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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
 Posted - 11 Mar 2010 : 21:29:58
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I've found scraps of information all over the place related to various military units, numbers and etc. belonging to this realm or that in the Forgotten Realms; but never anything truly comprehensive.
Have I missed something?
Is there any material that truly lays out some strong numbers for the actual military organizations of the various Kingdoms, City-States and etc. that exist in the Realms?
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The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4687 Posts |
Posted - 11 Mar 2010 : 22:11:21
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Off hand there clearly could be data points you did miss, however you also should recognize that data points are just that.
There is some information about the number of troops fielded, there are, IIRC, the normal guard strength planed for or considered normal. All such numbers are subject to change any day as time marches on. A dead Watch requires some time for replacement, an Army Unit killed reduces the overall numbers until others are inducted or choose to join. The various city states also build or reduce Guard and Watch based on current conditions.
At best all you can find is that the Watch consisted of <foo> numbers, with perhaps some details about they are equipped and lead. Such information is valid for at best a 10 day in times on conflict. All the data you see applies to a period of time, a major battle with orcs the Guard would be increased in numbers as to planing and every battle reduces the numbers (barring the rare chance that battle only damages the foes, without any harm to defending or attacking unit). |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
Edited by - Kentinal on 11 Mar 2010 22:14:14 |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 12 Mar 2010 : 03:43:51
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Sure...
What I'm talking about is maybe a book published (e-books included) that includes the various military organizations with numbers and such.
I have the Grey Box, the 2e Hardback book (can't recall name off hand) and several 3e sources...but I was wondering if anyone here had compiled anything or if there was actually something published. |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Thauramarth
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
729 Posts |
Posted - 12 Mar 2010 : 21:40:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
Sure...
I have the Grey Box, the 2e Hardback book (can't recall name off hand) and several 3e sources...but I was wondering if anyone here had compiled anything or if there was actually something published.
This is the Forgotten Realms Adventures hardback we are talking about, right? I can only speak with some certainty with regard to 1E and 2E products. There has not been a specific volume dealing with the military strengths of nations/cities. For mercenaries, however, there was Gold and Glory. The second edition supplement The Horde Campaign contains information on Yamun Khahan's horde, as well as some of his opponents (Shou Lung, Thay, Rashemen, the Army of the Alliance). |
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Brace Cormaeril
Learned Scribe
294 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jul 2010 : 17:22:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Thauramarth
quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
Sure...
I have the Grey Box, the 2e Hardback book (can't recall name off hand) and several 3e sources...but I was wondering if anyone here had compiled anything or if there was actually something published.
This is the Forgotten Realms Adventures hardback we are talking about, right? I can only speak with some certainty with regard to 1E and 2E products. There has not been a specific volume dealing with the military strengths of nations/cities. For mercenaries, however, there was Gold and Glory. The second edition supplement The Horde Campaign contains information on Yamun Khahan's horde, as well as some of his opponents (Shou Lung, Thay, Rashemen, the Army of the Alliance).
How does Cormyr manage to maintain it's military acumen? It seems to *very* infrequently flex it's military muscle.
Is there any evidence that Cormyr "lends" it military to other powers, much in the same way that real world militaries? |
The Silver Fire's Blade: A Novella in Nine Parts, Available Soon, in the Adventuring Forum!
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jul 2010 : 18:52:42
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My thoughts are that many folks miss the value of drill.
Any U.S. Soldier that goes into combat has been well trained (perhaps not as well as needed by my standards, but still very well trained compared to other nations). With the added edge of technology and greater funds, the U.S. military seems to be very adaptable, seasoned and of veteran abilities even when green troops are sent in.
The same could be said for Cormyr. Simply using constant drilling, field exercises and having a great deal of superior equipment, morale, and even technology (in the form of both mundane and magical items) the military of Cormyr is seen as being of veteran quality even when it doesn't flex its muscle very often.
There is of course also the wars it has fought in recent history: vs. Gondegal/Arabel, vs. Lashan of Scardale, vs. the Tuigan Horde and others I may have forgotten. Also, Cormyr is constantly at odds against goblins, Zhentilar, and etc.
I think it is a very well trained nation militarily.
More to your question though, I don't know much about it lending its military; though it does fight against the Pirates, sends patrols well beyond its naturally claimed borders and etc. |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jul 2010 : 19:02:22
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Cormyr has, on at least three occasions I can think of, acted on behalf of other nations with its troops, ostensibly to protect its own borders from those same eventual threats.
It has not 'lent out' troops, AFAIK, nor every used its military in any sort of mercenary capacity.
