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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
 Posted - 01 May 2010 : 17:22:50
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Sigh. Ed's still working on that, George. Really.
Alystra, for more on Mystra's servitors, see SECRETS OF THE MAGISTER.
sfdragon, re. your three questions: I'm sure Ed has no idea why the Unicorn Run was left off the map, or when/if the LeShay are going to get 4e treatment. Those are questions better posed to Wizards of the Coast (Ed's never been an employee at TSR or WotC, and has no say over those sort of purely publishing decisions).
Menelvagor, there's nothing that disturbs Ed (or me, for that matter) about the topic you raised regarding El's relationship with Storm and Alassra. These sorts of controversies and problems (if they grow into that) arise when readers/gamers apply real-world contemporary moral codes and viewpoints to the Realms. (For example, Riverwind in the Waterdeep's army thread seeing Waterdhavian authorities bursting into a citizen's home as an invasion of privacy or over the legal line or something of the sort. Quite so, in the modern real-world United States. Not so at all, in Waterdeep in the Realms.)
There was nothing against Waterdhavian law in Mirt marrying his ward, once she was an adult (and as it happens, SHE seduced him and decided she wanted to spend her life with him and no other partner).
In the case of El and the Seven, he was not their father, but was a "courtesy uncle" who raised some of them (at Mystra's command) when they were toddlers to teens. They were Chosen, and all VERY independent . . . and literally centuries later, after almost all the people they knew when they were young are long dead, and kingdoms have risen and fallen (including places they ruled and they determined or influenced or altered the laws of), their friendships and working relationships with El (as fellow Chosen) briefly become romantic.
They are all human, and desperately trying to remain so, they are all less than sane, and they are all LONELY. Yes, they have Mystra and each other, but they lose everyone else to the cold hand of time . . . so they seek refuge in each other.
It's hardly surprising that they end up having affairs (and in a few instances, such as Khelben and Laeral, formally marrying each other).
I find it surprising that rather than just accepting that this is what these fictional characters have done or are doing, so many gamers try to judge them according to modern real-world mores.
The Realms is a medieval-cum-Renaissance FANTASY world, in which magic works, intelligent dragons and elves and dwarves interact with humans on a daily basis, gods can be talked to directly (and those multiple deities issue multiple, often-conflicting decrees and codes) . . . and, yes, people make love to each other. Sometimes one guy with women who are sisters. [sarcasm on] Gosh!
love to all,
THO
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Menelvagor
Senior Scribe
Israel
352 Posts |
Posted - 01 May 2010 : 18:51:37
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Indeed, I completely agree. But are these Ed's words, or your interpretation of his views, along with your own? Not that I don't greatly appreciate your views (or my view of you) or interpretations (especially to some of my vaguely worded offers), but I'm wondering whether I can relay this to others as Ed's take, or should wait for more.
EDIT: also, brought on by a thread I just read: Will we see or hear about that awesome 'raw wizardly casting power stronger than Larloch', The Srinshee and how the Spellplague affected her in Elminster Must Die or any planned/forthcoming books/lore? |
"Shall mortal man be more just than God? shall a man be more pure than his maker?
Behold, he put no trust in his servants; and his angels he charged with folly.
How much less them that dwell in houses of clay, whose foundation in the dust, are crushed before the moth?" - Eliphaz the Temanite, Job IV, 17-19.
"Yea, though he live a thousand years twice, yet hath he seen no good: do not all go to one place?" - Ecclesiastes VI, 6.
"There are no stupid questions – just a bunch of inquisitive idiots."
"Let's not call it 'hijacking'. Let's call it 'Thread Drift'." |
Edited by - Menelvagor on 01 May 2010 19:07:00 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 01 May 2010 : 19:10:59
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quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
They are all human, and desperately trying to remain so, they are all less than sane, and they are all LONELY. Yes, they have Mystra and each other, but they lose everyone else to the cold hand of time . . . so they seek refuge in each other.
It brings to mind the relationship between Crowley and Aziraphale, in Terry Pratchett and Neil Gaiman's Good Omens. Crowley was a demon, and Aziraphale was an angel... But they'd both been on Earth since the time of Adam and Eve, and even though they were technically enemies, they were also the only consistent contacts thru 6000 years -- so they were almost friends, because they were so familiar with each other. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 01 May 2010 : 20:18:33
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Hi again, all.
Menelvagor, this from Ed, just received (I forwarded him this page of the thread earlier today):
Hi. Menelvagor, THO in her answer to you paraphrased my words (written to TSR designers in the past and WotC staffers more recently) very closely, so you can, yes, take her reply to be my views on this, too.
And regarding the Srinshee: I'd love to answer you, but what you ask about is very much NDA'd, right now. Sorry.
As a general rule, answering just about any clear and specific question about the contents of future Realms novels is going to be a no-no, except when asked of Wizards staff people.
