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WarlockII
Seeker
50 Posts |
 Posted - 15 Jan 2010 : 22:47:20
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So, Timetraveling is imposibly complicated, the butterfly effect simply has far too much effect, and I'll need to make a diffinitive decision on determinism or free-will.
That's not too appealing as a GM.
But, there are several Temples of Time out there somewhere, dedicated to amaunator. So I very much would like to know where they are exactly and any history they have. Information on this is hard to come by for some reason.
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jan 2010 : 23:28:38
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I should point out that the Faerūnian pantheon does not have a specific deity of time any more. Mystryl was the Netherese deity of time, even though Amaunator incorrectly believed he was actually the deity of time [see Amaunator's entry in F&A].
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WarlockII
Seeker
50 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jan 2010 : 01:36:44
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Grumbar and Labelas Enoreth, do however have time.
I really just wanna know, what the location of these Time Gates are. So far I only know about 1
The Gate inside the Vulcano south of Cederspoke, mt. andrus
There is one somewhere in Novularond, (that's atleast somewhat specific)
There is one somewhere in the spine of the world
And there is one somewhere in the moonshae islands
All supposedly dedicated to Mystyl. I would love a more specific location on the last 3, what part of the mountain/glacier range it's in, what island it is on. And more importantly, what story do these gates have?
When were they built????
The last part is very important plotwise. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jan 2010 : 03:02:36
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Chronos is [was] an alias of Labelas.
Interestingly, I've also thought about the possibility that the Time portfolio may have ended up in the hands of Labelas...
To which, Eric added:- "...depending on whether you see the human kingdom of Orva being a Netherese survivor state."
Orva's status as a human kingdom is probable [see the 'Orva' details in the second paragraph of Labelas's entry], according to Eric, who said:- "I add the [probable] qualifier because I had to insert a little bit of Realmslore in Demihuman Deities in the write-up of Labelas Enoreth. (Look at the alias list.) This was to patch up the lack of a time portfolio among any human Realms god and because the only gods left to detail at the time were nonhuman gods.
--Eric" |
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WarlockII
Seeker
50 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jan 2010 : 08:11:03
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I don't follow... =p
is there a time gate in Orva? or the vast swamp were it once was?
wiki: Chronos was an ancient deity, the god of time, ironically, lost to the ages. Religious texts and ancient histories speak of him in passing. He was known to be worshiped by the nation of Orva but it is unknown how he died. Shrines of Chronos still hold power. Offerings will crumble to dust in mere seconds and in return, the offerer may recieve a vision of the past or the future.
Statues of Chronos depict him as a tall man in a hooded robe with feathered wings, holding a scythe and an hourglass.
and he had the time portfolio at the time
still any ideas on specific locations of the time gates?
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WarlockII
Seeker
50 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jan 2010 : 08:13:17
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| oh and where do I find Labelas's entry? |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jan 2010 : 11:18:46
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quote:
Originally posted by WarlockII
oh and where do I find Labelas's entry?
Demihuman Deities. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jan 2010 : 14:09:10
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quote:
Originally posted by WarlockII
I don't follow... =p
Demihuman Deities says:- "Likewise, a long forgotten-aspect of Labelas, known as Chronos, Karonis, or Kronus, was worshipped centuries ago in the tiny realm of Orva, now sunk beneath the waters of the Vast Swamp of eastern Cormyr." |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Gray Richardson
Master of Realmslore
USA
1291 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jan 2010 : 22:05:26
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Now that Mystra is dead, and Amaunator is back, it could be that Amaunator now claims the portfolio of Time. There would be no one around to contradict him if he chose to. As the god of days, he could certainly make a case for control of Time, as the primary regulator and measure by which time is counted and its passage marked.