The Stonelands, and less-so the Goblin Marches and Tunlands, act as a 'training ground' for most of Cormyr's military. The constant threats of Red Wizards and Zhentarrim keep the War Wizards on their toes, and the every-century-or-so uprisings and rebellions keep everyone alert and 'in-practice'.
Cormyr's forces - including their wizards - train constantly, and are considered THE BEST trained standing-army in Faerun (even a little better then Waterdeep and Silverymoon's excellent military).
Several Purple dragons have gone-on to run mercenary companies after mustering-out, and one officer who killed a man and fled runs a 'kingdom' of sorts in the Marsh of Tun. In every case I have read, whenever ex-soldiers of Cormyr are mentioned, it is in some sort of position of authority, so one can assume their training is excellent indeed.
As for the OP's question, there is one tome published specifically with that sort of information, but unfortunately it almost entirely focuses on the eastern Realms (Kara-Tur and the Endless Wastes). It is FR12, Forgotten Realms Horde Campaign, and was designed with the then recently released Battle System rules in mind. There is some stuff about Cormyr's troops in there, along with some scraps about Zhentil keep's Orcs and a couple of other FR realms that sent troops to the Crusade (most notabley Sembia and The Dales). The offerings are rather meager though, when compared with the info on the eastern Troops. You cannot accurately gauge the size of those countries home-forces by what they sent to that war. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 15 Jul 2010 19:15:05 |
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IngoDjan
Learned Scribe
Brazil
146 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jul 2010 : 19:23:16
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The Silver Marches.
The Last Mythal give some nice ideas too. |
Ingo Djan
DUNGEON MASTER AO OF THE DIAMONDS!"I see the future repeat the past. It all is a museum of great news. The Time do not stop." |
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Brace Cormaeril
Learned Scribe
294 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jul 2010 : 19:28:52
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quote:
Originally posted by capnvan
quote:
Originally posted by Brace Cormaeril
quote:
Originally posted by Thauramarth
quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
Sure...
I have the Grey Box, the 2e Hardback book (can't recall name off hand) and several 3e sources...but I was wondering if anyone here had compiled anything or if there was actually something published.
This is the Forgotten Realms Adventures hardback we are talking about, right? I can only speak with some certainty with regard to 1E and 2E products. There has not been a specific volume dealing with the military strengths of nations/cities. For mercenaries, however, there was Gold and Glory. The second edition supplement The Horde Campaign contains information on Yamun Khahan's horde, as well as some of his opponents (Shou Lung, Thay, Rashemen, the Army of the Alliance).
How does Cormyr manage to maintain it's military acumen? It seems to *very* infrequently flex it's military muscle.
Very infrequently? Just within the last few years (pre-Spellplague) you've had the Gondegal uprising, the takeover of Tilverton, the crusade against the Horde, and the Death of the Dragon war. The latter two, in particular, meant a lot of casualties and rebuilding of the force, IIRC.
In addition, of course, you've got an active patrolling schedule - the frontiers on the Stonelands, the Vast Swamp/Sembia, and to the west of the High Horn all need to be patrolled on a regular and recurring basis. And, while much of the land is pacified, Cormyr is not without internal threats from the occasional brigand and monster as well, necessitating a need for regular Purple Dragon patrols within the realm as well, as we know from some of Ed's replies.
In other words, the Purple Dragons have hardly been hanging about the barracks for decades. If anything, they're probably some of the most seasoned professional soldiers around.
Edit: And Dalor got there before me!
Cool, I was probably thinking a little too in-line with the real world. The Unites States has been in a state of perpetual war since it's founding. I don't see Cormyr being a imperialistic. So, I thought maybe, like a lot of European states, Cormyr's military might be (sent) to train/reinforce other militaries.
I have fond memories of 'The Hoard' box, and the Battlesystem rules. Whem both were new, a Cormyrian lancer of mine, (Unearthed Arcana cavalier/Paladin/1.5e) Jon Holyblade (lol, what a name...) smashed through the Khahan's infantry, and obliterated a powerful, CE mystic attached to the Hoard. It was paticularly awesome, considering that as soon as Jon claimed his holy-sword, he never, *ever* seemed to encounter CE beings.
(Those familiar with 1e-2e holy swords will recognize how my DM was being quite the jerk, lol. As they were, in those days.) |
The Silver Fire's Blade: A Novella in Nine Parts, Available Soon, in the Adventuring Forum!
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jul 2010 : 07:33:31
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Well, I will just estimate based on the books I have then.
Thanks for the input all... |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Zireael
Master of Realmslore
Poland
1190 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jul 2010 : 11:51:17
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quote:
Originally posted by capnvan
quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
Well, I will just estimate based on the books I have then.
