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Weyr
Acolyte
11 Posts |
 Posted - 02 Mar 2010 : 07:07:10
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How are psionicists treated in the Outer Planes and Sigil? I know generally in the more Lawful planes like Mechanus, it would be frowned on similarly to spellcasting, but that's about it. Furthermore, are they more likely? Less likely?
I tried doing a search on this beforehand, but I couldn't find any information on it both in the AD&D books, Planescape books, or here on Candlekeep.
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Thauramarth
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
732 Posts |
Posted - 02 Mar 2010 : 07:45:23
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quote:
Originally posted by Weyr
How are psionicists treated in the Outer Planes and Sigil? I know generally in the more Lawful planes like Mechanus, it would be frowned on similarly to spellcasting, but that's about it. Furthermore, are they more likely? Less likely?
I tried doing a search on this beforehand, but I couldn't find any information on it both in the AD&D books, Planescape books, or here on Candlekeep.
Psionics was never fully integrated in Planescape, so it is unlikley that there is anything official. My take on it has always been that they are very much treated in the same way as magic-users, except that, in the Outer Planes, they may get some more respect. After all, in the Planes, "Belief is Power", and someone (or something) who can make things happen without any outer trappings (no wriggling of fingers, no jibber-jabber in incomprehensible languages) probably illustrates "Belief is Power" more than anybody else.
However, there used to be a "psionics in the Planescape setting" netbook. I don't have it anymore as such, having cut and pasted it into my all-encompassing comprehensive word files on 2nd Edition psionics, but it's still available for download at the good old Blue Troll's website, just look for "psionics in planescape". It's a ZIP-file of a Word document, and any old version of Word will do (I think the netbook was created in 1996 or 1997).
Hope this helps. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 02 Mar 2010 : 07:59:11
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As I recall, psionics usually costed more depending on how different the character's alignment was from the Outer Plane he/she was on. The rationale was that, since psionics came from the mind, if an Outer Plane was composed of a differing alignment, it would effectively resist, and try to suppress, the character's thoughts. Thus, psionics costed more.
On Outer Planes which more appropriately matched the character's alignment, the environment was conducive to the character's thought patterns already, so reality was more easily modified.
On the Astral, psionics should be through the roof, especially Meta-Creativity. Maybe a huge bonus of effective Manifester level.
The Inner Planes, being composed of physical material, and not at all from thought, could have penalties assigned to them, since it's harder for your mind to control reality.
I guess you could say that psionics are like an odd version of belief controlling reality on the Outer Planes. With psionics, energy comes from a character's mind and body and is used to achieve different results. One take on it is that the character is believing he can do the things, and forces his will on reality. The Prime Material Plane, though, is much less mentally malleable than the Outer Planes, so it takes a much more concerted effort by a more unique individual.
I've always wanted to make psionics have a more interesting relation with the planes, in much the same way magic did in 2e, but you always run into problems of balance and rewarding psions for staying on certain planes. That's the problem with the alignment based bonuses/penalties.
At least I shall try to make some interesting effects happen on the Astral, since its pretty much THE plane of psionics, but we'll see. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
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Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 02 Mar 2010 08:01:06 |
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Weyr
Acolyte
11 Posts |
Posted - 02 Mar 2010 : 09:17:58
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| Thanks for all the help! Here's another question. How would a planar psionicist be different from a Prime? Also, in a place where belief is power, wouldn't that also raise some eyebrows? Generally one person's will isn't enough to alter reality, and you'd think that would gain psionicists as many enemies as allies. |
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Snowblood
Senior Scribe
Australia
388 Posts |
Posted - 03 Mar 2010 : 13:26:09
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| we run a second edit campaign with Psionics integrated easily....lots of early darksun stuff has good use of Mind powers...makes running them quite easy..... |
Aryvandaar, Ilythiir, Arnothoi, Orva, Sarphil, Anauria/Asram/Hlondath, Uvaeren, Braceldaur, Ilodhar, Lisenaar, Imaskar, Miyeritar, Orishaar, Shantel Othrieir, Keltormir, Eaerlann, Ammarindar, Siluvanede, Sharrven, Illefarn, Ardeep, Rystal Wood, Evereska are all available here for download:http://phasai.deviantart.com/gallery/
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Darkmeer
Senior Scribe
USA
505 Posts |
Posted - 06 Mar 2010 : 18:39:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Weyr
Thanks for all the help! Here's another question. How would a planar psionicist be different from a Prime? Also, in a place where belief is power, wouldn't that also raise some eyebrows? Generally one person's will isn't enough to alter reality, and you'd think that would gain psionicists as many enemies as allies.
Quoting the Player's Guide to the Planes (from the Planescape Boxed Set, page 13):
"Psionicists are viewed simply as another type of wizard."
That's the only real line that there is about them. Although, given how tied to the astral most of the Outer planes are, I'd see no real difference between Planar and Prime Psionicicsts.
Now, as to the Inner Planes, with only the connection to the ethereal, I can see the power of Psionics generally reduced. Now, that's not to say that there aren't some metacreative folks who've found a way to tap the ethereal instead of the astral, but it's going to be much harder to do. A 2-step power reduction might be in order here. So, either it costs 2x as much to use psionics, or the general power level is reduced by 25-30%. That's your call, though.
