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Rachan
Acolyte
Canada
15 Posts |
 Posted - 17 Jan 2010 : 21:38:51
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Let's say someone wanted to break Cyric out from his imprisonment is the Supreme Throne ... how would you go about it?
I'm posting in this forum as opposed to some of the others because I'm looking for canonized solutions -- artifacts, old legends, previous attempts, things like that. This is part of my time-travel campaign (see my other topic, Harptos and Augathra), so I'm thinking of maybe planting a secret planar trap door before the Supreme Throne was sealed off. And this is all for later publication, so I'd rather not contradict existing canon.
Thanks again!
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Rachan
Acolyte
Canada
15 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jan 2010 : 22:19:37
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Thinking better of it, that was the question to ask. The question I should have asked is:
If the bad guys trying to free Cyric did find a way to travel back in time and install said trap door, would that door (or the activation thereof) violate existing canon?
IF I'm in the clear, THEN are there any artifacts/rituals already out there that would be appropriate? |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36996 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jan 2010 : 22:50:34
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If there was a trap door, Cyric would have used it immediately and not been imprisoned -- which would pretty much invalidate canon.
Besides, how is a mortal bit of sneakiness going to overcome multiple divinities determined to imprison someone known to be sneaky? |
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Rachan
Acolyte
Canada
15 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jan 2010 : 03:37:52
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That's why the time-travel angle is so important. Cyricists in the 4e present travel back to before Cyric's imprisonment, lay the groundwork for he portal in secrecy, then come back to the present(ish) to activate it. Finding the key to activate it is a completely different part of the story, but don't worry, I got that all worked out -- yes, with an actual piece of canonized history from the other side of the Realms.
As far as the secrecy surrounding this plot goes, that's covered too. I'm just wondering about the actual technical pitfalls of creating a doorway through a plane that has been sealed to specifically resist such doorways. Hypothetically, if you were a Cyricist trying to free your god, and you had a time machine and all the knowledge of Oghma at your fingertips, what would you do? |
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Rachan
Acolyte
Canada
15 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jan 2010 : 03:44:11
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Whoops ... Double post.
But to answer your question, Cyric himself was mortal once before he duped the Big Three into giving him their hats.
Besides, I never said it was a mortal plot ... |
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sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jan 2010 : 03:57:34
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| well if you were to have cyricians create a trap door, then one would have to go back in time to make the death of Helm and mystra a lie.... |
why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power
My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234 |
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Rachan
Acolyte
Canada
15 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jan 2010 : 04:29:11
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| Not necessarily. The door would be built, but remain locked until opened from the outside sometime after 1479, the "present" year in 4e. Nothing that's already published would have to change, save for that one little dormant portal nobody knew about. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36996 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jan 2010 : 05:08:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Rachan
Whoops ... Double post.
But to answer your question, Cyric himself was mortal once before he duped the Big Three into giving him their hats.
Besides, I never said it was a mortal plot ...
He didn't dupe anyone. He killed two and was given the power of another. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36996 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jan 2010 : 05:12:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Rachan
Not necessarily. The door would be built, but remain locked until opened from the outside sometime after 1479, the "present" year in 4e. Nothing that's already published would have to change, save for that one little dormant portal nobody knew about.
...That no one knew about, that deities could not detect, and that could circumvent deific magic.
If it was that easy, someone would have freed Kezef before Cyric did. I'm sorry, but I don't see any logical way to have mortal magic circumvent deific magic.
Of course, if they could go back in time to build that trap door... Wouldn't warning Cyric, and/or somehow preventing his imprisonment, be easier? |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Rachan
Acolyte
Canada
15 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jan 2010 : 05:28:06
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Look, guys, I don't mean to be rude, but I'm not trying to decide if my story idea is plausible based on the one solitary thread of information I've shared about it. I'm trying to find out if anyone has already written about an artifact or ritual I could use to turn a villainous plot into a dice-rolling encounter. Is there something out there already that can punch a hole in a deific mythal, or do I get to make it up myself?
I've got seven or eight layers of puppetteering and duplicity already worked out, stretching as far back as the Dawn Age, and even into the Dark Sun and Spelljammer settings. So can anyone give me a yes-or-no on this, or do I have to read every FR novel myself? |
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Eremite
Learned Scribe
Singapore
182 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jan 2010 : 05:52:20
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Rachan,
There's an interesting campaign at obsidianportal.com called Mornskeep. The DM of that campaign has some interesting ideas which, IIRC, revolve around bullywugs and their command of elemental magic as a way of freeing him.
Here are three ideas of mine:
1. If Pandorym was released and finished off Toril's pantheon then maybe Ao would free Cyric simply because he had run out of deities.