Thanks for the input all...
Dalor, there's always Gold & Glory, which, while it's only about mercenary companies, might give you a place to start. Hordes of Dragonspear is basically a Battlesystem module.
Other than that, I think you're on your own. And I've found that many sources can be contradictory - most notably accounts of the size of the Cormyrean military, for me, at least. I suspect that in part that was left to the DM as a design decision - that way it's harder for your resident lore jockey to say, "Hey, there couldn't be that many Purple Dragons chasing us!"
Good luck! 
Gold & Glory is for download on Wizards site - thus my question - is it any good? |
SiNafay Vrinn, the daughter of Lloth, from Ched Nasad!
http://zireael07.wordpress.com/ |
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Thauramarth
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
729 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jul 2010 : 12:32:53
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quote:
Originally posted by Zireael
Gold & Glory is for download on Wizards site - thus my question - is it any good?
It's OK-ish, I think. I have not used it often for gaming purposes. Done in the style of the Ospreys series military reference books. It was interesting to see a number of mercenary organisations described to a bit of detail. One thing I had some reservations about was that, in my view, there was a disproportionate number of "exotic" mercenary bands (monster-centered, etc.), but that's a minor quibble. I got over it through the realisation that even Gold and Glory covers only a limited number, and if you're covering a limited number, you might just as well go for the flashiest ones.
But, given that it's available for free on the Wizards site - you can just download it and see if you like it . There's simply no reason not to. |
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2449 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jul 2010 : 13:42:59
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| It's definitely one of the weaker Realms products, especially compared to some of the other early FR books (like Dwarves Deep) that it came out in sequence with. But it's not a bad product, and there's always bits and pieces that are of interest even if you don't use any of the full-up merc companies. |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jul 2010 : 02:33:41
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Aye, Gold and Glory isn't so bad...and it did at least give me an idea years ago of what size mercenary companies usually were.
Heck, in Europe, mercenary armies were often quite large enough to nearly be strong enough to tackle national armies...if they weren't handled properly.
It seems in the Forgotten Realms, there is so much magic that if your army is too big it is only a target for a wizard with an assortment of evasive magics to protect him while he deals out severe damage with his simple wand of fireballs! |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jul 2010 : 20:00:41
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Yup.
And I think Dalor is onto something; much like our modern militarys, foot-soldiers are becoming obsolete. Specially trained soldiers (like Harpers and High Knights  ) for things like infiltrations and intelligence-gathering, and Mages as WMDs, seem more the norm. It would be counter-intuitive to spend a lot of Gold on building a massive army that was forced to stay tightly-packed just because of its size. As a table-top miniatures player as well, I know a little something about using specific (loose) formations when Mages are about.
So, even though the Realms appear to be less-civilized then Earth cultures in many ways, the truth is that they are equal to, or even surpass, us thanks to magic.
I also have my theories about non-humans affecting human culture as well - dwarves and elves are probably why their metallurgy is so advanced, and their 'bronze age', if they ever had one, was extremely short.
Magic also helps with the advancement of the medical sciences - who needs and X-ray or a cat-scan when you have scrying and 'heal-all' spells. Realmsians seem to have a much greater knowledge of biology and how the natural world works then the folks of our own medieval era.
So when someone says that the realms are 'medieval', that's actually pretty far from the truth. Just the equality shown women proves that.
I read a pretty good yarn years ago (I forget the title), and although it was meant as light-comedy, it made an interesting point. The main character was one of those 'Connecticut Yankee in King Arthurs Court' types, and when he got to the villain's lair, he was very surprised to find an elevator and electric lighting inside. The female lead (who was from this alternate fantasy world) said "Electricity? Sure, we've had that for years, but the people who tried to promote it were driven off. Why would any sane person want that stuff crawling around inside their walls?"
The point: just because something 'took off' here, doesn't mean it would have been popular somewhere else. I think the Realms could be more advanced then Earth scientifically, just because the cultures are much older. Two things prevent that - magic makes certain types of science redundant, and the nature of Realmspace doesn't allow tech above steam-level.
Anyhow, I went off on a tangent again - I just wanted to say that Dalor's observation of realms armies makes more sense to me then anything I've seen. You build them really big, and all you do is give some mages an easy target. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 17 Jul 2010 20:02:47 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jul 2010 : 00:20:32
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Was trying to find some info on Cormyr last night, and did something I always neglect to do when researching - look at the cover of the product!
In the 2e Cormyr supplement, on the back cover, you will find troops-counts for the major settlements within Cormyr. 
