RISE! ALL SHALL TREMBLE BEFORE HIM! ALL SHALL BOW BEFORE THE RISEN LORD OF THE ARCANE!!!
(note: just being silly, fyi, all in good humour :p ) |
Cedric! The Cleric Generic and Master of Disguise!
ALL HAIL LORD KARSUS!!!
Vast Realmslore Archive: Get in here and download everything! http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/archfr/rl
2e Realms book PDFs; grab em! - http://poleandrope.blogspot.com/2010/07/working-around-purge.html |
Edited by - Cleric Generic on 28 Apr 2010 18:42:53 |
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 28 Apr 2010 : 18:44:32
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Larloch's plans are reach further beyond the Material Plane whereas Karsus thought mostly about Faerun in general and Netheril in particular...
which is all that truly matters FOR KARSUS WILL ONCE AGAIN RULE NETHERIL AND IN TIME ALL OF TORIL!! |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
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Cleric Generic
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
565 Posts |
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Nicolai Withander
Master of Realmslore
Denmark
1093 Posts |
Posted - 28 Apr 2010 : 20:26:24
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Well the total magic immunity Ive gotten from FR wiki. But here is how it goes: One of Larloch's given-to-himself powers (which - in a long and secret personally-developed process - cost him 10 years of life and some vitality, irrelevant of course given his lichdom) is automatic spell reflection (of all magic cast upon him). He can by act of will override this ability, for example when he wants to work a spell on himself; otherwise, it always operates.
Thus far, neither psionics nor mind-influencing magics have ever been effective against him or any of his underlings.
If it is all magic cast on upon him then thats prette much the same, and that to me is the same as 100% magic immunity. Ad least thats how I would play him.
True that he does not act "evil" like a demon would act, but some of the reasons for that could be due to his relationship with Mystra. For some reason he got 2 sheets of the Nether Scrolls from her, so im pretty sure that they have some kind of agreement of some sort. Adleast enough to let him keep doing what ever he is doing. What ever that might be... Well good luck getting that out of THO or Ed!!!!
One last thing. He got atleast 3 demi lichs under his command, and if you are powerful enough to command, not only about 60 epic lvl lichs, 20 or so vampire lords a host of lesser undead and 3 demi lichs, then you have power so extreme that it would rival any god. As I see it 100% magic immunity would fit nicely into his "given to himself Powers". It would be very naive to think that so many, so powerful, undead would follow his command out of sheere respect. To me it would be more plausible if there were his underlings because they knew he was more powerful than all of them combined!!!!
Well thats just my theory! Im sure that Ed, THO, Woolly or Mr. Sage, could give a more "true" perspective on this!!!
Wink wink |
Edited by - Nicolai Withander on 28 Apr 2010 20:33:42 |
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Cleric Generic
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
565 Posts |
Posted - 28 Apr 2010 : 20:44:08
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Yup, infallible spell reflection is basically infallible spell immunity that gives the caster a good slap for their trouble.
As for a deal with Mystra, she seems to like anything with uber magical abilities. I vaguely recall Daurgothoth, "The Creeping Doom" was favoured by Mystra (ultimate black dracolich archmage). Her remit is magic regardless of alignment, after all.
EDIT: Yeah, straight up immunity would certainly by in keeping, at least up to and including low end epic spells (or lvl 10). If he and a few of his most battle hardened lich buddies knew what was going on, they could easily take down a demigod (3e stats assumed here). Much more than that and the divine rank wotsits will start being a serious problem. |
Cedric! The Cleric Generic and Master of Disguise!
ALL HAIL LORD KARSUS!!!
Vast Realmslore Archive: Get in here and download everything! http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/archfr/rl
2e Realms book PDFs; grab em! - http://poleandrope.blogspot.com/2010/07/working-around-purge.html |
Edited by - Cleric Generic on 28 Apr 2010 20:55:49 |
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Did Larloch know Karsus?
