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Reefy
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
892 Posts |
 Posted - 16 Aug 2004 : 02:11:51
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Building on what Wooly said, how have you used any of the Chosen in your campaigns, if you have at all?
In mine, my PCs have encountered Qilué briefly a couple of times, including retrieving an item from her from a tomb warded against drow. They also didn't know it was her until recently. They have also met Alustriel at a ball at the palace in Silverymoon, but considering the campaign is based in the Marches, it's not that surprising as I would imagine Alustriel knows or has at least met a large number of Silverymoon's residents. |
Life is either daring adventure or nothing. |
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Arnwyn
Acolyte
35 Posts |
Posted - 19 Aug 2004 : 02:00:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Reefy
Building on what Wooly said, how have you used any of the Chosen in your campaigns, if you have at all?
I have used Storm Silverhand a while ago, when the PCs accidentally lost an artifact to the Zhentarim when near Shadowdale. They had to find her, explain their plight, and hope to get her to help them out in retrieving the item...
In any case, only Chosen of Mystra exist in my campaign. "Chosen" of other deities is entirely nonsensical. |
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Nephilim
Acolyte
United Kingdom
33 Posts |
Posted - 23 Oct 2004 : 11:41:11
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Sourcemaster2 said
" I could see the Simbul dying, after her battles to save El. Wasn't there some mention of a price for doing so?"
If I remember correctly, The Simbul is currently giving sanctuary to one of the Manshoon clones. It has been suggested that the cause of the clones all awakening en mass is a curse from Mystra. If this is the case and if The Simbul is hiding a Manshoon, Mystra might not be too happy with her...
I beleive there is also a Manshoon holed up in Candlekeep? As a centre of worship for Mystra, might that not be a little dangerous?
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Edited by - Nephilim on 23 Oct 2004 11:42:44 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 23 Oct 2004 : 15:07:42
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Well, the first point is that those two Manshoons you mentioned are, according to the new, 3E stuff, no longer around -- there's only three Manshoons left, officially. I disagree with this one, myself.
Second, I'm not so sure this was a curse from Mystra. After all, she allowed the development of the spell in the first place... If she didn't like it, she'd not have allowed Manshoon to create that kind of spell.
Remember, Mystra is very much interested in the development of new spells, and she also wants to see the use of magic expanded.
If Mystra was at all involved in this one (I'm not convinced she is; it could have been a weird magical side-effect from the battle between Fzoul, Orgauth, and Manshoon), then she intended it as a warning to Manshoon. It would have been a kind of "hey, look, I'm not keen on how you've been behaving of late, so this is your official 'straighten up and fly right!' message!"
If it was a curse from Mystra, she'd've done something more serious than just let all the clones wake up. She'd've not allowed them to wake up, or all of them would have waken up with no magical ability, or they'd've waken up with a strange wasting illness, or something like that. Allowing them all to wake up and happily run around destroying each other any anyone or anything around? Nay, that's a waste of magic and could be considered a misuse, as well.
By no means would The Simbul have to worry about getting slapped down for going against Mystra's wishes. Mystra and her Chosen have a close relationship -- in Elminster's Daughter, Mystra personally showed up to chat with El and Alassra. So if Mystra was tweaked at the Simbul, she'd not start dropping meteor swarms on Aglarond, she'd simply say "Hey, Alassra, I don't like this bum, show him the door."
Ditto for Candlekeep. They've a lot of arcane knowledge there, and if Mystra did something to the place, she'd destroy that knowledge -- something she'd never willingly do. She'd also tweak off Oghma, and that's something else she'd never do. |
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DDH_101
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1272 Posts |
Posted - 23 Oct 2004 : 17:44:03
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| Nephilim, the curse mentioned was a rumour spreaded by priests of Mystra. There's no real fact to it and the Goddess herself never actually said it was a curse. This was mentioned in Cloak and Dagger. |
"Trust in the shadows, for the bright way makes you an easy target." -Mask |
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Nephilim
Acolyte
United Kingdom
33 Posts |
Posted - 23 Oct 2004 : 18:33:22
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Ok Woolly Rupert, you made some good points that I hadn't considered. I was basing my theory around the mention of the curse in Cloak and Dagger, perhaps I should have done a little more digging.