2. The energies of the Far Realm based, as they are, on unreality, might be sufficiently different and powerful enough to punch a hole in the prison. Perhaps the aboleth know something that others do not know?
3. Imagine a divine machine that incorporates a lance of energy (sorry for any similarities to the Death Star) but the machine needs ot be powered by souls. The Cyricists found this machine in some ancient ruin on the Shadowfell and they also found various rituals that would allow the souls of the departed to be diverted from the Shadowfell to this machine instead. The Cyricists cast these rituals in an area that is unstable because the forthcoming war that they have also caused will ensure numerous deaths and that means more souls to feed the machine and, in due course, the lance will pierce Cyric's prison and free him.
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Cleric Generic
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
565 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jan 2010 : 16:51:25
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| Perhapse you could have someone quietly find out and summon up an obscure primordial from Leerakond to bust him out? A powerful stealthy themed primordial could believably be able to break/sneak Cyric out under the command of summoning/controlling powerful mortals and also play along for the gratifying destruction releasing Cyric on his kin will inevitably cause. |
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Noxica
Acolyte
23 Posts |
Posted - 16 Feb 2010 : 15:19:41
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I think the point wooly is trying to make is, if your trying to keep to Canon you would be breaking it by going back in time in the first place, as mystra governs all time travel via magic or otherwise and all time travel spells must be agreed to by her (and now shes dead), Also tricking the current deities with a trap door devised by mortal hands using spells from a dead goddess does not seem plausible.
That said, it is your story and as a DM you can break Canon however you want, just don't expect this thread to create a canon story or any kind of rationalization when it is quite impossible!
Hope it works out! |
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Rachan
Acolyte
Canada
15 Posts |
Posted - 16 Feb 2010 : 22:27:44
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I don't want to give away too much of my scheme, as this is for publication. I realize, though, if I'm going to get any serious help here, I need to sound credible as a storyteller ... and a synopsis like "I'M A SHOOT A LAZER THROUGH THE SPACE-WALL!!" doesn't help my cause any.
So without giving away any specifics, I'll let you know I've combed extensively through several 2e, 3e and 4e sourcebooks. Almost everything I've put together so far has come DIRECTLY out of the canon I've read, and believe it or not, buried somewhere in all those books, the designers have already revealed exactly how to pull this off. Whether they're aware of this or not is anybody's guess. One thing I've always been good at, though, is connecting other people's dots.
The story involves one evil organization's plan to free Cyric using long-forgotten magics from an ancient empire. There's a bit of relic hunting in the early part of the story. The time travel bit is actually a serendipitous accident, which simply serves to aid them in learning what they need to know. All the actioning of the plan takes place in the 4e present, behind the scenes, around 1479 DR.
Essentially, as the PCs are out doing their "hero thing," they gradually begin to uncover clues pointing to some kind of conspiracy. Several organizations are at work, but the PCs aren't sure yet who's working with who, who's against who, or what they're actually trying to accomplish. What they do realize is that the bad guys are spending a LOT of resources to achieve their goal, so it would probably be BAD if they succeeded. By making allies with/extracting information from members of some of these organizations, the PCs get on the trail of the Big Shiny McGuffin and pinpoint its location. Thus begins the relic-hunting race (think "Raiders Of The Lost Arc," only with four different groups of Nazis, and they're all on different teams), which I'm hoping will end like so:
Rogue: "This must be what they're looking for."
Fighter: "What is it?"
Cleric: "I dunno. Wizard?"
Wizard: "No idea."
Rogue: "Oh crap, guys! I think I turned it on!"
By this point the PCs think they know WHAT everyone is after, but they don't know WHY or, specifically, WHO. So that's the next chapter, figuring out the Why and Who and stopping it all. The PCs are never in control of their time-jumping, although they do get dragged through two other periods of Faerun's history.
In the middle period (the second part of the game), the party learns exactly why time travel is bad. My Obiwan Kenobis make their appearances (hence why I was asking about canon on Harptos and Augathra in another thread), and reveal what might happen if time is not put back to normal. The resulting cataclysm would make the Spellplague look like a case of the sniffles. When you consider that time is singularly congruous not only with the FR cosmology, but also Dark Sun, Dragonlance, Greyhawk, every D&D homebrew world, etc., etc., it doesn't sound like much of a stretch. There's already a precedent for this sort of campaign linking in the Spelljamming ships of ancient Netheril, the origins of Mulhorand and Unther, the Orcgate Wars, and the existence of Sigil.
