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Noxica
Acolyte
23 Posts |
 Posted - 16 Feb 2010 : 15:09:53
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This is a two part question..
From what I know, Ioulaum is just sitting around in the Underdark as an undead overmind creating Alhoon's and brewing masterful plans, (waiting for DM intervention).
Any news on him in 4e? Has he done anything or died? He has to be once of the oldest figures in FR predating even Larloch.
Which segways into my next question, Larloch is a Netheril prince but what information is there about who he was during the times of Netheril, what enclave did he run and how did he survive Karsus folly?
I have Netheril: Empire of Magic, which is great but lacks information about the above scenarios.
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Knight of the Gate
Senior Scribe
USA
624 Posts |
Posted - 16 Feb 2010 : 16:10:42
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Short version: Larloch was the ruler of Jiksidur (sp?) which he was flying over Narfell/Raumathar when certain divinations told him that the Weave was about to poof out: He escaped his enclave on dragonback.
The full story is in LEoF.
BTW, Jiksidur crashed in the Great Dale and is apparently largely undisturbed. |
How can life be so bountiful, providing such sublime rewards for mediocrity? -Umberto Ecco |
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Noxica
Acolyte
23 Posts |
Posted - 16 Feb 2010 : 16:32:37
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LEoF?
*sorry I don't know what that is!* |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3287 Posts |
Posted - 16 Feb 2010 : 16:46:44
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Lost Empires of Faerun. 3.5 book, very good. |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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Knight of the Gate
Senior Scribe
USA
624 Posts |
Posted - 16 Feb 2010 : 18:26:46
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And for the record, if you have issues with abbreviations in the future, take a look @ the FAQ- it lists the most common book abbreviations used here at the 'Keep.
And Brimmy's right: LEoF is one of the best FR supplements of 3.x, IMO (right up there with Serpent Kingdoms): I had assumed that you had access to LEoF, since that's where Ioulam's current whereabouts are revealed. |
How can life be so bountiful, providing such sublime rewards for mediocrity? -Umberto Ecco |
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Noxica
Acolyte
23 Posts |
Posted - 17 Feb 2010 : 02:18:11
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I learned about his current whereabouts from wizards of the coast website and a few wiki pages, Really I hear him mentioned so much in the Netheril book and its quiet apparent he abandons ship before Netheril falls. So I have been doing the leg work, Ill check some local book stores see if I can grab that book it sounds like exactly what I am after,
Thank Ye Both! |
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Knight of the Gate
Senior Scribe
USA
624 Posts |
Posted - 17 Feb 2010 : 04:41:55
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| There have been many, many qustions about Larloch in the 'Ask Ed' thread- and Ed's answer (to whatever question on the topic) is almost always a variation on the theme of "Larloch is a Don't Go There NPC"- in other words, PC's are never meant to be head-to-head with him, as he's all but a Power in his own right. He has 60+ Netherese liches to throw at the PCs before they ever get to him, and he himself is (Lords of Darkness stats notwithstanding) a ~47th level Wizard and an Ultra-Lich (meaning that he has a slew of self-given powers including 100% magic reflection) and basically resides in the realm of Don't Go There. He's not a meddler (insofar as anything which might antagonize the PCs) but is more of a 'player behind the scenes' that your players will likely never even hear of, let alone confront. |
How can life be so bountiful, providing such sublime rewards for mediocrity? -Umberto Ecco |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36803 Posts |
Posted - 17 Feb 2010 : 05:26:46
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And here's one of the Ed tidbits... I particularly like this one because not only was it something that just randomly occurred to me one day, but because it's also an interesting angle:
quote:
To Wooly Rupert: when you post sentences like this one: “And though I can't think of any evidence to support it, it's not impossible that part of what Larloch is doing is containing something...” be aware that you are (ahem) VERY perceptive.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31772 Posts |
Posted - 17 Feb 2010 : 06:10:32
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We've all thought about that kinda thing at one time or another.
