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Sill Alias
Senior Scribe
Kazakhstan
588 Posts |
 Posted - 29 Mar 2010 : 10:34:48
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Hello, fellow travellers.
All that talk about the gods and afterlife struck me with athought - there is no freedom of religion, at least without consequences. I don't want to worship anyone, but I am afraid of being imprisoned in the Wall of Faithless. Is there no way to avoid that fate? Some preucation? Anything?
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You can hear many tales from many mouths. The most difficult is to know which of them are not lies. - Sill Alias
"May your harp be unstrung, your dreams die and all your songs be unsung." - curse of the harper, The Code of the Harpers 2 ed.
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Cleric Generic
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
565 Posts |
Posted - 29 Mar 2010 : 11:33:31
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Oh come on, all the interesting people go to the wall of the faithless! You really want to play poker with a bunch of Oghman priests forever?
You could strike a deal with a demon and become a dretch! Think of all the cool adventurers you could meet, and you could fart in public all you want!
*ahem*
Yes, well... you might be able to apply for an internship in the city of the damned or make some last minute bargain with a planar being in authority, but I don't know of any canonical precedent for such things. |
Cedric! The Cleric Generic and Master of Disguise!
ALL HAIL LORD KARSUS!!!
Vast Realmslore Archive: Get in here and download everything! http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/archfr/rl
2e Realms book PDFs; grab em! - http://poleandrope.blogspot.com/2010/07/working-around-purge.html |
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Kilvan
Senior Scribe
Canada
896 Posts |
Posted - 29 Mar 2010 : 12:40:11
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| The easiest way I can see is: never die. I guess that more than a few liches became undeads to avoid the wall. |
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 29 Mar 2010 : 15:29:44
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Ain't no freedom without consequences in the Realms.
Luckily, the situation isn't as cruelly crypto-monotheist as some sources would make you think:quote:
Only those who repudiate the gods (or who as a result of their actions are renounced by their gods), despoil altars and frustrate clerical aims (of any deity, not just "foe" deities), or never pray or engage in any form of deliberate worship will qualify as either faithless or false.
The latter group of people who don't violently repudiate the gods but never once pray to them at any time in their life is a vanishingly tiny one.
Moreover, mortals don't know about the wall of the Faithless or any other part of the afterlife. There are many beliefs, rumours and doctrines, but the reality behind them is intended to be a matter for the DM, if even that. |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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Laerrigan
Learned Scribe
USA
195 Posts |
Posted - 30 Mar 2010 : 06:21:17
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Who says true freedom doesn't come with consequences? You're free to choose how you live and to choose your final disposition, lol. And come on, now, when you can pick a deity whose entire doctrine is basically "help stuff grow now and then and feed people sometimes," jeez---what in the world can you possibly complain about? 
Personally, I'd recommend undeath. In a choice between A) existing as an amnesiac on an outer plane until finally dissolving and being absorbed into its building material and ceasing to exist as myself (or, on an evil plane, being turned into currency or food or cannon fodder), B) existing as an amnesiac mechanically doing the will of some biased being with power who ultimately has no more claim to authority than any other, C) being part of the Wall, or D) continuing my existence in an awesomely augmented body/mind, free to roam the planes, pursuing my goals without having to worry about the march of time until at some indefinite future point I abruptly cease to exist (destroyed)....Hmm, lemme think about this, here.... |
"Your 'reality,' sir, is lies and balderdash, and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever." (Baron Munchausen)
"If I find in myself a desire which no experience in this world can satisfy, the most probable explanation is that I was not made for this world." (C.S. Lewis, "Surprised by Joy") |
Edited by - Laerrigan on 30 Mar 2010 06:41:13 |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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Laerrigan
Learned Scribe
USA
195 Posts |
Posted - 30 Mar 2010 : 06:50:07
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Hey, it works.  If I can turn enough willing followers, can I be a god too??
Proxy....I coulda sworn that was another one that lost its identity....That's what I get for swearing in public. Besides, you're still a slave to an entirely biased and arbitrary being. Wouldn't you rather be a slave to an adorable patchy face like this?