Although, on second thought, Selūne could perhaps make a contending claim to the Time portfolio, as people also mark time by the moon. Selūne was Mystryl's mother and as such might have reclaimed some of her portfolios and duties upon Mystra's death. |
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Victor_ograygor
Master of Realmslore
Denmark
1075 Posts |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jan 2010 : 00:16:42
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quote:
Originally posted by Gray Richardson
Now that Mystra is dead, and Amaunator is back, it could be that Amaunator now claims the portfolio of Time. There would be no one around to contradict him if he chose to. As the god of days, he could certainly make a case for control of Time, as the primary regulator and measure by which time is counted and its passage marked.
Interestingly, as I've speculated in the past, perhaps the Time porfolio fell into the hands of Jergal in the pre-Spellplague Realms. After his demotion to "Exarch" status though, in the 4e Realms, perhaps the Time portfolio once again came up for grabs.
I'm not sure about Amaunator claiming it though. Considering his now "ancient" mistake that led him to assume he held the portfolio in the first place, I think it's the kind of "divine jest" he'd be unable to fully live down.
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WarlockII
Seeker
50 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jan 2010 : 05:38:58
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| so, I take it the lack of answers to my primary question means.... Noone really knows where those time gates really are? |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
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Joran Nobleheart
Senior Scribe
USA
495 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jan 2010 : 07:06:40
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This may have already been covered, but I think I remember there being a temporal gate mentioned in the beginning of Cormanthyr: Empire of the Elves. Sadly, my books are away from me right now and I can't remember any of the information that the book gives. I do seem to recall a dragon being the guardian of it, or making a lair in the cave where it is, though. I hope that helps some if my memory is recalling this properly. Best of luck in your game!  |
Paladinic Ethos
Saint Joran Nobleheart |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jan 2010 : 08:02:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Joran Nobleheart
This may have already been covered, but I think I remember there being a temporal gate mentioned in the beginning of Cormanthyr: Empire of the Elves.
There's a few paragraphs re: time gates on pg. 6. But they're largely only brief paragraphs describing the five gates for use in time-travelling campaigns using the material in Cormanthyr.
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Joran Nobleheart
Senior Scribe
USA
495 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jan 2010 : 12:24:19
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Thank you, Sage. I really just couldn't remember as it's been so long since I last read Cormanthyr. Reading this makes me want to get it back out and read it again. Ah, the wonders of classic Forgotten Realms books and the memories we have from them.  |
Paladinic Ethos
Saint Joran Nobleheart |
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Gray Richardson
Master of Realmslore
USA
1291 Posts |
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WarlockII
Seeker
50 Posts |
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jan 2010 : 18:03:32
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| I see the uncertainty of who holds dominion over time as an excellent opportunity for any DM to put his own spin on it - which can lead to a great epic campaign arc, where the PCs visit the Fall of Netheril, the Time of Troubles and the Spellplague, among other events. Simply flipping through the Grand History of the Realms will allow you to find any point in time worth visiting. |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
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WarlockII
Seeker
50 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jan 2010 : 17:10:11
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quote:
Originally posted by Alisttair
I see the uncertainty of who holds dominion over time as an excellent opportunity for any DM to put his own spin on it - which can lead to a great epic campaign arc, where the PCs visit the Fall of Netheril, the Time of Troubles and the Spellplague, among other events. Simply flipping through the Grand History of the Realms will allow you to find any point in time worth visiting.
oh I know that very well. But as everyone knows, players will mess things up, and may very well need all 4 time gates during the campaign.
and yes I think they just may somehow blow the vulcano gate up :P. Besides for the netheril time, the gate at the spine of the world seems to be their handywork. |
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Milith holder of HB8
Seeker
USA
63 Posts |
Posted - 02 Apr 2010 : 19:07:11
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quote:
Originally posted by Gray Richardson
Now that Mystra is dead, and Amaunator is back, it could be that Amaunator now claims the portfolio of Time. There would be no one around to contradict him if he chose to. As the god of days, he could certainly make a case for control of Time, as the primary regulator and measure by which time is counted and its passage marked.