Ed's answers imply that Larloch MAY have some plots, but if he does, they're so wide-reaching, complicated, and clandestine that virtually no one in the Realms [including the Chosen] knows what they are.
One of his current 'plots' revolved around controlling portals and portal networks throughout Faerűn. He's looking at controlling the gates indirectly. In the sense that he'll be doing a couple of things:-
1. Monitoring people movement; who goes where and more importantly, why;
2. Putting in place magics to control creatures or people using 'his' portals, or at the very least access their knowledge/memories;
3. Using his knowledge of portals and portal networks to bring groups or individuals into conflict and thereby benefiting from the fallout.
All of this is intended to be done without the hand of Larloch being apparent. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Noxica
Acolyte
23 Posts |
Posted - 17 Feb 2010 : 09:44:57
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| I know hes a big player and I won't ever think of taking him on, I was just curious more about his up coming and what was new with him since 4ed, since so many weave related npcs seem to be disappearing (being killed off). |
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Nicolai Withander
Master of Realmslore
Denmark
1093 Posts |
Posted - 21 Feb 2010 : 16:30:23
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| Im pretty sure they are brewing on some way to resurrect Karsus. Then Take he power from Szass Tam, and bring Mystra back to life! Then they will all rule a nice good old realm as we know it!!! |
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Nicolai Withander
Master of Realmslore
Denmark
1093 Posts |
Posted - 21 Feb 2010 : 16:31:17
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| Im pretty sure they are brewing on some way to resurrect Karsus. Then Take he power from Szass Tam, and bring Mystra back to life! Then they will all rule a nice good old realm as we know it!!! |
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_Jarlaxle_
Senior Scribe
Germany
584 Posts |
Posted - 21 Feb 2010 : 17:12:58
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| What would they want from Karsus? |
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Nicolai Withander
Master of Realmslore
Denmark
1093 Posts |
Posted - 21 Feb 2010 : 18:02:15
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They are the 3 most powerful mortal spellcasters of all time. They could woop Szass Tam as easy as stealing candy from a baby! And karsus might still remember some of his Avatar spell and they could all become new gods, that would slay bane and Shar and what not
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3243 Posts |
Posted - 21 Feb 2010 : 18:42:01
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| And... Karsus can't be brought back since he's a dead god. If they figure out how to bring him back, then they can skip the Karsus step and bring Mystra back directly. |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
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Nicolai Withander
Master of Realmslore
Denmark
1093 Posts |
Posted - 21 Feb 2010 : 20:10:04
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| interesting... well if anybody if up to the task its them! Im rooting for them!!!! |
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_Jarlaxle_
Senior Scribe
Germany
584 Posts |
Posted - 22 Feb 2010 : 12:58:46
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| Even if they would have been the most powerfull spellcasters ever and even if Iolaum and Larloch would have any interest in working together suddenly they won't have any interest in Karsus. Karsus was mighty and talentet but not that mighty and why would they take the risk to bring him back so he can try to become a god again? There would be nothing in it for them, they weren't like best buddies ;) |
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3567 Posts |
Posted - 22 Feb 2010 : 16:26:58
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quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
And... Karsus can't be brought back since he's a dead god. If they figure out how to bring him back, then they can skip the Karsus step and bring Mystra back directly.
And if Karsus was brought back...he might see that as accomplishing his goal, and then why would he need Mystra? |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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Noxica
Acolyte
23 Posts |
Posted - 28 Feb 2010 : 07:14:43
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| He is not a deity, I love Karsus and think he was very talented but the fact that he is now dead and gone makes him all that more interesting. We all wish we could hear his opinion on whats happening in the realms now, namely what his feelings would be on the Shade city that recently appeared. |
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sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
Posted - 28 Feb 2010 : 16:49:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
And... Karsus can't be brought back since he's a dead god. If they figure out how to bring him back, then they can skip the Karsus step and bring Mystra back directly.
ummm... not quite true.
to bring back a dead god requires a ritual requiring something of theirs while they were mortal or had in their possession.