That's just standing-army, and there is probably quite a large number of militia that can be called up (and was, during the crusade), and all of the nobles have 'house troops' (although many lesser, poorer noble houses probably have barely enough to be considered a 'bodygaurd'), which the crown can also call upon in times of war through scutage (Shield tax). Some of the more powerful noble families - like the Royal families - practically have private armies.
So, although most of the noble-troops aren't included, that gives you a good idea of what and how much is stationed where.
I also noted a couple of locales I hadn't placed before.
Must check more 'covers' from now on. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jul 2010 : 03:24:31
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| I actually don't have that 2e book...care to share in a PM? Maybe here? |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jul 2010 : 05:23:09
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Since it is a page from an old source, and doesn't really contain any lore beyond city statistics, and it is 2 editions out-of-date, I don't 'think' posting it should be a problem.
Cormyr's Military |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2449 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jul 2010 : 15:06:37
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I think Markus has a good point, but I think there are also times when you would see the sort of tight-rank, mass formations that were common on Earth for so long. For that matter, we have seen them in Realms fiction (Cormyr vs the Magelords' undead horde), and the reason is simply that against certain types of foes, that kind of formation is invaluable.
A line of skirmishers isn't going to do anything against an orc horde except die. They aren't even going to slow them down. If you're going to take on huge numbers of enemies that really want to roll over you, you need to have numbers of your own and tight ranks, and preferably lots of magic.
I'd imagine that there would be a number of different types of warfare, each depending on the opponent. City-states would fight each other differently than nations, and both would fight differently than they would against magic-poor hordes. And then some groups would prefer to maintain their tight ranks even when fighting other magic-rich groups, and would just mix large number of wizards and priests into the ranks to provide cover. I think that would be the most powerful type of formation, but since you'd need enough wizards to both protect your people and to go after the enemy's wizards, I doubt many cultures could actually do it properly. |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4687 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jul 2010 : 16:35:02
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Tactics are always a factor of foe and terrain.
In forest area even skirmishers could be effective against an orc horde, kill more of them before you die. It is always a number game, send 500 to stop/delay at a bridge or fort knowing they will die but buy time.
Clearly a massed organized force going against a party of Wizards clearly not the best tactic. Mass effect spells (and there are many) makes a tight group less likely to win and clearly could lose more then they kill.
There again even depleting the Wizards spells could be a tactic, it depends on plan for overall success.
A battle does not matter - you can lose many as long as you win the war.
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"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jul 2010 : 17:36:46
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quote:
Originally posted by capnvan
Edit: And MT, sorry if I'm stepping on your toes. I'm just concerned that Alaundo, the Sage, Wooly etc. have expressed their uncertainty about what would be appropriate for CK to link to. I know that you, of all people, having gone through the debacles with your wonderful map series, are acting in good faith.
First, if they feel it is inappropriate, they can delete my post, or at least the link (after which I will probably - if I remember - pull it down off my photobucket).
Second, I used to post things similar to that (entire pages from old MM's sometimes) on the WotC site itself, and they never bothered me about it. The difference here being they own the material, so posting it on their own site might be something they are less-likely to find issue with.
Either way, I felt it was better to be up-front with what I was doing, rather then have them think I am mailing PDF sourcebooks to people wholesale. That particular page was from a scan of my own physical source, but I do own many sourcebooks on PDF that I purchased from Paizo, and they can check Paizo's records to confirm that.
I'd rather be honest and get smacked, then accused of something less respectable.
Besides, I think some of the designers that hangout in these hallowed halls may have also been unaware of that list, and may find it helpful that I posted it here. At least, that is my hope. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 19 Jul 2010 17:40:06 |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jul 2010 : 22:21:20
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| Many thanks MT! |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Jakuta Khan
Senior Scribe
496 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jul 2010 : 13:42:04
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only numbers I have seen were for the sythillisian empire of the small teeth.
30.000 kobolds
24.000 goblins
10.000 hobgoblins !!!!!!!!!!!!
4.800 ogres
45 Hill Giants
this was the original army that attacke in 1370, numbers of later on not found yet. |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jul 2010 : 16:49:35
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| where are those numbers from? What book? |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Jakuta Khan
Senior Scribe
496 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jul 2010 : 17:00:11
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They are from "lands of Intrigue" 2e, Page 59 under the entry "sythillisian empire"
according to the size of the small teeth, this makes me shudder with the potential numbers of humanoids lurking in the orsraun mts. or other larger mountains.