So saith Ed. Who will be sending me more Realmslore replies when he can, he promises.
love to all,
THO |
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Joran Nobleheart
Senior Scribe
USA
495 Posts |
Posted - 01 May 2010 : 20:42:56
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quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
Hi again, all.
Joran Nobleheart, this just arrived, from Ed:
Yes, the order does have a modest chapterhouse in Waterdeep. It's a small but impressive three-floors-above-the-street, one-cellar-below stone building (with stout stone pillars supporting a "porch roof" over the double-doors entrance) in North Ward.
Specifically, it's located on the east side of Whaelgond Way, two doors south of the Jardeth noble family villa.
So saith Ed. Creator of Waterdeep, and (still) most of the people and places in it.
love to all,
THO
Oh, thank you so very much! I suppose it would be a small thing for Joran and his daughter to have their lady wizard friend teleport them to Waterdeep for their meetings, right?  Now I have a place for them to go in my campaigns when the order calls. It'll be nice too, since he tends to visit Waterdeep quite a bit to visit the orphanages and read to them as well as deliver toys that he carves for the children there, and making notes on requests from the children there on others that they'd like. |
Paladinic Ethos
Saint Joran Nobleheart |
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Brace Cormaeril
Learned Scribe
294 Posts |
Posted - 01 May 2010 : 21:24:59
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Hi, I have a question for Mr. Greenwood. Have any strange sexual couplings or absurd mixing of genetic material occurred in dead magic zones prior to the Time of Troubles?
Thanks a lot for your time and consideration! |
The Silver Fire's Blade: A Novella in Nine Parts, Available Soon, in the Adventuring Forum!
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 02 May 2010 : 01:33:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
They are all human, and desperately trying to remain so, they are all less than sane, and they are all LONELY. Yes, they have Mystra and each other, but they lose everyone else to the cold hand of time . . . so they seek refuge in each other.
It brings to mind the relationship between Crowley and Aziraphale, in Terry Pratchett and Neil Gaiman's Good Omens. Crowley was a demon, and Aziraphale was an angel... But they'd both been on Earth since the time of Adam and Eve, and even though they were technically enemies, they were also the only consistent contacts thru 6000 years -- so they were almost friends, because they were so familiar with each other.
Oh, yeah. I remember that. And it's a good excuse to read the book once again.  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 02 May 2010 : 17:43:39
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Hi again, all. I bring you once more the words of Ed of the Greenwood, this time in response to Brace Cormaeril: "Hi, I have a question for Mr. Greenwood. Have any strange sexual couplings or absurd mixing of genetic material occurred in dead magic zones prior to the Time of Troubles?"
Ed replies:
Yes.
Oh, : } you'd like specifics? All right. Let me just say this: certain mages (and priests, too) covertly used dead magic zones deliberately for various spellcasting and beast/monster-breeding purposes. So unusual couplings did indeed occur in dead magic zones. There are also lore instances of persons who know or suspect they are being magically traced or watched, having romantic liaisons in dead-magic zones free of spying or repercussions (often with members of families or nationalities or races that are sworn foes; the Romeo & Juliet situation).
So saith Ed. Being as mysterious and lore-enriching as ever.
love,
THO |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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Penknight
Senior Scribe
USA
538 Posts |
Posted - 02 May 2010 : 22:30:26
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Is there any chance we could learn a little bit more about House Ealoeth, please? My fey'ri PC would love to know a little bit more about his House and some of its members.  I'd dearly love to know more bout what the House did inside of Myth Drannor before its fall, and if any fey'ri members of the House were present inside the city. Also, something just came to me... did any fey'ri fight to protect the city during the fall, or even fight in the Army of Darkness? Thank you! |
Telethian Phoenix
Pathfinder Reference Document |
Edited by - Penknight on 02 May 2010 22:41:44 |
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 03 May 2010 : 02:32:59
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Hi again, all.
Verghityax, back on page 13 of this thread, you asked for details of heraldry of the Realms, in particular the "crests" of independent cities. Ed gave you some answers, and has just added some more:
A long-ago merchant fleet banner of Tantras was a steel-gray four-bar-by-four-bar portcullis (points at bottom ends of all vertical bars) on a scarlet field. This was a mast-top pennant. The fleet that popularized it is long gone, but the same device has recently been adopted by other ships based in Tantras, that have various owners. So it's becoming an unofficial but widely recognized recognition symbol for Tantran ownership.
So saith Ed. Adding tidbits of Realmslore whenever he can.
love,
THO |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 03 May 2010 : 04:19:26
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Hmmmm.... someone must be asleep... several someones me thinks...
Strange couplings in DEAD magic zones? 
And here I thought WILD magic zones would be just the place for such trysts
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"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3287 Posts |
Posted - 03 May 2010 : 07:21:22
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"Gettin Jiggy with it"... |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
Posted - 03 May 2010 : 08:07:45
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quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
Hi again, all.