<---- |
"Your 'reality,' sir, is lies and balderdash, and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever." (Baron Munchausen)
"If I find in myself a desire which no experience in this world can satisfy, the most probable explanation is that I was not made for this world." (C.S. Lewis, "Surprised by Joy") |
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Kilvan
Senior Scribe
Canada
896 Posts |
Posted - 30 Mar 2010 : 11:23:01
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| Though it has been stated many times that immortality is a curse in itself. After centuries of seing your loved ones die, and in the case of undeads, being feared and hated by everyone, everyone turns mad in its own way. That includes Mystra's chosen as well. |
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Laerrigan
Learned Scribe
USA
195 Posts |
Posted - 30 Mar 2010 : 17:48:03
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Depends on your support group  . And even madness can come and then go with time, like anything else in life/existence. Heck, it can make for some fun gaming. Including personal and interpersonal restorations afterward, as well as having to deal with the consequences of what happened during that period. Yummy yummy RP and story-shifts  .
Of course my PC gets nothing whatsoever out of extolling the virtues of undeath and slipping in the little bit of information that he can grant it. Nothing at all.
....It does raise a point of curiosity for me, though. Is there canon about baelnorn going mad (as in, more than simply being their obsessive selves)? I remember one single baelnorn who became evil, but that's all I can recall on the subject offhand.... |
"Your 'reality,' sir, is lies and balderdash, and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever." (Baron Munchausen)
"If I find in myself a desire which no experience in this world can satisfy, the most probable explanation is that I was not made for this world." (C.S. Lewis, "Surprised by Joy") |
Edited by - Laerrigan on 30 Mar 2010 17:52:21 |
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Kilvan
Senior Scribe
Canada
896 Posts |
Posted - 30 Mar 2010 : 18:40:56
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The one still in Myth Drannor in the Archwizard trilogy didn't seem very sane to me. He still followed his duty though (which was to protect the artefacts of the magic university IIRC), even six centuries after the fall of his city. He was not evil though. He was also a kickass bladesinger, undead + bladesinger = cool  . |
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Sill Alias
Senior Scribe
Kazakhstan
588 Posts |
Posted - 31 Mar 2010 : 05:55:05
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Thanks for cheering up.
So, I can be left in the wall, strike a deal with outsider, become undead, pray to the gods or become one. Somehow makes me think about forming a band of travelers to recreate crusade of the Dead three.
It makes me think a lot. There is many possibilities.
By the way, does petitioner system work on faithless? At least on evil people?
About madness of the immortal. Don't you think that they are not mad, but their thinking is more... different. After living for so many aeons, they may experience feelings, that no mortal could ever understand (like feeling being one with the universe, unified mind). |
You can hear many tales from many mouths. The most difficult is to know which of them are not lies. - Sill Alias
"May your harp be unstrung, your dreams die and all your songs be unsung." - curse of the harper, The Code of the Harpers 2 ed.
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Edited by - Sill Alias on 31 Mar 2010 06:01:39 |
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Laerrigan
Learned Scribe
USA
195 Posts |
Posted - 31 Mar 2010 : 07:51:06
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quote:
Originally posted by Sill Alias
About madness of the immortal. Don't you think that they are not mad, but their thinking is more... different. After living for so many aeons, they may experience feelings, that no mortal could ever understand (like feeling being one with the universe, unified mind).
Interesting thought. I would say it would depend a lot on individual personality, as well as how they conduct their (un)life. I'm sure there are those who would go mad, for shorter or longer periods of time. Boredom, jadedness at futility, or simply losing friends and loved ones over and over down the centuries could do it.
I really loved The Belgariad (by David Eddings), and his seven-thousand-year-old sorcerer was an absolute masterpiece of "immortal" charactering, IMO; another character had the insight that that sorcerer had indeed developed the inhuman capacity for calculation and rage that most people would think, but that he'd also developed an inhuman capacity for love far beyond mortal comprehension of what that word encompasses. In fact, the very drive with which he pursued his prophesied role in the world was a vast, eons-long, sacrificial expression of that love---it was just easy for mortals to misunderstand, and how could he possibly explain it? And he deeply enjoyed the little things in everyday life. Like petty theft, and getting drunk and pinching barmaids . He was quite the rogue, a vagabond and occasionally a public nuisance. But he was also a philosopher and scholar, and a humble student every day of his long life.