You have to remember that Gith & Githzerai abound (okay, not abound, but can be found easier) on the planes. They are both relatively naturally psionic, and remember that several major NPC's in Sigil itself are Psionic in nature (the Us, a mind flayer or three, etc.). Then there are the powers of psionics, Ilsensine and his bunch, which also make up a sizeable destructive force on the outer planes.
Food for thought.
/d
PS: I love both Psionics AND Planescape, which makes me happy to see this thread, I'd be especially interested to see any Realms-based psionic characters out there, it would be quite a fun time! |
"These people are my family, not just friends, and if you want to get to them you gotta go through ME." |
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Weyr
Acolyte
11 Posts |
Posted - 29 Sep 2010 : 01:45:56
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Hate to do threadromancy on this, but it recently came back up.
So, good scribes. After a long time, my psionicist may see daylight. A LN human from the planes, who worships Oghma.
Starting at level 3, Psychokinesis as the primary discipline. I was thinking about either Clair-sentience or Telepathy as secondary disciplines--however, Clairsentience seems to be hilariously limited in its uses considering the name of the discipline. And, gigantic costs of the Telepathy discipline aside, my character would shun the applications of Post-Hypnotic Suggestion, Domination, and the like as effectively hard-wiring and rewriting the person. Something that's morally wrong. Which, it seems as though a large portion of Telepathy is similarly cut off by this.
So...between the two, is there anything particularly useful that I'm missing with 2 Sciences and 7 Devotions?
Also, as an Oghmite, I was debating what plane/city, or faction would color his perspective the most. I was thinking of making his home plane Elysium, though I don't see any particular faction catching his eye. Basically looking for things to help give him flavor and develop his personality at this point.
Apologies for the large block of text, but any help would be appreciated. |
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Shemmy
Senior Scribe
USA
492 Posts |
Posted - 29 Sep 2010 : 08:34:11
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There wasn't much overtly, and very very very little in terms of mechanical reference to psionics.
It was there in the flavor for the descriptions of Illsensine's domain in the Outlands (Caverns of the Mind) certainly. And off the top of my head, I believe that Factol Darius of the Signers had some psionic wild talents. |
Shemeska the Marauder, King of the Crosstrade; voted #1 best Arcanaloth in Sigil two hundred years running by the people who know what's best for them; chant broker; prospective Sigil council member next election; and official travel agent for Chamada Holiday specials LLC.
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Thauramarth
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
732 Posts |
Posted - 29 Sep 2010 : 11:48:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Weyr
So...between the two, is there anything particularly useful that I'm missing with 2 Sciences and 7 Devotions?
I would not think so. I think that telepathy would be very useful for information gathering and communication - sight link, sound link, etc. are very useful for information gathering, while mindlink and/or send thoughts would be invaluable in communication across the planes (just don't start contacting fiends - bad things will happen).
quote:
Originally posted by Weyr
Also, as an Oghmite, I was debating what plane/city, or faction would color his perspective the most. I was thinking of making his home plane Elysium, though I don't see any particular faction catching his eye. Basically looking for things to help give him flavor and develop his personality at this point.
Apologies for the large block of text, but any help would be appreciated.
Factionwise, there's many angles for a psionicist.F irst that springs to mind would be the Transcendent Order (body and mind, thought and action being one). Also good options: the Sign of One ("It is by will alone I set my mind in motion" - and the universe, for that matter); the Society of Sensation (imagine what you can experience by actually being in someone else's mind...), the Believers of the Source (Improve, improve, improve yourself); the Fraternity of Order (knowledge rules, always good for an Oghmite).
Also-rans: the Free League (just about anyone can fit in there -"Give me freedom or I'll give you distintegration"), the Revolutionary League (ditto; a TK psionicist can give new meanings to the notion of a distintegrating power structure), the Fated (I control my own destiny, and I can rely on my mind to carry me through...); the Harmonium.
Not really: the Mercykillers (more interested in action along rigid guidelines than knowledge), the Dustmen (very much alive, you are), the Bleak Cabal (a bit too gloomy), the Doomguard (does not seem to fit Oghma's basic tenants, which involves creation of knowledge, amongst other things).
Definitely not: the Athar (your psionicst does worship Oghma), the Xaositects (do not really fit the basic orderly structure of the psionicist's mind). |
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2450 Posts |
Posted - 29 Sep 2010 : 16:04:11
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On the lack of powers front, see if you can find the Dark Sun books Dragon Kings and (especially) The Will and the Way. The Will and the Way is an incredible resource for 2e psionicists. Don't worry about the Dark Sun logo on the cover, only the first few chapters are DS-specific, the rest of it is setting-neutral.