<snip>
And regarding the Srinshee: I'd love to answer you, but what you ask about is very much NDA'd, right now. Sorry.
As a general rule, answering just about any clear and specific question about the contents of future Realms novels is going to be a no-no, except when asked of Wizards staff people.
So saith Ed. Who will be sending me more Realmslore replies when he can, he promises.
love to all,
THO
But vague and general questions on such matters are still okay, yes?  I'm just curious (after several recent posts elsewhere in the 'Keep regarding her) as to whether or not we will be learning more about the Srinshee in soon-to-be-released novels or other Realmslore... |
Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
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Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
Posted - 03 May 2010 : 08:27:28
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
<chop>
The Cormyr Lineage is a case in point. It's a historical document and would solidify the history of that kingdom. It would also hamstring author/game designers who a) can't be bothered to research before writing or b) are loathe to give up their "awesome idea" because the realmslore says otherwise: "What do you mean, I can't build my novel premise on the assertion that King Draxius was a lich?"
There's devil in the detail, kids. There always is.
-- George Krashos
I hope you (Ed, THO, and the moderators in particular) will forgive my bluntness on this point (and I'm sure that Ed and other writers, if not all of them, will agree with me on this), but if you don't like research, you shouldn't be writing. Even if it is fiction; this is what a shared world is all about, imho. (I would have loved to attend that shared-world discussion mentioned in this scroll a few pages back, and not just for the chance to meet Ed.) If you have a specific character concept in mind that doesn't fit established characters in the setting, then create a new character! If that new character can't have the title you want him/her to have as a result of an established character already holding said title (like King of Cormyr, to pick one entirely not randomly), then find a different title that isn't already claimed.
Having the lore (specifically the Cormyr Lineage, in this case) published does not prevent writers from creating new characters (like additional bastards of Azoun IV, to pick an obvious example), but it does allow readers of that lore to inject more life and realism into their campaigns, thereby having more fun with them, and gaming in the Realms is all about having fun, right? The fact that writers essentially have a free hand in changing unpublished lore doesn't sit right with me in any case, but we're back to the intricacies of managing a shared world again. Now that I've come full-circle with this post, it seems like a good place to stop, before I start to rant.
Ed: Feel free to use this argument (assuming that you haven't thought of it already) when presenting your case to the appropriate authorities. |
Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
Edited by - Jakk on 03 May 2010 08:29:39 |
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gomez
Learned Scribe
Netherlands
254 Posts |
Posted - 03 May 2010 : 10:00:43
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quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
I find it surprising that rather than just accepting that this is what these fictional characters have done or are doing, so many gamers try to judge them according to modern real-world mores.
Well, that's likely since most people live and follow those mores, and thus expect others to do so too... It's in people's nature.
Note that some of these mores also can be found in novels. For instance, in quite a few novels, women have to struggle to be accepted as adventurers (or even as capable people). They often eventually manage to prove themselves, but oddly, men hardly ever seem to have a need to do so. There are not a lot of novels where women who pick up a sword do not get odd looks. Even Ed occasionally depicts swordwomen as if they are an amazing act. At least, people seem to often underestimate a fighter if it is a woman.
Islif is among the exceptions, but even she was originally suspected by her friends to have slept herself into sword studies (in Swords of Eveningstar, before she put them right), which implies that women being taught swordfighting is a bit of an anomaly.
Btw, is Spellfire the 'sequel' to the Sword Never Sleeps? (I haven't managed to find that novel yet, it sold out)
Gomez |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 03 May 2010 : 10:09:20
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I never felt it was a problem for women to become fighters or such in the Realms. There are of course always some looks I would think, but the novels and gaming products generally show little signs of this. The Harpers series have many female characters, and mostly they seem to have little problem being taken seriously. A couple of them are nervous about being a Harper, but not of being warriors.
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Elfinblade
Senior Scribe
Norway
377 Posts |
Posted - 03 May 2010 : 10:23:05
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quote:
Btw, is Spellfire the 'sequel' to the Sword Never Sleeps? (I haven't managed to find that novel yet, it sold out)
Spellfire is the first book in a trilogy called Shandril's Saga. It certainly has some tie-ins, but is otherwise not connected to the Sword Never Sleeps, which is the third book in The Knights of Myth Drannor trilogy. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 03 May 2010 : 11:15:24
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quote:
Originally posted by gomez
Btw, is Spellfire the 'sequel' to the Sword Never Sleeps? (I haven't managed to find that novel yet, it sold out)
Spellfire was one of the very first published Realms novels. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3287 Posts |
Posted - 03 May 2010 : 11:46:41
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by gomez
Btw, is Spellfire the 'sequel' to the Sword Never Sleeps? (I haven't managed to find that novel yet, it sold out)
Spellfire was one of the very first published Realms novels.