Personally, I play my "immortal" the same as when he was alive, but with much-extended developments of certain aspects of him over time (as well as a newer set of problems as a vampire, lol). No two sunsets are ever alike, the Weave is an eternal source of fascinating mystery and delight, and there's wonder to be found in a dewdrop on a leaf. When bad times come, he knows they won't last forever (the same with good times). He's all about working hard and sharp---with inhuman focus and frightening drive---and then reveling in shamelessly indulgent laziness and play, not really caring what people think of him for it. He's been very wealthy and powerful, and has decided that the only good thing about such a state is having resources when they're needed for something worthwhile (though something in him does have a dangerous liking for being in control, and he keeps a careful rein on that). He has a very few, very close friends that are like family, and they're also vampires, sharing the same basic struggles and understanding each other, which is a much-needed boon because of the rift of experience between him and mortals.
He's....earthy? While being a major bookworm-philosopher trivia nerd, lol. It's my aim to keep him "real," so to speak---unless he mentions it, no one would know how long he's been around, or what he's capable of. I figure he's had a lot of time to weigh himself and the world, and to determine what he finds to be worth getting worked up over or not (not to say he doesn't still fall into absurd, even counterproductive obsessions at times; that's just him, lol). And to determine what little things are just plain fun and sanity-saving, even if they annoy others. If you take yourself or your existence too seriously for too long, you go mad . |
"Your 'reality,' sir, is lies and balderdash, and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever." (Baron Munchausen)
"If I find in myself a desire which no experience in this world can satisfy, the most probable explanation is that I was not made for this world." (C.S. Lewis, "Surprised by Joy") |
Edited by - Laerrigan on 31 Mar 2010 07:54:05 |
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Sill Alias
Senior Scribe
Kazakhstan
588 Posts |
Posted - 02 Apr 2010 : 13:28:23
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Great life you 'live', my dead friend. Anyway, did you used charisma modifier or it was just spell to charm me? I just suddenly feel like choosing the vampire state.
Talking about becoming vampires. What makes once goodly folk in life vile bloody monster after transformation? Is it negative energy, experience of new life, loss of memories, obsession or something else?
Also, do you know any way to go in the broad daylight? |
You can hear many tales from many mouths. The most difficult is to know which of them are not lies. - Sill Alias
"May your harp be unstrung, your dreams die and all your songs be unsung." - curse of the harper, The Code of the Harpers 2 ed.
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Kilvan
Senior Scribe
Canada
896 Posts |
Posted - 02 Apr 2010 : 13:48:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Sill Alias
Talking about becoming vampires. What makes once goodly folk in life vile bloody monster after transformation? Is it negative energy, experience of new life, loss of memories, obsession or something else?
Also, do you know any way to go in the broad daylight?
I think it is the negative energy that makes undeads evil, though some have been known to resist it (a few neutral vampire here and there). I don't know if it would apply to Baelorn, them having Corellon's blessing or whatever.
As for the broad daylight thing, I think it has been discussed in these halls that such an item would be a major artefact, and likely sought by hundreds of vampire patriarch. As far as I know, there is no cannon way to allow a vampire to resist daylight exposure.
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Laerrigan
Learned Scribe
USA
195 Posts |
Posted - 02 Apr 2010 : 18:52:03
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I'm not tellin' how I charm---knowledge is power, you know .
All of that does depend on how far from canon you want to go. My friend and I have added in a bit of influence from non-D&D sources to tailor things more to our liking, though I do try to keep more to certain fundamentals for RPing at the inn, here, so there's enough common ground.
As for undead being always evil, after a lot of thought on it over a couple of years of playing one and exploring possibilities through perspective, the best I can figure is it is the negative energy, in D&D. Positive energy inherently seeks to heal, negative energy inherently seeks to destroy. Living beings have both influences at work in them, but usually the positive wins out, if only by a little bit. Undead have only negative energy powering them, so there is nothing in them but their own willpower to fight those destructive urges.
But it is possible to fight those urges with willpower (even by canon examples). And looking at it realistically, if one were to have friends/family who were in the same state and also wished to retain some humanity, it could become a mutual support group and would likely be extremely close-knit, brought together by shared experience and also by alienation from the rest of society. IMO, simply accepting one's newer nature and integrating it into one's psyche---rather than completely eschewing it in horror and imagining that one can somehow never give in to it if one is "good" enough (which leads to all kinds of self-hatred and recrimination)---gives a much better chance of retaining willpower and sanity. (Yes, some of this is influenced by White Wolf's games, and I do lightly favor Gangrel, for those who know what I'm talking about .) Laerrigan has done a horrible thing or two in his time, and he knows he will again eventually, but his conscious will/intent turns away from such behavior and he picks up and moves on and does the best he can for those he cares about.