Especially since the small teeth were not famous for being "overpacked" with humanoids earlier.... |
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Jakuta Khan
Senior Scribe
496 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jul 2010 : 17:09:26
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just have to throw this,
these numbers presented leave obould many arrows look like a small child, assuming he only had 30.000 troops and three to four dozen frost giants...
I just want to imagine what alone this army, after 14 yrs of preparation, including sufficient hobgoblins to even guide all the gobbos and kobolds efficiently could have done to the region.
not to mention almost 5000 ogres together with 45 hill giants...
45 companies of 100 ogres each, led by a hill-giant and a dozen hobgoblins?
Man these are dreams coming true!!
not to forget their support from the twin towers of eternal eclypse |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jul 2010 : 00:15:25
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Yes...I have to agree...these numbers are HUGE!
Most had to have come from the Upper Dark...are there any references anywhere on what strengths of the domains are that lay beneath the Small Teeth?
EDIT: Also, are these the total populations...or the actual military fighting members of these races? |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
Edited by - Dalor Darden on 21 Jul 2010 00:16:22 |
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Thauramarth
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
729 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jul 2010 : 08:27:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
Yes...I have to agree...these numbers are HUGE!
Most had to have come from the Upper Dark...are there any references anywhere on what strengths of the domains are that lay beneath the Small Teeth?
EDIT: Also, are these the total populations...or the actual military fighting members of these races?
The numbers in Lands of Intrigue are what is "included in the forces." Although this may cover some non-combattants, it certainly does not include the full population.
Some other numbers - at the outset of his campaign against Shou Lung, Yamun Khahan's horde counted something like three hundred thousand warriors. Shou Lung's armed forces were greater in number.
The Battle of the Bones saw about the same number of goblinoids ("The host included nigh unto 200,000 goblins, tens of thousands of affiliated orcs and kobolds, and a few thousand hobgoblins leading detachments of goblins or orcs."; Elminster's Ecologies, Appendix 1, p. 10) facing off against around 140,000 humans and demihumans.
Orc hordes might be even more numerous. |
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Zireael
Master of Realmslore
Poland
1190 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jul 2010 : 10:44:26
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And my friends said there are no huge armies in the Realms. I'll have to direct them to this scroll.
On topic - what do you think about Aglarond's victories over Thay in the 2ed? Or about Netheril vs. Cormyr in 4e? Is magic really that important for winning wars in the Realms? |
SiNafay Vrinn, the daughter of Lloth, from Ched Nasad!
http://zireael07.wordpress.com/ |
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Jakuta Khan
Senior Scribe
496 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jul 2010 : 11:01:16
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For me, definately a big "YES"
the shadovar army for example, sports regular troops with minimum 1 level of sorcerer.
Just imagine all of your troops being able to cast 3+ magic missiles in a mass battle....
regular rank & file troops drop like crazy before even getting in touch with the enemy, and this is only small 1st level spells... |
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2449 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jul 2010 : 13:28:30
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Absolutely yes. MarkusTay and I and others have expounded on that in this and other scrolls; essentially, magic makes possible modern force mixes (including long-range artillery fire and the need to guard against it) in a "medieval" setting.
Two examples of heavy magic use in battles spring to mind. The first is the "March to Extinction" detailed in the Netheril boxed set: forty or fifty thousand humans from the then-very-young nation of Netheril against several million orcs in the nearby mountains. The humans were tired of getting hit with hordes every few decades, so they built a series of gates ringing the mountains and used them to cut off all escape. So whenever orcs tried to get out of the mountains, the entire human force could combine to destroy them, and then disperse again to continue hunting down and destroying orc villages.
The other is from Elaine's novel The Floodgate, and is a mass battle between the armies of Mulhorand and Halruaa. Halruaa is on the defensive, strategically surprised, and massively outnumbered... and they wipe the floor with the Mulhorandi. One memorable spell combo slays thousands of Mulhorandi soldiers, pulls their blood into a gigantic elemental, and then animates their skeletons. And then later we get an equally-enormous roc made of fire that destroys the elemental and takes out even more thousands of Mulhorandi.
As for sizes of hordes, Fall of Myth Drannor notes that the horde that destroyed the city was around 250,000 strong, and that it was small to tiny compared to most hordes. The thing that made it deadly was its genius generals, its previously-unheard of level of organization (it was an army, not a horde), and a comparatively high percentage of "things worse than orcs" (ogres, gnolls, mezzoloths, etc.). I made some notes years back about the estimated sizes of Myth Drannor's army in return; I'll see if I can't hunt those down when I get home. |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
Edited by - Hoondatha on 21 Jul 2010 13:29:12 |
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Military Strength of the Realms