Or if they were like Helm and put his life force into an item, bring his life force to where his/her body lies....
well this is as much as I udnerstood it |
why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power
My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234 |
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Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
Posted - 04 Apr 2010 : 21:04:54
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Okay... I've recently learned some intriguing things about these two (and Halaster)... and this seems to be as good a scroll as any to resurrect for them. The following is compiled from a recent exchange between myself and The Hooded One (THO) in Ed's Questions 2010 scroll, and I thought that other scribes with better access to the older lore than I currently possess might be able to make something of this:
quote:
Originally posted by Jakk
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by createvmind
Which leads to wonder if any of Mystryl's Chosen still live pre-spellplague?
The Lady Hooded One, ever the mistress of mysteries, once told us re: the fate of some of Mystryl's Chosen:-
" ... you tread into darkly perilous ground, approaching (gasp) a secret of the Realms that has been sitting in plain sight for lo these many years, just waiting for a brilliant scribe to pounce upon.
Heh-heh. Which is a grand way of saying Ed won't answer you directly. You'll have to wait (for some time) for a rather more public answer.
Heh heh heh.
love,
THO"
This post immediately grabbed my attention. Upon reading this for the third time, I was struck by a possibility... or three. (1) Halaster (we know what happened to Sammaster, and now that I see the names in print so close together, I'm struck by their similarity, but that's another matter...) -- maybe, as one of Mystryl's Chosen, his madness was induced by the death of his goddess in the Year of Sundered Webs. (2) Larloch - the big question here being, did he become a lich in order to avoid Halaster's madness, or did he lose his status as a Chosen upon becoming a lich earlier? (3) Ioulaum - this one's wide open.
quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
Heh. Heh. Heh. NDAs are frustrating things from the inside, too. As it happens, I know far more than I can tell.
As for Ed, he knows LIBRARIES full of lore he can't tell. Imagine HIS frustration.
I wonder if he'll be able to cajole a loosening of NDAs at GenCon this year, to let slip a few hints and whispers...
love,
THO
quote:
Originally posted by Jakk
Re: THO's response: I'll take the staccato chuckle to indicate confirmation on three counts, thank you. No more need be said (or, likely, can be at this point... hopefully this is not a permanent state, however).
Edit: I share your hope for a loosening of NDAs... particularly around the Cormyr Lineage and, now, this great secret sitting in plain sight... I *do* wish I had my full lore library accessible to me at this moment... 
Can Ed say approximately how *much* time we'll have to wait? Or is this dependent on publisher plans unconfirmed (or even unmade) at this point?
quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
Jakk,
Yes, I believe you've interpreted my chuckles correctly. 
And the NDA loosening depends on plans not yet finalized, and convincing arguments not yet put.
soft warm love,
THO
quote:
Originally posted by Jakk
Thank you for all of that, milady... particularly the soft warm love, digital though it may be.
One last question on these matters, one for which I don't expect a direct answer (as I suspect NDAs will make one impossible anyway): to expand on my previous musings, here's what I think happened: Ioulaum saw the Fall coming (and survived the death of Mystryl by his transformation into his current form), Larloch survived Mystryl's death due to his transformation to a lich (which may or may not have been his plan), and Halaster went mad due to the death of his goddess. Just wink if I'm on the right track with this.
My question is a simple one: Is this the entirety of the "secret of the Realms that has been sitting in plain sight for lo these many years, just waiting for a brilliant scribe to pounce upon"... or is there more to it?
A second question comes to mind as well... if there is more to it, where in published material do we look for the rest of it? Mention of a title or titles is sufficient; I don't expect all of my detective work to be done for me, but it was interesting to go back over the old lore and track down the Spellplague predictors.
quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
Heh. Ed says I'm not allowed to wink, and he doesn't think I could manage two-thirds of a wink anyway.
And no, this matter is NOT that secret that's been sitting in plain sight.
Bwoohahahahaha, and so forth. 
love,
THO
quote:
Originally posted by Jakk
OOOH! I think I have it! (And it took about ten minutes for this page to load, so my spontaneity is somewhat manufactured...)