Can you clarify something for me though? you said
quote:
Mystra and her Chosen have a close relationship
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So how does Sammaster fit in here? I have to admit that I don't know a great deal about Sammaster only that he was a Chosen of Mystra who when rogue and started the Cult of the Dragon. At what point did Mystra say enough is enough and revoke his Chosen status?
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DDH_101
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1272 Posts |
Posted - 23 Oct 2004 : 21:26:18
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Sammaster was a bit different. At first when Mystra made him a Chosen, he thought he was REALLY special and that the Goddess of Magic must be in love with him. Then when he finds out the truth later, Sammaster gets his heart broken and started off the path to "crazy land".
He got his Chosen status taken when he tried to kill Alustriel. Only the arrival of Khelben Blackstaff and Laeral saved her life and the three of them destroyed Sammaster. Afterwards, it was Azuth who appeared and took his Chosen status away.
You can find out more in the 2e Cult of teh Dragon manual which you can download at WotC. Also, the new Richard Lee Byers book, The Rage, also features Sammaster. |
"Trust in the shadows, for the bright way makes you an easy target." -Mask |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 23 Oct 2004 : 22:43:51
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quote:
Originally posted by DDH_101
Sammaster was a bit different. At first when Mystra made him a Chosen, he thought he was REALLY special and that the Goddess of Magic must be in love with him. Then when he finds out the truth later, Sammaster gets his heart broken and started off the path to "crazy land".
He got his Chosen status taken when he tried to kill Alustriel. Only the arrival of Khelben Blackstaff and Laeral saved her life and the three of them destroyed Sammaster. Afterwards, it was Azuth who appeared and took his Chosen status away.
You can find out more in the 2e Cult of teh Dragon manual which you can download at WotC. Also, the new Richard Lee Byers book, The Rage, also features Sammaster.
Sammaster also battled an avatar of Lathander's. :) That can be found in Volo's Guide to All Thing's Magical. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
Edited by - Kuje on 23 Oct 2004 22:44:55 |
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Shadovar
Senior Scribe
785 Posts |
Posted - 04 Apr 2005 : 13:34:57
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| I don't think it was azuth who removed Sammaster Chosen Status, if Mystra imbued him to be a chosen, only she can remove his status as a chosen. Anyway, Sammaster got a list of crimes that resulted in his Chosen status removed.One noteworthy crime is dabbling in necromancy and because Sammaster was of high calibre(which was one of the main reasons Mystra chose him) in magic learning, he mastered necromancy very well. Hence even becoming a lich after death, liches are very difficult ot kill, destroy their phylactery will kill them and stop them from being reborn as a lich again as their life essence is stored there. |
We have fostered trust, recruited loyalty, and gathered the faithful. We have trained thousands. Our legions can cover the land, fill the sky and travel through the darkness. We can hunt any and all that would deny our heritage. Now is our time, now is the time of the Dark Reign(Rain) of the Empire of Shadows.
- High Prince Telemont Tanthul, Lord Shadow
In a speech given to the citizens of Shade Enclave
At the celebration of the Shinantra Battle victory when he revealed that he was THE Lord Shadow of legend. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 04 Apr 2005 : 17:35:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Shadovar
I don't think it was azuth who removed Sammaster Chosen Status, if Mystra imbued him to be a chosen, only she can remove his status as a chosen. Anyway, Sammaster got a list of crimes that resulted in his Chosen status removed.One noteworthy crime is dabbling in necromancy and because Sammaster was of high calibre(which was one of the main reasons Mystra chose him) in magic learning, he mastered necromancy very well. Hence even becoming a lich after death, liches are very difficult ot kill, destroy their phylactery will kill them and stop them from being reborn as a lich again as their life essence is stored there.
I don't have the quote handy, but yes, Azuth did remove Mystra's essence from Sammaster, doing so with her consent. Mystra made the decision, but Azuth enforced it. This comes directly from Ed.