Although, on second thought, Selūne could perhaps make a contending claim to the Time portfolio, as people also mark time by the moon. Selūne was Mystryl's mother and as such might have reclaimed some of her portfolios and duties upon Mystra's death.
While true, I think Amaunator probably has a stronger claim to it, as Netheril: Empire of Magic explains:
Since they are time travelers,
Mystryl is willing to provide spells to them (since
time travelers are technically part of her portfolio).
Amaunator would be another likely candidate, since he
technically has control of time as well.
That would see to imply to me that Amaunator would be the successful heir to the power instead of Selune. I also believe the 4e FR guid indicates him to be the 'Keeper of Time', not that it really seems all that important as far as worshipers go. It's also worth noting that if we were to consider who'd be the best canidate, it would probably be the guy with strict rules and regulations, one known for his strict sense of being on time.
EDIT: Time travel, at least during the Mystra/Midnight age, is strictly controlled by the goddess of magic in the sense that the characters cannot alter time. In fact, the spell used to go back in time specifically forbids it and doesn't allow characters to bring any sort of item that didn't exist in the past with them. In addition, they can only visit one year one time. From beginning to end. No going back. |
Hey, babe, see my shiny teeth as I smile my very best wolf smile- Ed Greenwood. |
Edited by - Milith holder of HB8 on 02 Apr 2010 19:09:43 |
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3243 Posts |
Posted - 02 Apr 2010 : 19:10:48
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Just posted this on another thread:
From the Chronomancy web enhancement (available here):
quote:
Toril has many powerful forces devoted to keeping its history intact. Elminster, Khelben Arunsun, the Seven Sisters, and many other powerful wizards have been granted certain undefined powers from Mystra, goddess of magic, to prevent all chronomantic spells from working in their vicinities. Supernatural or priestly agents of Deneir and Oghma (Toril's gods of history, so to speak) are believed able to follow a chronomancer's trail and undo any damage he has done. Finally, a chronomancer who seriously disrupts history is likely to encounter an avatar of the most directly concerned deity, a meeting which will likely result in the abrupt termination of that chronomancer's life.
Other than this, chronomancers are known to make limited, low-key trips through time in Faerun, Kara-Tur, Zakhara, and Maztica. Native chronomancers are usually devout followers of both a deity of magic (e.g., Mystra) and a deity of time or history (e.g., Deneir or Oghma), serving as historians and information collectors. Elven chronomancers of Labelas Enoreth are possible. Shou Lung, in Kara-Tur, might have a secret, officially approved group of chronomancers, probably Historians, working for the Emperor. Ancient empires such as Netheril, Raurin, Narfell, Raumathar, and Cormanthyr might have known of chronomancy or time travel, though this did not prevent their fall; these empires can be reached only through vortices or by using powerful magical devices or artifacts. Most wizards here refer to Temporal Prime as the Plane or Demiplane of Time.
Aside from human, half-elven, and elven chronomancers, rumors pass that a few hare and crane hengeyokai from Shou Lung have gained chronomancer abilities of up to the 9th level of ability. Their time travels seem motivated solely for either escaping current troubles (for hare hengeyokai) or official historical studies (for crane hengeyokai).
Possible psionic time travelers from Toril could include couatl, shedu, and titans, as well as humans and demihumans.
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I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
Edited by - Ashe Ravenheart on 02 Apr 2010 19:11:08 |
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 06 May 2010 : 15:13:06
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| My fellow scribes, would you agree that somewhere within Karse would be an excellent location to put a Time Portal leading to the year of the Fall of Netheril?? I also believe that there is no deity of Time because that portfolio remained with Karsus (which will return along with him . |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 07 May 2010 : 00:40:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Alisttair
My fellow scribes, would you agree that somewhere within Karse would be an excellent location to put a Time Portal leading to the year of the Fall of Netheril?? I also believe that there is no deity of Time because that portfolio remained with Karsus (which will return along with him .