He has postulated, in IC discussions on the matter here, that the combination of negative energy (which can be a pretty big blow by itself, bringing destructive urges even beyond that of feeding/killing), and realizing normal people around you now smell like cheeseburgers and make you hungry, and horror over what you've done if you lose control, is enough to break an awful lot of vampires. Add to that the fact that most vampires start out under the absolute control of an evil master vampire and that even if that one is destroyed, they might come under the control of an evil necromancer, and you can see why 99.9% of vampires are evil (that's what "always [alignment]" means, according to canon rules; there is still the rare possibility to find one that isn't that alignment). Laerrigan is LN, and his closest relationships are with other lawful vampires who would all die for each other's need or even pleasure but would never want to lose one another. They can be themselves, completely and without bounds, with each other. He realizes how unusual his situation is, and absolutely will not judge any sentient undead who ends up struggling or even horribly evil (though he will act to stop such a one if they attack his interests). He and his wife and a close friend of theirs even helped a struggling new vampire who was CN and was slowly going nuts (and evil) in his lone struggle and horror---they brought him into the fold.
As for sunlight....I don't know, lol. IMC, we use some variation in bloodlines (supposedly they're rare), and the one my PC comes from is immune to sunlight. It also has no shapechanging ability (including mist form) and tends strongly toward law, as well as a couple other quirks. We also have age categories a la Ravenloft, so vampires lose weaknesses and gain in strength as they age, and one area of strengthening is a gradual reduction in sun-sensitivity until the oldest ones are immune to it. I think that playing a sun-sensitive vampire could be interesting, so long as canon were tweaked enough that two friggin rounds don't DESTROY you outright....but then, I don't use save-or-die effects for normal characters in my DMing, either.
EDIT: My copy of the book is packed away somewhere, but Lords of Darkness has a spell of some sort that allows a standard vampire to go about in the sun at least for a period of time (handy for the vampires that run Westgate and want to keep their nature largely secret). Magic sunscreen. |
"Your 'reality,' sir, is lies and balderdash, and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever." (Baron Munchausen)
"If I find in myself a desire which no experience in this world can satisfy, the most probable explanation is that I was not made for this world." (C.S. Lewis, "Surprised by Joy") |
Edited by - Laerrigan on 03 Apr 2010 01:08:47 |
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Sill Alias
Senior Scribe
Kazakhstan
588 Posts |
Posted - 03 Apr 2010 : 09:41:20
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Spell, eh?
That doesn't sound safe, especially if some smart guy could place ward of dispelling.
I don't have enough willpower(just temptation of lore makes me crazy), so I'll stick to living state.
Great thanks. Now I know that there is much choices to be made. Now all I have to think is being always successive one, otherwise I'll have to be spectral harper for the rest of my undead life, which is not fun, unless you become unusual spectral harper like one of Seven Sisters. Work hard, die old. |
You can hear many tales from many mouths. The most difficult is to know which of them are not lies. - Sill Alias
"May your harp be unstrung, your dreams die and all your songs be unsung." - curse of the harper, The Code of the Harpers 2 ed.
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
Posted - 03 Apr 2010 : 20:04:12
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| Hmm, the turn this discussion is taking makes me think I might want to dust off my old Vamp atrifact for the whole sunlight issue. It was a rather powerful ring that basically allows a vampire to ignore most of the common weaknesses, such as sun, fire, and holy water(with a few other minor abilities). Of course, it is a MAJOR atrifact, in that there is only one, a la Rod of Seven Parts or Lum the Mad's Machine. I called it (approprately enough) the Ring of the Daywalker. The backstory on it is that it was created by a cabal of powerful vampire lord wizards, who promptly fought over it and killed each other off trying to possess it after it was made. Only one survived, and he supposedly destroyed all knowledge of how to create it. If anyone is interested, either pm me or I will see about submitting it to the Magic Shop for approval as a game item. Be careful, however, as it is VERY powerful, and should nly be used for a major quest, for obvious reasons. It was made for my homebrew world, but might fit just as well in an FR or Ravenloft campaign. |
The Goddess is alive, and magic is afoot.