I don't recall the reasoning, but Mystra can't directly reclaim her essence from a Chosen, as I recall. I'll have to find that quote from Ed when I get home. |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 04 Apr 2005 : 17:50:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Shadovar
I don't think it was azuth who removed Sammaster Chosen Status, if Mystra imbued him to be a chosen, only she can remove his status as a chosen. Anyway, Sammaster got a list of crimes that resulted in his Chosen status removed.One noteworthy crime is dabbling in necromancy and because Sammaster was of high calibre(which was one of the main reasons Mystra chose him) in magic learning, he mastered necromancy very well. Hence even becoming a lich after death, liches are very difficult ot kill, destroy their phylactery will kill them and stop them from being reborn as a lich again as their life essence is stored there.
I don't have the quote handy, but yes, Azuth did remove Mystra's essence from Sammaster, doing so with her consent. Mystra made the decision, but Azuth enforced it. This comes directly from Ed.
I don't recall the reasoning, but Mystra can't directly reclaim her essence from a Chosen, as I recall. I'll have to find that quote from Ed when I get home.
Page 16 of Cult of the Dragon says so as well. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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khorne
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1073 Posts |
Posted - 04 Apr 2005 : 19:11:10
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| Finally I know what was meant by "the Manshoon wars". But when did Manshoons clones wake up? And what was this battle between Fzoul, Manshoon and Orgauth? Also, who is Orgauth? |
If I were a ranger, I would pick NDA for my favorite enemy |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 04 Apr 2005 : 23:29:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Shadovar
I don't think it was azuth who removed Sammaster Chosen Status, if Mystra imbued him to be a chosen, only she can remove his status as a chosen. Anyway, Sammaster got a list of crimes that resulted in his Chosen status removed.One noteworthy crime is dabbling in necromancy and because Sammaster was of high calibre(which was one of the main reasons Mystra chose him) in magic learning, he mastered necromancy very well. Hence even becoming a lich after death, liches are very difficult ot kill, destroy their phylactery will kill them and stop them from being reborn as a lich again as their life essence is stored there.
I don't have the quote handy, but yes, Azuth did remove Mystra's essence from Sammaster, doing so with her consent. Mystra made the decision, but Azuth enforced it. This comes directly from Ed.
I don't recall the reasoning, but Mystra can't directly reclaim her essence from a Chosen, as I recall. I'll have to find that quote from Ed when I get home.
Here's the quotes I was looking for:
quote:
Note that Mystra’s Chosen have a degree of independence, and CAN choose to suicide. She can bring them back, of course, but not with the powers they held before; they’ll be mere puppets, with mere echoes of their former powers. Chosen of Mystra who choose to defy her but not suicide CAN continue to exist; she can deny them her guidance and aid, and sever them from the company of their fellow Chosen, but not slay them outright, unless she wants to diminish her own divine power permanently. She can, of course, send or manipulate other creatures into slaying them, in which case the divine power they hold will find its gradual way back to her and not be lost to her.
This brings up fascinating character possibilities: the being ‘cursed’ never to die, who desperately wants to and tries to, only to be brought back again and again. Elric and Jack of Shadows (not to mention Terry Pratchett’s Death, as depicted in certain of the Discworld novels) are examples of what sort of being such ‘trapped’ or ‘doomed to repeat’ characters might become, and the subject is something I intend to explore in future projects, both inside and outside the Realms.
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Ed’s reply does indeed “imply that once a being becomes a Chosen, Mystra can't reclaim from that person her own essence.” You point out that “that's exactly what is described as having happened to Sammaster: thru Azuth, Mystra's essence was removed from Sammaster.”
EXACTLY. Sammaster’s silver fire was taken through the actions of Azuth, another deity.
Mystra can forcibly wrest her divine essence (the silver fire) directly from a mortal, but in doing so loses it forever, weakening herself (it does not ‘find its way back to her’ in the normal way, but is GONE). So she won’t do it.