The portfolio couldn't have remained with him. When he died, it was free to a good home -- just like magic. When Mystra was born, she grabbed magic, and it's only logical to assume she grabbed it back.
I think the reason it's not listed for anyone is that it's just not something notable enough to pay attention to. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 07 May 2010 : 01:12:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I think the reason it's not listed for anyone is that it's just not something notable enough to pay attention to.
I'm still content to believe much of what Eric and I discussed about the Time portfolio back in '06. That the Time portfolio remained free largely because, at the time [pun intended, I suppose], it wasn't feasible to be definitive about it, as some future project [nothing proposed at that point in '06] might have called for it. [Or, in other words, maybe Eric wanted to leave room for further development.] |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Edited by - The Sage on 07 May 2010 01:13:54 |
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 07 May 2010 : 12:58:27
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| If it is free then Karsus could snatch it as is his right upon his return |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
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Sill Alias
Senior Scribe
Kazakhstan
588 Posts |
Posted - 08 May 2010 : 07:35:22
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| I see as more fitting candidate Kelemvor, with his discipline and law abiding (too bad Helm died). But he is relatively young. |
You can hear many tales from many mouths. The most difficult is to know which of them are not lies. - Sill Alias
"May your harp be unstrung, your dreams die and all your songs be unsung." - curse of the harper, The Code of the Harpers 2 ed.
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creyzi4zb12
Learned Scribe
Philippines
129 Posts |
Posted - 24 Feb 2011 : 18:06:06
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quote:
Originally posted by Alisttair
If it is free then Karsus could snatch it as is his right upon his return
He did cast time travel..In Netheril Trilogy there were two wizards I knew of who casted Time Travel, Karsus and Candlemas. And according to Candlemas, Karsus was able to cast time travel as if he was reading the alphabet.
Actually, Candlemas advise to Karsus in defeating the Phaerrim was time travel, unfortunately Karsus thought: Karsus Avatar > Time Travel....so there, Karsus got what he deserved for being too arrogant. |
orc orc orc orc orc orc orc orc orc orc orc |
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 25 Feb 2011 : 11:48:15
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quote:
Originally posted by creyzi4zb12
quote:
Originally posted by Alisttair
If it is free then Karsus could snatch it as is his right upon his return
He did cast time travel..In Netheril Trilogy there were two wizards I knew of who casted Time Travel, Karsus and Candlemas. And according to Candlemas, Karsus was able to cast time travel as if he was reading the alphabet.
Actually, Candlemas advise to Karsus in defeating the Phaerrim was time travel, unfortunately Karsus thought: Karsus Avatar > Time Travel....so there, Karsus got what he deserved for being too arrogant.
Unless he fooled everyone into believing that, and that in actuality he DID use time travel first to set up his return because he knew the fall of Netheril was inevitable so he had to continue in that time-stream. |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
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creyzi4zb12
Learned Scribe
Philippines
129 Posts |
Posted - 25 Feb 2011 : 13:36:08
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| I've always thought that history and fate could be changed through time travel. From DnD, maybe not Forgotten Realms..let's say, Dragonlance..Raistlin changed his identity, erased the identity of a powerful archmage, changed the world, became an exarch, became a god, did not become a god, ruled the world, and died through time travel. |
orc orc orc orc orc orc orc orc orc orc orc |
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 25 Feb 2011 : 14:31:59
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quote:
Originally posted by creyzi4zb12
I've always thought that history and fate could be changed through time travel. From DnD, maybe not Forgotten Realms..let's say, Dragonlance..Raistlin changed his identity, erased the identity of a powerful archmage, changed the world, became an exarch, became a god, did not become a god, ruled the world, and died through time travel.
You could tie it in to different realities (some of which can be caused by a change in the time stream thus going a different route) - which are effectively different DMs own home FR campaigns as well. |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
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Time travel
