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harpercps
Acolyte
5 Posts |
 Posted - 07 Jan 2010 : 21:15:40
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A long time ago I GMed FR for the avatar series(1st edition) and afterwards Under Mountain Adventures (run as 1st edition and some of my favorite gaming ever). I recently started picking up used v3.0 and v3.5 FR books and much to my surprise Midnight's (and Mystra's) alignment had changed from LN to NG based on her mortal opinion. I had remembered her being nothing like NG but being a perfect mercenary.
I checked my old books (Original Hall of Heroes, Shadowdale, Tantras, and Waterdeep adventures), Midnight's alignment is always LN.
Is there a reason for this change in the Cannon? or was it just a typo going from 1st to 2nd?
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Arion Elenim
Senior Scribe
933 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jan 2010 : 04:57:32
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She gained a great deal of compassion for her fellow man after the Avatar incident, and began to value life much more once she took on the raiment of Mystra.
Now, being "good" caused her a lot of problems later on, so she probably would still be around (canon-wise if not sellplague-wise) had she stayed LN. :) |
My latest Realms-based short story, about a bard, a paladin of Lathander and the letter of the law, Debts Repaid. It takes place before the "shattering" and gives the bard Arion a last gasp before he plunges into the present.http://candlekeep.com/campaign/logs/log-debts.htm |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jan 2010 : 06:03:54
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| I never understood why her alignment was changed. It's been one of the things that's always bothered me. Which is another reason why I kept the old Mystra. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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harpercps
Acolyte
5 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jan 2010 : 13:32:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Arion Elenim
She gained a great deal of compassion for her fellow man after the Avatar incident, and began to value life much more once she took on the raiment of Mystra.
Now, being "good" caused her a lot of problems later on, so she probably would still be around (canon-wise if not sellplague-wise) had she stayed LN. :)
Wow that is that is just plain lame... is this related to non D&D junk like the novels or something? Thanks for the response. |
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harpercps
Acolyte
5 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jan 2010 : 13:37:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
I never understood why her alignment was changed. It's been one of the things that's always bothered me. Which is another reason why I kept the old Mystra.
Midnight seemed perfect for ascending as a mortal ... just plan surprised that becoming a god protecting something of order and balance (the weave) caused her to become pure good. Thanks for the response. Could be some like getting rid of all the summoning and imprisonment spells in the second edition. |
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Neil Bishop
Learned Scribe
Singapore
100 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jan 2010 : 06:07:22
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I've always believed that Mystryl's/Mystra's/Midnight's alignment reflected the need of the Weave at any particular time. She was CN when the Weave was unrestrained and very creative. She was LN when order and restraint had to be brought in after the mess made by Karsus. And she became NG because of the threat posed by Shar and the Shadow Weave and out of the Weave's desire to oppose that largely because Shar's goals are so nihilistic.
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NXB |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jan 2010 : 07:00:10
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I think it partly indicates the difficulty of fitting Mystra into a D&D alignment. The LNity of the previous Mystra was also much unlike that of a mortal, and less central than the alignment of a morally oriented god like Tymora or Bane. Compare this in the Cyclopedia:- "The goddess of magic is a manifestation of the Cosmic Balance, which appears to right great inequalities or going-awry in the magical balance of things."
Obviously, Midnight's ascension wasn't Ed's idea, and his development of the post-Godswar Mystra is one of many cases where he's worked to smooth over and make something positive out of things like Dale Henson's Netheril, Caladnei and the Shadow Weave. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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harpercps
Acolyte
5 Posts |
Posted - 11 Feb 2010 : 11:11:00
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Thank you all.
I thought that Greenwood was the author of the Avatar series (the adventures). But regardless Midnight's alignment in those was very LN.
Then in FR adventures her alignment changes to NG?
Is that the right timeline? Was there any reason for the change besides the whole 2nd edition everyone is good thing?
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
I think it partly indicates the difficulty of fitting Mystra into a D&D alignment. The LNity of the previous Mystra was also much unlike that of a mortal, and less central than the alignment of a morally oriented god like Tymora or Bane. Compare this in the Cyclopedia:- "The goddess of magic is a manifestation of the Cosmic Balance, which appears to right great inequalities or going-awry in the magical balance of things."