That doesn’t stop Azuth, working with her, from doing it (she’d probably fight any other deity trying it on a mortal located on Toril, and win by using the Weave against them).
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 04 Apr 2005 : 23:38:24
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quote:
Originally posted by khorne
Finally I know what was meant by "the Manshoon wars". But when did Manshoons clones wake up? And what was this battle between Fzoul, Manshoon and Orgauth? Also, who is Orgauth?
Lord Orgauth was originally a minor noble of Zhentil Keep. He was slain and replaced by a pit fiend. The two met with Sememmon and Manshoon in the Citadel of the Raven on Ches 6, 1370. Manshoon revealed that Orgauth was from out of town, and Orgauth and Fzoul launched a surprise attack against Manshoon, killing him. Sememmon tried to help, but was nearly killed. He remembered that he'd left the oven on, and fled back to Darkhold.
And then, at midnight, four Manshoons dropped by to say "Hi!" to Fzoul and Orgauth. From there, things went downhill.
All this info is drawn from Cloak & Dagger, a wonderful 2E resource, and one of the last ones we saw before 3E was inflicted on us. |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 05 Apr 2005 : 01:46:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
All this info is drawn from Cloak & Dagger, a wonderful 2E resource, and one of the last ones we saw before 3E was inflicted on us.
 You make it sound like an outbreak of a virus. |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 05 Apr 2005 : 02:58:24
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quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
All this info is drawn from Cloak & Dagger, a wonderful 2E resource, and one of the last ones we saw before 3E was inflicted on us.
You make it sound like an outbreak of a virus.
Apt, very apt. :) But only with some of the early sourcebooks. :) WOTC has started to redeem themselves in my eyes in the last few sourcebooks but they got a lot of work to do because of the 3.0 ones. And before someone complains or flames me, this is my opinion. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 05 Apr 2005 : 03:24:12
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quote:
Originally posted by kuje31
Apt, very apt. :) But only with some of the early sourcebooks. :) WOTC has started to redeem themselves in my eyes in the last few sourcebooks but they got a lot of work to do because of the 3.0 ones. And before someone complains or flames me, this is my opinion.
Sad when you have to place a qualifier like that on your post.  But, I understand the reason for doing so. |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 05 Apr 2005 : 03:32:40
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quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
Sad when you have to place a qualifier like that on your post. But, I understand the reason for doing so.
It's because I've been on the boards that should not be named to long and have had tooooooooo many arguements. :) |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 05 Apr 2005 : 03:48:42
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quote:
Originally posted by kuje31
quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
Sad when you have to place a qualifier like that on your post. But, I understand the reason for doing so.
It's because I've been on the boards that should not be named to long and have had tooooooooo many arguements. :)
On those boards, they need to set aside a special section just for people to argue.  
Of course, if all the "Orcus rules!" and "I want a Drizzit movie!" people went to the argument section, the other sections would be abandoned. |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 05 Apr 2005 : 04:19:08
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by kuje31
quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
Sad when you have to place a qualifier like that on your post. But, I understand the reason for doing so.
It's because I've been on the boards that should not be named to long and have had tooooooooo many arguements. :)
On those boards, they need to set aside a special section just for people to argue.
Of course, if all the "Orcus rules!" and "I want a Drizzit movie!" people went to the argument section, the other sections would be abandoned.
And the few that have to argue back about the planar changes. Yes, yes. You enjoy them, fine. Now leave us alone and allow us to voice that we dont. :) Or the few that are around now, who jump down your throat when you say one comment that might be "critical" against WOTC. Like "I didn't like that change." Well tough WOTC changed it and you have no right to say you don't like it and if you keep that up I will continue to harass you!
Bitter? Me. Nah! :) |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 05 Apr 2005 : 04:46:03
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quote:
Originally posted by kuje31
It's because I've been on the boards that should not be named to long and have had tooooooooo many arguements. :)
You know what's sad? Upon first reading your post I said to myself, "Why did he put that?"