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
And here's one of the Ed tidbits... I particularly like this one because not only was it something that just randomly occurred to me one day, but because it's also an interesting angle:
[quote]To Wooly Rupert: when you post sentences like this one: “And though I can't think of any evidence to support it, it's not impossible that part of what Larloch is doing is containing something...” be aware that you are (ahem) VERY perceptive.
So... does this comment have anything to do with my previous speculation, or am I chasing wild geese again?
Edit: Apparently it's the wild geese, given your recent post; danged long wait times... hrmm... two-thirds of a wink... now I just have to puzzle out which two-thirds... This is fun... and I think I've figured out which two-thirds, but I'm not going to put forth any further speculation. Meh, who am I kidding... 
Addendum: Actually, it should be fairly obvious to anyone who has the lore and does some research (like myself) or who knows the lore (like I used to, when I had time to read everything a dozen times over)... Larloch was transformed due to his own contingencies when the Weave failed with the Fall of Karsus, and so it must be my speculations on Halaster and Ioulaum that are correct.
<snip>
Edit: removed off-topic trailer. Edit: 17 April: I'm still puzzling over this one, including the Larloch "containment" idea and the secret in plain sight...  I need my older (pre-3E) lore... <sigh> 
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Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
Edited by - Jakk on 17 Apr 2010 17:10:03 |
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Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
Posted - 17 Apr 2010 : 17:21:54
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Topic-restoring summary:
We know the fate of Ioulaum (pre-Spellplague, at least) thanks to LEoF (pp101-102). Exactly what Ioulaum's goals are, however, is as mysterious a topic as Larloch's goals. Ioulaum is still not nearly as interesting a character to me as Larloch and Halaster... this probably has something to do with the proximity of the latter two to Waterdeep.
Here's a thought regarding Larloch and Halaster in post-Spellplague canon:
What if, now that the Spellplague has disrupted Larloch's portal network, his current (post-1385) project is the recovery of Halaster's soul shards?
What does the thought of Larloch being the one to reassemble Halaster's soul do for your nightmares? |
Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
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Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
Posted - 03 May 2010 : 22:11:56
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| Heh... apparently I scared my fellow scribes into silence on this one... as I said before, it's a good thing Halaster's still alive in my Realms... |
Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
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Cleric Generic
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
565 Posts |
Posted - 03 May 2010 : 23:39:34
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lol, it is a nifty idea...
I could see Larloch restoring Halaster to life (or undeath), if not restoring his sanity, and giving him back the keys to Undermountain in return for some undisclosed and typically far reaching service. He's been known to deal with Szaz Tam on various occasions, and Halaster is, arguably, a less disruptive individual to deal with (less interested in world domination that messing with adventurers i nhis mega-dungeon). |
Cedric! The Cleric Generic and Master of Disguise!
ALL HAIL LORD KARSUS!!!
Vast Realmslore Archive: Get in here and download everything! http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/archfr/rl
2e Realms book PDFs; grab em! - http://poleandrope.blogspot.com/2010/07/working-around-purge.html |
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Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
Posted - 04 May 2010 : 00:31:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Cleric Generic
lol, it is a nifty idea...
I could see Larloch restoring Halaster to life (or undeath), if not restoring his sanity, and giving him back the keys to Undermountain in return for some undisclosed and typically far reaching service. He's been known to deal with Szaz Tam on various occasions, and Halaster is, arguably, a less disruptive individual to deal with (less interested in world domination that messing with adventurers i nhis mega-dungeon).
Hrm... I think I commented on this in my earlier post, but do you suppose that "far reaching service" you mention could be the restoration of Faerun's portal network? Larloch seems to have some particular interest in this project, and we know that Halaster is the master portal wizard... |
Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
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Cleric Generic
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
565 Posts |
Posted - 04 May 2010 : 00:58:17
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Indeed!
Halaster already had those portals that could strip users of magic items and divert them from one destination to another depending on certain criteria. The fact that his soul had been blown to bits by whatever he was clowning around with down there would also also presumably prove interesting to a scholar such as Larloch, especially if he could work out how to reassemble said soul and ask questions about the experience... |
Cedric! The Cleric Generic and Master of Disguise!