I'm a huge fan of psychoportation, as well as psychometabolism. I'm currently running a psychoporter in a DS pbp game, and he's so incredibly fun. I'm not that great in combat, but I can move people like no other starting character (and even most mid-level characters) can ever dream of. Dimension door is good enough, but Wormhole (TWTW)is even better. Psychometabolism can provide either hand-to-hand combat capability or some of your few healing powers, and is another good choice for a second discipline. |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36880 Posts |
Posted - 30 Sep 2010 : 03:40:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Hoondatha
On the lack of powers front, see if you can find the Dark Sun books Dragon Kings and (especially) The Will and the Way. The Will and the Way is an incredible resource for 2e psionicists. Don't worry about the Dark Sun logo on the cover, only the first few chapters are DS-specific, the rest of it is setting-neutral.
I'm a huge fan of psychoportation, as well as psychometabolism. I'm currently running a psychoporter in a DS pbp game, and he's so incredibly fun. I'm not that great in combat, but I can move people like no other starting character (and even most mid-level characters) can ever dream of. Dimension door is good enough, but Wormhole (TWTW)is even better. Psychometabolism can provide either hand-to-hand combat capability or some of your few healing powers, and is another good choice for a second discipline.
You know, I made a point of buying both of those books -- twice! -- for the psionic content. Good stuff! I'm a fan of psychokinectics and psychometabolics, meself. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 30 Sep 2010 : 04:20:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Hoondatha
On the lack of powers front, see if you can find the Dark Sun books Dragon Kings and (especially) The Will and the Way. The Will and the Way is an incredible resource for 2e psionicists. Don't worry about the Dark Sun logo on the cover, only the first few chapters are DS-specific, the rest of it is setting-neutral.
I'm a huge fan of psychoportation, as well as psychometabolism. I'm currently running a psychoporter in a DS pbp game, and he's so incredibly fun. I'm not that great in combat, but I can move people like no other starting character (and even most mid-level characters) can ever dream of. Dimension door is good enough, but Wormhole (TWTW)is even better. Psychometabolism can provide either hand-to-hand combat capability or some of your few healing powers, and is another good choice for a second discipline.
You know, I made a point of buying both of those books -- twice! -- for the psionic content. Good stuff! I'm a fan of psychokinectics and psychometabolics, meself.
I'm inclined to agree. In fact, I don't actually consider those two tomes as exclusive DARK SUN sources. I'm regularly borrowing them for practically every game I have the opportunity to run. Even during my MechWarrior game back in '08. Good times!  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Weyr
Acolyte
11 Posts |
Posted - 30 Sep 2010 : 04:35:30
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Updated: Had to go to level 1 due to a campaign reset. DM wasn't happy with the way things are going, so the party agreed through consensus to start over. Still thinking Psychokinesis as the primary (if for nothing else than utility and minor combat boosts. With 26 PSP, Psychometabolism's maintenance seems to be huge.)
Had to think about it...Transcendant Order seems perversely chaotic for what it preaches--acting without hesitation. Godsmen weren't really a good fit either.
Basically, I narrowed it down to Sensates, actually. I figured from an Oghmite's point of view, learning through experience is just another field to explore. |
Edited by - Weyr on 30 Sep 2010 04:37:29 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 30 Sep 2010 : 19:16:29
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My copy of The Will and The Way is still shrink-wrapped (as is much of my Planescape stuff).
Whenever I think of opening any of it, I remember that I will probably never use any of it in-game, and it is probably worth more still sealed. I may need some spending money at next year's GenCon, and having a bunch of unopened 2e products might be my cash-cow.  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 30 Sep 2010 19:17:15 |
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Quale
Master of Realmslore
1757 Posts |
Posted - 30 Sep 2010 : 21:41:49
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Transcendent Order is true neutral, tuning in to the cadence of the planes, it seems that way but their actions are not chaotic. But I agree, it's not for Oghma, Sensates are a much better idea. Guvners too.
In 2e it think the Astral does not touch the Inner Planes, you could say that the psionics there manipulate proto-matter.
Edit http://www.mimir.net/outlands/psionics.shtml |
Edited by - Quale on 30 Sep 2010 22:41:02 |
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2450 Posts |
Posted - 30 Sep 2010 : 22:56:15
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| 2e psionics don't manipulate anything except their own inner will, and, sometimes, their own bodies. That's one of the things that irked me most about 3e psionics: they tried to attach psionics to an external energy source, and that's just completely counter to what psionics is about. |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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Quale
Master of Realmslore
1757 Posts |
Posted - 30 Sep 2010 : 23:25:04
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I don't see it that way, particularly if the PC is a signer, the mind creates the world, his body is no different from anything external, everything is one.
There's also the githzerai who control Limbo and create zerth blades, what about telekinesis? |
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Weyr
Acolyte
11 Posts |
Posted - 06 Oct 2010 : 00:02:40
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I decided to have him join the Sensates after all, and keep with Psychokinesis as the primary discipline.
So, my last question..Any suggestions on playing an Oghmite? |
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2450 Posts |
Posted - 06 Oct 2010 : 16:51:40
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That's not a faith I've played before, so I can't be of much help. But you'd probably be a very curious person, always looking for new knowledge.
Do you have Faiths and Avatars? The 2e god books are probably your best reference. Also, there are a couple of Oghmanite worshippers in the Blackstaff novel, if you're looking for character references. |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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Psionics in the Planes (AD&D)