And It's a very good novel. |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 03 May 2010 : 11:47:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by gomez
Btw, is Spellfire the 'sequel' to the Sword Never Sleeps? (I haven't managed to find that novel yet, it sold out)
Spellfire was one of the very first published Realms novels.
Indeed.
Gomez, you might want to pay a visit to the FR novel section on the main site. It has all the details about the various Realms novels -- including which series they belong to, as well as publishing dates. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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gomez
Learned Scribe
Netherlands
254 Posts |
Posted - 03 May 2010 : 12:24:37
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What I meant was: The Sword Never Sleeps ends with the Knights (finally) arriving in Shadowdale.
Is it known what happened then? Is this the moment that Spellfire starts off?
Or are there more events than yet need chronicling?
Gomez |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3287 Posts |
Posted - 03 May 2010 : 12:32:48
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| More events happen. |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 03 May 2010 : 12:42:27
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quote:
Originally posted by gomez
What I meant was: The Sword Never Sleeps ends with the Knights (finally) arriving in Shadowdale.
Is it known what happened then? Is this the moment that Spellfire starts off?
Or are there more events than yet need chronicling?
Gomez
I am unsure about what year Sword ended, but there are plenty of events that were never detailed. Spellfire takes place a relatively short time before the Time of Troubles if I remember correctly.The old Hall of Heroes is a great source (far superior to the two later 2nd edition books detailing Realmsian characters)for the Knights, although only hints and small comments concerning their adventures are given. |
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2449 Posts |
Posted - 03 May 2010 : 13:24:29
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Or you could always ply THO with a lot of wine and ask her to illuminate...
If nothing else, it'll sure be entertaining! |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3287 Posts |
Posted - 03 May 2010 : 13:50:18
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| Didn't Swords take place in 1348DR? |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
Edited by - Brimstone on 03 May 2010 13:50:51 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
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Thauramarth
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
729 Posts |
Posted - 03 May 2010 : 16:16:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Jorkens
I am unsure about what year Sword ended, but there are plenty of events that were never detailed. Spellfire takes place a relatively short time before the Time of Troubles if I remember correctly.The old Hall of Heroes is a great source (far superior to the two later 2nd edition books detailing Realmsian characters)for the Knights, although only hints and small comments concerning their adventures are given.
According to the Karen Wynn Fonstad Atlas of the Forgotten Realms, as well as the usual sources Spellfire is set in 1357 DR. |
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 03 May 2010 : 16:46:11
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That's correct, and in the years between the end of THE SWORD NEVER SLEEPS and the beginning of SPELLFIRE, the Knights arrived at the Old Skull Inn, chatted with the staff, got jumped by Zhent undercover agents (who'd been in the taproom) that night in their rooms, survived, claimed the Twisted Tower (which involved fighting Zhents and drow through it, and cleansing it, then delving into the cellars and down into the drow-infested caverns and tunnels connected to the cellars), and tried to settle down to ruling Shadowdale. Which meant winning over a frightened, Zhent-harrassed, surly populace, fighting off three Zhent armed forays from Voonlar (and then carrying the fight to the Zhents in Voonlar), establishing laws and local constables and a militia, doing a census (results of which are in the original "Old Grey Box" Realms boxed set), uncovering a were-creature that was murdering villagers as part of that census, then having all sorts of adventures (including fighting drow at Castle Grimstead, battling local Zhent agents like Erek the Alchemist [who was using both poison and bombs against Harpers and anyone else hampering Zhent plots], going up against The Temple In The Sky after fighting the giants in the nearby Tower, and finally deciding that Doust should rule as Lord while the rest of the Knights went adventuring, both to curb growing demon and devil troubles emanating from Myth Drannor [where we finally succeeded in closing a gate to the "darker planes" that was letting devils flood into the Realms], and to act as Shadowdale's envoys throughout the Dales. The attempt was to cooperate with Mistledale (sucessful) and other dales (less successful) in fighting off the Zhents. The Zhents were busy (in Yulash and other places) fighting off Hillsfar's growing ambitions, and the Dales were also being pressured by Sembia; interests there were "buying up and moving in" all over the Dales, conquering without armed invasion...and the Knights ended up caught in the middle trying to finesse all of these competing interests.
Then came SPELLFIRE . . . 
love to all,
THO |
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Baleful Avatar
Learned Scribe
Canada
161 Posts |
Posted - 03 May 2010 : 17:13:28
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Holy Tempus and Tymora, that's about a dozen novels you've just covered!
Oh, wait . . .
This is what Ed would have written about if they'd let him write novels for the first decade of the Realms, between SPELLFIRE and CROWN OF FIRE, when it was "all Drizzt, all the time" instead...isn't it? |
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Questions for Ed Greenwood (2010)
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