"Where Science ends, Magic begins" -Spiral, Uncanny X-Men #491
"You idiots! You've captured their STUNT doubles!" -Spaceballs
Lothir's character background/stats: http://forum.candlekeep.com/pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=5469
My stories:
http://z3.invisionfree.com/Mickeys_Comic_Tavern/index.php?showforum=188
Lothir, courtesy of Sylinde (Deviant Art)/Luaxena (Chosen of Eilistraee)
http://sylinde.deviantart.com/#/d2z6e4u |
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John_Feaster
Acolyte
USA
4 Posts |
Posted - 26 Apr 2013 : 11:06:38
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I guess it all depends on what game you're playing. I'm still running a 1st edition AD&D game (with some modifications inspired by later editions AND several Dragon Magazine articles), and the first books were pretty clear on the subject. Page 18 of the box sets "Cyclopedia of the Realms" says...
"There are those in the Realms who reject the power of these self-claimed "deities", or choose to follow none of these gods as their own. The failure of the sky to fall upon the heads of these individuals indicates this is as good a course as pledging one's allegiance to a faith or deity."
Later books and editions changed a LOT, and have nothing to do with Ed Greenwoods actual 'Forgotten Realms' campaign. People who let the later editions dominate them...they're the ones who are stuck with the Wall of the Faithless; the "Spellplague; the revolving door of killed-resurrected deities (which seems silly as heck); vanishing geography, cultures and so on.
But then again...the books really only contain SUGGESTIONS you can either follow or ignore as you choose. Want Zhentil Keep? Just tell your players that YOUR timeline is separate from the one established in the novels and such. Never let YOUR campaign be dominated by Wizards of the Coast. Your game should always be YOUR game first. |
Running a 1stEd. Realms campaign set in Amn, using Empire of the Sands. |
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Barastir
Master of Realmslore
Brazil
1602 Posts |
Posted - 26 Apr 2013 : 11:47:32
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| You guys should check this thread about the wall, we had a nice discussion about the topic. |
"Goodness is not a natural state, but must be
fought for to be attained and maintained.
Lead by example.
Let your deeds speak your intentions.
Goodness radiated from the heart."
The Paladin's Virtues, excerpt from the "Quentin's Monograph"
(by Ed Greenwood) |
Edited by - Barastir on 26 Apr 2013 11:48:15 |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 26 Apr 2013 : 21:43:36
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quote:
Laerrigan
Proxy....I coulda sworn that was another one that lost its identity....
Proxies, at least as they are given within the 2E Planescape rules, are each unique and invariably have "special" (ie: "game-breaking") abilities and histories. Some might retain no knowledge of their lives, others might be cursed with the knowledge of a thousand lifetimes.
But vampirism isn't for everyone, charming friend Laerrigan, and vampires are just as susceptible to relentless entropy as every other. Few vampires live much longer than a few centuries - and even those who avoid being hunted will eventually succumb to bestial inhumanity or apathy. I think I would personally prefer utter oblivion over a path of mental erosion and irrevocable immortal insanity. No insult intended, you're a bit patchy but still beautiful, of course. |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 26 Apr 2013 21:49:35 |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 29 Apr 2013 : 17:20:50
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You gave me a great idea for my Realms campaign: a subplot about dealing with the Wall of the Faithless. Shattering the wall and allowing souls to pass on without engaging with the gods at all. Kinda like the end of His Dark Materials, minus the teen romance.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Rhymn
Acolyte
17 Posts |
Posted - 29 Apr 2013 : 20:27:08
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quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
You gave me a great idea for my Realms campaign: a subplot about dealing with the Wall of the Faithless. Shattering the wall and allowing souls to pass on without engaging with the gods at all. Kinda like the end of His Dark Materials, minus the teen romance.
Cheers
You can also shatter the Wall at the end of Mask of the Betrayer, if you're a computer gamer. You even get a feat for your trouble.
I always liked the idea of the Wall, personally. There's a symbiotic relationship between the gods and peoples of the Realms. If the gods aren't worshipped they fade away, so it's fitting that there should be a consequence for the people as well. |
Mystra Lives |
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TheHermit
Seeker
USA
60 Posts |
Posted - 30 Apr 2013 : 02:39:41
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quote:
Originally posted by John_Feaster
"There are those in the Realms who reject the power of these self-claimed "deities", or choose to follow none of these gods as their own. The failure of the sky to fall upon the heads of these individuals indicates this is as good a course as pledging one's allegiance to a faith or deity."
Of course, it's best to remember that while you may reject that a deity has power over you, that deity is under no obligation to feel the same way. |
- "Glitz & Klax's Potions & Elixirs"/"The Sandmen", Inside Ravens Bluff, The Living City; 1990; TSR, Inc.