Obviously, Midnight's ascension wasn't Ed's idea, and his development of the post-Godswar Mystra is one of many cases where he's worked to smooth over and make something positive out of things like Dale Henson's Netheril, Caladnei and the Shadow Weave.
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 13 Feb 2010 : 11:47:55
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quote:
Originally posted by harpercps
Thank you all.
I thought that Greenwood was the author of the Avatar series (the adventures). But regardless Midnight's alignment in those was very LN.
Then in FR adventures her alignment changes to NG?
Is that the right timeline? Was there any reason for the change besides the whole 2nd edition everyone is good thing?
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
I think it partly indicates the difficulty of fitting Mystra into a D&D alignment. The LNity of the previous Mystra was also much unlike that of a mortal, and less central than the alignment of a morally oriented god like Tymora or Bane. Compare this in the Cyclopedia:- "The goddess of magic is a manifestation of the Cosmic Balance, which appears to right great inequalities or going-awry in the magical balance of things."
Obviously, Midnight's ascension wasn't Ed's idea, and his development of the post-Godswar Mystra is one of many cases where he's worked to smooth over and make something positive out of things like Dale Henson's Netheril, Caladnei and the Shadow Weave.
Ed did write the modules, but from what I remmember having heard the modules were heavily changed to fit the plot and story of the novels. I am not even sure if the characters are Ed's or if they were created by the novel writers? That's interesting actually, does anyone know if Ed had a plan for pre-created characters for the series? |
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harpercps
Acolyte
5 Posts |
Posted - 08 Mar 2010 : 23:28:46
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The adventures were a blast to run. I think they actually took a few years in game time and rl time to run. There were so many side quests and lore to explore.
I wonder if Greenwood ever planed on killing off mystra.
Anyway thank you all.
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 08 Mar 2010 : 23:58:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Jorkens
That's interesting actually, does anyone know if Ed had a plan for pre-created characters for the series?
This might be one for Ed, I think. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 09 Mar 2010 : 00:01:56
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quote:
Originally posted by harpercps
I wonder if Greenwood ever planed on killing off mystra.
You mean altogether? Because I doubt it. Ed's "Shadow of the Avatar" trilogy [as well as other sources] make it clear that Mystra can't be permanently destroyed without the death of her Chosen and all others in whom her essence is placed.
At least in terms of pre-4e Realmslore.
Mystra is Ed's wondrous, lovingly and beautifully wrought, exquisitely various and gameable metaphysics of magic and the philosophy, culture and ethics that surround it in Faerūn -- which we've seen in glimpses and inferences, shadows and echoes, but which philosophically unifies Realmslore and provides its metaphysical, moral and thematic web: a magical, enchanted, interconnected world given shared meaning by memory, love, and human and transhuman bonds. She is fundamentally essential to the setting. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4266 Posts |
Posted - 09 Mar 2010 : 03:06:22
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Sage's words make me think that the 4e Realms is simply "another Forgotten Realms" and not the "True Realms" at all...
I even thought that Cyric's mind had finally imploded and he "dreamed" that he killed Mystra...only to be imprisoned and unable to dominate the world the way he wanted to. Sort of his own psychic hell.
Yeah, its all just a mad and insane dream of Cyric's!  |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
Posted - 09 Mar 2010 : 05:12:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
Sage's words make me think that the 4e Realms is simply "another Forgotten Realms" and not the "True Realms" at all...
I even thought that Cyric's mind had finally imploded and he "dreamed" that he killed Mystra...only to be imprisoned and unable to dominate the world the way he wanted to. Sort of his own psychic hell.
Yeah, its all just a mad and insane dream of Cyric's!
 Ooh! I like that! And because Cyric is a greater power, his dreams took on a life of their own, forming an offshoot of the main temporal stream in which things are the way they are described in the new books... but in the "real" timeline, Cyric is imprisoned, (obviously) insane again, and the Realms are intact... no Abeirant conjunction, no Spellplague, and no divine archdevil. This makes much more sense to me. 
Back on topic... in my Realms, the Spellplague did happen, but Mystra's still around and now CN in alignment; look for more wild magic zones in the Realms as a result of the Spellplague, but nothing so bizarre as the elemental motes... way too Eberronic for me, but that's my preference. Others' choices may vary. As Ed said way back in 1987, take the Realms and make them your own. I've cited that commandment way too many times in these scrolls, so I'll shut up now.  |
Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
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Old School FR- Midnight's Algniment Change?