In the most ancient period (the last part of the game), the party encounters one of their recurring villains, who has infiltrated the gummint of another lost empire. At this point the Who should be apparent, and if the PCs consider his associations for a moment, the Why becomes obvious as well. Hilarity ensues as the Agent's political machinations once again threaten natural time.
Eventually, it's back to the "present" to actually stop Cyric's release. Depending on how the last chapter played out, they might have already accomplished that, or they might have destroyed the world. That's up to the players to decide. OR OR OR the whole thing might be just another evil mastermind's insidious plot that, like so many other plots, is doomed to fail. It never WAS possible, but the organization, in their hubris and unchecked ambition, believed it was ... wizards concoct harebrained schemes and get themselves blown up all the time! IF he's released, we move to the Epic tier, where we find out which other gods/demons/primordials were sponsoring the whole effort in the first place -- but that's a story for another day.
So the adventure's not actually about freeing Cyric. That element is simply a plot device to drive a very intrigue-heavy campaign with very strong themes of fatalism, determinism, exploration and divine strife. Obviously, I'm going to wreck canon. But I want to wreck it in such a way that I can put it back together before the closing credits roll. That means I need to start with what's already out there, disassemble it within the story, and rebuild it to a close-enough approximation of the original -- there's actually a surprising amount of leeway to adapt what's already been written. My struggle is the suspension of disbelief -- I want to write this in a way that fans will get to the end and go, "Okay, that makes sense now."
A couple caveats to Noxica's post, before I go:
When the Weave first collapsed, denizens of the Realms though all magic was lost forever. They were wrong. The Weave naturally re-stabilized, and there's no reason I'm aware of that time magic wouldn't follow suit. In fact, there are monster and PC powers in the 4e Monster Manual and 4e Player's Handbook II that do manipulate time. Core has to be taken as part of setting canon.
Mortals trick gods all the time. Real-world mythology is replete with these stories, as is D&D mythology. We'd lose a lot of fun out of the game if mortals couldn't aspire to divinity, and to to that, you gotta beat them somehow ... a straight fight isn't always the way, and it certainly wouldn't fit your character concept if you're playing a rogue trying to become the new Brandobaris! |
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Noxica
Acolyte
23 Posts |
Posted - 17 Feb 2010 : 02:14:54
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Can you give a few examples of when Mortals outsmarted divine beings without the assistance of other divine beings? (Ruling out scenarios like the Cyrinshad and Velsharoon)
I would be interested to see when this has ever happened in Canon except maybe during the Times of Trouble! Could give me a new perspective on deities for the realms! |
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Rachan
Acolyte
Canada
15 Posts |
Posted - 17 Feb 2010 : 03:01:34
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| I didn't say it had to be without the assistance of other divine beings.... Regardless, that's a moot issue. The trap-door angle was replaced weeks ago. |
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Rachan
Acolyte
Canada
15 Posts |
Posted - 17 Feb 2010 : 04:02:29
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ANYWHO ... next question.
I'm also looking for some game-mechanic information of how to handle spellcasting pre-339 DR. This was before Karsus' Folly and Mystra's Ban. Apparently magic was a lot easier to toss around back then. Link to the FR Wiki entry on "Mystra's Ban" -->
http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Mystra%27s_Ban
I haven't YET been able to get my hands on the source this entry cites, Netheril: Empire of Magic. Didn't seem relevant last time I went shopping, since my campaign has little to do with Netheril. How would you mitigate EVERY class and commoner being able to cast magic? |
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sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
Posted - 17 Feb 2010 : 04:05:23
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http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dnd/downloads
lucky for you, It can be downloaded here for free.
Bards didnt have spells. nor rangers or paladins.
only druids, clerics, wizards,
if yoiu want to use 3.5 rules, warmages, duskblades, hexblades, warlocks, and etc |
why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power
My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234 |
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Rachan
Acolyte
Canada
15 Posts |
Posted - 17 Feb 2010 : 04:09:38
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You are the coolest! Thanks!
I'm using 4e, actually, but I'll figure something out. Once I understand the concept, it should be pretty easy to transfer to the new system. |
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Milith holder of HB8
Seeker
USA
63 Posts |
Posted - 02 Apr 2010 : 19:23:02
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I do believe there was a mention in the 4e FR Guide about an epic level item is one of the many keys needed to open Cyric's cage. I suppose you could have the players track them down, even going back in time to see where they were hidden by the gods so you could find them in the future.
You might even go back in the past to ancient Netheril to learn about ancient magic that might be useful in freeing him or undoing a binding. |
Hey, babe, see my shiny teeth as I smile my very best wolf smile- Ed Greenwood. |
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Freeing Cyric