- "The Far Guardians' Traveler's Mission", Port of Ravens Bluff; 1991, TSR, Inc.
- "Signs Painted", Polyhedron #70; April, 1992; TSR, Inc.
- Communications Director, Coliseum of Comics, Orlando, FL - http://coliseumofcomics.com/ |
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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader
USA
2708 Posts |
Posted - 01 May 2013 : 01:53:00
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| Even if you don't worship a specific deity, when you die, the deity who best represents your ideology will come to you. Not everyone has a patron deity. It's how you live your life and the principles you apply to your life. A deity will choose you because of that, whether you have paid specific homage to that god or not. |
Sweet water and light laughter |
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Aryalómë
Senior Scribe
USA
666 Posts |
Posted - 01 May 2013 : 04:34:51
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| If you're an atheist in the Realms, then you should face the consequences in death. Honestly, I think that when Realmsian atheists die, they shouldn't be given the chance to choose a patron deity or have a deity come to them. They decided their fate by no worshiping a god and deserve what they get in death. It's only right. |
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John_Feaster
Acolyte
USA
4 Posts |
Posted - 04 May 2013 : 21:01:33
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quote:
Originally posted by TheHermit
quote:
Originally posted by John_Feaster
"There are those in the Realms who reject the power of these self-claimed "deities", or choose to follow none of these gods as their own. The failure of the sky to fall upon the heads of these individuals indicates this is as good a course as pledging one's allegiance to a faith or deity."
Of course, it's best to remember that while you may reject that a deity has power over you, that deity is under no obligation to feel the same way.
I can understand that...but in the Realms, the gods all seem to be nothing more that super-powered 'people' as opposed to the beings who actually created everything. Those who are disolved in the "Wall of the Faithless" are destroyed for not having faith...in beings who keep getting killed off both by mortals, each other, and lesser powers. How could I have faith in a god who I KNOW for a fact was just an adventurer a few years ago...or what if years ago I was a follower of Leira (the old Chaotic Neutral goddess of Illusion) - does that mean I'm worshiping or petitioning the being (Leira herself) or the 'Portfolio' of 'Illusions'?
Then during the 'Time of Troubles' Cyric (the Justin Beiber of evil) steps in and kills Leira, taking her portfolio. Now 'Illusion' is under the dominion of Cyric and...what happens to me? Do I start worshiping Cyric? If I die still having faith in Leira, does that leave me at 'The Wall', because no god can speak for me? What happens to the souls that had once existed under Leira (that is to say, existed in her realms in Limbo)? Do they stay there - leaderless; or do they get sucked into the Abyss with the new worshipers of Cyric?
All in all, the ideas behind the Wall of the Faithless are silly as heck, and a person is punished for not having faith in what is obviously a broken system.
I mean, think about it. Adon abandons the worship of Sune when he feels she's vain and uncaring. He later takes to worshiping Midnight (Mystra), but is later driven mad (with the 'help' of Cyric) and commits suicide. When Midnight comes to collect his soul, Kelemvor stops her and send him to the Wall. Why? A Goddess was there to speak for him - To accept him. SHE understands that Adons 'loss of faith' was due to Cyrics meddling, and SHE forgives him. Kelemvor (legalistic and rule-bound) sends Adon to 'the Wall'. Thus, it doesn't matter what the believers deity says about the soul. All that matters is Kelemvor and his 'opinion' about the soul. In a world where faith is supposed to count for something, Kelemvor's position seems silly.
Was THIS the same way things were handled under Myrkul? |
Running a 1stEd. Realms campaign set in Amn, using Empire of the Sands. |
Edited by - John_Feaster on 04 May 2013 21:04:52 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36906 Posts |
Posted - 04 May 2013 : 21:47:58
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Kelemvor was doing his job. Adon had renounced all deities. Mystra was in violation of the rules for trying to claim him anyway... It wasn't Kel's opinion that Adon had turned away from Mystra, it was fact.
Or are you saying that any deity should be able to lay claim to any soul, regardless of the person's faith or lack thereof? |
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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader
USA
2708 Posts |
Posted - 04 May 2013 : 22:12:48
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| Adon didn't go to the Wall, he went to Dweamorheart, IIRC. Yeah, he lost faith in Mystra, but she forgave him, and he went to her realm. I seem to remember that towards the end of the last novel. |
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Am I doomed?