ALL HAIL LORD KARSUS!!!
Vast Realmslore Archive: Get in here and download everything! http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/archfr/rl
2e Realms book PDFs; grab em! - http://poleandrope.blogspot.com/2010/07/working-around-purge.html |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31772 Posts |
Posted - 04 May 2010 : 01:14:06
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quote:
Originally posted by Cleric Generic
lol, it is a nifty idea...
I could see Larloch restoring Halaster to life (or undeath), if not restoring his sanity, and giving him back the keys to Undermountain in return for some undisclosed and typically far reaching service. He's been known to deal with Szaz Tam on various occasions, and Halaster is, arguably, a less disruptive individual to deal with (less interested in world domination that messing with adventurers i nhis mega-dungeon).
Honestly, as much as I find it a disappointing notion, I don't believe we'll see Halaster again. It does seem like 4e FR is particularly geared toward introducing new elements, and mostly at the expense of removing the more established "mainstays" of the previous editions of the Realms. Halaster's demise may be an example of this. And thus, a new and virtually unknown NPC may eventually be set up to take his place through the 4e FR material. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36803 Posts |
Posted - 04 May 2010 : 03:05:10
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Cleric Generic
lol, it is a nifty idea...
I could see Larloch restoring Halaster to life (or undeath), if not restoring his sanity, and giving him back the keys to Undermountain in return for some undisclosed and typically far reaching service. He's been known to deal with Szaz Tam on various occasions, and Halaster is, arguably, a less disruptive individual to deal with (less interested in world domination that messing with adventurers i nhis mega-dungeon).
Honestly, as much as I find it a disappointing notion, I don't believe we'll see Halaster again. It does seem like 4e FR is particularly geared toward introducing new elements, and mostly at the expense of removing the more established "mainstays" of the previous editions of the Realms. Halaster's demise may be an example of this. And thus, a new and virtually unknown NPC may eventually be set up to take his place through the 4e FR material.
With the fact that people are now living in Undermountain, I don't forsee it falling under the control of any one mage -- whether Manshoon, one of the Heirs, or a newcomer.
Personally, I still favor the idea of Manshoon collecting the pieces of Hally's soul, and inadvertently becoming some sort of gestalt of the two mages. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31772 Posts |
Posted - 04 May 2010 : 04:03:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Personally, I still favor the idea of Manshoon collecting the pieces of Hally's soul, and inadvertently becoming some sort of gestalt of the two mages.
Which remains a curious possibility. After all, Ed said that most of the Manshoon clones tend to follow the original Manshoon's example of having extensive fall-back plans and caches and strategies set in motion. Perhaps the Manshoon clone with Halaster had planned contingencies in place throughout Undermountain, should Halaster ever die or be destroyed. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 04 May 2010 04:05:10 |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3287 Posts |
Posted - 04 May 2010 : 04:47:33
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Well people are living in the First level, it's call Downshadow.
I do remember that Halaster was in possession of Frostrune's Phylactery(sp) at the end of Blackstaff.
So I would speculate that maybe Frostrune has taken his own little (or not so little) area in Undermountain over.
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"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36803 Posts |
Posted - 04 May 2010 : 05:18:06
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quote:
Originally posted by Brimstone
Well people are living in the First level, it's call Downshadow.
I do remember that Halaster was in possession of Frostrune's Phylactery(sp) at the end of Blackstaff.
So I would speculate that maybe Frostrune has taken his own little (or not so little) area in Undermountain over.
If he still exists and is capable of such... He seemed rather concerned about Halaster having his phylactery, so I'm thinking that Priamon has either been destroyed, or that Halaster did something to render him incapable of taking a new body. Hally has a proven track record of being an evil git, so I'm thinking he would have done something like linked Priamon's consciousness to a portal or a scrying device, and left him unable to do anything other than observe. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Topic |
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Larloch and Ioulaum?