One second later, "OH yeah, he visits the WOTC boards still." Poor dear. I imagine it's like being in a combat zone with the large amount of posters wishing to talk non-stop about their good aligned dark elf who wields a +5 vorpal moonblade scimitar of death and is about to marry one of the seven sisters.
SB who tied that perfectly back onto topic with the mention of one of the seven sisters.  |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 05 Apr 2005 : 04:53:48
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quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
You know what's sad? Upon first reading your post I said to myself, "Why did he put that?"
One second later, "OH yeah, he visits the WOTC boards still." Poor dear. I imagine it's like being in a combat zone with the large amount of posters wishing to talk non-stop about their good aligned dark elf who wields a +5 vorpal moonblade scimitar of death and is about to marry one of the seven sisters.
SB who tied that perfectly back onto topic with the mention of one of the seven sisters.
HAHAH. :)
And to get back on topic so Big Al doesn't smack us with his big stick. What can we ask Ed about next that relates to the Seven? We know they have other children, what some of thier undergarments are, what they like to eat, what they like as entertainment. We should be able to come up with something more to ask! :) |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 05 Apr 2005 : 05:50:59
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quote:
Originally posted by kuje31
And to get back on topic so Big Al doesn't smack us with his big stick. What can we ask Ed about next that relates to the Seven? We know they have other children, what some of thier undergarments are, what they like to eat, what they like as entertainment. We should be able to come up with something more to ask! :)
Make him give us some brief information/tease about what he thinks the future holds for each of them. Make Wooly ask, THO likes him. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 05 Apr 2005 : 06:12:28
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quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
quote:
Originally posted by kuje31
And to get back on topic so Big Al doesn't smack us with his big stick. What can we ask Ed about next that relates to the Seven? We know they have other children, what some of thier undergarments are, what they like to eat, what they like as entertainment. We should be able to come up with something more to ask! :)
Make him give us some brief information/tease about what he thinks the future holds for each of them. Make Wooly ask, THO likes him.
I don't think there's anyone she dislikes.
I just happen to flirt back a bit more readily than most people here. |
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jun 2005 : 20:24:52
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Well said, Wooly.
SB (she purred), come here, close where we can cuddle, and I'll flirt with you. See this? And this? And these? Perhaps your hands are cold, and need a place to warm up...
Ahem. And so on, just as you prefer (or not). I'm often a very bad girl, and need appropriate chastisement. And yes, that's a hint.
love (to all, of course),
THO |
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Alaundo
Head Moderator
United Kingdom
5695 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jun 2005 : 22:44:23
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quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
Well said, Wooly.
SB (she purred), come here, close where we can cuddle, and I'll flirt with you. See this? And this? And these? Perhaps your hands are cold, and need a place to warm up...
Ahem. And so on, just as you prefer (or not). I'm often a very bad girl, and need appropriate chastisement. And yes, that's a hint.
love (to all, of course),
THO
 Hooded One!!! Thou art distracting the scribes! Now back to thy Realmslore researches! (after stepping into my office of course ) |
Alaundo
Candlekeep Forums Head Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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An Introduction to Candlekeep - by Ed Greenwood
The Candlekeep Compendium - Tomes of Realmslore penned by Scribes of Candlekeep
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jun 2005 : 01:27:04
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Ohhh, Alaundo. you’ve made me wait so LONG to hear that command!
The whip I’ve been carrying around is dusty - - see?
But (purrrrrrr) I’m sure you’ll quickly take care of that. I’ll just remove these unnecessary garments, go to my knees, and enter thy office the way I deserve to: crawling . . .
loooove,
THO
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
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Alaundo
Head Moderator
United Kingdom
5695 Posts |
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Chosen of Moradin
Master of Realmslore
Brazil
1120 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jun 2005 : 14:00:56
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Hey, Alaundo!
I´m selling a scroll of Silence, if it interest you! It´s very useful to some "dirty rogue works", if you understand me |
Dwarf, DM, husband, and proud of this! :P
twitter: @yuripeixoto
Facebook: yuri.peixoto |
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The power ot the chosen in their character discrip
... Looks like I'm late to the party again. I missed all the cute little distractions here in this part of the library...